High King Alinor? Quote from Mannimarco

NewbieOKS · June 2018

Hi all

Can someone explain who/what reference is Mannimarco refer to "High King Alinor"?

Excerpt from Mannimarco:

Mannimarco, God of Worms, the Necromancers:

“The Three Thieves of Morrowind could tell you where they were. So could the High King of Alinor, who was the one who broke it in the first place. There are others on this earth that could, too: Ysmir, Pelinal, Arnand the Fox or should I say Arctus? The Last Dwarf would talk, if they would let him. As for myself, I was here and there and here again, like the rest of the mortals during the Dragon Break. How do you think I learned my mystery? The Maruhkati Selectives showed us all the glories of the Dawn so that we might learn, simply: as above, so below.”

I tried to search the forum/internet for details but not sure. Is there any additional lore/information from the Summerset chapter perhaps?

Appreciate your time to answer or comment

Thanks

Ajaxandriel · July 2018

NewbieOKS wrote: »

Can someone explain who/what reference is Mannimarco refer to "High King Alinor"?

The High King of Alinor is merely the monarch of Alinor which is the "suzerain" city of Summerset, so to some extent, saying "the high king of Alinor" is like saying "the high king of Summerset"... It was Hidellith before Ayrenn, at ESO time.
No idea of who it was during the Alessian thing though.

Tatanko wrote: »

LMar wrote: »

He is referencing the old Dragon Break as an example of Men managing to create a catastrophic event. Not that a Dragon Break is happening now, but rather another catastrophic event and that Altmer have to step in to save the world once again

Which is interesting, because it is phrased in such a way that pins the blame for the Planemeld on men. Mannimarco's treachery is ultimately the cause of the Planemeld, but it could be said that men are responsible since the other four Companions (a Nord, a Redguard, and two Imperials) are all men and committed the folly of playing with forces greater than themselves in an attempt to make Varen Aquilarious into a "Dragonborn".

A Dragon Break is seemingly happening with the Soulburst and the Planemeld, since the events in game display some level of "in-universe inconsistencies", first of them being the whole Vestige story (as player-characters)

- "a dragon break" as a concept of time warping & history self-retconning, not "The Dragon Break" itself that occurred way before and was due to the Marukhati (spelled "Maruhkati" there, well....) trying and retconning Auri-El into Akatosh for "human-is-master-race" purposes. But the text you quote is referring to that Marukhati event (not the one in TES:Daggerfall that is in our future, nor the one we witness in ESO)

Indeed it's hard to tell how the high king of the Altmer could be part of this.
Maybe it's implying the Altmer provoqued the Alessian (by insisting about Auri-El primacy over the cyrodiils, as a ayleid god), having them to react by "re-writing" the god as a dragon/mannish god.

That would explain that Mannimarco (as an enemy of Auri-El's law) and his minions befriended with the Marukhati (which are Divine extremists, not necromancers at all) : one common enemy.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · June 2018

Alinor is the capital of Summerset, and the Fourth Era Thalmor end up renaming all of Summerset to Alinor:

During the crisis, the Crystal Tower was forced to give the Thalmor greater power and authority. Their efforts almost certainly saved Summerset Isle from being overrun. They capitalized on their success to seize total control in 4E 22. They renamed the nation Alinor, which hearkens back to an earlier age before the ascendency [sic] of man. Most people outside of the Aldmeri Dominion still call it Summerset Isle, either out of peevishness or ignorance.

Does that help?

Shadow_Akula · June 2018

Most likely Queen Ayrenn’s father, King Hidellith who was on the throne before her, and whose passing in 2e 580 allowed her to ascend to the Elven throne

Anacario · June 2018

This passage is referencing the Middle Dawn, an event that happened in the First Era long before ESO. Not sure if we know who that High King was, I guess it's possible it was Ayrenn's father. I don't know why Mannimarco blames the High King of Alinor, when it was an Alessian Akatosh cult that caused the event in the first place.

VaranisArano · June 2018

Given that the lore book you reference is talking about the Dragon Break in Daggerfall, it may also be referring to King Reman Karoodil of Firsthold, who marries Morgiah as part of Morgiah's deal with Mannimarco in Daggerfall. Admittedly, that's Firsthold on Auridon, not Alinor itself. But I don't think we have any details about a king of Alinor having anything to do with the plot of Daggerfall otherwise.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Morgiah
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Karoodil#Reman_Karoodil
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Where_Were_You_..._Dragon_Broke

casparian · June 2018

Keep in mind that the event Mannimarco is reffering to the King of Alinor being able to tell us about -- the Dragon Break called the Middle Dawn, which happened in the late 1st Era -- takes place hundreds of years before the events of ESO (in the sense that a Dragon Break can be said to "take place" at a definite time period at all). We don't know exactly who ruled the High Elves then, or exactly what Altmer political arrangements were like then, so it's hard to say with precision who Mannimarco is talking about.

LMar · June 2018

Anacario wrote: »

This passage is referencing the Middle Dawn, an event that happened in the First Era long before ESO. Not sure if we know who that High King was, I guess it's possible it was Ayrenn's father. I don't know why Mannimarco blames the High King of Alinor, when it was an Alessian Akatosh cult that caused the event in the first place.

