Couple of Lore questions

lukastef · October 2018

I apologise in advance for possible spelling errors
I have couple of questions regarding lore and I hope some of you guys can answer or explain it to me. Im kind of a lore freak and I have to know the history and how everything works before I can enjoy the game properly.
Ok, now the questions:
1) the bosmer city of falinesti moves from place to place and it dissapeard roughly in 2E 582 when the ESO takes place, when does it return also I read that in the future it roots and stops moving is that true? And why did it dissapear?
2) If there are 16 deadric princes and 8 divines in the second era then what are Yfre, Rahjin, Thuwacca and some other redguard gods, what exactly is the Hist is it a entity of yfree maybe?
3) The first dragonborn was a Nord and all the descendants of Alessia had the dragon blood meaning they were dragonborns and yet Uriel septim was an imperial, how could he then wear amulet of kings only dragonborns could wear?
3) Dragons came from Akavir, are they still there in all the games previous to skyrim and where did they disappear for all that time and when was the last dragon seen prior to skyrim?
4) who exactly are dro mathra ( possesed khajits) how does all that work, are they influenced by deadra and how do the moons fit into khajiit religion?
5) why arent there falmer in dwemer ruins in ESO?
6) I guess not but does anyone know what happened with dwemer?
7) if mannimarco is a lich in elder scrolls 2 then why does he appear normal in oblivion also how exactly did he cause soul burst?
8) can someone explain to me how do bosmer, hircine, yfre, wild hunt, ouze all link up? Bosmers who break the green pact go to ouze but in the game I have seen bosmers burning their village and they didnt go to ouze also bosmers from grahtwood dont exactly honor the green pact and yet nothing happens to them, how come?

Those are all my questions I can think up, thanks alot in advance for reading and answering them.

prof-dracko · October 2018

Let's see if I can help a bit.
1)No-one is sure why it disappeared. It's a minor quest point in either Malabal Tor or Reaper's March. I believe it stopped moving when the apex stone, some kind of acorn, was either destroyed or lost. It's a weird complicated topic that's sort of gone into during the Summerset Psijiic quests.
2)Some gods are the game, just with different names in different regions. Most mer gods can be linked directly to the 8 Divines, since Alessia merged the Nordic and Aldmer pantheons when she became empress. The redguards come from a different continent, and have the most divorced religion from any others, though there are a few minor parallels. Rahjin and Ban Daar are more ancestral gods, mortals who the Khajiit have deified. The Hist are either Daedric or from a different reality altogether, and may pre-date Mundus.
3)Pass. I never cared much about the Emperor lineages. I'm sure there's a reason.
3 again)There is some theory that the Akavir came to Tamriel chasing the dragons, who were native to that land. If there are any left there, we're not told about it. They disappeared because they were systematically hunted down near the end of the Merethic Era or went into hiding, as mentioned in Skyrim. There was, as of the Second Era, still one Dragon acting as a kings advisor somewhere around Daggerfall, I think.
4)That is a massively loaded question. Dro m'Athra, a.k.a. Bent cats, are Khajiit who fell into darkness and were tainted by the dark behind the world. This is theorised to be a realm of the Khajiiti version of Namira, so they are in a way Daedric. Their entire culture revolves around the moons to an insane degree, largely attributed to Azurah, the Khajiiti version of THAT prince.
5) Dunno. They were mostly in the north and central areas of Skyrim, which aren't on the map yet. I guess they're all hiding in Blackreach? i'm sure they'll show up.
6)They did something they weren't meant to and unmade themselves. Blame Kagrenac.
7)He was just a pawn of Molag bal. It can be assumed he escapes Coldharbor at some point and carries on being awful.
8)It seems as though the Green Pact is mostly an elective thing, and if you devote your life to it then you're held to its laws. law breakers go to the Ouze when they die, so their soul is trapped until freed. The Wild Hunt is an ability innate to Bosmer, but it's a one-way transformation. It's implied doing this also breaks the green pact, but my memory is hazy.

Hope that helped, although I'm sure I got stuff wrong. Someone correct me?

VaranisArano · October 2018

3) The first dragonborn was a Nord and all the descendants of Alessia had the dragon blood meaning they were dragonborns and yet Uriel septim was an imperial, how could he then wear amulet of kings only dragonborns could wear?

