Maintenance for the week of February 23:
• NA megaservers for maintenance – February 23, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – February 23, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – February 23, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• NA megaservers for maintenance – February 23, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – February 23, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – February 23, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
GAMEBREAKING: Please nerf hirelings ASAP, or get rid of them altogether.
-
Spacemonkey✭✭✭✭✭I think simply having the hireling return the 'mail lottery' once per day per ACCOUNT and not character would be ok, or have it based on in game time played and not actual days. Either way ti suddenly becomes incrediby less profitable and exploitable, and wont change much for people simply playing the game normally.1 -
mewmew34_ESO✭✭So, maybe I just don't play MMOs enough to really get the issue, but......why am I supposed to care if other people are getting legendary equipment faster than I am? And how does it break the game if they do? I pretty much play solo. I'll group if and when I have to, but I prefer to solo. So, how does other people having high level gear really have any effect on how I'm playing the game? I'll level up my skills at my own pace and everyone else can do the same. Someone else having high level gear and easily taking down this enemy or that isn't going to keep me from fighting that enemy later.18 -
KindaMayvelle✭✭✭mewmew34_ESO wrote: »So, maybe I just don't play MMOs enough to really get the issue, but......why am I supposed to care if other people are getting legendary equipment faster than I am? And how does it break the game if they do? I pretty much play solo. I'll group if and when I have to, but I prefer to solo. So, how does other people having high level gear really have any effect on how I'm playing the game? I'll level up my skills at my own pace and everyone else can do the same. Someone else having high level gear and easily taking down this enemy or that isn't going to keep me from fighting that enemy later.
As a fellow solo player, I agree with this 100%. I don't care at all if anyone else is getting epic gear before me. It has nothing to do with me. And in addition -- even if you're a group player, wouldn't you WANT players who have great gear in your group? The only time I can see it becoming an "issue" is when you engage in PvP, but PvP is inherently competitive to begin with so complaining that someone has better gear than you because of this or that just reeks of being a sore loser (and no, I don't PvP so this isn't coming from someone who runs around ganking people with lesser gear).
And to further my previous point made about how nerfing hirelings is ridiculous -- EVEN IF you get lucky and happen to have hirelings send you legendary items, you would need a very high level crafter to use those items in the first place. So claiming that people are getting these things with "little/no effort" is a moot point. They need a high level crafter to use those items. Getting your crafter to a high level is not easy -- you have to put effort into it. And even ASSUMING they do not have a high level crafter -- they can either store the items until their crafter gets to that point (requiring time and effort), or they can sell it.
Now you may go, "well they shouldn't be able to make a profit off of it!" but that's ridiculous. That's like saying, "well someone found a rare item they can't use so they're selling it and they shouldn't be allowed to do that!!!" Do you see my point? And personally, I would rather someone sell a rare/legendary item they can't use to someone who can than have it sit around gathering dust. At least that way they can contribute to the game's economy.
20 -
Daverios✭✭✭✭KindaMayvelle wrote: »
As a fellow solo player, I agree with this 100%. I don't care at all if anyone else is getting epic gear before me. It has nothing to do with me. And in addition -- even if you're a group player, wouldn't you WANT players who have great gear in your group? The only time I can see it becoming an "issue" is when you engage in PvP, but PvP is inherently competitive to begin with so complaining that someone has better gear than you because of this or that just reeks of being a sore loser (and no, I don't PvP so this isn't coming from someone who runs around ganking people with lesser gear).
And to further my previous point made about how nerfing hirelings is ridiculous -- EVEN IF you get lucky and happen to have hirelings send you legendary items, you would need a very high level crafter to use those items in the first place. So claiming that people are getting these things with "little/no effort" is a moot point. They need a high level crafter to use those items. Getting your crafter to a high level is not easy -- you have to put effort into it. And even ASSUMING they do not have a high level crafter -- they can either store the items until their crafter gets to that point (requiring time and effort), or they can sell it.
