Let’s be absolutely clear about one thing: the problem isn’t premades. The problem is when premades get put in the same match as solo queue players.

The rationale behind not having separate queues for premades and solo queues is that the population can’t sustain two queues.

It’s a valid point, but there is a way around it.

Allow premades to queue for the solo queue and the group queue at the same time. If they get put in the solo queue first (which will probably happen), then the group gets randomly separated between the three teams. So they’re playing in the same match but on different teams.

This also means that if a premade is out there that only wants to fight other premades (my favorite type of PvP) then they can queue exclusively for the premade bg and won’t have to worry about having pugs get put in on a third team. As is, too many premade v premade fights are won based on which team farms the third pug team more aggressively... and that’s a crappy system that isn’t fun for the premades and certainly isn’t fun for the pugs.

I’d also say that for the premade v premade queue, allow matches to start with only two teams if the queue takes longer than 5 min or so.

Also we could do a separate ranking system for each queue and have the premade ranking system more indicative of win rate rather than # of games played.

This system is ideal because:
1. It allows organized “competitive” gameplay.. if premades want to try hard, they can try hard without guilt because their opponents will be premades too
2. Premades can still go into the solo queue if they have no other premade to fight. This ensures the group can stay together and play together, but will lose their massive advantage for being organized. This is a great compromise. It also ensures that splitting the queues won’t hurt the population.

The only people who wouldn’t find this system an improvement over the current one are the premades that exist only for the purpose of pug stomping. And I think we’re all ok with that. If those premades don’t want to have to fight the “tryhard” premades like mine, then they can go into the solo queue and play on separate teams.

Thogard wrote: »

Let’s be absolutely clear about one thing: the problem isn’t premades. The problem is when premades get put in the same match as solo queue players.

The rationale behind not having separate queues for premades and solo queues is that the population can’t sustain two queues.

It’s a valid point, but there is a way around it.

Allow premades to queue for the solo queue and the group queue at the same time. If they get put in the solo queue first (which will probably happen), then the group gets randomly separated between the three teams. So they’re playing in the same match but on different teams.

This also means that if a premade is out there that only wants to fight other premades (my favorite type of PvP) then they can queue exclusively for the premade bg and won’t have to worry about having pugs get put in on a third team. As is, too many premade v premade fights are won based on which team farms the third pug team more aggressively... and that’s a crappy system that isn’t fun for the premades and certainly isn’t fun for the pugs.

I’d also say that for the premade v premade queue, allow matches to start with only two teams if the queue takes longer than 5 min or so.

Also we could do a separate ranking system for each queue and have the premade ranking system more indicative of win rate rather than # of games played.

This system is ideal because:
1. It allows organized “competitive” gameplay.. if premades want to try hard, they can try hard without guilt because their opponents will be premades too
2. Premades can still go into the solo queue if they have no other premade to fight. This ensures the group can stay together and play together, but will lose their massive advantage for being organized. This is a great compromise. It also ensures that splitting the queues won’t hurt the population.

The only people who wouldn’t find this system an improvement over the current one are the premades that exist only for the purpose of pug stomping. And I think we’re all ok with that. If those premades don’t want to have to fight the “tryhard” premades like mine, then they can go into the solo queue and play on separate teams.

it would result in higher queue times in Premade Vs premade...Even higher then just having a premade vs premade queue time which would already be high.

It would still probably keep the solo queuing going decently enough, but Premade vs Premade would be a waste of time mostly.

When I go BGs with my friends it is to play with them, not some random NB sniper that hides away 80% of the game. So any idea of 'splitting premades' would just make me quit BGs and go back to cyro.

Oh wait! Thats so laggy its unplayable... so yah, quit PvP then I guess. As I dont play MMOs to play solo, got singelplayer games for that.

Thogard wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Let’s be absolutely clear about one thing: the problem isn’t premades. The problem is when premades get put in the same match as solo queue players.

The rationale behind not having separate queues for premades and solo queues is that the population can’t sustain two queues.

It’s a valid point, but there is a way around it.

Allow premades to queue for the solo queue and the group queue at the same time. If they get put in the solo queue first (which will probably happen), then the group gets randomly separated between the three teams. So they’re playing in the same match but on different teams.

This also means that if a premade is out there that only wants to fight other premades (my favorite type of PvP) then they can queue exclusively for the premade bg and won’t have to worry about having pugs get put in on a third team. As is, too many premade v premade fights are won based on which team farms the third pug team more aggressively... and that’s a crappy system that isn’t fun for the premades and certainly isn’t fun for the pugs.

I’d also say that for the premade v premade queue, allow matches to start with only two teams if the queue takes longer than 5 min or so.

Also we could do a separate ranking system for each queue and have the premade ranking system more indicative of win rate rather than # of games played.

This system is ideal because:
1. It allows organized “competitive” gameplay.. if premades want to try hard, they can try hard without guilt because their opponents will be premades too
2. Premades can still go into the solo queue if they have no other premade to fight. This ensures the group can stay together and play together, but will lose their massive advantage for being organized. This is a great compromise. It also ensures that splitting the queues won’t hurt the population.

The only people who wouldn’t find this system an improvement over the current one are the premades that exist only for the purpose of pug stomping. And I think we’re all ok with that. If those premades don’t want to have to fight the “tryhard” premades like mine, then they can go into the solo queue and play on separate teams.

it would result in higher queue times in Premade Vs premade...Even higher then just having a premade vs premade queue time which would already be high.

It would still probably keep the solo queuing going decently enough, but Premade vs Premade would be a waste of time mostly.

there currently is no queue time for premade v premade though

on PC NA i can't remember the last time i had a round of consistent premade v premade fights that didn't have at least one team as a pug.

Lets say you did the first queue and the second queue, it was constantly split those groups up and throw them into BG's, While they're in other BG's split up, they wouldn't be playing other Premades, therefor Premade time would increase.

Lets say they do just Premade vs Premade queue, Lets say you have 4 premades actually running, that means 1 premade probably going to be left out everytime, Increasing queue times.

Queue times can end up getting pretty drastic as well....Take Rift, it had a premade vs premade queue after people complained, anything past just 2 players (meaning if you ran 3 it was a premade) got placed in this queue. We went from 2 to 5 minute queues (running 6 people at the time) to 1 hour queue's over night..So we started dropping down to duoing, and quickly quitting the game afterwards...cause we couldn't play together, which is where your first suggestion would run into problems, people wouldn't be playing together when they wanted to.

This is personally why i dislike BG's in general; because you run into these problems, they're basically Campaign Population problems on a small scale.

They should make it so solo players have the option to queue with or without premades. Basically two queues except solo players can choose to queue with premades or choose “I don’t care” or w/e. That way queues will still move fast and when solo players get put up against premades the onus is on them because they knew what they were getting into.

@Thogard I've just started putting together an discord adaptation of an old irc full group vs full group pvp system from DoAC/WAR. It minimal, self-sufficient and healthy. Drop me a message on discord @fake_remedy#3254

+1 for solo and group queues being kept separate.

I'm sorry, but no matter what level you are doing BG's at, queuing against two four man teams running four different (and seemingly stacking) poisons does not make for a balanced system. 9 out of 10 of my matches are just that and it's gotten seriously old, and seriously annoying to get used to how the fights work when you get one or two banged by an entire team on voice chat.

Sorry, but no, the way it is -is- broken and unfair to solo queued players. Splitting the teams won't work either, since they will still all know who each other is and that gives them the opportunity to completely throw the fight for their buddies. No matter how you want to slice it, there's s massive disparity here and it does need to be addressed.