Can we PLEASE just separate premade queues already?

BP_Sparty · November 2018

/signed by a salty permablock magdk that gets put against the same top tier premade every single game. I'm so glad there are other games out there that I can play rather then this unplayable garbage. I had a streak of games without the same premade in it and it was fun but ive fought the same 2-4 people like 15 times in the last 30 games.

Thogard · November 2018

BP_Sparty wrote: »

/signed by a salty permablock magdk that gets put against the same top tier premade every single game. I'm so glad there are other games out there that I can play rather then this unplayable garbage. I had a streak of games without the same premade in it and it was fun but ive fought the same 2-4 people like 15 times in the last 30 games.

Which one?

BP_Sparty · November 2018

it wasn't a full 4 man premade, just a super strong pair of stamsorc/stamplar that I get put against every single game it seems like now.

ChunkyCat · November 2018

There’s a new premade 4 man that I’ve run into on NA PC server. Couple wardens as healers, can’t remember the other two. You’ll recognize them as they have a pretty standard MO of crouching hidden until two other teams engage each other. Then they pounce. Once everyone is dead, they stealth up again.

Ive seen them online usually around mid day to early afternoon eastern time.

Their main healer started sending me some hate whispers after the first match I had with them. I guess I pissed him off when I killed him. Granted, I was probably like 1 kill and 8 deaths that match, but heaven forbid I took out their healer and messed up his flawless victory.

I’ll never understand why some people just get so incredibly butt hurt that they literally go out of their way to message you specifically with some angry hate rant.

Anyway, I put his whole team on ignore.

Solariken · November 2018

ChunkyCat wrote: »

There’s a new premade 4 man that I’ve run into on NA PC server. Couple wardens as healers, can’t remember the other two. You’ll recognize them as they have a pretty standard MO of crouching hidden until two other teams engage each other. Then they pounce. Once everyone is dead, they stealth up again.

Ive seen them online usually around mid day to early afternoon eastern time.

Their main healer started sending me some hate whispers after the first match I had with them. I guess I pissed him off when I killed him. Granted, I was probably like 1 kill and 8 deaths that match, but heaven forbid I took out their healer and messed up his flawless victory.

I’ll never understand why some people just get so incredibly butt hurt that they literally go out of their way to message you specifically with some angry hate rant.

Anyway, I put his whole team on ignore.

Haha yep I've fought this squad a few times. As soon as the other teams engage their permafrost gets rolling and they move in as a ball to 4v1 focus down any poor PUG who can't run out fast enough.

Fake Remedy · November 2018

MMR balances out the value of each team to be a similar sum total. Individual values for solo queued players. Duo's individual total values are added then multiplied, Trios individual total values are added then multiplied and Full Group individual total values are added then multiplied. MMR is wonky and match ups reflect that because of a number of reasons. Like.

1. Value = Individual skill on a particular character.
2. Value can only be accumulated by participating in bgs.

If you really got no friends/prefer solo pvp/wanna 1vX/skilled player and can't get your head round why there are premade teams of 4 players queuing up and looking for fights vs 2 others premades in an arena design for just that. Then you are playing Battlegrounds all wrong.

Stop slamming our own minority bg community and start asking ZOS for ranked Battlegrounds.

Edit. Multiplier is unknown. Its just stated that the values scale differently between 2, 3 and 4 player groups.

kaevix · November 2018

ChunkyCat wrote: »

There’s a new premade 4 man that I’ve run into on NA PC server. Couple wardens as healers, can’t remember the other two. You’ll recognize them as they have a pretty standard MO of crouching hidden until two other teams engage each other. Then they pounce. Once everyone is dead, they stealth up again.

Ive seen them online usually around mid day to early afternoon eastern time.

Their main healer started sending me some hate whispers after the first match I had with them. I guess I pissed him off when I killed him. Granted, I was probably like 1 kill and 8 deaths that match, but heaven forbid I took out their healer and messed up his flawless victory.

I’ll never understand why some people just get so incredibly butt hurt that they literally go out of their way to message you specifically with some angry hate rant.

Anyway, I put his whole team on ignore.

Don't recall any of us hate whispering you, the only thing we whispered you was "omegakek/omegalul" after you attempted to flank and kill the healer with flurry (which btw you never actually successfully pulled off).

Solariken · November 2018

Fake Remedy wrote: »

MMR balances out the value of each team to be a similar sum total. Individual values for solo queued players. Duo's individual total values are added then multiplied, Trios individual total values are added then multiplied and Full Group individual total values are added then multiplied. MMR is wonky and match ups reflect that because of a number of reasons. Like.

1. Value = Individual skill on a particular character.
2. Value can only be accumulated by participating in bgs.

If you really got no friends/prefer solo pvp/wanna 1vX/skilled player and can't get your head round why there are premade teams of 4 players queuing up and looking for fights vs 2 others premades in an arena design for just that. Then you are playing Battlegrounds all wrong.

Stop slamming our own minority bg community and start asking ZOS for ranked Battlegrounds.

Edit. Multiplier is unknown. Its just stated that the values scale differently between 2, 3 and 4 player groups.

I'm sorry but you're being super disingenuous about the reality of queuing as an optimized premade.

First of all, the power of a premade is SO MUCH greater than what is reflected in these arbitrary bullsweat MMR algorithms. Voice comms, dedicated healer (s), focus fire, ulti dumps, optimized gear/buff loadouts, etc. And then 9/10 times you get matched versus a PUG team without a healer that doesn't even fill to 4. Seriously how can you even....

