Need DPS diversity ASAP

Jeremy · December 2018

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

I can only speak for PVE DPS but may effect PVP as well.

Every character has a preset loadout. It’s hidden by ideas such as *different sets* *champ points* etc but the fact is, it’s non sense.

If I make a new class, I already know what sets, champ points, etc I need for maximum potential DPS. I have about 4-5 toons that are cookie cutter toons and it sucks to simply keep up every patch..

I don’t understand why we can’t create characters and develop them in different uniquely ways to hit similar DPS? It’s just not fun and I’ve about exhausted every route I can take with multiple sets and rotations to at least change things up a bit and it simply doesn’t work. I can’t fathom playing this game another patch if this next patch doesn’t offer something substantial.

I’d rather have no more new lands to explore and would prefer to have new character options.

Maybe out of your three main skill lines you can choose one to become a master in unlocking a third morph tier? Or how about instead of just vampire and werewolf we offer different schools that you can train in but you can only choose one. It would need a massive overhaul that would take time and change the game for sure but at least it would be better than the former game idea: New Trial Beat it, New Set get it, change of resources so modify rotation and add different enchant. Changing up passives will not be good enough

Why is it so important to do your "maximum potential DPS"?

If the only thing you are concerned with on your character is doing the most damage as possible per second - then of course that's going to limit your build options. That's like going shopping for a car and then saying you are only interested in purchasing the fastest car there is then bemoaning there aren't enough cars to choose from. So in reality its you who are limiting your options, not the game itself.

Probably the main problem here are all these stupid DPS meters that people use to judge other players by - which have basically become the scourge of MMORPGs. I wish games would just ban their existence in their totality so people would stop obsessing over it.

BeefyMrTips · December 2018

Jeremy wrote: »

Why is it so important to do your "maximum potential DPS"?

If the only thing you are concerned with on your character is doing the most damage as possible per second - then of course that's going to limit your build options. That's like going shopping for a car and then saying you are only interested in purchasing the fastest car there is then bemoaning there aren't enough cars to choose from. So in reality its you who are limiting your options, not the game itself.

Probably the main problem here are these stupid DPS meters - the scourge of MMORPGs. I wish games would just ban their existence in their totality so people would stop obsessing over it.

I actually like this explanation best. But if I’m capable of shopping for a fast car, let’s say the BiS is a 10 second quarter mile but everyone has that one. I wouldn’t mind have a 11-12 second fast car that feels original and more unique to how I like to drive. Currently, it seems to be that the only other cars besides the 10 second ones are 13-20 second quarter mile cars lol. I want more purchasing power dammit!

Wifeaggro13 · December 2018

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

I can only speak for PVE DPS but may effect PVP as well.

Every character has a preset loadout. It’s hidden by ideas such as *different sets* *champ points* etc but the fact is, it’s non sense.

If I make a new class, I already know what sets, champ points, etc I need for maximum potential DPS. I have about 4-5 toons that are cookie cutter toons and it sucks to simply keep up every patch..

I don’t understand why we can’t create characters and develop them in different uniquely ways to hit similar DPS? It’s just not fun and I’ve about exhausted every route I can take with multiple sets and rotations to at least change things up a bit and it simply doesn’t work. I can’t fathom playing this game another patch if this next patch doesn’t offer something substantial.

I’d rather have no more new lands to explore and would prefer to have new character options.

Maybe out of your three main skill lines you can choose one to become a master in unlocking a third morph tier? Or how about instead of just vampire and werewolf we offer different schools that you can train in but you can only choose one. It would need a massive overhaul that would take time and change the game for sure but at least it would be better than the former game idea: New Trial Beat it, New Set get it, change of resources so modify rotation and add different enchant. Changing up passives will not be good enough

Lol tanks have been saying this and healers. Those roles are far far narrower . Tanks and healers are irrelevant for 95% . And your right 8t is non sense

rexagamemnon · December 2018

ESO was originally advertised as “play as you want” where gear and didnt determine how well you perform in game. I understand the struggle because i hate staffs but any magika build with out a staff just doesnt compare when you got guys pulling 40k+ dps and you are in the low twenties dual wielding. But to be honest i really dont see a way around it unless they nerf alot of weapon abilities or dramatically increase damage of certian gear.

