PTS Patch Notes v4.1.4

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2018

ManDraKE wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

It certainly benefits them the most, and they are absolutely the strongest PVP spec in the game assuming we are talking about experienced players. Not really sure how you argue with that. They defend by not getting hit, AKA, by a combo of cloak and roll. The one thing a sorc had going for them was that assuming they survived a NB burst, they could curse (pop them out of cloak) and then stun before they could reset the fight on them. That is no longer an option, because good NBs roll as soon as their cloaks break, then cloak again. Of course other stamina classes can roll dodge, but none do it as much as NBs, especially considering no other class is as effective open world in Medium armor as a NB, and if they do go heavy, well they have major evasion built in.

It benefits them in the same way that ANY other class running medium armor builds. Nighblades dont have ANY benefit related to dodgeroll. You can effectivle run medium armor builds in all classes, and is something really common, i always ran medium on my stamplar for example (and the best stamplars that i've seen, they all run medium), the only class i play on heavy is stamwarden. Stop spreading this false concept that making things dodgeable is a buff to stamblades (and i'm really disapointed that class reps are actually saying this, there should be someone on that group that actually understand medium armor builds...), is a buff to ALL medium armor builds (and to pretty much all builds in CP), that are the builds that get destroyed by runecage on live, other builds at least can take the burst and survive.

And if you have troubles dealing with stamblades as a mag sorc, then you are bad, period. Magsorcs are probably the best counters to nighblades, specially the squizzy builds that rely only on dodge. If there is 1 class that can effectible counter stamblades, is magsorc, by far.

I literally described how a sorc deals with NBs currently, and then explained why it is going to be harder next patch, but okay, I am bad apparently.

NBs dont have benefits to dodgeroll, but they do have a class source of major evasion and more upfront burst than anyone (save maybe a good 2H stam warden, but wrecking blow doesnt work against good players), that allows them to spec into regen better than most classes.

You said it yourself, NBs in a vacuum are squishy if you get a hold of them, perhaps the most squishy stam class. That is why they get their defense from avoiding damage (cloak/roll) rather than mitigating it in some way. That is my whole point. Every class can dodgroll, but I dont think any class relies on it more than a well played stamblade.

Also there is a reason the devs and class leaders discussed it, it's because it's true. Stam NB is on top of the food chain, and this absolutely an indirect buff to their playstyle. The reason we distinguish them from other classes is that while certain stam classes (stam DK comes to mind) could use a buff, NBs dont need one. All specs, especially stam classes, benefit from this nerf. If I had to rank who benefits the most, well, stamblade is clearly number one.

Waffennacht · August 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Joy_Division

I just wonder what the Class Reps say about that internally when they talk to the devs. It doesn’t seem that you are getting the „pain points“ through to them. Not your fault though, I know you tried.

We spent a lot of time debating Rune Cage and did not come to a consensus. I would say most of reps said the "dodgeable fix" would really only benefit stamblades. Two of reps said that even for magicka characters, dodge roll was legitimate counterplay. All of us felt what's on LivE currently was something that needed to be changed, but disagreed what to do (though none of us suggested to remove the damage and make it dodgeable). All of us felt the CC break on the skill was in a bad way. None of us felt the Defensive morph needed any adjustment whatsoever.

What we spent a lot of time on was that sorcerers wanted so legit options available to them for CC/offense that wasn't a broken (or overnerfed) Rune Prison. The one thing we did agree on was the change to Crystal Shard was something that satisfied nobody: the Blast morph still isn't competitive and the Frag nerfs have robbed the skill of its appeal in PvE and PvP.

I'm known as a templar, but sorcerer is the by far my second most played class, and I felt the things that annoyed me about the class were communicated to ZoS (PVE sustain is terrible, Crystal Fragment over-nerfed, can't streak over uneven terrain because of the loss of momentum, pigeonholed into a cookie-cutter build for both PvE and PvP morphs, lackluster Charged Atronach morph, Heavy Overload morph is spectacularly bad, stamina sorcs basically only derive Hurricane as an active skill, etc., there are others that I'm not thinking of atm).

I think the issue comes down to resources in that ZOS does not have enough of them to do more than a couple of class related changes per testing cycle. So Rune Prison is getting nerfed but Crystal Shard and those are things ares still on the backburner.

I have always felt and tried to communicate in our meetings is that every player on whatever class should legit have something to look forward to in the next update. It concerns me that this is not the case for Wardens (nothing done) and Sorcerer players (just getting hit with nerfs - call the dodgeable fury a "bug-fix" belies the reality that such a "bug-fix" is still weakening the class with respect to the other 4).

All I know is at least one Rep doesn't PvE and thinks there is no "BiS" in PvP.

My faith in class representatives obviously took a nose dive hearing that

What does that have to do with what I posted?

Your class representative discussion has players that don't know Jack giving opinions as if they are on par with others'.

Aka, if you have a bad player saying (example) frags needs to be nerfed, and a good one saying it doesn't, according to what you said in your post, there would be no conclusion with 1 support and 1 against. - While in reality, the representative that wants the Nerf is a freaking moron.

It means, I know for a fact, subpar players have ZoS ear, I know for a fact player's with less skill are being listened to over more skilled and knowledgeable players

It has to do with what you said in as much we have incompetent people supposedly representing me.

Wtf did the warden rep say to ZoS? Wtf didn't they get anything?

DuskMarine wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Joy_Division

I just wonder what the Class Reps say about that internally when they talk to the devs. It doesn’t seem that you are getting the „pain points“ through to them. Not your fault though, I know you tried.

We spent a lot of time debating Rune Cage and did not come to a consensus. I would say most of reps said the "dodgeable fix" would really only benefit stamblades. Two of reps said that even for magicka characters, dodge roll was legitimate counterplay. All of us felt what's on LivE currently was something that needed to be changed, but disagreed what to do (though none of us suggested to remove the damage and make it dodgeable). All of us felt the CC break on the skill was in a bad way. None of us felt the Defensive morph needed any adjustment whatsoever.

What we spent a lot of time on was that sorcerers wanted so legit options available to them for CC/offense that wasn't a broken (or overnerfed) Rune Prison. The one thing we did agree on was the change to Crystal Shard was something that satisfied nobody: the Blast morph still isn't competitive and the Frag nerfs have robbed the skill of its appeal in PvE and PvP.

I'm known as a templar, but sorcerer is the by far my second most played class, and I felt the things that annoyed me about the class were communicated to ZoS (PVE sustain is terrible, Crystal Fragment over-nerfed, can't streak over uneven terrain because of the loss of momentum, pigeonholed into a cookie-cutter build for both PvE and PvP morphs, lackluster Charged Atronach morph, Heavy Overload morph is spectacularly bad, stamina sorcs basically only derive Hurricane as an active skill, etc., there are others that I'm not thinking of atm).

I think the issue comes down to resources in that ZOS does not have enough of them to do more than a couple of class related changes per testing cycle. So Rune Prison is getting nerfed but Crystal Shard and those are things ares still on the backburner.

I have always felt and tried to communicate in our meetings is that every player on whatever class should legit have something to look forward to in the next update. It concerns me that this is not the case for Wardens (nothing done) and Sorcerer players (just getting hit with nerfs - call the dodgeable fury a "bug-fix" belies the reality that such a "bug-fix" is still weakening the class with respect to the other 4).

All I know is at least one Rep doesn't PvE and thinks there is no "BiS" in PvP.

My faith in class representatives obviously took a nose dive hearing that

there is no bis in pvp at all so no clue where you got that from. people can litterally make anything work in pvp.

Show me your Leaderboard position with "any" gear.

There's always a most efficient, effective, "BiS" armor. It's called math.

Edit: Now if you're saying BiS will vary depending on the characters' build and skill selection, that is true (Bone Pirate won't do well on a mag) however, that's not saying there's no "BiS." That's saying BiS varies (i.e. old school BSW was BiS for DD, or Alkosh being Tank or Kena DD way back in the day - those we're all BiS, just varying on objective) or for PvP Viper Selene Mountain was most certainly BiS on a Stam NB, or like Sload now on any DD

Joy_Division · August 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Joy_Division

I just wonder what the Class Reps say about that internally when they talk to the devs. It doesn’t seem that you are getting the „pain points“ through to them. Not your fault though, I know you tried.

We spent a lot of time debating Rune Cage and did not come to a consensus. I would say most of reps said the "dodgeable fix" would really only benefit stamblades. Two of reps said that even for magicka characters, dodge roll was legitimate counterplay. All of us felt what's on LivE currently was something that needed to be changed, but disagreed what to do (though none of us suggested to remove the damage and make it dodgeable). All of us felt the CC break on the skill was in a bad way. None of us felt the Defensive morph needed any adjustment whatsoever.

