Bethesda, are you paying attention here? You are awful.

zarnon_akoni · December 2018

I don't know how to escalate and have any effect so I'm doing the only accessible option - ranting in public and hoping its seen. Like any non-customer friendly business in today's world, that' really all you have anyway.

I put in a ticket today asking for clarification on the minimum requirements listed for a ESO on Mac. I'd like to buy a new Mac and would like to buy one that will address the god awful performance problems I've seen since you moved off OpenGL. I gave the specs of two options on the market today and asked to understanding if either would work.

The first response, from "Oscar" was good. The agent clearly did some research, coming back and saying the graphics card for one is just short and the other is fine. He then asked for more specific info on the CPU which required some research and I updated the ticket with the info as soon as I found it.

The response back is a really winner. "Molly" goes on to regurgitate the posted minimum requirements of the game, including the exact details I was asking for clarification on. Then, "Molly" goes to say and I quote, "I would also recommend not getting a MAC as Windows runs the game better and has less issues running the game."

WTF Bethesda? So now you are really are giving up on Mac users? You are advocating not playing the game on a Mac anymore. Just a few weeks ago we say you say you were committed to the Mac platform. So what is it?

And, by the way, whoever has developed your ticket triage and management process should be fired. One of the two agents went rogue or is BS'ing me and clearly the second wasn't paying any attention to the original question. You invest in these systems to improve customer service and you just make it worse. Awful.

zarnon_akoni · December 2018

To the loser who called me a liar in a private message but wasn't man enough to post here:

qbit · December 2018

Well played on the private message guy. You should report him for harassment and being a shill.

ZOS_Bill · December 2018

@zarnon_akoni

You should not need to move to Windows in order to continue playing ESO. We are looking into the response you've received from our support team.

As for your original question on choosing a new Mac that meets the ESO system requirements, please go ahead and post the details on each system you are looking into here or in a new thread. We can then let you know which Mac machines would meet the current requirements for ESO.

zarnon_akoni · December 2018

Thanks for the response. It would be nice if you said "You DO not need...." vs. "You SHOULD not need..." but hopefully that nuance wasn't intentional.

Basically we're talking about the top end 21.5" vs the bottom end 27" iMac currently on the market today. Your minimum requirement says a 27" inch late 2013. Well, in 5 years its reasonable to expect the 21.5" to catch up to the 27" to the point they might work just fine. And, well today the top end 21.5" and bottom end 27" appear very similar:

Top end 21.5":
3.4GHz quad-core Intel Core i5
8GB of 2400MHz DDR4 memory
1TB Fusion Drive
Radeon Pro 560 with 4GB of VRAM

Bottom end 27":
3.4GHz quad‑core Intel Core i5
8GB (two 4GB) of 2400MHz DDR4 memory;
1TB Fusion Drive
Radeon Pro 570 with 4GB of VRAM

The only published difference is the 27" has the next level up graphics card. I assume your engineering team will have any additional information published or not that would be needed.

zarnon_akoni · December 2018

I just got another response that was equally unhelpful. #sigh.

You guys know I'd love to subscribe to ESO+ but will never do so given this mess seems unsolvable.

qbit · December 2018

Just because it’s a Mac and cost thousands of dollars doesn’t mean it has good hardware under the hood. They look great on the outside but have subpar components in them for the amount of money they charge. Build a windows pc and get twice the performance at half the price.

Elsonso · December 2018

These almost look like the same machine, save for screen size and the graphics card specs for the "top end" are worse than the specs for the "bottom end"... ?

zarnon_akoni wrote: »

Top end 21.5":
3.4GHz quad-core Intel Core i5
8GB of 2400MHz DDR4 memory
1TB Fusion Drive
Radeon Pro 560 with 4GB of VRAM

Bottom end 27":
3.4GHz quad‑core Intel Core i5
8GB (two 4GB) of 2400MHz DDR4 memory;
1TB Fusion Drive
Radeon Pro 570 with 4GB of VRAM

qbit · December 2018

lordrichter wrote: »

These almost look like the same machine, save for screen size and the graphics card specs for the "top end" are worse than the specs for the "bottom end"... ?

zarnon_akoni wrote: »

Top end 21.5":
3.4GHz quad-core Intel Core i5
8GB of 2400MHz DDR4 memory
1TB Fusion Drive
Radeon Pro 560 with 4GB of VRAM

Bottom end 27":
3.4GHz quad‑core Intel Core i5
8GB (two 4GB) of 2400MHz DDR4 memory;
1TB Fusion Drive
Radeon Pro 570 with 4GB of VRAM

How much does Apple charge for those two machines? Genuinely curious.

Elsonso · December 2018

NVM. This was not the thread I was looking for.

zarnon_akoni · December 2018

ZOS_BillE wrote: »

@zarnon_akoni

You should not need to move to Windows in order to continue playing ESO. We are looking into the response you've received from our support team.

As for your original question on choosing a new Mac that meets the ESO system requirements, please go ahead and post the details on each system you are looking into here or in a new thread. We can then let you know which Mac machines would meet the current requirements for ESO.