BeefyMrTips · December 2018

I guess my way of thinking when it comes to this and the reason why I highlighted PVE is because eventually end game content becomes the goal for many people.

There is no doubt and I completely agree, you don’t need more than 40k to complete any of the end game trial content unless you are going for leaders boards.

So maybe I should clarify, I would like to see New skills and abilities more than high DPS. I’d like if those skills were capable of also achieving high numbers like the other skills. So, in short, I want more skills and abilities that can be more unique to a character by enforcing a choice. You can have this or that type method depending on path you choose. No need to get rid of current. I’d rather have no more new sets and restructure old ones to be complimentary of the other you choose and go from there. Again, not looking for BiS, I am looking for more class or skill options that you can choose from while also being limited in how many you can choose. No more everyone has access to new skills lines.

temjiu · December 2018

rexagamemnon wrote: »

ESO was originally advertised as “play as you want” where gear and didnt determine how well you perform in game. I understand the struggle because i hate staffs but any magika build with out a staff just doesnt compare when you got guys pulling 40k+ dps and you are in the low twenties dual wielding. But to be honest i really dont see a way around it unless they nerf alot of weapon abilities or dramatically increase damage of certian gear.

I would like that as well. Unfortunately, they decided to add a competitive aspect to the game. If that 10% of the game that required you to fill a more niche role didn't exist, then with what we currently have left, you could honestly do whatever you wanted and make it work.

Being able to do whatever you want and being able to challenge yourself with difficult content do not function together. I wish they did, but they don't.

Now I do wish that there was a more effective spread of difficulties. But I think that CP in many ways kills that potential. the real solution is this:
1) Kill end game progression. anything past normal dungeons is deleted.
2) Kill CP. no more CP. your toon ends their progression at 50, and it's achievements and skill points after that.
3) Kill PvP. no more PvP = no more need to outdo the next guy.

There ya go. Perfect world for doing anything you want. I'm not saying this is good or bad, but to really achieve their whole "Play any way you like" Thing they advertised so long ago, that would all have to disappear. And the playerbase would probably end up being gutted.

Kiralyn2000 · December 2018

Tell me how this is different than any other MMO? I remember when I played WoW... a patch came out that changed balance, the theorycrafters on their websites figured out the "correct" build for each class for DPS, and anyone who considered themselves "pro" (or wanted to believe they were "pro") followed the Flavor Of The Month.

It's how MMOs, especially ones with a competitive PvE endgame, work. No matter what the devs do, the players will find the build that gives 1% more DPS, and flock to it/kick people not using it/etc.

idk · December 2018

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

Lol What are you talking about? Blame math.. that’s not a legitimate argument in the least, especially if you don’t explain yourself.

Choices available to all classes? Well that’s pretty obvious, the problem is for max DPS potential, there are not. “Because of Math” based on each skill’s Coefficients you can calculate which skills are the absolute best setup for optimum performance. And the problem is that the next choice falls extremely short in many cases and maybe only one alternative choice for a skill that is the weakest.

I’m proposing different “flavors” within the classes themselves and outside of the classes.

I do agree the problem is everyone has access to everything, meaning there will always be a max potential despite the “flavors” of each class. Which is why I mentioned this;

If you limit access to abilities by only being able to choose one or another that will give more individual characteristics than being just a sorc, nb, warden, dk, and templar. Because if you are any of these regardless of mag or stam, there are templates that show the way to max out your build, and the next best thing is 7-10k less.

What I am proposing isn’t gonna make everyone equal but it at least allows a chance for people to play the way they want to play and hopefully with the right development have the dps within a 4K range. Some people want necromancer, bard, berserker, monk, etc.. maybe more than just one. Limit it to one, you can’t be a necromancing bard.

Currently, they introduce these other skill lines and we pick the skills like fruit that seem most tasty and the rest we leave to rot if it doesn’t help our DPS.

Finally that last part you mentioned. People are spending hours trying to do the exact same rotation as the people with max dps in ESO already. We are that mmorpg with predetermined loadouts and it’s why everybar and item you see in DPS parses are the exact same.