What we spent a lot of time on was that sorcerers wanted so legit options available to them for CC/offense that wasn't a broken (or overnerfed) Rune Prison. The one thing we did agree on was the change to Crystal Shard was something that satisfied nobody: the Blast morph still isn't competitive and the Frag nerfs have robbed the skill of its appeal in PvE and PvP.

I'm known as a templar, but sorcerer is the by far my second most played class, and I felt the things that annoyed me about the class were communicated to ZoS (PVE sustain is terrible, Crystal Fragment over-nerfed, can't streak over uneven terrain because of the loss of momentum, pigeonholed into a cookie-cutter build for both PvE and PvP morphs, lackluster Charged Atronach morph, Heavy Overload morph is spectacularly bad, stamina sorcs basically only derive Hurricane as an active skill, etc., there are others that I'm not thinking of atm).

I think the issue comes down to resources in that ZOS does not have enough of them to do more than a couple of class related changes per testing cycle. So Rune Prison is getting nerfed but Crystal Shard and those are things ares still on the backburner.

I have always felt and tried to communicate in our meetings is that every player on whatever class should legit have something to look forward to in the next update. It concerns me that this is not the case for Wardens (nothing done) and Sorcerer players (just getting hit with nerfs - call the dodgeable fury a "bug-fix" belies the reality that such a "bug-fix" is still weakening the class with respect to the other 4).

All I know is at least one Rep doesn't PvE and thinks there is no "BiS" in PvP.

My faith in class representatives obviously took a nose dive hearing that

What does that have to do with what I posted?

Your class representative discussion has players that don't know Jack giving opinions as if they are on par with others'.

Aka, if you have a bad player saying (example) frags needs to be nerfed, and a good one saying it doesn't, according to what you said in your post, there would be no conclusion with 1 support and 1 against. - While in reality, the representative that wants the Nerf is a freaking moron.

It means, I know for a fact, subpar players have ZoS ear, I know for a fact player's with less skill are being listened to over more skilled and knowledgeable players

It has to do with what you said in as much we have incompetent people supposedly representing me.

Wtf did the warden rep say to ZoS? Wtf didn't they get anything?

Can you quote me where I wrote in my post that one rep said frags needed to be nerfed?

We spent at least 15 minutes in the meeting talking about Wardens. We all said they aren't getting anything this patch. One rep specifically listed 6 or 7 skills that could use quality of life/efficient buffs that would make the class much more fluid to play.

I don't think ZOS has the resources to make all the changes that players - and they - want.

Xael · August 2018

ManDraKE wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Rune Cage needed adjustment, but all your really did was buff stamblades.

Because stamblades are the only class that can dodgeroll right? Everyone running medium armor can dodge plenty, on CP even on 5 heavy you can dodge roll a lot. Nighblades don't have any dodge roll reduction, is about time that people stop with the argument that dodgeroll = stamblade, the rollypolly meta for nbs died a couple of patches ago, there are better ways of build a stamblade.

Joy_Division wrote: »

I would say most of reps said the "dodgeable fix" would really only benefit stamblades.

/facepalm

@ManDraKE
Thanks for calling that out so I don’t have to.

I am tired of the myopic stigmas associated with solo play, stam and ganking. You see this type of rhetoric constantly, especially by those Zerg players who incessantly lobby for nightblade nerfs.

Nevasca · August 2018

I don't understand the nerf to Wizard Riposte. Want to nerf OP sets? Fine. Nerf Impregnable already.

bardx86 · August 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Joy_Division

I just wonder what the Class Reps say about that internally when they talk to the devs. It doesn’t seem that you are getting the „pain points“ through to them. Not your fault though, I know you tried.

We spent a lot of time debating Rune Cage and did not come to a consensus. I would say most of reps said the "dodgeable fix" would really only benefit stamblades. Two of reps said that even for magicka characters, dodge roll was legitimate counterplay. All of us felt what's on LivE currently was something that needed to be changed, but disagreed what to do (though none of us suggested to remove the damage and make it dodgeable). All of us felt the CC break on the skill was in a bad way. None of us felt the Defensive morph needed any adjustment whatsoever.

What we spent a lot of time on was that sorcerers wanted so legit options available to them for CC/offense that wasn't a broken (or overnerfed) Rune Prison. The one thing we did agree on was the change to Crystal Shard was something that satisfied nobody: the Blast morph still isn't competitive and the Frag nerfs have robbed the skill of its appeal in PvE and PvP.

I'm known as a templar, but sorcerer is the by far my second most played class, and I felt the things that annoyed me about the class were communicated to ZoS (PVE sustain is terrible, Crystal Fragment over-nerfed, can't streak over uneven terrain because of the loss of momentum, pigeonholed into a cookie-cutter build for both PvE and PvP morphs, lackluster Charged Atronach morph, Heavy Overload morph is spectacularly bad, stamina sorcs basically only derive Hurricane as an active skill, etc., there are others that I'm not thinking of atm).

I think the issue comes down to resources in that ZOS does not have enough of them to do more than a couple of class related changes per testing cycle. So Rune Prison is getting nerfed but Crystal Shard and those are things ares still on the backburner.

I have always felt and tried to communicate in our meetings is that every player on whatever class should legit have something to look forward to in the next update. It concerns me that this is not the case for Wardens (nothing done) and Sorcerer players (just getting hit with nerfs - call the dodgeable fury a "bug-fix" belies the reality that such a "bug-fix" is still weakening the class with respect to the other 4).

All I know is at least one Rep doesn't PvE and thinks there is no "BiS" in PvP.

My faith in class representatives obviously took a nose dive hearing that

What does that have to do with what I posted?

Your class representative discussion has players that don't know Jack giving opinions as if they are on par with others'.

Aka, if you have a bad player saying (example) frags needs to be nerfed, and a good one saying it doesn't, according to what you said in your post, there would be no conclusion with 1 support and 1 against. - While in reality, the representative that wants the Nerf is a freaking moron.

It means, I know for a fact, subpar players have ZoS ear, I know for a fact player's with less skill are being listened to over more skilled and knowledgeable players

It has to do with what you said in as much we have incompetent people supposedly representing me.

Wtf did the warden rep say to ZoS? Wtf didn't they get anything?

Can you quote me where I wrote in my post that one rep said frags needed to be nerfed?

We spent at least 15 minutes in the meeting talking about Wardens. We all said they aren't getting anything this patch. One rep specifically listed 6 or 7 skills that could use quality of life/efficient buffs that would make the class much more fluid to play.

I don't think ZOS has the resources to make all the changes that players - and they - want.

Well maybe they should focus on the changes the players want.

Joy_Division · August 2018

bardx86 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Joy_Division

I just wonder what the Class Reps say about that internally when they talk to the devs. It doesn’t seem that you are getting the „pain points“ through to them. Not your fault though, I know you tried.

We spent a lot of time debating Rune Cage and did not come to a consensus. I would say most of reps said the "dodgeable fix" would really only benefit stamblades. Two of reps said that even for magicka characters, dodge roll was legitimate counterplay. All of us felt what's on LivE currently was something that needed to be changed, but disagreed what to do (though none of us suggested to remove the damage and make it dodgeable). All of us felt the CC break on the skill was in a bad way. None of us felt the Defensive morph needed any adjustment whatsoever.

What we spent a lot of time on was that sorcerers wanted so legit options available to them for CC/offense that wasn't a broken (or overnerfed) Rune Prison. The one thing we did agree on was the change to Crystal Shard was something that satisfied nobody: the Blast morph still isn't competitive and the Frag nerfs have robbed the skill of its appeal in PvE and PvP.

I'm known as a templar, but sorcerer is the by far my second most played class, and I felt the things that annoyed me about the class were communicated to ZoS (PVE sustain is terrible, Crystal Fragment over-nerfed, can't streak over uneven terrain because of the loss of momentum, pigeonholed into a cookie-cutter build for both PvE and PvP morphs, lackluster Charged Atronach morph, Heavy Overload morph is spectacularly bad, stamina sorcs basically only derive Hurricane as an active skill, etc., there are others that I'm not thinking of atm).

I think the issue comes down to resources in that ZOS does not have enough of them to do more than a couple of class related changes per testing cycle. So Rune Prison is getting nerfed but Crystal Shard and those are things ares still on the backburner.

I have always felt and tried to communicate in our meetings is that every player on whatever class should legit have something to look forward to in the next update. It concerns me that this is not the case for Wardens (nothing done) and Sorcerer players (just getting hit with nerfs - call the dodgeable fury a "bug-fix" belies the reality that such a "bug-fix" is still weakening the class with respect to the other 4).

All I know is at least one Rep doesn't PvE and thinks there is no "BiS" in PvP.

My faith in class representatives obviously took a nose dive hearing that

What does that have to do with what I posted?

Your class representative discussion has players that don't know Jack giving opinions as if they are on par with others'.

Aka, if you have a bad player saying (example) frags needs to be nerfed, and a good one saying it doesn't, according to what you said in your post, there would be no conclusion with 1 support and 1 against. - While in reality, the representative that wants the Nerf is a freaking moron.