Now you may go, "well they shouldn't be able to make a profit off of it!" but that's ridiculous. That's like saying, "well someone found a rare item they can't use so they're selling it and they shouldn't be allowed to do that!!!" Do you see my point? And personally, I would rather someone sell a rare/legendary item they can't use to someone who can than have it sit around gathering dust. At least that way they can contribute to the game's economy.
Clearly you are one of those taking full advantage of this.... and you know advantage is the correct term here.
So please answer me this:
What do you see as being beneficial for a character (Bot even for all intense purpose) remaining at lvl 3, never leaving town and never even being logged on contributing to end game? How is this more beneficial that actually having to put effort into a tradeskill in order to get that bonus from it? How does this change it from being a way to obtain stuff as solo to all of the sudden not being able to? Because you do not feel you should have to level any craft? or only level one yet get the benefit from all?
Also I would like to point out to you that finding a higher level crafter will ALWAYS be easy the bottleneck in gear is suppose to be the upgrade materials and that bottleneck should not be effectively bypassed by running as many lvl 3 toons as possible. I had some high end enchantments made last night. Took me about 5 minutes to find two crafters wanting to do the work, all I supplied was yup you guessed it the rares I got from hireling, I am probably rocking the highest level enchant of any lvl 29 player in game currently (Legendary Fire Proc) and I got it for free because of a lvl 3 hireling.
Edited by Daverios on 5 April 2014 17:346 -
oeb17_ESO✭✭oh no all this mimimi he got a better item then myself, is already starting.
casual players are not allowed to have legendarys.
All this jealousy nowadays is disturbing.
Enjoy the lore, quests of the game.16 -
Eris✭✭✭✭I think the system is fine as is and needs no changing. I'm sorry if people can get legendary items and it bothers you, and I'm sorry that it bothers you that you are getting them with your 16 characters a day. If it really, really, bothers you, just give it away to someone and pretend you didn't get it.
Side effects of reading messages on forums can cause nausea, head aches, spontaneous fits of rage, urination due to intense laughter, and sometimes the death of your monitor or other object in throwing range. If you find that you are reading forums more than 24 hours a day, please consult your nearest temporal physicist.8 -
Tabbycat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Hirelings, in general, are almost not worth the points you spend in them. You could get far more mats just farming yourself than you ever can get from hirelings. Every once in a while you might get lucky and get a few good materials out of them.Edited by Tabbycat on 5 April 2014 17:59Founder and Co-GM of The Psijic Order Guild (NA)
0.016%7 -
KindaMayvelle✭✭✭KindaMayvelle wrote: »
As a fellow solo player, I agree with this 100%. I don't care at all if anyone else is getting epic gear before me. It has nothing to do with me. And in addition -- even if you're a group player, wouldn't you WANT players who have great gear in your group? The only time I can see it becoming an "issue" is when you engage in PvP, but PvP is inherently competitive to begin with so complaining that someone has better gear than you because of this or that just reeks of being a sore loser (and no, I don't PvP so this isn't coming from someone who runs around ganking people with lesser gear).
And to further my previous point made about how nerfing hirelings is ridiculous -- EVEN IF you get lucky and happen to have hirelings send you legendary items, you would need a very high level crafter to use those items in the first place. So claiming that people are getting these things with "little/no effort" is a moot point. They need a high level crafter to use those items. Getting your crafter to a high level is not easy -- you have to put effort into it. And even ASSUMING they do not have a high level crafter -- they can either store the items until their crafter gets to that point (requiring time and effort), or they can sell it.
Now you may go, "well they shouldn't be able to make a profit off of it!" but that's ridiculous. That's like saying, "well someone found a rare item they can't use so they're selling it and they shouldn't be allowed to do that!!!" Do you see my point? And personally, I would rather someone sell a rare/legendary item they can't use to someone who can than have it sit around gathering dust. At least that way they can contribute to the game's economy.
Clearly you are one of those taking full advantage of this.... and you know advantage is the correct term here.
So please answer me this:
What do you see as being beneficial for a character (Bot even for all intense purpose) remaining at lvl 3, never leaving town and never even being logged on contributing to end game? How is this more beneficial that actually having to put effort into a tradeskill in order to get that bonus from it? How does this change it from being a way to obtain stuff as solo to all of the sudden not being able to? Because you do not feel you should have to level any craft? or only level one yet get the benefit from all?