You laugh at my reply then you state that I am correct. Though it is odd to laugh at the math comment since this game is all about math. I figure anyone who would create such a thread as this one would understand that basic tenant.

I do not know how you think Zos can start limiting access to various skills to force more variance as that would be a total reversal of the foundation of character creation in this game. That is really all your suggesting.

Each class already has their own flavor. More noticeably with magicka builds than stamina since magicka has access to only one DD weapon line.

idk, it seems you are more accustomed to the forced difference other MMORPGs have between their class since each class only has access to class skills. However, even then, each class has only one build that performs best and a specific rotation that is a requirement to make the build work.

The ideas presented in this thread are short sighted and demonstrate a blurred memory of the past in this game.

Nerfing the sets that are currently BiS just mean other sets will become BiS. There is a time, not long ago, that BSW was BiS for every magicka build. There was a time before that the set that dropped in vAA and vHRC was BiS for every magicka build. It all comes down to the math in the formulas and what the sets contributed to them.

This will not change as it has been the case during much of the games history. Though in most instances there are various choices players had that were very comparable. Even the top players today do not all use the same exact build. Those that are truly the top players are constantly testing new sets, new rotation, etc, to improve.

As for the idea that Soft caps also lead to variation, pre CP, that is not entirely true either. With the exception of short term builds due to unintended results, theorycrafting results were pretty much like today in that specific builds for each class were found. Of course they all shared some components since some components that are accessible to all perform well.

So if someone wants extremely unique builds for each class in an MMORPG then ESO is the wrong game to play. It will never have distinctive builds. Heck, each class does not have access to enough in their skill lines to avoid shared skill lines and that is not a bad thing.

lagrue · December 2018

Honestly I don't even run meta... I don't have BiS Maelstrom Inferno so RIP me. I use Silks of Sun, BSW and Skoria - pure fire boi. Sure I might not be meta DPS... but I've also never encountered a vet activity I couldn't complete easily.

The problem with this game (and any math game) is down to math as your first commented said. People are always going to gravitate to loadouts that give bigger numbers, its only logical - but that's also how you end up with 5 cookie cutter builds. People prioritize effect over fun. That's fine, I have no disdain against meta players - but I do think you could have a bit more diversity and not suffer as much effect loss as you think.

The diversity exists - but people don't like it because they don't get the biggest numbers. Your view that there isn't enough diversity isn't an issue on ZOS end, it's in player's mentality.

When mulling possible solutions in one's head you might think - well let's have all sets and combos reach the same DPS values. Then one would wonder what is the point of sets, if everything can be equally as effective.

Considering the nature of DPS, I am not sure really how much we could make skill lines vary - I mean there is one primary goal right? Damage? You only have two real paths - either dump into AoE/DoTs, or dump into hard hitting single attacks. Sorc naturally dominates DoTs, far more than any class. I think the likes of DK though, finds a nice balance of Direct Damage and a bit of DoTs, Templar as well. Nightblade certainly excels at single target damage, but falls short on DoTs/AoE unless using a bow. I see all of those classes as quite different on their own, despite their limited objective. (NOTE: I did not mention Warden because I have yet to make a DPS Warden worth a lick.)

I do like your 3rd morph mastery idea - but I do also believe this will have the same inevitable results of a meta forming. Limited schools is also a good idea - but again, how do you prevent a meta from forming when there is only one objective?

BeefyMrTips · December 2018

idk wrote: »

You laugh at my reply then you state that I am correct. Though it is odd to laugh at the math comment since this game is all about math. I figure anyone who would create such a thread as this one would understand that basic tenant.

I do not know how you think Zos can start limiting access to various skills to force more variance as that would be a total reversal of the foundation of character creation in this game. That is really all your suggesting.

Each class already has their own flavor. More noticeably with magicka builds than stamina since magicka has access to only one DD weapon line.

idk, it seems you are more accustomed to the forced difference other MMORPGs have between their class since each class only has access to class skills. However, even then, each class has only one build that performs best and a specific rotation that is a requirement to make the build work.

The ideas presented in this thread are short sighted and demonstrate a blurred memory of the past in this game.