It means, I know for a fact, subpar players have ZoS ear, I know for a fact player's with less skill are being listened to over more skilled and knowledgeable players

It has to do with what you said in as much we have incompetent people supposedly representing me.

Wtf did the warden rep say to ZoS? Wtf didn't they get anything?

Can you quote me where I wrote in my post that one rep said frags needed to be nerfed?

We spent at least 15 minutes in the meeting talking about Wardens. We all said they aren't getting anything this patch. One rep specifically listed 6 or 7 skills that could use quality of life/efficient buffs that would make the class much more fluid to play.

I don't think ZOS has the resources to make all the changes that players - and they - want.

Well maybe they should focus on the changes the players want.

What the players want is not entirely clear. Many people who don't play sorcs (in PvP anyway) and NBs think they are too strong and the ones who do think the other people need to L2P.

It's seems easy to say that the other class ought to be buffed, but how to go about that without making them into problems (DKs and temps were once considered monsters) and then how to adjust skills that are deemed to strong. It's not as obvious as people are making it out to be.

Waffennacht · August 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Joy_Division

I just wonder what the Class Reps say about that internally when they talk to the devs. It doesn’t seem that you are getting the „pain points“ through to them. Not your fault though, I know you tried.

We spent a lot of time debating Rune Cage and did not come to a consensus. I would say most of reps said the "dodgeable fix" would really only benefit stamblades. Two of reps said that even for magicka characters, dodge roll was legitimate counterplay. All of us felt what's on LivE currently was something that needed to be changed, but disagreed what to do (though none of us suggested to remove the damage and make it dodgeable). All of us felt the CC break on the skill was in a bad way. None of us felt the Defensive morph needed any adjustment whatsoever.

What we spent a lot of time on was that sorcerers wanted so legit options available to them for CC/offense that wasn't a broken (or overnerfed) Rune Prison. The one thing we did agree on was the change to Crystal Shard was something that satisfied nobody: the Blast morph still isn't competitive and the Frag nerfs have robbed the skill of its appeal in PvE and PvP.

I'm known as a templar, but sorcerer is the by far my second most played class, and I felt the things that annoyed me about the class were communicated to ZoS (PVE sustain is terrible, Crystal Fragment over-nerfed, can't streak over uneven terrain because of the loss of momentum, pigeonholed into a cookie-cutter build for both PvE and PvP morphs, lackluster Charged Atronach morph, Heavy Overload morph is spectacularly bad, stamina sorcs basically only derive Hurricane as an active skill, etc., there are others that I'm not thinking of atm).

I think the issue comes down to resources in that ZOS does not have enough of them to do more than a couple of class related changes per testing cycle. So Rune Prison is getting nerfed but Crystal Shard and those are things ares still on the backburner.

I have always felt and tried to communicate in our meetings is that every player on whatever class should legit have something to look forward to in the next update. It concerns me that this is not the case for Wardens (nothing done) and Sorcerer players (just getting hit with nerfs - call the dodgeable fury a "bug-fix" belies the reality that such a "bug-fix" is still weakening the class with respect to the other 4).

All I know is at least one Rep doesn't PvE and thinks there is no "BiS" in PvP.

My faith in class representatives obviously took a nose dive hearing that

What does that have to do with what I posted?

Your class representative discussion has players that don't know Jack giving opinions as if they are on par with others'.

Aka, if you have a bad player saying (example) frags needs to be nerfed, and a good one saying it doesn't, according to what you said in your post, there would be no conclusion with 1 support and 1 against. - While in reality, the representative that wants the Nerf is a freaking moron.

It means, I know for a fact, subpar players have ZoS ear, I know for a fact player's with less skill are being listened to over more skilled and knowledgeable players

It has to do with what you said in as much we have incompetent people supposedly representing me.

Wtf did the warden rep say to ZoS? Wtf didn't they get anything?

Can you quote me where I wrote in my post that one rep said frags needed to be nerfed?

We spent at least 15 minutes in the meeting talking about Wardens. We all said they aren't getting anything this patch. One rep specifically listed 6 or 7 skills that could use quality of life/efficient buffs that would make the class much more fluid to play.

I don't think ZOS has the resources to make all the changes that players - and they - want.

I even said in that, that it was an example. I am speaking about the other things those individuals whom were apart of your discussion have said. The things they have said make me doubt they could have an informed opinion about many aspects of this game. The idea that an individual that is lacking in experience/knowledge is supposed to represent and offer concise and informed opinions to the company is very worrying.

The idea that such an individual's opinion is taken as seriously and equally to say someone such as yourself is also quite worrying.

If one of these people has or had disagreed with certain key components of the game and that's why we don't see such changes, well then that's just horrendous.

But I have no idea exactly what was said during your conversation, all I know is what I've read said publicly on the forums, and that information, combined with yours, is very disheartening

IZZEFlameLash · August 2018

ManDraKE wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Rune Cage needed adjustment, but all your really did was buff stamblades.

Because stamblades are the only class that can dodgeroll right? Everyone running medium armor can dodge plenty, on CP even on 5 heavy you can dodge roll a lot. Nighblades don't have any dodge roll reduction, is about time that people stop with the argument that dodgeroll = stamblade, the rollypolly meta for nbs died a couple of patches ago, there are better ways of build a stamblade.

Joy_Division wrote: »

I would say most of reps said the "dodgeable fix" would really only benefit stamblades.

/facepalm

Because Stamblades are the only ones that can dodge roll AND Cloak. Taking 0 damage for whole 3.9 seconds in total if all went smoothly while all the other stam specs will be hit at least one time during the combat because they are all visible. Oh and the Major Evasion access regardless of armor weight. For NBs on top of dodge roll and Cloak.

Joy_Division · August 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Joy_Division

I just wonder what the Class Reps say about that internally when they talk to the devs. It doesn’t seem that you are getting the „pain points“ through to them. Not your fault though, I know you tried.

We spent a lot of time debating Rune Cage and did not come to a consensus. I would say most of reps said the "dodgeable fix" would really only benefit stamblades. Two of reps said that even for magicka characters, dodge roll was legitimate counterplay. All of us felt what's on LivE currently was something that needed to be changed, but disagreed what to do (though none of us suggested to remove the damage and make it dodgeable). All of us felt the CC break on the skill was in a bad way. None of us felt the Defensive morph needed any adjustment whatsoever.

What we spent a lot of time on was that sorcerers wanted so legit options available to them for CC/offense that wasn't a broken (or overnerfed) Rune Prison. The one thing we did agree on was the change to Crystal Shard was something that satisfied nobody: the Blast morph still isn't competitive and the Frag nerfs have robbed the skill of its appeal in PvE and PvP.

I'm known as a templar, but sorcerer is the by far my second most played class, and I felt the things that annoyed me about the class were communicated to ZoS (PVE sustain is terrible, Crystal Fragment over-nerfed, can't streak over uneven terrain because of the loss of momentum, pigeonholed into a cookie-cutter build for both PvE and PvP morphs, lackluster Charged Atronach morph, Heavy Overload morph is spectacularly bad, stamina sorcs basically only derive Hurricane as an active skill, etc., there are others that I'm not thinking of atm).

I think the issue comes down to resources in that ZOS does not have enough of them to do more than a couple of class related changes per testing cycle. So Rune Prison is getting nerfed but Crystal Shard and those are things ares still on the backburner.

I have always felt and tried to communicate in our meetings is that every player on whatever class should legit have something to look forward to in the next update. It concerns me that this is not the case for Wardens (nothing done) and Sorcerer players (just getting hit with nerfs - call the dodgeable fury a "bug-fix" belies the reality that such a "bug-fix" is still weakening the class with respect to the other 4).

All I know is at least one Rep doesn't PvE and thinks there is no "BiS" in PvP.

My faith in class representatives obviously took a nose dive hearing that

What does that have to do with what I posted?

Your class representative discussion has players that don't know Jack giving opinions as if they are on par with others'.

Aka, if you have a bad player saying (example) frags needs to be nerfed, and a good one saying it doesn't, according to what you said in your post, there would be no conclusion with 1 support and 1 against. - While in reality, the representative that wants the Nerf is a freaking moron.

It means, I know for a fact, subpar players have ZoS ear, I know for a fact player's with less skill are being listened to over more skilled and knowledgeable players

It has to do with what you said in as much we have incompetent people supposedly representing me.

Wtf did the warden rep say to ZoS? Wtf didn't they get anything?

Can you quote me where I wrote in my post that one rep said frags needed to be nerfed?

We spent at least 15 minutes in the meeting talking about Wardens. We all said they aren't getting anything this patch. One rep specifically listed 6 or 7 skills that could use quality of life/efficient buffs that would make the class much more fluid to play.

I don't think ZOS has the resources to make all the changes that players - and they - want.