Race in TES follows the race of the mother. So a Dragonborn Emperor marries an Imperial woman = Imperial kids.

7) if mannimarco is a lich in elder scrolls 2 then why does he appear normal in oblivion also how exactly did he cause soul burst?

Mannimarco is still alive at the beginning of the Main Quest. You kill him, which completes his transformation into a lich, but his bragging session is interrupted by Molag Bal informing him that he's none to pleased by Mannimarco's attempted betrayal.

Later, Mannimarco will ascend to godhood in Daggerfall and return as a lich in Oblivion.

The Soulburst happens when Mannimarco tricks Varen Aquilarios into breaking Alessia's compact with Akatosh using the Amulet of Kings, and kicks off Molag Bal's Planemeld.

lukastef · October 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

3) The first dragonborn was a Nord and all the descendants of Alessia had the dragon blood meaning they were dragonborns and yet Uriel septim was an imperial, how could he then wear amulet of kings only dragonborns could wear?

Race in TES follows the race of the mother. So a Dragonborn Emperor marries an Imperial woman = Imperial kids.

7) if mannimarco is a lich in elder scrolls 2 then why does he appear normal in oblivion also how exactly did he cause soul burst?

Mannimarco is still alive at the beginning of the Main Quest. You kill him, which completes his transformation into a lich, but his bragging session is interrupted by Molag Bal informing him that he's none to pleased by Mannimarco's attempted betrayal.

Later, Mannimarco will ascend to godhood in Daggerfall and return as a lich in Oblivion.

The Soulburst happens when Mannimarco tricks Varen Aquilarios into breaking Alessia's compact with Akatosh using the Amulet of Kings, and kicks off Molag Bal's Planemeld.

You didnt rly explain about mannimarco,
He does not return as a lich in oblivion, he looks like a normal alive high elf and yet he was a lich in daggerfall, and you didnt explain soulburst, I know that manimarco tricked varen into using the amulet of kings but how does that exactly create spupburst. Martin septim used amulet of kings and it didnt create soul burst. So how does one create soulburst by using amulet of kigns?

VaranisArano · October 2018

lukastef wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

3) The first dragonborn was a Nord and all the descendants of Alessia had the dragon blood meaning they were dragonborns and yet Uriel septim was an imperial, how could he then wear amulet of kings only dragonborns could wear?

Race in TES follows the race of the mother. So a Dragonborn Emperor marries an Imperial woman = Imperial kids.

7) if mannimarco is a lich in elder scrolls 2 then why does he appear normal in oblivion also how exactly did he cause soul burst?

Mannimarco is still alive at the beginning of the Main Quest. You kill him, which completes his transformation into a lich, but his bragging session is interrupted by Molag Bal informing him that he's none to pleased by Mannimarco's attempted betrayal.

Later, Mannimarco will ascend to godhood in Daggerfall and return as a lich in Oblivion.

The Soulburst happens when Mannimarco tricks Varen Aquilarios into breaking Alessia's compact with Akatosh using the Amulet of Kings, and kicks off Molag Bal's Planemeld.

You didnt rly explain about mannimarco,
He does not return as a lich in oblivion, he looks like a normal alive high elf and yet he was a lich in daggerfall, and you didnt explain soulburst, I know that manimarco tricked varen into using the amulet of kings but how does that exactly create spupburst. Martin septim used amulet of kings and it didnt create soul burst. So how does one create soulburst by using amulet of kigns?

Go replay the Main Quest and pay attention when the Prophet explains the Soulburst. Thats probably the best answer you can get straight from the game.

Varen Aquilarios isnt a Dragonborn. Mannimarco tricks him into trying to become one, which kicks off the main plot. Martin Septim actually is a Dragonborn.

Mannimarco in Oblivion vs Daggerfall is a rather debated topic among fans disappointed by his lackluster appearance. He becomes a god of necromancy in Daggerfall, and is apparently running around as a lich still in Oblivion (he's never stated to come back to life as a god of necromancer, but he could have made himself more well-preserved)

This picture illustrates one fan theory:

prof-dracko · October 2018

Yeah, there's also a sort of theory that the one in Oblivion was either the mortal remains of Mannimarco (long story) or a different person altogether who was trying to mantle him (another long story).