Nerfing the sets that are currently BiS just mean other sets will become BiS. There is a time, not long ago, that BSW was BiS for every magicka build. There was a time before that the set that dropped in vAA and vHRC was BiS for every magicka build. It all comes down to the math in the formulas and what the sets contributed to them.

This will not change as it has been the case during much of the games history. Though in most instances there are various choices players had that were very comparable. Even the top players today do not all use the same exact build. Those that are truly the top players are constantly testing new sets, new rotation, etc, to improve.

As for the idea that Soft caps also lead to variation, pre CP, that is not entirely true either. With the exception of short term builds due to unintended results, theorycrafting results were pretty much like today in that specific builds for each class were found. Of course they all shared some components since some components that are accessible to all perform well.

So if someone wants extremely unique builds for each class in an MMORPG then ESO is the wrong game to play. It will never have distinctive builds. Heck, each class does not have access to enough in their skill lines to avoid shared skill lines and that is not a bad thing.

I laughed at your reply because it was half assed the first time by just saying “Blame Math.” I agreed with the problem being everyone has access to everything, meaning that there will always be the ultimate combination and theorycrafters will always find it.

How would the introduction of new skill lines and abilities which are limited by choice be a reversal of the foundation of character creation if all the currently existing skill lines were still available? If anything that would create a more player specific creation by adding. The key is that it would be limited to one choice, otherwise it’s just another psijic skill lines.

I don’t remember mentioning anything about soft caps but I definitely appreciate this response moreso than the last.

idk · December 2018

lagrue wrote: »

Honestly I don't even run meta... I don't have BiS Maelstrom Inferno so RIP me.

Most do not on both accounts, but many do come very close to the same DPS, and sometimes better, doing things differently.

When Sorc pet builds were the meta I have seen a non pet builds, using no monster sets (monster sets were meta at the time) perform just as well or better. Though this person did still use vMA weapons.

People get to hung up on what a specific build states and do not bother to try different things or talk to others that perform very well. They like being robots I guess.

BeefyMrTips · December 2018

I feel most people are not understanding what I’m asking for.

1 2 3 4 5. Base Classes

12345678910. Base Classes Mag or Stam

1234567891011121314151617181920. What I’m suggesting through introduction of unique skills lines within classes or outside of them but limiting it to one option.

I could care less about being top DPS but it’s not fun picking just a number between 1-10. I’d like to be a 3 with the skill line of 17 maybe someone would like to be a 3 with the skill line of 13 because even though it might hit slightly less hard, it’s more fun because it feels more unique to them.

Royaji · December 2018

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

I feel most people are not understanding what I’m asking for.

1 2 3 4 5. Base Classes

12345678910. Base Classes Mag or Stam

1234567891011121314151617181920. What I’m suggesting through introduction of unique skills lines within classes or outside of them but limiting it to one option.

I could care less about being top DPS but it’s not fun picking just a number between 1-10. I’d like to be a 3 with the skill line of 17 maybe someone would like to be a 3 with the skill line of 13 because even though it might hit slightly less hard, it’s more fun because it feels more unique to them.

Here is some hard hitting reality - all you will get in that way is a different "color" to your skills. ESO has one fundamental design choice - no cooldowns. Combined with fairly small skill bars (10+2) this leads to a very rigid damage dealing approach. In essence every class is the same - buffs, DoTs, spammable until you need to refresh DoTs. Repeat. It may be a bit trickier on some classes than others but it is still the same approach. Every good build has that kind of structure and there is little you can do about it.

High direct damage skills are a no go since they can be spammed, deep interlocking skills are limited since bosses are immune to most effects. Maybe some kind of chains that affect skills but this will lead to limiting your bars and might be out of engine's ability. All you will get from more skills are just different animations. It will still be the same gameplay, pre-buff, apply your ground AoEs, barswap, apply your ST DoTs, do some spammable, restart.

BeefyMrTips · December 2018

I agree completely which is why those skill lines must be unique. For Instance, Think of those different skill line potentials. Instead of volatile familiar it’s a necromancing skeleton. What if you decide I’m gonna run that and volatile familiar.

What if instead of rending slashes and steel tornado it was a monk skill that uses fists. What if instead of just a dk it was a dk berzerker with more powerful non flame damage abilities but to make it successful would mean less dot usage.