I even said in that, that it was an example. I am speaking about the other things those individuals whom were apart of your discussion have said. The things they have said make me doubt they could have an informed opinion about many aspects of this game. The idea that an individual that is lacking in experience/knowledge is supposed to represent and offer concise and informed opinions to the company is very worrying.

The idea that such an individual's opinion is taken as seriously and equally to say someone such as yourself is also quite worrying.

If one of these people has or had disagreed with certain key components of the game and that's why we don't see such changes, well then that's just horrendous.

But I have no idea exactly what was said during your conversation, all I know is what I've read said publicly on the forums, and that information, combined with yours, is very disheartening

I think you are overestimating the amount of influence this particular person(s) has. People have been overestimating the amount of pull and say the Rep program has had from the start. We have been told time and time again not to offer solutions because we aren't ZOS employees, we aren't paid, it's not "our" game, etc.

We are going to disagree. And it's good that we do because as simple and obvious that so many players are making the issues and problems out there, the reality of the situation is that things are complex and smart people who are independent thinkers are going to come to different conclusions and they ought to be considered even if not adopted.

I totally understand that some people are going to feel like they are left out of this patch. It is not because one or two people have disproportionate amount of influence and are leading ZOS astray. ZOS came to us with most of update 19 already done (the werewolf theme) and devoted the small amount of time and resources they had to trying to alleviate big picture issues that many people agreed needed adjustment (for example defile, snares) and some obvious minor changes they could quickly address (templar Rune Focus, DK wings, for instance). There are people left out, but there are also some good changes in those notes, even if I don't agree with all of them. The reps and the devs are just beginning to have a feel for each other and how to make the process better and more efficient. For the next update, we are going to meet with the Devs way before they put it on PTS and they are already asking for specific class issues.

John_Falstaff · August 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

I don't think ZOS has the resources to make all the changes that players - and they - want.

Not to sound dreary, but if that's so, then the company's really struggling with keeping their game in good order, and it pushes me towards the thoughts about jumping the ship. If it takes four months of work to make a few adjustments to skills and land a clumsy nerf that nonchalantly declaws already dwindling competition NBs had, then, at such pace, there's no chance they'll pull stamina (and in particular stamina DK I main and enjoy playing) from that unsavory spot they managed to place it in until 2020.

@ZOS_RobGarrett mentioned that they're "giving players time to adopt". It starts dawning on me what exactly was meant by adopting - we're invited to stop being crybabies already and just roll magblades/magsorcs for PvE and stamblades for PvP. It's not open source, it's a paid product (and I'm one of paying customers), so you can imagine how incredibly daunting it is to hear "it's difficult", "we're understaffed" while being pressed into choices I don't like because team couldn't make half the builds actually work in the content they have created themselves.

Full disclosure - I've rolled a magblade a couple of weeks ago. No, I don't like caster archetypes. No, I don't particularly like dunmers either (sorry, dunmers, I'm sure a lot of you are actually decent folks). I'm making sacrifices and I'm not happy about it; I'll probably give it until it's time to extend the subscription in October to get a feel of things and decide whether it's just a form of masochism, to go in such length just to play characters I don't feel with, to, in turn, being allowed to run the content I've so rashly preordered (and no, I don't mean the exciting experience of Psijic quest line; hopefully I won't do such mistake again).

Mind, I really appreciate the effort reps make to work with ZOS on making things better. But I fear that lack of resources is a very bad justification in this particular case, feels like a slap in the face.

technohic · August 2018

Im not sure throwing bodies at code is the way to fix anything, let alone make changes to mechanics so I wouldn't judge the company by "not having the resources."

I assume a lot on these forums might have built their own PC. If you had 10 people working on it with you, would it actually had helped get it done faster or made the PC better? Only so many hands can be in that case at once, no? I do some programing that is nowhere near the ballpark in complexity of what an MMO would have and if just one other person was working on the same code I was at the same time, I'd be like "Hey. You mind getting out of there?" or "Just let me know when you are done because I have something I need to do."

John_Falstaff · August 2018

@technohic , then there shouldn't have been that "don't have the resources" argument in first place, right? It implies that adding more resources would enable ZOS to make all the changes they want. But if the problem isn't scaling with resources, then the conclusion isn't much more flattering - the team doesn't have enough qualification to do the balancing.

And really, balancing isn't only done after the mess has been made. It would feel logical if the released content would be checked with combat team; after all, they do runs during live in their new content. So, what stopped devs from eating their own dog food and running vet Cloudrest as a team of stamina DK DPSs to realize they're about to release content that only works for half the builds in the game? Either lack of resources, or lack of professionalism.

GawdSB · August 2018

Saturn wrote: »

Does the change to Rune Cage mean that we can expect things like Petrify to become dodgeable as well? I still don't understand the Rune Cage outrage, and I'd be a bit annoyed if DKs were negatively affected by this change as well. I think having a strong counter to dodge-roll spammers is important, since otherwise those builds will become out of control again.

Also, I wish you'd reverse your decision to make Steel Tornado undodgeable. I think it's way too powerful for that. Just look at the vast majority of stam builds right now, they're using it..

I don't actually mind the fact that your active dodgeroll can counter stuns, but my problem lies with the passive dodge that abilities like Evasion gives you. The reason why I think it's bad, is because you don't have to do anything but activate the ability and suddenly you just completely negate the damage of attacks without actively doing anything.

Why are you comparing sorcs and dks? What one needs, is not the same as the other. Terrible argument.

Septimus_Magna · August 2018

How will Rune Cage be dodgeable? Is it going to change to a projectile that players can see coming?

And when is the ‘fix’ for Fossilze coming? I need to wait a couple seconds before I can break-free and dodge roll out of it so my stamina is pretty much done on a magicka build.

TheValar85 · August 2018

in the name of the sorcerers we all disagree about the Wizard riptose and rune cage changes, and we demands it to put it back where they were before this nerf. While other sets have not been adressed on mele classes to get balanced actualy. and also their skills. it is not fun to see an unkillablel DK and only can be killed by 20 people. thats broken. that needs to be fixed. including theri constant reflects with almost no cd and the endless dodge rolls are still exist. Fear bug is still an issue wich needs to be fixed, it cant be dodged nor break out of it. so no more nerfrs for sorcerers in this patch prevent those changes. thank you Gina.

Feanor · August 2018

@Joy_Division

I can see that ZOS is scarce on manpower, that they do have open vacancies especially for coders, and that it’s somehow not easy to find someone capable.

What I don’t understand is why they are so adamant on keeping their mantra of big sweeping changes every three months. If you are already short on available staff, why implement big changes that end up taking even more time because you have to clean up the mess.

Why not do small incremental changes each week that take less time? Take DK for example. When was the last time you saw a DK Standard in PvP? I can’t recall either. So, you take the standard, increase its radius by 3m. Then you see if that helped. And with each week you are nearer and nearer to having useful skills if you do one skill per class each week.

That’s how I would do it, but maybe I’m just not having enough insight into the available staff ZOS has.

Drako_Ei · August 2018

The change to defensive cage is good.. because a sorc can still get a undodgable unblockable CC against DK with spiked armor on (which 90% of DK players use) because of the damage return, by just light attacking or something

maboleth · August 2018

Feanor wrote: »

I can see that ZOS is scarce on manpower, that they do have open vacancies especially for coders, and that it’s somehow not easy to find someone capable.

It's so wrong to assume they lack the manpower based on the vacancies. The game is getting bigger and bigger and require more people to maintenance, plus the new content that is always in the work ahead. The fact is - nobody of us know their plans.

Lets also wait to see all changes in the game...

John_Falstaff · August 2018

maboleth wrote: »

Lets also wait to see all changes in the game...

That's what we're all doing, aren't we. For a long time now, too. And oh the fun changes we get. I'm growing more and more viable by the patch.

I'm sure the trend will continue if we'll be sitting and waiting silently instead of voicing our concerns and pain points. In fact... by now I'm pretty sure the trend will continue no matter what.

Universe · August 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

General

Sorcerer
Dark Magic
Rune Cage: This ability and its morphs can now be dodged.

General
Siege weapon damage and effects will no longer proc item sets.

Item Sets
Durok’s Bane
The 5-piece bonus has been adjusted.

OLD:
5: When you take damage, you apply Major Defile to the attacker for 4 seconds, reducing their healing received and Health Recovery by 30%. This effect can occur once every 1 second.

NEW:
5: When you take damage, you apply Major Defile to the attacker for 4 seconds, reducing their healing received and Health Recovery by 30%. This effect can occur once every 8 seconds per enemy.

Ward of Cyrodiil
The 5-piece bonus has been adjusted.

OLD:
When you deal melee damage, you apply Major Defile to the enemy for 4 seconds, reducing their healing received and Health Recovery by 30%. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

NEW:
When you deal melee damage, you apply Major Defile to the enemy for 3 seconds, reducing their healing received and Health Recovery by 30%. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

Wizard’s Riposte:
The 5-piece bonus has been adjusted.