Bruccius · October 2018

lukastef wrote: »

I apologise in advance for possible spelling errors
I have couple of questions regarding lore and I hope some of you guys can answer or explain it to me. Im kind of a lore freak and I have to know the history and how everything works before I can enjoy the game properly.
Ok, now the questions:
1) the bosmer city of falinesti moves from place to place and it dissapeard roughly in 2E 582 when the ESO takes place, when does it return also I read that in the future it roots and stops moving is that true? And why did it dissapear?
2) If there are 16 deadric princes and 8 divines in the second era then what are Yfre, Rahjin, Thuwacca and some other redguard gods, what exactly is the Hist is it a entity of yfree maybe?
3) The first dragonborn was a Nord and all the descendants of Alessia had the dragon blood meaning they were dragonborns and yet Uriel septim was an imperial, how could he then wear amulet of kings only dragonborns could wear?
3) Dragons came from Akavir, are they still there in all the games previous to skyrim and where did they disappear for all that time and when was the last dragon seen prior to skyrim?
4) who exactly are dro mathra ( possesed khajits) how does all that work, are they influenced by deadra and how do the moons fit into khajiit religion?
5) why arent there falmer in dwemer ruins in ESO?
6) I guess not but does anyone know what happened with dwemer?
7) if mannimarco is a lich in elder scrolls 2 then why does he appear normal in oblivion also how exactly did he cause soul burst?
8) can someone explain to me how do bosmer, hircine, yfre, wild hunt, ouze all link up? Bosmers who break the green pact go to ouze but in the game I have seen bosmers burning their village and they didnt go to ouze also bosmers from grahtwood dont exactly honor the green pact and yet nothing happens to them, how come?

Those are all my questions I can think up, thanks alot in advance for reading and answering them.

1) Uncertain.
2) They are also Divines, just different. The Hist are, if I recall corectly, Magna Ge, they were some of the ones who created the world.
3) Because being Dragonborn has nothing to do with race.
4) The Dragons of Akavir were nearly wiped to extinction by the Dragonguard. Most of them on Tamriel were also hunted down. A handful of them survived. The last Dragon we saw prior to Skyrim was during the late-Third Era, 't least, we saw his skeleton.
5) They have barely started going back to the surface during ESO.
6) They disappeared, that's the only factual answer we have.
7) Because of the Dragon Break, two Mannimarco's came into existence. One became a God, the other didn't. The one who didn't is the one you see in TES IV. He caused the Soulburst by tricking Varen Aquillarious.

PrinceShroob · October 2018

In Daggerfall, Mannimarco's sprite is a recolored version of the Mages Guild cabal. Since the Mages Guild's summoners are probably not liches, Mannimarco isn't necessarily hiding a lich-like appearance under his cowl.

We know from Celedaen in Oblivion that young liches retain their human appearance. It's possible that decrepit liches, which are usually found in caves and ruins, simply don't take care of themselves and gradually rot (think of the movie "Death Becomes Her"). Alternatively, Mannimarco could simply be using a spell to mask his appearance.

My brother has a theory that when Mannimarco "sucked out Volanaro's soul" during his attack on the Bruma Mages Guild, he did so to mask his appearance and appear as an Altmer, rather than a shambling monstrosity. However, doing so limited his power, and when he was unable to enthrall the new Arch-Mage because of Hannibal Traven's sacrifice, he could be destroyed.

notimetocare · October 2018

To add to 3, Uriel Septim is Imperial, but the cause is already covered partially. The Imperials do on key thing many at that level of power to: Political Marriage. Tiber septim is a very, very distant ancestor. Hundreds of years of various political marriages would blur Nord out of being the only Septims

Edited: some Septims have been breton, not Uriel VII

Bruccius · October 2018

notimetocare wrote: »

To add to 3, Uriel Septim is Imperial, but the cause is already covered partially. The Imperials do on key thing many at that level of power to: Political Marriage. Tiber septim is a very, very distant ancestor. Hundreds of years of various political marriages would blur Nord out of being the only Septims

Edited: some Septims have been breton, not Uriel VII

Pretty sure most of this has to do with Septim settling in Cyrodiil, as did most other Emperors. Resulting in them, logically, marrying Imperial wives. Resulting in Imperial sons.