The limit you are referring to is imagination. Ele weapon is a good example, it’s unique where it actually hits off light attack and after 5 charges get bonus damage. There are endless amount of attacks out there. Yes the damage may be similar but some might be greater depending on class and sets you decide to play.

BeefyMrTips · December 2018

There are a few classes already that hit around the same damage. The difference is how they do it through their own unique skills, why not make it more unique? Why not a warden tamer build that has a bear but can tame one animal as well that follows it as an example

Bouldercleave · December 2018

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

I agree completely which is why those skill lines must be unique. For Instance, Think of those different skill line potentials. Instead of volatile familiar it’s a necromancing skeleton. What if you decide I’m gonna run that and volatile familiar.

What if instead of rending slashes and steel tornado it was a monk skill that uses fists. What if instead of just a dk it was a dk berzerker with more powerful non flame damage abilities but to make it successful would mean less dot usage.

The limit you are referring to is imagination. Ele weapon is a good example, it’s unique where it actually hits off light attack and after 5 charges get bonus damage. There are endless amount of attacks out there. Yes the damage may be similar but some might be greater depending on class and sets you decide to play.

They can't balance what they have now, how are they going to balance what you are asking for? I'm all for diversity honestly, but you will not get that much diversity outside of a single player game.

SilverIce58 · December 2018

Bouldercleave wrote: »

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

I agree completely which is why those skill lines must be unique. For Instance, Think of those different skill line potentials. Instead of volatile familiar it’s a necromancing skeleton. What if you decide I’m gonna run that and volatile familiar.

What if instead of rending slashes and steel tornado it was a monk skill that uses fists. What if instead of just a dk it was a dk berzerker with more powerful non flame damage abilities but to make it successful would mean less dot usage.

The limit you are referring to is imagination. Ele weapon is a good example, it’s unique where it actually hits off light attack and after 5 charges get bonus damage. There are endless amount of attacks out there. Yes the damage may be similar but some might be greater depending on class and sets you decide to play.

They can't balance what they have now, how are they going to balance what you are asking for? I'm all for diversity honestly, but you will not get that much diversity outside of a single player game.

You realize that there isn't an MMORPG out there with true balance that everyone agrees with right?

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · December 2018

so easy put
Stam dds=Relequen+Advancing Yokeda+Velidreth
Mag dds=Siroria+Spell Strategist+Zaan
the diversity is there...yes but the dps gap difference its so god damn huge makes no real benefit to cripple 1 of ur dd to buff up 2 others so overall u just use that and get over it.

Royaji · December 2018

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

I agree completely which is why those skill lines must be unique. For Instance, Think of those different skill line potentials. Instead of volatile familiar it’s a necromancing skeleton. What if you decide I’m gonna run that and volatile familiar.

What if instead of rending slashes and steel tornado it was a monk skill that uses fists. What if instead of just a dk it was a dk berzerker with more powerful non flame damage abilities but to make it successful would mean less dot usage.

The limit you are referring to is imagination. Ele weapon is a good example, it’s unique where it actually hits off light attack and after 5 charges get bonus damage. There are endless amount of attacks out there. Yes the damage may be similar but some might be greater depending on class and sets you decide to play.

It is exactly my point - unique looks, not unique mechanics. How is the skeleton mechanically different from the familiar/bear? What is the difference with those "fists attacks"? Less DoTs usage is always going to be weaker since direct damage skills can't be hard hitting, they are a worse use of a GCD unless you make them brokenly OP.

Ele Weapon does not change how you play. In it's base it is exactly the same as all other spammables - cast inbetween DoTs. You should be weaving LA anyway.

In itself all of those are just cosmetic changes. Some weaker, some stronger.

Bouldercleave · December 2018

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

I agree completely which is why those skill lines must be unique. For Instance, Think of those different skill line potentials. Instead of volatile familiar it’s a necromancing skeleton. What if you decide I’m gonna run that and volatile familiar.

What if instead of rending slashes and steel tornado it was a monk skill that uses fists. What if instead of just a dk it was a dk berzerker with more powerful non flame damage abilities but to make it successful would mean less dot usage.