Also I would like to point out to you that finding a higher level crafter will ALWAYS be easy the bottleneck in gear is suppose to be the upgrade materials and that bottleneck should not be effectively bypassed by running as many lvl 3 toons as possible. I had some high end enchantments made last night. Took me about 5 minutes to find two crafters wanting to do the work, all I supplied was yup you guessed it the rares I got from hireling, I am probably rocking the highest level enchant of any lvl 29 player in game currently (Legendary Fire Proc) and I got it for free because of a lvl 3 hireling.
Actually, I have only found one legendary item since early access began, even with all my exploration/hirelings/item gathering, and it doesn't bother me in the least because I'm taking my time with the game. So your accusation of my "taking advantage of it" falls flat there (especially since you have admitted yourself to playing the system -- are you trying to shift your guilty feelings onto someone else?)
And I think you didn't read all of my post. I don't know if you bothered looking or not -- in order to increase your chances of getting something good from a Hireling, you need to level that crafting skill and invest skillpoints in the craft. If you remain with only the initial skillpoint invested in a Hireling, your chances of getting high level items is very low. And if you get a high level item from them, that is pure luck -- therefore, you seem to want to penalize people for being lucky (including yourself, which baffles me). If you get lucky, and happen to get a legendary item from a hireling -- good for you! Only bitter people would hold it against you.
Again, I don't think you read all of my post -- if you don't have the skill yourself to use a high level crafting item, you can always either store it (if you plan to level your crafting) sell it (thereby supporting the game's economy) or, as you did, trade services with a crafter. As an enchanter, I would SALIVATE at the chance to craft a glyph using a legendary item. Your skill increases more when crafting a glyph that is made using high level runestones. So in fact, both you and the crafter making your glyph are benefitting from the transaction. Yet you're acting like people are being victimized because you participated in a very standard transaction for a craft economy.
Also -- you're demonizing people for the way they choose to play a game. Currently on my account I only have one character that has hirelings -- and that is my choice. People pay for their accounts. However they choose to reach endgame is entirely up to them. If they choose to make it easier on themselves by having multiple characters with hirelings, and only one or two characters they regularly play -- so what? That's their choice. You're acting as though anyone who plays that way is somehow "cheating" or "breaking the game" and therefore shouldn't be allowed to play the way THEY want because YOU say so.
You're also failing to consider that perhaps some people have a limited amount of time in which to play. Maybe they don't want to spend all of their play time working on leveling up crafting. I personally love crafting, and enjoy putting my time into it, but not everyone is like that. So maybe they choose to spend their time PvPing/exploring/questing instead (which still gives them a higher chance of finding legendary items than through hirelings). You're saying people should be penalized for not putting all their time into crafting -- that they shouldn't be ALLOWED to get good gear/enchantments because they're not crafters!
Guess what? Without non-crafters vying for our services, crafters are out of a job. They'd make their own gear and that's it. There would be no crafting economy if everyone did as you suggested.
14 -
CptData✭Well, ppl might hit me hard, but I actually like the hireling idea. It's not that you get rich with that hireling - it just supports you with some extra income. That's all. But if you really want to get rid of the hireling, replace it with a skill that nets you more resources per mining/gathering job. Instead of 3 ... 4 resources, you'll get 4 ... 5 or 4 ... 6 for instance.
The hireling is a nice extra.
By the way, I -really- love the idea crafters are no longer restricted to one branch but can try to master ALL branches. That's something I disliked in most MMOGs - the stupid restriction to one or two branches so you always were forced to buy expensive refined resources from other players. For instance, in some MMOG the blacksmith needed wood and gems for some of his better weapons. Neither could he gather wood nor gems - and had to buy both from other players. Not only did this restriction hinder the player to improve his crafting skills, it also made it incredible expensive.