Enodoc · October 2018

Most of these have been covered already, but I'll go through them all anyway.

1) Falinesti - The city returns sometime before the end of the Second Era. It permanently roots sometime in the late Third Era; the reason is unknown, but may be due to its Perchance Acorn becoming Definite. Again, the reason for that happening is unknown. It is also not known why it disappeared in the Second Era, but some theories can be read here: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Collected_Theory_Hypothesis

2) The Daedric Princes and Divines are only two groups of the et'Ada, the gods. The et'Ada can be split into the Daedra and the Aedra. The Divines are only one group of Aedra, the gods who helped create Mundus. Y'ffre is from a different group of Aedra known as the Ehlnofey; while the Divines and the Magna-Ge abandoned Mundus after its creation, Y'ffre and the Ehlnofey stayed to become the Earthbones, which formed the laws of nature. Rajhin was a mortal (or possibly an Ada - divine spirit - like Pelinal Whitestrake and others) who was later worshipped as a god. Tu'whacca is the God of Souls and The God of the Far Shores, and is effectively the Yokudan equivalent of Arkay. For the most part, all Yoku gods can either be paralleled with Tamrielic equivalents, like Ruptga (Akatosh) and Tava (Kynareth), or put under the header of Ada (divine spirits), like Leki and Onsi. The Hist are believed to be a lifeform from a previous age and possibly another realm, from before the Ehlnofey made Mundus what it is now. The Argonians hold them as sacred, but it is unknown whether or not they are actually divine.

3) Uriel Septim was also a Dragonborn, as a descendent of Tiber Septim. Race is irrelevant, as Akatosh could theoretically grant the Dragonblood to anyone; Alessia, for example, was probably a Nede. When it comes to Dragonblood by ancestry, that can come from either parent, but the race of the child is always determined by the race of the mother.

other 3) It is unknown whether there are still dragons in Akavir, but it is commonly believed that the Akaviri Dragonguard hunted them to near extinction, which is why the dragons left Akavir for Tamriel in the first place. Similarly, they were subsequently hunted to near extinction in Tamriel after the Dragon War, which is why they disappeared. I believe Nafaalilargus was the last reported dragon seen before the events of Skyrim, which was at the end of the Second Era.

4) The Dro-m'Athra are the dark reflections of Khajiit, and exist due to the duality of light and darkness, where the light is the influence of the moons Jone and Jode, and the darkness is the influence of Lorkhaj. Khajiit normally "dance in the light", following the Two-Moons Dance of Riddle'Thar, but on moonless nights, or times where their willpower is low, they may instead hear the rhythm of the Doom Drum, and begin dancing the bent dance of Zha'ja Lorkhaj. Once their shadow lengthens and outweighs the light, the Khajiit's soul can be stolen by Dro-m'Athra and sent to Namiira, and the Khajiit becomes a Dro-m'Athra as well. Ja-Kha'jay is the Lunar Lattice, and is central to the Khajiiti culture, as it determines which breed (or "furstock") the Khajiit will grow into.

5) Falmer are the native elves of Skyrim - none of the Dwemer ruins we visit in ESO's Skyrim go deep enough to where the Falmer would be found.

6) The disappearance of the Dwemer is left intentionally as a mystery. How they disappeared is less disputed - hitting the Heart of Lorkhan with tonal instruments is a bad idea. Where they went after doing so is unknown.

7) Background lore first - a lich is an undead Necromancer, and Mannimarco is a very powerful Necromancer. Now then; Daggerfall has six endings - one of those is to give the Totem to the King of Worms, allowing him to use the Mantella to achieve apotheosis. In the other five endings, he does not make himself a god. Due to the Warp in the West, all six endings of Daggerfall happen at once, meaning that Mannimarco both does and does not become a god. The version of Mannimarco that achieved apotheosis is the God of Worms and the Necromancer's Moon; the version of Mannimarco that did not is left as an angry Altmer Necromancer that is killed in Oblivion. The Soulburst happened because Mannimarco tricked Varen Aquilarios into believing that he could become a Dragonborn emperor by using the Amulet of Kings in a ritual to appease Akatosh. In actuality, the ritual broke the Alessian Covenant, a compact Alessia made with Akatosh that would keep Nirn safe from Oblivion. The sundering of the veil between Nirn and Oblivion in the subsequent arcane explosion was the Soulburst, which disrupted the connection between the souls of the denizens of Nirn and their mortal hosts.