OLD:
When you take Critical Damage you apply Minor Maim to the enemy for 15 seconds, reducing their damage done by 15%.

NEW:
When you take direct Critical Damage you apply Minor Maim to the enemy for 5 seconds, reducing their damage done by 15%.

Nerfing rune cage was necessary.
Though making it dodgeable will not resolve how effective it is.
Since it has instant cast time and no visual projectile effect, the player won't be able to react in time to dodge.
This change is only making the ability less useful against already dodging targets.

Siege weapons really shouldn't have proc item sets from the beginning, so this change is much welcomed

Durok's Bane was OP and was used by ball groups/farming groups in Cyrodiil.
This is a good change.
No longer they will apply major defile to all players with very high uptime

Ward of Cyrodiil 3 pieces bonus of 15% mounted speed will be missed.
Please consider adding this bonus to other set.
If you are worried that it can give an advantage in the mounted battleground/s, you can always make it so that the bonus will not apply while in this type of location.

I agree the change to Wizard Riposte was needed.
The uptime of Minor Maim was too high.

In conclusion, I see a few fine combat balance changes, but you didn't address many issues, such as:
1) Many item sets are still OP, such as:
a. Sload - The change you made will not be enough. This set will still wreak havoc in PVP.

b. Shield Breaker - This set needs a cooldown of 2-3 seconds to it's 5 pieces set bonus.
Old:
5 items: When you deal damage with a Light or Heavy Attack against a Player with a damage shield, you deal an additional 25-2150 Oblivion Damage to them.
New:
5 items: When you deal damage with a Light or Heavy Attack against a Player with a damage shield, you deal an additional 25-2150 Oblivion Damage to them. This effect can occur once every 2 seconds.

c. Zaan - This set will still be very strong despite the range to break the beam was reduced by 2 meters.
I propose the following change:
Old:
(2 items) When you damage a nearby enemy with a Light or Heavy Attack, you have a 20% chance to create a beam of fire that will connect you to your enemy. The beam deals 3440 Flame Damage every 1 second to your enemy for 5 seconds. Every second, this damage increases by 50%. The beam is broken if the enemy moves 8 meters away from you. This effect can occur every 18 seconds.
New:
(2 items) When you damage a nearby enemy with a Light or Heavy Attack, you have a 8% chance to create a beam of fire that will connect you to your enemy. The beam deals 3440 Flame Damage every 1 second to your enemy for 5 seconds. Every second, this damage increases by 40%. The beam is broken if the enemy moves 8 meters away from you. This effect can occur every 20 seconds. This effect can't be applied to an enemy who is already effected by a zaan beam.
d. Many other item sets, not making this post TLDR.

2) OP abilities or lack of appropriate abilities:
a. Eye of the storm - Since there is no longer AOE caps(long time now), this ability is being spammed by ball groups/farming groups in Cyrodiil.
The ability is the best for farming ap since it is too strong and it stacks.
When I see groups spamming this ability, it makes me believe that pvp is all about this ultimate ability(which is really a shame).
You wanted diversity and not 1 shot ability and forget it, so please make this ultimate ability less strong.
Players shouldn't be farmed due to this OP ability.
Forget the run away and get out of the storm mentality, we need only 2 storms active at a location to give it more counter play.
If many... storms are active at a location = nuclear bomb version of Cyrodiil = nothing survives.
I propose the following change:
Eye of the Storm: Target: Area.
Old:
Create a cataclysmic storm above you that builds for 2 seconds then lays waste to all enemies nearby, dealing [1459 / 1476 / 1491 / 1508] Magic Damage every 1 second for 7 seconds.
New:
Create a cataclysmic storm above you that builds for 2 seconds then lays waste to all enemies nearby, dealing [1459 / 1476 / 1491 / 1508] Magic Damage every 1 second for 7 seconds. There can only be 2 storms active in the same area.

b. Reflective Scale and it's morphs - This ability is too strong and makes the magicka Dragonknight able to reflect far too many projectiles.
If you ever seen a fight between a sorcerer/other class/build which fires projectiles and a magicka Dragonknight, you probably noticed that 90% of projectiles are being reflected.
I suggest the following:
Dragon Fire Scale(morph example) -
Old:
Cost: [4050 / 3960 / 3870 / 3780] Magicka.
Flex your scales, reflecting up to 4 projectiles for 6 seconds. The reflected projectiles deal [20 / 25 / 30 / 35]% additional damage to the attacker.
New:
Cost: [4450 / 4360 / 4270 / 4180] Magicka.
Flex your scales, reflecting up to 4 projectiles for 4 seconds. The reflected projectiles deal [15 / 20 / 25 / 30]% additional damage to the attacker.

c. Steel Tornado - While I understand you wanted to make this ability undodgeable, this resulted in it being too strong, especially in PVP.
It is being spammed by groups in Cyrodiil and it is even became very good for solo gameplay.
I suggest the following:
Old:
Steel Tornado: Radius: 9 meters.
Launch yourself into a lethal spin, dealing [974 / 985 / 995 / 1006] Physical Damage to nearby enemies. Deals up to 100% more damage to enemies based on each percentage of their missing Health.
New:
Steel Tornado: Radius: 7 meters.
Launch yourself into a lethal spin, dealing [974 / 985 / 995 / 1006] Physical Damage to nearby enemies. Deals up to 70% more damage to enemies based on each percentage of their missing Health.

d. Stamina Nightblade lack of defensive ability against projectiles/incoming damage unless using the expensive cloak(which not all want to use, especially for players who want to play in-your-face kind of gameplay, no stealth).

e. Magicka Warden lack of defensive/CC ability/abilities and appropriate damage. Stamina Wardens are super strong, but their fellow magicka Wardens are far behind.

f.list goes on, no TLDR.

3. There are many exploits/bugs which needs to be fixed. I will not detail them all here so others may not exploit them.
A vague hint to one of the locations which a huge exploit needs an urgent fix: Imperial City.
Please fix it and many other exploits.

4. CC immunity and roots immunity are not reliable - There are many occasions which double/triple/more break free is required to break the stun.
one example: Dragonknight roots being applied when petrify was already applied. Breaking free of this stun+roots glitch requires 4 times breaking free and then dodge roll.

5. Cyrodiil performance - How can anyone enjoy PVP if the game client crash so many times, there is very high latency and low fps most of the time ?
The answer is that playing in Cyrodiil is not as enjoyable as it used to be.
It is not fun when reaching a large scale fight area and then the game crash or there is 500+ latency and it's not possible to react in time while in combat.

6. Bombing in Cyrodiil - This is too easy since there is no aoe caps.
Please adjust abilities and make it so that it will be harder to execute.
1/2 players killing 30 players in 1 second is broken pvp in my book.

7. Overland PVE areas - The difficulty is set to easy.
Please add more health to mobs and increase their damage.

8. Bots - Botting is still very common and many bots can be found all over Tamriel.
Negative effects of botting:
a.The bots are killing monsters/npcs that are needed for quests.
b. Make the game less enjoyable for players who adventure and farm by normal means(no botting).
c. The bots masters reduce the cost of items in the game while making huge amount of in-game gold and/or real life currency gains by exploits.
d. Guild masters who buy gold from the bots masters are cheating the system and are able to outbid other guilds when bidding on guild traders. The average bid amounts on most popular guild traders are higher due to bots.
e. etc.
Please add an efficient auto detect+ban system through the code.

9. Other issues - There are other issues. Please solve the above issues first.

You know, there are other ways to improve a game aside from nerfing just about everything that isn't a light attack.

Nerf light attack too!

Well, this is the way I have chosen

Sometimes balance can be achieved by adjusting sets/abilities to be less powerful.
Nerfing is not always a bad thing

You do remember how powerful was streak before introducing the 50% cost increase and the super strong Trainee set.
Zos realized that something must be done so the game will be a little more balanced.

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

3. There are many exploits/bugs which needs to be fixed. I will not detail them all here so others may not exploit them.
A vague hint to one of the locations which a huge exploit needs an urgent fix: Imperial City.
Please fix it and many other exploits.

4. CC immunity and roots immunity are not reliable - There are many occasions which double/triple/more break free is required to break the stun.
one example: Dragonknight roots being applied when petrify was already applied. Breaking free of this stun+roots glitch requires 4 times breaking free and then dodge roll.

It's nice you put these two together, as I'm seeing the double CC bug is slowly turning into an exploit as the same groups are consistently causing double CC using things like javalin + meteor

http://clips.twitch.tv/BoringJoyousChickenBrokeBack

The fix I think needs to occur is a rework that CC immunity is given when a CC impacts you, and a countdown timer only occurs once you break free. Currently there is a window in the break free animation where you're still vulnerable, making it so if you break free even on meteor at the wrong time, both CCs will hit.