In ESO, I can learn all branches I need for my class. As a Dragon Knight, Blacksmithing is the obvious choice. If you go down the Tank!Dragon Knight idea, you also need Woodworking. And, of course: Enchanting helps you too. So, despite having the option to have ALL crafting skills maxed out, I restrict myself to only TWO (!) of them with extra skill points, namely "Blacksmith" and "Enchanter". All other skills are "nice to have" or ignored completey (I don't spend any points to Alchemy or Provisioning for example). That also means I only pick the "Hireling" skill for the Blacksmith, but nothing else.
Hardly a way to get "rich" or "imba". However, I don't see any real issues with ppl playing crafting-characters only. Seriously. Why shouldn't they?
Did I miss the point?9 -
Benefactor✭✭✭✭You can easily get legendary mats from farming resources in the world in veteran content. So its not a huge advantage when that way is faster.3
-
CptData✭Benefactor wrote: »You can easily get legendary mats from farming resources in the world in veteran content. So its not a huge advantage when that way is faster.
Okay, that shouldn't be the case. I'd say, hirelings should grand you the resources for the first two tiers (green and blue) but not the other two, regardless of your character's level.
But I wouldn't remove that skill entirely, since it's not THAT gamebreaking at all, once you can't get legendary stuff for free.
0 -
Laura✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »i agree with this. zos is going to find that people will have little to no reason to do there end game content if the best gear is from crafters.
best solution is that some mats HAVE to be found in raids/dungeons
End game gear is better than crafted but requires crafters to upgrade to legendary.
good to know then I don't see the problem0 -
Daverios✭✭✭✭It shocks me that the naysayers do not see this as a form of pay to win.
It, is. Since I will out gear (or get there faster) most players simply by 'hirling botting' an extra account that I can afford to sub because I make good money in the real world. Heck if it gets left as is I would literally buy another account and farm that one too. That is the slippery slope we are on.Edited by Daverios on 5 April 2014 20:194 -
KindaMayvelle✭✭✭You're being way, way overdramatic about this. You are literally ignoring all of the people who, through experience, know that getting a high-level crafting item from hirelings is VERY RARE and that you were lucky to get any (much less two). You are insisting that because YOU (got lucky and) received high-level items from hirelings, the game is broken, it's unfair, everyone is going to somehow be as lucky as you and farm hirelings and the hard work of crafters everywhere will suddenly be pointless because FARMING HIRELINGS and people will get good returns on paying for extra accounts so they can have LOTS OF HIRELINGS that will give them LOTS OF LEGENDARIES!
Please. Please realize how ridiculous that sounds. If EVERYONE started doing that and suddenly EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHER was lucky enough to get enough legendaries from hirelings to "farm" them, don't you think ZOS would nerf hirelings THEN? That hirelings still, even after all of beta and early access, have not been nerfed should show you that you got very, very lucky and that your case is FAR from the norm regarding hirelings, and that you are literally crying "fire!" when there isn't any.8 -
CptData✭Daverios, I know guys who create instances in "Neverwinter" and bot-play 'em to generate thousands of crystals they need for crafting (it's acutally a co-worker and his guild). IF there's a feature that can be abused for money/resources/whatever, it's going to be abused and you can't do anything against it 'cept removing said feature.
Pay2Win is always an issue, you can't fully remove that problem. There are always players willing to pay money for gold-sellers, for instance. Even if only one out of a thousand is spending money on ingame-gold, it's a gain for the gold-sellers. Same for resource sellers: if players start selling hireling-resources for money, they might gain enough money to create another account - and so on, as you said.
However, it shouldn't be too hard to track "semi-dead" accounts: what does a hireling-scammer do? He just sits there and waits for his 8 (16) hirelings to drop the goods. That guy doesn't move his character at all or does it via bot, which also should be detectable, thanks to standardized movement pattern. Also, one can't log in with more than one character per account at the same time and NO one can actively control two characters of two accounts at the same time without some issues ...
Just purge database of said "semi-dead" hireling-scammers. Shouldn't be too hard to find 'em. Just look for odd names and low activity - that should be enough to find out who's actively playing - and who's not.
0 -
mewmew34_ESO✭✭It shocks me that the naysayers do not see this as a form of pay to win.
It, is. Since I will out gear (or get there faster) most players simply by 'hirling botting' an extra account that I can afford to sub because I make good money in the real world. Heck if it gets left as is I would literally buy another account and farm that one too. That is the slippery slope we are on.