Second, my full friends list is almost entirely comprised of people who like to BG, but even if there were separated queues I would still rarely if ever play the premade queue because slugfests that end in 30-0-15 are not fun and just a waste of potions and food. Ball groups blobbing together like little kid beehive soccer is NOT my idea of fun. I want chaos, real risk, real combat, and real reward.

Aixy · November 2018

I agree !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NupidStoob · November 2018

Fake Remedy wrote: »

MMR balances out the value of each team to be a similar sum total. Individual values for solo queued players. Duo's individual total values are added then multiplied, Trios individual total values are added then multiplied and Full Group individual total values are added then multiplied. MMR is wonky and match ups reflect that because of a number of reasons. Like.

1. Value = Individual skill on a particular character.
2. Value can only be accumulated by participating in bgs.

If you really got no friends/prefer solo pvp/wanna 1vX/skilled player and can't get your head round why there are premade teams of 4 players queuing up and looking for fights vs 2 others premades in an arena design for just that. Then you are playing Battlegrounds all wrong.

Stop slamming our own minority bg community and start asking ZOS for ranked Battlegrounds.

Edit. Multiplier is unknown. Its just stated that the values scale differently between 2, 3 and 4 player groups.

This only works with enough playerpopulation. Any game on higher mmr faces the same issue as that the playerpool becomes so small with only so few queuing at certain times that people will get mismatched. The Queue extends the MMR search radius the longer you are in it in order to eventually find a game for you. Since you are at the higher end of the MMR spectrum if you 4 man queue you will more often than not get people in your games that are not necessarily higher ranked than you individually, because the chances that a full team with similar MMR is queuing is still smaller. On top of that groups can easily lower their MMR (intentionally or simply by chance in order to have a better group composition) by having one person on a char with lower MMR which will create even more mismatches in the situation.

The fact that I run into you all the time whether you are solo or in a group should be enough for you to know that.

Right now as soon as you decide to group queue you are guaranteed to create a *** situation for any soloplayer you run into whereas if you soloqueue you are guaranteed to not create this situation.

Sure it's ZoS's fault for not separating solo from group, but it seems also obvious that there really isn't enough population to have a full group queue at least at higher MMR. Soloplayers are what make BG queues bearable right now whereas teams are a detriment by driving these players away.

Thogard · November 2018

kaevix wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

There’s a new premade 4 man that I’ve run into on NA PC server. Couple wardens as healers, can’t remember the other two. You’ll recognize them as they have a pretty standard MO of crouching hidden until two other teams engage each other. Then they pounce. Once everyone is dead, they stealth up again.

Ive seen them online usually around mid day to early afternoon eastern time.

Their main healer started sending me some hate whispers after the first match I had with them. I guess I pissed him off when I killed him. Granted, I was probably like 1 kill and 8 deaths that match, but heaven forbid I took out their healer and messed up his flawless victory.

I’ll never understand why some people just get so incredibly butt hurt that they literally go out of their way to message you specifically with some angry hate rant.

Anyway, I put his whole team on ignore.

Don't recall any of us hate whispering you, the only thing we whispered you was "omegakek/omegalul" after you attempted to flank and kill the healer with flurry (which btw you never actually successfully pulled off).

@kaevix hey message me in game if you want to try to arrange some premade v premade fights. Your builds sound interesting. I’m @thogard in game.

Solariken wrote: »

Fake Remedy wrote: »

MMR balances out the value of each team to be a similar sum total. Individual values for solo queued players. Duo's individual total values are added then multiplied, Trios individual total values are added then multiplied and Full Group individual total values are added then multiplied. MMR is wonky and match ups reflect that because of a number of reasons. Like.

1. Value = Individual skill on a particular character.
2. Value can only be accumulated by participating in bgs.

If you really got no friends/prefer solo pvp/wanna 1vX/skilled player and can't get your head round why there are premade teams of 4 players queuing up and looking for fights vs 2 others premades in an arena design for just that. Then you are playing Battlegrounds all wrong.

Stop slamming our own minority bg community and start asking ZOS for ranked Battlegrounds.

Edit. Multiplier is unknown. Its just stated that the values scale differently between 2, 3 and 4 player groups.

I'm sorry but you're being super disingenuous about the reality of queuing as an optimized premade.

First of all, the power of a premade is SO MUCH greater than what is reflected in these arbitrary bullsweat MMR algorithms. Voice comms, dedicated healer (s), focus fire, ulti dumps, optimized gear/buff loadouts, etc. And then 9/10 times you get matched versus a PUG team without a healer that doesn't even fill to 4. Seriously how can you even....

Second, my full friends list is almost entirely comprised of people who like to BG, but even if there were separated queues I would still rarely if ever play the premade queue because slugfests that end in 30-0-15 are not fun and just a waste of potions and food. Ball groups blobbing together like little kid beehive soccer is NOT my idea of fun. I want chaos, real risk, real combat, and real reward.

I think you’d be surprised by what happens in the prime time high MMR matches when you have top tier players queueing. It’s not about which team is the most organized since most people are already organized. It’s more about which team doesn’t have a weak link that can be exploited. Sorcs (both Stam and mag) are crucial for confirming kills. Syncing ult dumps is something most pugs do naturally. The game is very much focused on not getting sandwiched and you’ll see some interesting movement patterns because of it. Queueing with a healer often means you’re too slow and will get flanked and then have your kills stolen. Stam sorcs seem to be the dominant class in the highest MMR matches atm - 1 or 2 Stam sorcs with implosion and spin2win can carry a pug to victory with kill steals and proper timing / positioning.