Here's your answer. The dragon break they refer to was long before the events of ESO and took place for thousand of years (unless they just miscounted, which is a possibility)

NewbieOKS · June 2018

Ok thanks for the comments and answers.

I was thinking myself of a title, because it is not common in Altmer (as far as I understand and know) for a “high king” position.

I mean as Mannimarco himself who said this, it seems he already exist since the First Era (since the event of the Middle Dawn?)

As for myself, I was here and there and here again, like the rest of the mortals during the Dragon Break. How do you think I learned my mystery?

LMar · June 2018

Yeah Mannimarco was born sometime in the 1st Era

starkerealm · June 2018

casparian wrote: »

...(in the sense that a Dragon Break can be said to "take place" at a definite time period at all).

It is also possible that said, "high king," was another fluctuating element in said Dragon Break, and thus impossible to identify after the fact.

NewbieOKS · July 2018

Anacario wrote: »

This passage is referencing the Middle Dawn, an event that happened in the First Era long before ESO. Not sure if we know who that High King was, I guess it's possible it was Ayrenn's father. I don't know why Mannimarco blames the High King of Alinor, when it was an Alessian Akatosh cult that caused the event in the first place.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Given that the lore book you reference is talking about the Dragon Break in Daggerfall, it may also be referring to King Reman Karoodil of Firsthold, who marries Morgiah as part of Morgiah's deal with Mannimarco in Daggerfall. Admittedly, that's Firsthold on Auridon, not Alinor itself. But I don't think we have any details about a king of Alinor having anything to do with the plot of Daggerfall otherwise.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Morgiah
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Karoodil#Reman_Karoodil
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Where_Were_You_..._Dragon_Broke

starkerealm wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

...(in the sense that a Dragon Break can be said to "take place" at a definite time period at all).

It is also possible that said, "high king," was another fluctuating element in said Dragon Break, and thus impossible to identify after the fact.

LMar wrote: »

Anacario wrote: »

This passage is referencing the Middle Dawn, an event that happened in the First Era long before ESO. Not sure if we know who that High King was, I guess it's possible it was Ayrenn's father. I don't know why Mannimarco blames the High King of Alinor, when it was an Alessian Akatosh cult that caused the event in the first place.

Here's your answer. The dragon break they refer to was long before the events of ESO and took place for thousand of years (unless they just miscounted, which is a possibility)

casparian wrote: »

Keep in mind that the event Mannimarco is reffering to the King of Alinor being able to tell us about -- the Dragon Break called the Middle Dawn, which happened in the late 1st Era -- takes place hundreds of years before the events of ESO (in the sense that a Dragon Break can be said to "take place" at a definite time period at all). We don't know exactly who ruled the High Elves then, or exactly what Altmer political arrangements were like then, so it's hard to say with precision who Mannimarco is talking about.

@Anacario @VaranisArano @starkerealm @LMar @casparian

Actually what makes me curious, is the Soulburst event in ESO (2nd era) can be considered also as a Dragon Break. Is it true?

Below is a reference I got randomly when I was doing my quests.

LMar · July 2018

He is referencing the old Dragon Break as an example of Men managing to create a catastrophic event. Not that a Dragon Break is happening now, but rather another catastrophic event and that Altmer have to step in to save the world once again

We aren't sure if ESO is happening during a Dragon Break but the Soulburst is a different event than one. One could be happening due to the Soilburst too but they are two different things

Sizaansil · July 2018

Greetings, my knowledge of the lore is limited but I'll try to help.

I don't think it's been mentionned here but a common belief is that "Auriel" or "soon to become Auriel" was the High King of Alinor sometime during the Merethic Era. He then used Crystal Tower to leave the Mortal Plane / ascend into godhood thus creating a Dragon Break. As far as I know this Break was the first one chronologially which would explain :

NewbieOKS wrote: »

“So could the High King of Alinor, who was the one who broke it in the first place.

Some evidence on this can be found in this book : en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Varieties_of_Faith:_The_High_Elves
"He then ascended to heaven in full observance of his followers so that they might learn the steps needed to escape the mortal plane"

There's a little bit more here : https://reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/87m5qc/wasis_auriel_a_god_or_a_mortal_king/

Hopefully someone can add onto this.

Edit : english isn't my first language so I had to change one word. Sorry for the potential mistakes.

Tatanko · July 2018

LMar wrote: »

He is referencing the old Dragon Break as an example of Men managing to create a catastrophic event. Not that a Dragon Break is happening now, but rather another catastrophic event and that Altmer have to step in to save the world once again

Which is interesting, because it is phrased in such a way that pins the blame for the Planemeld on men. Mannimarco's treachery is ultimately the cause of the Planemeld, but it could be said that men are responsible since the other four Companions (a Nord, a Redguard, and two Imperials) are all men and committed the folly of playing with forces greater than themselves in an attempt to make Varen Aquilarious into a "Dragonborn".

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High King Alinor? Quote from Mannimarco

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