Because it's not pay to win? We are not FORCED to pay for extra accounts or anything else in order to reach the current Endgame. It's possible to do it without paying anything but the subscription for a single account, and it's possible to do it with only one character on the account.
Why should people who play honestly and play their way have to suffer because you fully admit that you're willing to run bots on this game? Why should I have to give up my one hirling because you apparently have so much money you can afford to pay for multiple accounts that you'll never use for anything but getting mats from hirlings?5 -
XDem✭✭✭That's a lot of doom saying for being a few days after launch.
Wait till you're doing veteran content and see how much of those legendary tempers/resins/etc you can get by farming.
By this time, count how many legendaries you got from your 16 hirelings.
Once you have the numbers, then you can see if hirelings are "pay to win" or not.4 -
Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Simple solution - minimum play time per week or month on a character or hireling drops dry up. If people are willing to burn X hours a week to qualify and then swap items between dozens of characters then good luck to them.1 -
JohnG✭✭✭I just don't see the problem here, everyone can do exactly what your doing if they want to. If they want to invest the time, and money, into doing so then good for them.0
-
CTraveler✭✭✭As a crafter, I've never gotten any Legendary Items out of the Hirelings. The 24 Hour wait between mails plus the slim pickings that I *get* are often not really worth it either... Sure I get an occasional, slightly higher tiered mat, but nine times out of ten it's something I already have. But after using them in beta, I decided that the ONLY reason to invest in the hirelings in Live is for the funny letters, which I have done, because they are funny!
7 -
Pintobean✭✭✭Thank you very much for pointing out this outstanding feature! I have played MMOs forever and a day, yet have never had legendary gear in any of them. Now is my chance!5 -
WhiteQueen✭✭✭I think it is terrible the way to get the best gear is to have the best luck at RNG for having the most hirelings.
I have two account and can double my chances of having better gear than anyone that only has one.
For those that do not know:
The game does not drop legendary(yellow gear) it has to be upgraded using components. The best source of the components is to run 8x miner hireling on 8 char's. I can do 16. Each day even though you are only lvl 3 and only get lowly mats it has a small chance to give you one of the legendary upgrade items.
This is horrible and needs to change or else it is just a game of 'who had the better chance(RNG) of alt hireling returning goddies. People are basically setting up their alts setting hireling and planning to forget them for months and let the legendaries roll in with absolutely no effort.
I have a leg up on almost every player out there (except those in same boat) and I think this should be changed. That should tell you something.
The number of hireling you can have legitimately exploiting this is directly proportional to your number of character slot, your character slots is directly proportional to the number of accounts you own. The number of accounts you own is directly proportional to how much money you spend on the game. This is a slippery Pay to Win slope. Very slippery indeed.
Legendary should only return from hireling for high level characters (profession or main). Or drop from an encounter that requires effort. Having access to the best items in game due to 'mail lottery' is NOT the game I signed up for and I am sure many can feel the same.
The simplest solution however would be to ONLY allow an account to receive one particular hireling mail a day and not 8.
I believe unless this needs to be addressed right away, and is already having an effect on and endgame that has yet to be reached for many. And yes it is worthy of an emergency patch due to the exploitation going on around it, I would not even crab about the downtime needed on a weekend no less. This effects everyone and will only magnify over time.
Please voice your opinions.
Please be aware, even harvesting from a rune node gives you a chance of getting purple or gold runes. So the fact that the hireling occasionally gives you one as well is immaterial. I feel, in the case of Enchanting, this is deliberate, since you'll have to invest 8 or more skill points to make legendary glyphs.0 -
Jonnymorrow✭✭✭So basically Legendary items are about luck or who has the most accounts, hmmm thats just plain stupid. Needs changing for sure. And whoever come up with that idea needs to be sacked.
Why not make it so we can obtain the gold craft material from:
1: Hard group instances for a small drop chance of legendary items/materials.