The limit you are referring to is imagination. Ele weapon is a good example, it’s unique where it actually hits off light attack and after 5 charges get bonus damage. There are endless amount of attacks out there. Yes the damage may be similar but some might be greater depending on class and sets you decide to play.

They can't balance what they have now, how are they going to balance what you are asking for? I'm all for diversity honestly, but you will not get that much diversity outside of a single player game.

You realize that there isn't an MMORPG out there with true balance that everyone agrees with right?

I do which is why what the OP is asking for is only going to make things WORSE, not better.

SilverIce58 · December 2018

Bouldercleave wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

I agree completely which is why those skill lines must be unique. For Instance, Think of those different skill line potentials. Instead of volatile familiar it’s a necromancing skeleton. What if you decide I’m gonna run that and volatile familiar.

What if instead of rending slashes and steel tornado it was a monk skill that uses fists. What if instead of just a dk it was a dk berzerker with more powerful non flame damage abilities but to make it successful would mean less dot usage.

The limit you are referring to is imagination. Ele weapon is a good example, it’s unique where it actually hits off light attack and after 5 charges get bonus damage. There are endless amount of attacks out there. Yes the damage may be similar but some might be greater depending on class and sets you decide to play.

They can't balance what they have now, how are they going to balance what you are asking for? I'm all for diversity honestly, but you will not get that much diversity outside of a single player game.

You realize that there isn't an MMORPG out there with true balance that everyone agrees with right?

I do which is why what the OP is asking for is only going to make things WORSE, not better.

Not necessarily. Sometimes adding in new things brings positive changes to the older things.

BeefyMrTips · December 2018

Royaji wrote: »

It is exactly my point - unique looks, not unique mechanics. How is the skeleton mechanically different from the familiar/bear? What is the difference with those "fists attacks"? Less DoTs usage is always going to be weaker since direct damage skills can't be hard hitting, they are a worse use of a GCD unless you make them brokenly OP.

Ele Weapon does not change how you play. In it's base it is exactly the same as all other spammables - cast inbetween DoTs. You should be weaving LA anyway.

In itself all of those are just cosmetic changes. Some weaker, some stronger.

The skeleton would be in addition to, not replacing, which means a change of rotation for sure. Lol the monk skill doesn’t have to be just fist attacks, I should’ve worded my quick examples better.

Also, if you DPS at all you know that ele weapon changed a ton of stuff. Helped with sustain and also came with passives to help defense vs maybe force shock which interrupts. These are different options and different gameplay but both are spammable

BeefyMrTips · December 2018

As far as berzerker maybe it’s skills have to be chained to be effective since it goes berserk? Idk but it’s possible to create something more than replacing one for one. Just gotta think outside of the box. I came up with two off the cuff just now, imagine if I was a person getting paid to do that and have unlimited resources. Why wouldn’t there be unique skills that change things up like Ele Wep

Bouldercleave · December 2018

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

I agree completely which is why those skill lines must be unique. For Instance, Think of those different skill line potentials. Instead of volatile familiar it’s a necromancing skeleton. What if you decide I’m gonna run that and volatile familiar.

What if instead of rending slashes and steel tornado it was a monk skill that uses fists. What if instead of just a dk it was a dk berzerker with more powerful non flame damage abilities but to make it successful would mean less dot usage.

The limit you are referring to is imagination. Ele weapon is a good example, it’s unique where it actually hits off light attack and after 5 charges get bonus damage. There are endless amount of attacks out there. Yes the damage may be similar but some might be greater depending on class and sets you decide to play.

They can't balance what they have now, how are they going to balance what you are asking for? I'm all for diversity honestly, but you will not get that much diversity outside of a single player game.

You realize that there isn't an MMORPG out there with true balance that everyone agrees with right?

I do which is why what the OP is asking for is only going to make things WORSE, not better.

Not necessarily. Sometimes adding in new things brings positive changes to the older things.

LOL - you're new here it seems....

SilverIce58 · December 2018

Bouldercleave wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

I agree completely which is why those skill lines must be unique. For Instance, Think of those different skill line potentials. Instead of volatile familiar it’s a necromancing skeleton. What if you decide I’m gonna run that and volatile familiar.

