How to fix Deathmatch without nerfing Mages Wrath/Endless Fury

callen4492 · July 2018

Deathmatch used to be my favorite gametype but right now it’s broken due to the magsorc skill Endless Fury. It’s way too easy to steal kills with that ability because it’s ranged and it is programmed to go off as soon as the opponent hits execute range. Two-thirds of players in deathmatch are magsorcs and it’s tough to compete as any other class (especially my main, a mag dk). I think anyone who has played deathmatch lately know that magsorcs are dominating big-time. I don’t think the developers or the community want magsorcs to dominate this beloved gametype as they are. No need to go on further. However, I don’t think the endless fury skill needs a nerf. It is a class defining skill which is essential to the identity of magsorc high-burst killers. The dodge nerf the execute is getting is enough. (I was astonished to discover that the execute was ever undodgeable.) MY PROPOSITION.

To put it shortly, three “Enemy Stole your Kill’s” should count toward your team’s score the same as one kill. This means that you’re rewarded more for getting the final damage on an enemy but you’re not left totally empty-handed by all those dirty magsorcs. However, since I have no idea how the “Enemy Stole Your Kill” mechanic works, I propose that you should only get a “Stolen Kill” tally if on the death recap, you did 50% or more of the damage to your opponent but somehow, somebody else got the final hit. That way, two people could not get a “Stolen Kill” from one enemy’s death, yet, you would still be rewarded, if less, for dealing most of the damage to an enemy.

This mechanic should not be difficult for Zenimax to implement sice they already have a function for indicating stolen kills. It may just need to be adjusted. Also, the final score to win would also probably need to be adjusted upward slightly to account for the extra scores.

What do you think? By the way, if you main a magsorc, you’re opinion isn’t welcome here...Unless you agree with me.

Bobleeswaggen · July 2018

I like this idea. Allows any adjustements made to endless fury to made outside of it's (probably) most overpowered usage. Also addresses what is a questionable mechanic in death match which is very directed and intentional kill stealing. Zenimax has made it a point that total contribution to a kill is more significant than the final bit of damage elsewhere, why not lean in that direction here? As the unofficial class rep for stamdk (since apparently we don't have one) I second this idea.

ecru · July 2018

two teams solves this problem too

:thinking:

Millz · July 2018

Could just rework the skill to make it more up front dmg and remove the proc dmg

BNOC · July 2018

ecru wrote: »

two teams solves this problem too

:thinking:

Vapirko · July 2018

But the same goes for the multitude of people running around with Sloads and Skoria or Zaan. Or people spamming spin to win. BGs is just kind of a mess. There’s just way too much free damage.

callen4492 · July 2018

ecru wrote: »

two teams solves this problem too

:thinking:

That would have been a smart move from the beginning. I don’t think Zos’ devs are very insightful when it comes to developing balanced content for PvP. Aside from not balancing armor sets well, the mechanics of the different BG’s make it seem like they don’t understand what makes for good, balanced competition. It’s almost as if they care about all of their PvP content going along with the ESO storyline theme more than they care about creating a stage for balanced team gameplay. Why else besides the fact that there are three alliances would they make BG’s three teams? But hindsight is 20/20. I can imagine it would be a much larger task for the devs at Zenimax to change the maps and gametypes to suit two teams instead of three than it would for them to change how the deathmatch score works. Maybe not, I don’t know. I would LOVE to see this change though. It would bastly improve Deathmatch and Capture the Relic and Crazy King/Domination. Chaosball is pretty good with 3 teams but that’s about it.

callen4492 · July 2018

Millz wrote: »

Could just rework the skill to make it more up front dmg and remove the proc dmg[/quote

But that would change the entire purpose of the skill! In other PvP content, it doesn’t seem that mages wrath dominates like it does now in Deathmatch. It’s a strong skill (probably the best execute in game) but I wouldn’t necessarily say it needs a nerf or change. If it gets nerfed or even changed it becomes a useless skill in other PvP content where right now it’s fairly balanced.

Thogard · July 2018

Whoever triggers the endless fury should get kill credit. Most addons already track this so it would be easy to implement. Usually the sorc triggers their own endless fury proc with the initial DD element of the endless fury application, so any actual kills that the sorc earned would still go to the sorc. (Remember that it’s a 4s “debuff” where the target takes dmg when it’s put on and again when it procs to execute). But the sorcs that throw it on a target and then walk away as another team brings the target down would no longer get credit.

Or they could make it so that the execute portio. of endless fury can only be procced by damage from your own team / alliance. That would also fix it.

callen4492 · July 2018

Vapirko wrote: »

But the same goes for the multitude of people running around with Sloads and Skoria or Zaan. Or people spamming spin to win. BGs is just kind of a mess. There’s just way too much free damage.