8) The Green Pact is the treaty between Y'ffre and the Elves of Valenwood which resulted in the formation of the Bosmer from the formless Ooze. Prior to this (during the Dawn Era), the Elves could shapeshift into numerous creatures, but not hold any one form for very long. Bosmer who break the Green Pact are condemned to return to the Ooze, with their names scrubbed from the Story of Y'ffre. Ouze is a location in eastern Valenwood in which the metaphysical connection to the Ooze is strongest, which is why Oathbreakers are buried there. The Wild Hunt is a special clause within the Green Pact treaty which allows the Bosmer to return to the shapeshifting times of the Dawn Era and turn into a horde of feral, supernatural beasts. These monsters stampede, changing their form constantly, slaying and devouring all in their path and eventually, when left with no surviving targets, turn upon themselves. The purpose of the Wild Hunt varies with each separate Hunt, from an act of vengeance to a tool of war. The Bosmer Wild Hunt should not be confused with Hircine's Great Hunt, which is also sometimes called the Wild Hunt but is something completely different.

RebornV3x · October 2018

3) Paarthurnax is sitting on top of the Throat of the World and would technically exist at this point and time

VaranisArano · October 2018

RebornV3x wrote: »

3) Paarthurnax is sitting on top of the Throat of the World and would technically exist at this point and time

As does Mirmumnir who never got caught, but neither of them actually do anything that isn't a secret considering the Greybeards are hiding Paarthurnax.

newtinmpls · October 2018

@Enodoc noted

"The Hist are believed to be a lifeform from a previous age and possibly another realm, from before the Ehlnofey made Mundus what it is now. The Argonians hold them as sacred, but it is unknown whether or not they are actually divine."

There are also some versions of lore which seem to imply the Hist (both singular and plural) may be the ancestor(s) of the Argonians.

Streega · October 2018

Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0Od2lbw9N4&list=PLnoBdER6tUmSVbmPtdFyFX9Rn6GdTLOE-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZjneISs-vA&list=PL7pGJQV-jlzB-qocScD0wPA5twwi1IM5p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2PlMjjK4rs&list=PL7pGJQV-jlzDglS_b_OM8vi21wm_XrF8v

Or this one:

https://www.youtube.com/user/camellworks/

Those are the best TES lore channels on YT, IMO

RebornV3x · October 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

RebornV3x wrote: »

3) Paarthurnax is sitting on top of the Throat of the World and would technically exist at this point and time

As does Mirmumnir who never got caught, but neither of them actually do anything that isn't a secret considering the Greybeards are hiding Paarthurnax.

After looking deeper 4 maybe 5 dragons could possibly exist in Tamriel during the time of ESO

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Atlas_of_Dragons

its interesting that the Blades might have know that Paarthurnax is at the Throat of the World being protected by the Grey Beards before the events in Skyrim

Mirmulnir- Last seen in 2E 212

Nahfahlaar- Last seen in 2E 369

It would be amazing to meet The Blades in a future DLC and maybe a Blades skill line but with what is happening at Cloud Ruler Temple in ESO who knows I would like a Dragon to be a final boss in a trial that would be cool.

Bruccius · October 2018

Streega wrote: »

Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0Od2lbw9N4&list=PLnoBdER6tUmSVbmPtdFyFX9Rn6GdTLOE-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZjneISs-vA&list=PL7pGJQV-jlzB-qocScD0wPA5twwi1IM5p
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2PlMjjK4rs&list=PL7pGJQV-jlzDglS_b_OM8vi21wm_XrF8v

Or this one:

https://www.youtube.com/user/camellworks/

Those are the best TES lore channels on YT, IMO

I would really recommend not watching either Fudgemuppet or Shoddycast.

Both have a reputation amongst the lore community of either being very casual, or outright wrong when it comes to a lot of things.