Indeed.
Knowingly exploting CC immunity and roots immunity bugs can be considered an exploit.
While it may not be bannable offense it is still a method of cheating the combat system.
Fixing those immunities should be one of ZOS top priorities.

cpuScientist · August 2018

Yo the reps got this patch when it was almost complete. ZOS are working earlier with them this time so we can expect some more changes to be had next patch.

But what we've got this patch is huge. Rune cage looked at, sloads changed, defile and snares brought more to bare. And these set rebalances were all great. Even riposte which I used in my magPlar.

Some classes need alot more work than others. But big picture wise, the really serious offenders, got looked at and changed in positive ways. Maybe not the ways I or others would have wanted, but good changes none the less.

@Joy_Division y'all did a stellar job, reading the meeting notes were a great. Keep it up into next patch. All of you.

technohic · August 2018

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

3. There are many exploits/bugs which needs to be fixed. I will not detail them all here so others may not exploit them.
A vague hint to one of the locations which a huge exploit needs an urgent fix: Imperial City.
Please fix it and many other exploits.

4. CC immunity and roots immunity are not reliable - There are many occasions which double/triple/more break free is required to break the stun.
one example: Dragonknight roots being applied when petrify was already applied. Breaking free of this stun+roots glitch requires 4 times breaking free and then dodge roll.

It's nice you put these two together, as I'm seeing the double CC bug is slowly turning into an exploit as the same groups are consistently causing double CC using things like javalin + meteor

http://clips.twitch.tv/BoringJoyousChickenBrokeBack

The fix I think needs to occur is a rework that CC immunity is given when a CC impacts you, and a countdown timer only occurs once you break free. Currently there is a window in the break free animation where you're still vulnerable, making it so if you break free even on meteor at the wrong time, both CCs will hit.

@ZOS_GinaBruno could we at least look at what is happening in the clip above? Seeing that more often

ZOS_JesC · August 2018

Greetings, we've removed a few nonconstructive comments. This is a friendly reminder to keep comments civil and on topic. Thank you for your understanding.

HeroOfNone · August 2018

technohic wrote: »

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

3. There are many exploits/bugs which needs to be fixed. I will not detail them all here so others may not exploit them.
A vague hint to one of the locations which a huge exploit needs an urgent fix: Imperial City.
Please fix it and many other exploits.

4. CC immunity and roots immunity are not reliable - There are many occasions which double/triple/more break free is required to break the stun.
one example: Dragonknight roots being applied when petrify was already applied. Breaking free of this stun+roots glitch requires 4 times breaking free and then dodge roll.

It's nice you put these two together, as I'm seeing the double CC bug is slowly turning into an exploit as the same groups are consistently causing double CC using things like javalin + meteor

http://clips.twitch.tv/BoringJoyousChickenBrokeBack

The fix I think needs to occur is a rework that CC immunity is given when a CC impacts you, and a countdown timer only occurs once you break free. Currently there is a window in the break free animation where you're still vulnerable, making it so if you break free even on meteor at the wrong time, both CCs will hit.

@ZOS_GinaBruno could we at least look at what is happening in the clip above? Seeing that more often

It's been going on for a while. This clip gives a better look at it

https://clips.twitch.tv/BigHandsomeChoughDatBoi

The issue is the break free animation it seems. The Unbreakable templar javalin though has just been making the situation worse.

HeroOfNone · August 2018

Universe wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

General

Sorcerer
Dark Magic
Rune Cage: This ability and its morphs can now be dodged.

General
Siege weapon damage and effects will no longer proc item sets.

Item Sets
Durok’s Bane
The 5-piece bonus has been adjusted.

OLD:
5: When you take damage, you apply Major Defile to the attacker for 4 seconds, reducing their healing received and Health Recovery by 30%. This effect can occur once every 1 second.

NEW:
5: When you take damage, you apply Major Defile to the attacker for 4 seconds, reducing their healing received and Health Recovery by 30%. This effect can occur once every 8 seconds per enemy.

Ward of Cyrodiil
The 5-piece bonus has been adjusted.

OLD:
When you deal melee damage, you apply Major Defile to the enemy for 4 seconds, reducing their healing received and Health Recovery by 30%. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

NEW:
When you deal melee damage, you apply Major Defile to the enemy for 3 seconds, reducing their healing received and Health Recovery by 30%. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

Wizard’s Riposte:
The 5-piece bonus has been adjusted.

OLD:
When you take Critical Damage you apply Minor Maim to the enemy for 15 seconds, reducing their damage done by 15%.

NEW:
When you take direct Critical Damage you apply Minor Maim to the enemy for 5 seconds, reducing their damage done by 15%.

Nerfing rune cage was necessary.
Though making it dodgeable will not resolve how effective it is.
Since it has instant cast time and no visual projectile effect, the player won't be able to react in time to dodge.
This change is only making the ability less useful against already dodging targets.

Siege weapons really shouldn't have proc item sets from the beginning, so this change is much welcomed

Durok's Bane was OP and was used by ball groups/farming groups in Cyrodiil.
This is a good change.
No longer they will apply major defile to all players with very high uptime

Ward of Cyrodiil 3 pieces bonus of 15% mounted speed will be missed.
Please consider adding this bonus to other set.
If you are worried that it can give an advantage in the mounted battleground/s, you can always make it so that the bonus will not apply while in this type of location.

I agree the change to Wizard Riposte was needed.
The uptime of Minor Maim was too high.

In conclusion, I see a few fine combat balance changes, but you didn't address many issues, such as:
1) Many item sets are still OP, such as:
a. Sload - The change you made will not be enough. This set will still wreak havoc in PVP.

b. Shield Breaker - This set needs a cooldown of 2-3 seconds to it's 5 pieces set bonus.
Old:
5 items: When you deal damage with a Light or Heavy Attack against a Player with a damage shield, you deal an additional 25-2150 Oblivion Damage to them.
New:
5 items: When you deal damage with a Light or Heavy Attack against a Player with a damage shield, you deal an additional 25-2150 Oblivion Damage to them. This effect can occur once every 2 seconds.

c. Zaan - This set will still be very strong despite the range to break the beam was reduced by 2 meters.
I propose the following change:
Old:
(2 items) When you damage a nearby enemy with a Light or Heavy Attack, you have a 20% chance to create a beam of fire that will connect you to your enemy. The beam deals 3440 Flame Damage every 1 second to your enemy for 5 seconds. Every second, this damage increases by 50%. The beam is broken if the enemy moves 8 meters away from you. This effect can occur every 18 seconds.
New:
(2 items) When you damage a nearby enemy with a Light or Heavy Attack, you have a 8% chance to create a beam of fire that will connect you to your enemy. The beam deals 3440 Flame Damage every 1 second to your enemy for 5 seconds. Every second, this damage increases by 40%. The beam is broken if the enemy moves 8 meters away from you. This effect can occur every 20 seconds. This effect can't be applied to an enemy who is already effected by a zaan beam.
d. Many other item sets, not making this post TLDR.

2) OP abilities or lack of appropriate abilities:
a. Eye of the storm - Since there is no longer AOE caps(long time now), this ability is being spammed by ball groups/farming groups in Cyrodiil.
The ability is the best for farming ap since it is too strong and it stacks.
When I see groups spamming this ability, it makes me believe that pvp is all about this ultimate ability(which is really a shame).
You wanted diversity and not 1 shot ability and forget it, so please make this ultimate ability less strong.
Players shouldn't be farmed due to this OP ability.
Forget the run away and get out of the storm mentality, we need only 2 storms active at a location to give it more counter play.
If many... storms are active at a location = nuclear bomb version of Cyrodiil = nothing survives.
I propose the following change:
Eye of the Storm: Target: Area.
Old:
Create a cataclysmic storm above you that builds for 2 seconds then lays waste to all enemies nearby, dealing [1459 / 1476 / 1491 / 1508] Magic Damage every 1 second for 7 seconds.
New:
Create a cataclysmic storm above you that builds for 2 seconds then lays waste to all enemies nearby, dealing [1459 / 1476 / 1491 / 1508] Magic Damage every 1 second for 7 seconds. There can only be 2 storms active in the same area.

b. Reflective Scale and it's morphs - This ability is too strong and makes the magicka Dragonknight able to reflect far too many projectiles.
If you ever seen a fight between a sorcerer/other class/build which fires projectiles and a magicka Dragonknight, you probably noticed that 90% of projectiles are being reflected.
I suggest the following:
Dragon Fire Scale(morph example) -
Old:
Cost: [4050 / 3960 / 3870 / 3780] Magicka.
Flex your scales, reflecting up to 4 projectiles for 6 seconds. The reflected projectiles deal [20 / 25 / 30 / 35]% additional damage to the attacker.
New:
Cost: [4450 / 4360 / 4270 / 4180] Magicka.
Flex your scales, reflecting up to 4 projectiles for 4 seconds. The reflected projectiles deal [15 / 20 / 25 / 30]% additional damage to the attacker.

c. Steel Tornado - While I understand you wanted to make this ability undodgeable, this resulted in it being too strong, especially in PVP.
It is being spammed by groups in Cyrodiil and it is even became very good for solo gameplay.
I suggest the following:
Old:
Steel Tornado: Radius: 9 meters.
Launch yourself into a lethal spin, dealing [974 / 985 / 995 / 1006] Physical Damage to nearby enemies. Deals up to 100% more damage to enemies based on each percentage of their missing Health.
New:
Steel Tornado: Radius: 7 meters.
Launch yourself into a lethal spin, dealing [974 / 985 / 995 / 1006] Physical Damage to nearby enemies. Deals up to 70% more damage to enemies based on each percentage of their missing Health.

d. Stamina Nightblade lack of defensive ability against projectiles/incoming damage unless using the expensive cloak(which not all want to use, especially for players who want to play in-your-face kind of gameplay, no stealth).

e. Magicka Warden lack of defensive/CC ability/abilities and appropriate damage. Stamina Wardens are super strong, but their fellow magicka Wardens are far behind.

f.list goes on, no TLDR.