2: Actual hard world bosses that require a large amount of players with a low drop chance on legendary items/materials. Would fix two problems with one stone since world bosses in this game and general pve content is a joke. Far far far too easy. Wheres the challenge? I havent had one so far
If crafted items are to be the best in the game then at least let us PvE to get the materials to craft them. Not rely on some hirling to bring us in legendary materials.
2 -
WhiteQueen✭✭✭WhiteQueen wrote: »I think it is terrible the way to get the best gear is to have the best luck at RNG for having the most hirelings.
I have two account and can double my chances of having better gear than anyone that only has one.
For those that do not know:
The game does not drop legendary(yellow gear) it has to be upgraded using components. The best source of the components is to run 8x miner hireling on 8 char's. I can do 16. Each day even though you are only lvl 3 and only get lowly mats it has a small chance to give you one of the legendary upgrade items.
This is horrible and needs to change or else it is just a game of 'who had the better chance(RNG) of alt hireling returning goddies. People are basically setting up their alts setting hireling and planning to forget them for months and let the legendaries roll in with absolutely no effort.
I have a leg up on almost every player out there (except those in same boat) and I think this should be changed. That should tell you something.
The number of hireling you can have legitimately exploiting this is directly proportional to your number of character slot, your character slots is directly proportional to the number of accounts you own. The number of accounts you own is directly proportional to how much money you spend on the game. This is a slippery Pay to Win slope. Very slippery indeed.
Legendary should only return from hireling for high level characters (profession or main). Or drop from an encounter that requires effort. Having access to the best items in game due to 'mail lottery' is NOT the game I signed up for and I am sure many can feel the same.
The simplest solution however would be to ONLY allow an account to receive one particular hireling mail a day and not 8.
I believe unless this needs to be addressed right away, and is already having an effect on and endgame that has yet to be reached for many. And yes it is worthy of an emergency patch due to the exploitation going on around it, I would not even crab about the downtime needed on a weekend no less. This effects everyone and will only magnify over time.
Please voice your opinions.
Please be aware, even harvesting from a rune node gives you a chance of getting purple or gold runes. So the fact that the hireling occasionally gives you one as well is immaterial. I feel, in the case of Enchanting, this is deliberate, since you'll have to invest 8 or more skill points to make legendary glyphs.@Jonnymorrow wrote: »So basically Legendary items are about luck or who has the most accounts, hmmm thats just plain stupid. Needs changing for sure. And whoever come up with that idea needs to be sacked.
Why not make it so we can obtain the gold craft material from:
1: Hard group instances for a small drop chance of legendary items/materials.
2: Actual hard world bosses that require a large amount of players with a low drop chance on legendary items/materials. Would fix two problems with one stone since world bosses in this game and general pve content is a joke. Far far far too easy. Wheres the challenge? I havent had one so far
If crafted items are to be the best in the game then at least let us PvE to get the materials to craft them. Not rely on some hirling to bring us in legendary materials.
Something you may not have considered:
Only legendary heroes can become legendary crafters. Legendary means higher than level 50. Veterans in other words.
Only legendary crafters can make legendary gear.
And only legendary heroes can wear legendary gear. So by the time you attain full veterancy you'll have a right to wear legendary equipment. You'll never see level 1s in legendary gear. The system makes it impossible.8 -
Daverios✭✭✭✭WhiteQueen wrote: »
Something you may not have considered:
Only legendary heroes can become legendary crafters. Legendary means higher than level 50. Veterans in other words.
Only legendary crafters can make legendary gear.
And only legendary heroes can wear legendary gear. So by the time you attain full veterancy you'll have a right to wear legendary equipment. You'll never see level 1s in legendary gear. The system makes it impossible.
Something YOU may not have considered,
Even though it does require a high end crafter to make the item. It is real easy to find a crafter and supply the mats yourself that you just farmed up running hireling bots.
The high level crafter NOR the player has to put in ANY effort. Just kick back and wait.
If ONLY high level crafters were able to get legendaries from hireling AND/OR the player was able to get it from higher end PVE encounters this would not be a problem because then they would be earned and not 'bot farmed'.
The issue is their hireling bot literally never has to leave town or even be logged on to obtain legendaries.
Edited by Daverios on 6 April 2014 17:551