Hi, ZOS_Bill - I just got an email from Bethesda support that says you will not comment on what what macs work and what don't, instead its up to Apple. I'm not sure how they can do that while having no role writing or testing your software. I guess I'm stuck with no answer and back to realization you have no interest in retaining your Mac customers.

delta_mystic · December 2018

I run Windows on a Mac with Boot Camp. ESO works great for me. Hope this helps

ZOS_Bill · December 2018

@zarnon_akoni

We can provide information on which MAC systems will meet the system requirements in order to play ESO. We are unable to offer advise on what MAC system you should choose over the other. Both system profiles you've posted meet the minimum requirements for running ESO.

ethernut60 · December 2018

The problem isn't your hardware, it is ZOS' (mis)implementation of MoltenVK. Almost all Macs since 2013 are Metal (which MoltenVK sits on top of) capable.

agegarton · January 2019

ZOS_BillE wrote: »

@zarnon_akoni

We can provide information on which MAC systems will meet the system requirements in order to play ESO. We are unable to offer advise on what MAC system you should choose over the other. Both system profiles you've posted meet the minimum requirements for running ESO.

The issue is that you guys broken the Mac client with Murkshite, and your communication ever since has been bafflingly appalling. You have stated that a previous patch fixes all the issues us Mac users are experiencing (FPS drops and crashes) but that is patently a lie. You know this, because you have multiple active threads open on these topics, including the original thread, and you have received multiple - many multiples - of support tickets.

I am simply staggered and astonished that you all believe you can treat paying customers in this way.

Delsskia · January 2019

I honestly believe that ZOS' only long term plans for this game are how to best monetize it while it slowly dies. PvP is fading fast, they'll let the PvE content and the crown store limp along for as long as they can as they laugh at all of us suckers that made their bank accounts fat.

demerdecanswrath · January 2019

Delsskia wrote: »

I honestly believe that ZOS' only long term plans for this game are how to best monetize it while it slowly dies.

Don't be cynical.

Moving to Metal is one of the most long term decisions they've ever done, no matter how poorly executed. Sales have also been going strong as far the major online stores are concerned and this game is generally concerned as highly affordable, since there are portals where you can get it for under 20$. And no there is no "pay-to-win" model in the Crown Store (have you seen other games?). I've been playing for three years, enjoyed every minute and haven't spent an extra dime since purchase.

So what if they had a development misstep?

Delsskia · January 2019

They moved to Metal because Apple deprecated OpenGL. By going with Metal, ZOS can squeeze more money out of Mac users while the game slowly dies.

ZarkingFrued · January 2019

Not sure why you would be mad at Bethesda over a Zenimax Online game?

demerdecanswrath · January 2019

Delsskia wrote: »

They moved to Metal because Apple deprecated OpenGL. By going with Metal, ZOS can squeeze more money out of Mac users while the game slowly dies.

I can't emphasise enough why the game is NOT dying.
There are facts and then there's fiction, please consider picking the better side.

ZeniMax's decision to keep a relatively low retail price on ESO is having a noticeable effect on the quality of the game and it's development cycle / long term decisions. We are happy to wait for those to come into fruition.

Not in darkness, though. We have all already stated how extremely annoying this silent treatment is.

ArranHS · January 2019

ESO is definitely not dying, but some more communication over the transition to Metal/MoltenVK would be appreciated.

Kaytlin · January 2019

Apparently the Mac Technical team is actually a Microsoft support team from the looks of the response that was received above. Talk about a bunch of crappers.
The problem occurring now is that the Mac Development team apparently does not know how to program for the Mojave operating system yet. There are multiple serious issues with the MacClient right now. Primarily due to the fact that the developers are having difficulty adapting the client since OpenGL is no longer supported by Apple. This has been confirmed by a response from their technical support staff to me personally. This is a good thing in the long run, in my opinion, as OpenGL is old school!
Unfortunately, the constant crashing, in battlegrounds, dungeons, lag, crashing when the game ends, etc are just some of the problems encountered by owners of Mac's that far exceed the minimum system requirements as laid down by the development team at the present time.
Promises of corrections have so far gone unfulfilled by the developers, with no hope on the horizon. At least not any that anyone with authority at ZeniMax is willing to commit to. The apparent lack of interest by the technical support member above is extremely concerning and I would hope that that team member is counseled, and moved to the windows support staff, since this is obviously his/her preference.
The operating system for the Mac is far superior to Windows in relation to virus immunity, ease of operation, ease of program installation, etc. Perhaps the Mac technical support team members might wish to spend some actual hands on time with a Mac before trying to sell us on a windows machine.
I hope that Gina or someone in the community response team will respond to customer concerns and let us know what is happening. Leaving customers in the dark as to what is happening is causing much concern among the Macintosh community who support this game and have supported this game since the early days of Beta!
Todays Mac update did nothing to resolve the problems Mac owners are having! Come on Man!

Sigtric · January 2019

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Not sure why you would be mad at Bethesda over a Zenimax Online game?

Zenimax Media is the parent company over Bethesda Softworks, Bethesda Game Studios and Zenimax Online.

Bethesda is the publisher in our case. Official support also runs through Bethesda.

Kaytlin · January 2019

Sigtric, don't you know there is no official support by Zenimax. If there was support someone would be fixing this problem. Prime time for many of us was over the holiday. Did the game work, hell no. Did zenimin do anything to fix it, no. Do they have agents that care, no.