3. There are many exploits/bugs which needs to be fixed. I will not detail them all here so others may not exploit them.
A vague hint to one of the locations which a huge exploit needs an urgent fix: Imperial City.
Please fix it and many other exploits.

4. CC immunity and roots immunity are not reliable - There are many occasions which double/triple/more break free is required to break the stun.
one example: Dragonknight roots being applied when petrify was already applied. Breaking free of this stun+roots glitch requires 4 times breaking free and then dodge roll.

5. Cyrodiil performance - How can anyone enjoy PVP if the game client crash so many times, there is very high latency and low fps most of the time ?
The answer is that playing in Cyrodiil is not as enjoyable as it used to be.
It is not fun when reaching a large scale fight area and then the game crash or there is 500+ latency and it's not possible to react in time while in combat.

6. Bombing in Cyrodiil - This is too easy since there is no aoe caps.
Please adjust abilities and make it so that it will be harder to execute.
1/2 players killing 30 players in 1 second is broken pvp in my book.

7. Overland PVE areas - The difficulty is set to easy.
Please add more health to mobs and increase their damage.

8. Bots - Botting is still very common and many bots can be found all over Tamriel.
Negative effects of botting:
a.The bots are killing monsters/npcs that are needed for quests.
b. Make the game less enjoyable for players who adventure and farm by normal means(no botting).
c. The bots masters reduce the cost of items in the game while making huge amount of in-game gold and/or real life currency gains by exploits.
d. Guild masters who buy gold from the bots masters are cheating the system and are able to outbid other guilds when bidding on guild traders. The average bid amounts on most popular guild traders are higher due to bots.
e. etc.
Please add an efficient auto detect+ban system through the code.

9. Other issues - There are other issues. Please solve the above issues first.

You know, there are other ways to improve a game aside from nerfing just about everything that isn't a light attack.

Nerf light attack too!

Well, this is the way I have chosen
Sometimes balance can be achieved by adjusting sets/abilities to be less powerful.
Nerfing is not always a bad thing
You do remember how powerful was streak before introducing the 50% cost increase and the super strong Trainee set.
Zos realized that something must be done so the game will be a little more balanced.

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

3. There are many exploits/bugs which needs to be fixed. I will not detail them all here so others may not exploit them.
A vague hint to one of the locations which a huge exploit needs an urgent fix: Imperial City.
Please fix it and many other exploits.

4. CC immunity and roots immunity are not reliable - There are many occasions which double/triple/more break free is required to break the stun.
one example: Dragonknight roots being applied when petrify was already applied. Breaking free of this stun+roots glitch requires 4 times breaking free and then dodge roll.

It's nice you put these two together, as I'm seeing the double CC bug is slowly turning into an exploit as the same groups are consistently causing double CC using things like javalin + meteor

http://clips.twitch.tv/BoringJoyousChickenBrokeBack

The fix I think needs to occur is a rework that CC immunity is given when a CC impacts you, and a countdown timer only occurs once you break free. Currently there is a window in the break free animation where you're still vulnerable, making it so if you break free even on meteor at the wrong time, both CCs will hit.

Indeed.
Knowingly exploting CC immunity and roots immunity bugs can be considered an exploit.
While it may not be bannable offense it is still a method of cheating the combat system.
Fixing those immunities should be one of ZOS top priorities.

Oh, and regarding the bot issue, I highly recommend more folks get the bot scanner 2000 addon. I don't think the issue is ZOS isn't working to remove bots, but they aren't getting the reports because the process is a nightmare.bot scanner makes it easy

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1818-BotScanner2000.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbsiB6tl5xA

Sureshawt · August 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Joy_Division

I just wonder what the Class Reps say about that internally when they talk to the devs. It doesn’t seem that you are getting the „pain points“ through to them. Not your fault though, I know you tried.

We spent a lot of time debating Rune Cage and did not come to a consensus. I would say most of reps said the "dodgeable fix" would really only benefit stamblades. Two of reps said that even for magicka characters, dodge roll was legitimate counterplay. All of us felt what's on LivE currently was something that needed to be changed, but disagreed what to do (though none of us suggested to remove the damage and make it dodgeable). All of us felt the CC break on the skill was in a bad way. None of us felt the Defensive morph needed any adjustment whatsoever.

What we spent a lot of time on was that sorcerers wanted so legit options available to them for CC/offense that wasn't a broken (or overnerfed) Rune Prison. The one thing we did agree on was the change to Crystal Shard was something that satisfied nobody: the Blast morph still isn't competitive and the Frag nerfs have robbed the skill of its appeal in PvE and PvP.

I'm known as a templar, but sorcerer is the by far my second most played class, and I felt the things that annoyed me about the class were communicated to ZoS (PVE sustain is terrible, Crystal Fragment over-nerfed, can't streak over uneven terrain because of the loss of momentum, pigeonholed into a cookie-cutter build for both PvE and PvP morphs, lackluster Charged Atronach morph, Heavy Overload morph is spectacularly bad, stamina sorcs basically only derive Hurricane as an active skill, etc., there are others that I'm not thinking of atm).

I think the issue comes down to resources in that ZOS does not have enough of them to do more than a couple of class related changes per testing cycle. So Rune Prison is getting nerfed but Crystal Shard and those are things ares still on the backburner.

I have always felt and tried to communicate in our meetings is that every player on whatever class should legit have something to look forward to in the next update. It concerns me that this is not the case for Wardens (nothing done) and Sorcerer players (just getting hit with nerfs - call the dodgeable fury a "bug-fix" belies the reality that such a "bug-fix" is still weakening the class with respect to the other 4).

All I know is at least one Rep doesn't PvE and thinks there is no "BiS" in PvP.

My faith in class representatives obviously took a nose dive hearing that

What does that have to do with what I posted?

Your class representative discussion has players that don't know Jack giving opinions as if they are on par with others'.

Aka, if you have a bad player saying (example) frags needs to be nerfed, and a good one saying it doesn't, according to what you said in your post, there would be no conclusion with 1 support and 1 against. - While in reality, the representative that wants the Nerf is a freaking moron.

It means, I know for a fact, subpar players have ZoS ear, I know for a fact player's with less skill are being listened to over more skilled and knowledgeable players

It has to do with what you said in as much we have incompetent people supposedly representing me.

Wtf did the warden rep say to ZoS? Wtf didn't they get anything?

DuskMarine wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Joy_Division

I just wonder what the Class Reps say about that internally when they talk to the devs. It doesn’t seem that you are getting the „pain points“ through to them. Not your fault though, I know you tried.

We spent a lot of time debating Rune Cage and did not come to a consensus. I would say most of reps said the "dodgeable fix" would really only benefit stamblades. Two of reps said that even for magicka characters, dodge roll was legitimate counterplay. All of us felt what's on LivE currently was something that needed to be changed, but disagreed what to do (though none of us suggested to remove the damage and make it dodgeable). All of us felt the CC break on the skill was in a bad way. None of us felt the Defensive morph needed any adjustment whatsoever.

What we spent a lot of time on was that sorcerers wanted so legit options available to them for CC/offense that wasn't a broken (or overnerfed) Rune Prison. The one thing we did agree on was the change to Crystal Shard was something that satisfied nobody: the Blast morph still isn't competitive and the Frag nerfs have robbed the skill of its appeal in PvE and PvP.

I'm known as a templar, but sorcerer is the by far my second most played class, and I felt the things that annoyed me about the class were communicated to ZoS (PVE sustain is terrible, Crystal Fragment over-nerfed, can't streak over uneven terrain because of the loss of momentum, pigeonholed into a cookie-cutter build for both PvE and PvP morphs, lackluster Charged Atronach morph, Heavy Overload morph is spectacularly bad, stamina sorcs basically only derive Hurricane as an active skill, etc., there are others that I'm not thinking of atm).