What if instead of rending slashes and steel tornado it was a monk skill that uses fists. What if instead of just a dk it was a dk berzerker with more powerful non flame damage abilities but to make it successful would mean less dot usage.

The limit you are referring to is imagination. Ele weapon is a good example, it’s unique where it actually hits off light attack and after 5 charges get bonus damage. There are endless amount of attacks out there. Yes the damage may be similar but some might be greater depending on class and sets you decide to play.

They can't balance what they have now, how are they going to balance what you are asking for? I'm all for diversity honestly, but you will not get that much diversity outside of a single player game.

You realize that there isn't an MMORPG out there with true balance that everyone agrees with right?

I do which is why what the OP is asking for is only going to make things WORSE, not better.

Not necessarily. Sometimes adding in new things brings positive changes to the older things.

LOL - you're new here it seems....

No I've been here since the beta.

ccfeeling · December 2018

This is how the game run ...

programcanaan · December 2018

Kinda wish they removed weapons swap and expand and improve the controls a bit. I do not appreciate the aesthetic of everyone throwing their arms up every 10 seconds (give or take) and pulling their off hand out of nowhere. It doesn't look good and it doesn't feel good... but you gotta do it. It feels clunky on console and probably feels redundant on pc.

It would change rotations greatly and diversify roles (would certainly take some work to balance everything). Removing weapon swap would also bring down the higher gear sets to be more in line with the normal ones. They'd still be better just not so much as they are now.

Perhaps they could finally adds gear sets as well. So you can have two different gear/ability layout without having to lug around all your armor and fumble around with skills all the time.

Easier for new players and a breath of fresh air for the old.

idk · December 2018

programcanaan wrote: »

Kinda wish they removed weapons swap and expand and improve the controls a bit. I do not appreciate the aesthetic of everyone throwing their arms up every 10 seconds (give or take) and pulling their off hand out of nowhere. It doesn't look good and it doesn't feel good... but you gotta do it. It feels clunky on console and probably feels redundant on pc.

It would change rotations greatly and diversify roles (would certainly take some work to balance everything). Removing weapon swap would also bring down the higher gear sets to be more in line with the normal ones. They'd still be better just not so much as they are now.

Perhaps they could finally adds gear sets as well. So you can have two different gear/ability layout without having to lug around all your armor and fumble around with skills all the time.

Easier for new players and a breath of fresh air for the old.

Granted I know some players who find the weapon swap clunky and did not like it. Some, after suggesting how they could get used to it, are doing ok.

However, getting rid of weapon swap would not add diversity to the game as it would make our builds more restrictive and narrowly focused. It would also not be welcomed by even reasonably skilled players that have taken the time to get accustomed to combat in this game.

In the end, over simplification of the game is not healthy for the game and getting rid of weapon swap is over simplification of character builds and the games combat.

dsalter · December 2018

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

I can only speak for PVE DPS but may effect PVP as well.

Every character has a preset loadout. It’s hidden by ideas such as *different sets* *champ points* etc but the fact is, it’s non sense.

If I make a new class, I already know what sets, champ points, etc I need for maximum potential DPS. I have about 4-5 toons that are cookie cutter toons and it sucks to simply keep up every patch..

I don’t understand why we can’t create characters and develop them in different uniquely ways to hit similar DPS? It’s just not fun and I’ve about exhausted every route I can take with multiple sets and rotations to at least change things up a bit and it simply doesn’t work. I can’t fathom playing this game another patch if this next patch doesn’t offer something substantial.

I’d rather have no more new lands to explore and would prefer to have new character options.

Maybe out of your three main skill lines you can choose one to become a master in unlocking a third morph tier? Or how about instead of just vampire and werewolf we offer different schools that you can train in but you can only choose one. It would need a massive overhaul that would take time and change the game for sure but at least it would be better than the former game idea: New Trial Beat it, New Set get it, change of resources so modify rotation and add different enchant. Changing up passives will not be good enough

mentioned this way back, its horrid how many abilities and old sets are completely useless in leveling, world questing, dungeoning and PvP. wasted potential, instead we get new sets that are either niché or awful.

ChunkyCat · December 2018

There will always be a particular set or two that will be best in slot. Just like I will always be the sexiest cat alive.

It’s simple mathematology.