I agree, Battlegrounds is kind of a mess but I disagree that it is because of certain sets or skills that this is the case. IT SOLELY HAS TO DO WITH THE MECHANICS OF BG’s THEMSELVES. Changing the way the deathmatch score system works to not only reward the final bit of damage but also the person who got them on low health in the first place fixes the problem for all of of those skills, not just Mages Wrath. I just used mages wrath because it is by far, the most prevalent and high powered skill being abused in deathmatch. YES, THIS WOULD ALSO FIX THIS PROBLEM with spin-to-win, zaan, skoria, sloads and any other skill/set you can think of.

Zaan is not an issue by the way. I’ve used it (not very impressed so I changed) and it’s been used against me and it’s easy to counter.

callen4492 · July 2018

Thogard wrote: »

Whoever triggers the endless fury should get kill credit. Most addons already track this so it would be easy to implement. Usually the sorc triggers their own endless fury proc with the initial DD element of the endless fury application, so any actual kills that the sorc earned would still go to the sorc. (Remember that it’s a 4s “debuff” where the target takes dmg when it’s put on and again when it procs to execute). But the sorcs that throw it on a target and then walk away as another team brings the target down would no longer get credit.

Or they could make it so that the execute portion of endless fury can only be procced by damage from your own team / alliance. That would also fix it.

I think this is a good idea, especially the last part. That wouldn’t fix the problem with all the other forms of kill-stealing though.

ReName · July 2018

spin to win is much worst then mage execute ad the monument

Strider__Roshin · July 2018

ReName wrote: »

spin to win is much worst then mage execute ad the monument

Nope.

Strider__Roshin · July 2018

Mage's Fury needs to be reworked entirely. A class with so much burst should not have an auto-kill. Can you imagine how OP it would be if Nightblades had this? They shouldn't have this, and neither should sorcs.

Strider__Roshin · July 2018

Millz wrote: »

Could just rework the skill to make it more up front dmg and remove the proc dmg

This.

Merlin13KAGL · July 2018

How about max damage gets the kill, not just whoever gets the killing blow?

They could add achieves and medal for KB's separately.

I've always found it asinine that someone can do 99% of the damage, but whoever tags the last 1% gets the credit.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · July 2018

Thogard wrote: »

Whoever triggers the endless fury should get kill credit. Most addons already track this so it would be easy to implement. Usually the sorc triggers their own endless fury proc with the initial DD element of the endless fury application, so any actual kills that the sorc earned would still go to the sorc. (Remember that it’s a 4s “debuff” where the target takes dmg when it’s put on and again when it procs to execute). But the sorcs that throw it on a target and then walk away as another team brings the target down would no longer get credit.

Or they could make it so that the execute portio. of endless fury can only be procced by damage from your own team / alliance. That would also fix it.

Excellent solution. This mag Sorc approves. My execute should be able to get me kills when I line it up with a good burst combo, but I should not lead a death match in KBs with a one button spam.

Much better plan than redesigning a unique skill that has been around since launch because BGs overvalue a KB.

Amdar_Godkiller · July 2018

Personally, I think the "Rune Cage fix" is actually to nerf mage's wrath/endless fury. by removing the final proc from the game.

Anethum · July 2018

This skill and rune cage should take huge adjustments.
If to stay at it's design [...] then window should be reduced to 2 seconds, and can be procced only on own sorc's damage at this target. If just debuff at target - no proc.
Rune cage - less duration - like 3 seconds max and no damage at the end. Current version is absolutly dumb.

@ZOS_GinaBruno please take attention to these sorc's skills. they have high priority with it's fluence to gameplay

DeadlyRecluse · July 2018

1 point for most damage done in the past 10 seconds or so to a dead player.

1 point for killing blow.

How it should have been from the beginning. Mages Wrath is the most egregious kill steal skill, but really any execute and a team willing to cheese works fine.

I've "carried" a deathmatch game just by staying at range/behind terrain and ticking people with radiant destruction, hardly the most effective execute in the game at the moment.

damtotb16_ESO · July 2018

Easy fix, kill should be administered to someone that does the most damage to enemy player. So many times I had a situation where I brought someone to 10% and some ranged 1 button clicker stole my kill instantly. ZOS needs change this absurd mechanics I don't mind the endless furry stays as it is

Mureel · July 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

How about max damage gets the kill, not just whoever gets the killing blow?

They could add achieves and medal for KB's separately.

I've always found it asinine that someone can do 99% of the damage, but whoever tags the last 1% gets the credit.

As sorc, I agree with this! It IS stupid!

At the same time though, I actually like it when a teammate can impale or ele fury and 'steal' my kill sometimes- because when there are really tanky chars, I can be out of magicka after a longer fight, and they have that stubborn last sliver of health left xD

Ragnarock41 · July 2018

No this is a bad idea.

Kill steling is a part of deathmatch game mode, getting the killing blow is what matters and outside of the magsorc execute, every other class works just fine, but the very delayed sorc execute results in EZ kill steals with no real effort.

and the mage's wrath dodge roll fix was FIX, not a nerf.