I think the issue comes down to resources in that ZOS does not have enough of them to do more than a couple of class related changes per testing cycle. So Rune Prison is getting nerfed but Crystal Shard and those are things ares still on the backburner.

I have always felt and tried to communicate in our meetings is that every player on whatever class should legit have something to look forward to in the next update. It concerns me that this is not the case for Wardens (nothing done) and Sorcerer players (just getting hit with nerfs - call the dodgeable fury a "bug-fix" belies the reality that such a "bug-fix" is still weakening the class with respect to the other 4).

All I know is at least one Rep doesn't PvE and thinks there is no "BiS" in PvP.

My faith in class representatives obviously took a nose dive hearing that

there is no bis in pvp at all so no clue where you got that from. people can litterally make anything work in pvp.

Show me your Leaderboard position with "any" gear.

There's always a most efficient, effective, "BiS" armor. It's called math.

Edit: Now if you're saying BiS will vary depending on the characters' build and skill selection, that is true (Bone Pirate won't do well on a mag) however, that's not saying there's no "BiS." That's saying BiS varies (i.e. old school BSW was BiS for DD, or Alkosh being Tank or Kena DD way back in the day - those we're all BiS, just varying on objective) or for PvP Viper Selene Mountain was most certainly BiS on a Stam NB, or like Sload now on any DD

Well it's pretty clear why you are not and should never be a class rep.

Joy_Division · August 2018

Feanor wrote: »

@Joy_Division

I can see that ZOS is scarce on manpower, that they do have open vacancies especially for coders, and that it’s somehow not easy to find someone capable.

What I don’t understand is why they are so adamant on keeping their mantra of big sweeping changes every three months. If you are already short on available staff, why implement big changes that end up taking even more time because you have to clean up the mess.

Why not do small incremental changes each week that take less time? Take DK for example. When was the last time you saw a DK Standard in PvP? I can’t recall either. So, you take the standard, increase its radius by 3m. Then you see if that helped. And with each week you are nearer and nearer to having useful skills if you do one skill per class each week.

That’s how I would do it, but maybe I’m just not having enough insight into the available staff ZOS has.

It's probably best to ask them. They have answered the "why change only ever 3 month" question before on ESO Live and am sure they'd answer that again as it is a relevant question that many people have. From what I understand is less efficient to make constant changes to the Live server, I don't know for sure though.

People may think I'm going out of my way to diminish criticism of ZOS because I'm a rep, but I don't think that fair. I wrote a very specific feedback here criticizing the changes made to Templars, I have flat out admitted Wardens and Sorcerers don't have much at all to look forward to in the next update, and I have maintained the approach on siege is misguided because it absolutely destroys the very people it's supposed to help (inexperienced players not in a "ball group").

All I am trying to say is that the rep program began after much of the stuff for the Werewolf DLC was already worked on. We had some good things changed like defile, snare reduction, and other tweaks. I do agree not enough, but lets see what happens now that the reps and the devs will meet months before the next PTS is even announced. Does that mean we should see stuff related to what people communicated to us, for all the classes, in Update 20? Yes, it should. And, I will agree with the folks who feel left out by the Werewolf DLC that had better happen.

Dracane · August 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Joy_Division

I just wonder what the Class Reps say about that internally when they talk to the devs. It doesn’t seem that you are getting the „pain points“ through to them. Not your fault though, I know you tried.

We spent a lot of time debating Rune Cage and did not come to a consensus. I would say most of reps said the "dodgeable fix" would really only benefit stamblades. Two of reps said that even for magicka characters, dodge roll was legitimate counterplay. All of us felt what's on LivE currently was something that needed to be changed, but disagreed what to do (though none of us suggested to remove the damage and make it dodgeable). All of us felt the CC break on the skill was in a bad way. None of us felt the Defensive morph needed any adjustment whatsoever.

What we spent a lot of time on was that sorcerers wanted so legit options available to them for CC/offense that wasn't a broken (or overnerfed) Rune Prison. The one thing we did agree on was the change to Crystal Shard was something that satisfied nobody: the Blast morph still isn't competitive and the Frag nerfs have robbed the skill of its appeal in PvE and PvP.

I'm known as a templar, but sorcerer is the by far my second most played class, and I felt the things that annoyed me about the class were communicated to ZoS (PVE sustain is terrible, Crystal Fragment over-nerfed, can't streak over uneven terrain because of the loss of momentum, pigeonholed into a cookie-cutter build for both PvE and PvP morphs, lackluster Charged Atronach morph, Heavy Overload morph is spectacularly bad, stamina sorcs basically only derive Hurricane as an active skill, etc., there are others that I'm not thinking of atm).

I think the issue comes down to resources in that ZOS does not have enough of them to do more than a couple of class related changes per testing cycle. So Rune Prison is getting nerfed but Crystal Shard and those are things ares still on the backburner.

I have always felt and tried to communicate in our meetings is that every player on whatever class should legit have something to look forward to in the next update. It concerns me that this is not the case for Wardens (nothing done) and Sorcerer players (just getting hit with nerfs - call the dodgeable fury a "bug-fix" belies the reality that such a "bug-fix" is still weakening the class with respect to the other 4).

All I know is at least one Rep doesn't PvE and thinks there is no "BiS" in PvP.

My faith in class representatives obviously took a nose dive hearing that

What does that have to do with what I posted?

Your class representative discussion has players that don't know Jack giving opinions as if they are on par with others'.

Aka, if you have a bad player saying (example) frags needs to be nerfed, and a good one saying it doesn't, according to what you said in your post, there would be no conclusion with 1 support and 1 against. - While in reality, the representative that wants the Nerf is a freaking moron.

It means, I know for a fact, subpar players have ZoS ear, I know for a fact player's with less skill are being listened to over more skilled and knowledgeable players

It has to do with what you said in as much we have incompetent people supposedly representing me.

Wtf did the warden rep say to ZoS? Wtf didn't they get anything?

Can you quote me where I wrote in my post that one rep said frags needed to be nerfed?

We spent at least 15 minutes in the meeting talking about Wardens. We all said they aren't getting anything this patch. One rep specifically listed 6 or 7 skills that could use quality of life/efficient buffs that would make the class much more fluid to play.

I don't think ZOS has the resources to make all the changes that players - and they - want.

I even said in that, that it was an example. I am speaking about the other things those individuals whom were apart of your discussion have said. The things they have said make me doubt they could have an informed opinion about many aspects of this game. The idea that an individual that is lacking in experience/knowledge is supposed to represent and offer concise and informed opinions to the company is very worrying.

The idea that such an individual's opinion is taken as seriously and equally to say someone such as yourself is also quite worrying.

If one of these people has or had disagreed with certain key components of the game and that's why we don't see such changes, well then that's just horrendous.

But I have no idea exactly what was said during your conversation, all I know is what I've read said publicly on the forums, and that information, combined with yours, is very disheartening

I think you are overestimating the amount of influence this particular person(s) has. People have been overestimating the amount of pull and say the Rep program has had from the start. We have been told time and time again not to offer solutions because we aren't ZOS employees, we aren't paid, it's not "our" game, etc.

We are going to disagree. And it's good that we do because as simple and obvious that so many players are making the issues and problems out there, the reality of the situation is that things are complex and smart people who are independent thinkers are going to come to different conclusions and they ought to be considered even if not adopted.

I totally understand that some people are going to feel like they are left out of this patch. It is not because one or two people have disproportionate amount of influence and are leading ZOS astray. ZOS came to us with most of update 19 already done (the werewolf theme) and devoted the small amount of time and resources they had to trying to alleviate big picture issues that many people agreed needed adjustment (for example defile, snares) and some obvious minor changes they could quickly address (templar Rune Focus, DK wings, for instance). There are people left out, but there are also some good changes in those notes, even if I don't agree with all of them. The reps and the devs are just beginning to have a feel for each other and how to make the process better and more efficient. For the next update, we are going to meet with the Devs way before they put it on PTS and they are already asking for specific class issues.

You are always talking about, how little ressources ZoS has. This means they only have a very few people working on the game and don't make enough money with it anymore in order to sustain the game for much longer ?

Priyasekarssk · August 2018

Xael wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Sorcerer
Dark Magic
Rune Cage: This ability and its morphs can now be dodged.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel
I don't even...

How about we get an npc for Cyrodiil that we can use to respec our skill points?

Considering this change is very important for PvPers and the Cyrodiil experience has only gotten worse over the past 4 years (I know right? Wow...). Most people for some reason play on Vivec and we don't need to sit in queue for 2 hours because we wanted to change a morph. Then again some of us will likely client crash and have to sit in queue anyway... at least give us this.

Hehe. I very well know this will happen to please NBs. NB snipers will snipe, cloak and dodge entire day. Magicka NBs as well.
I abandoned magic sorc long time ago. Good luck in your effort. I believe you are wasting your time.