Imza wrote: »

I believe that this originates from when it was discovered that you could get bites from NPC's..... specific ppl farmed those NPC's and killed them holding the general public to ransom on bites.... and charging a lot of gold for them...

hence the strong reaction now...

Yep, I remember back at launch people were pay up to 50k gold for bites, and this was when you were still only getting like 1 or 2 gold pieces on mobs at most, with no daily crafting etc. That would probably be the same as 1,000,000 gold today.

As you said people would just be Aholes, or some would RP as Argent Dawn and kill the NPCs. They wouldn't kill the NPCs for x amount of gold. However, just like the blue crafting books (which use to be like 5k gold) there are so many floating around now you can't give away a bite some days.

Aisle9 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Having been scammed out of gold when I was more of a noob looking for a bite I certainly look down on anyone charging for bites. It's not like you can get bitten and give gold simultaneously so it's always a risk with a stranger, which is usually the only ones available to bite you.

Unless you ask in guild chat.

Or friend list.

Or wait for the NPC at the spawn location.

Or buy it in the crown store...

Yeah, other than that, it's your only choice.

Didn't know usually had the same meaning of only. I guess you learn something every day.

I have no idea how you came to that conclusion, but no. I'm not a native English speaker, but I'm fairly sure it's inaccurate. A second opinion may be needed, though.

According to the Merriam-Webster Usually means:
- according to the usual or ordinary course of things
- most often
- as a rule

while Only means:
- alone in a class or category

Then, again, when you combine them in a sentence like "it's usually the only choice" it might cause confusion.

Again, my advice is to look for a second opinion, I'm not a native speaker, they may have the same meaning in some context.

Hope this clarifies.
Have a nice day.

I edited my post for clarity. You're really defensive about this subject. Just how much do you charge and how often have you been rebuffed for demanding payment for a bite? I assure you I wasn't one of them.

To answer your first question [ implied ], I'm defensive when I'm arguing against people that I perceive as dishonest, for using ad hominem arguments, rather than debate the my actual argument.

I know it's not the best way to deal with it, but I'm Italian, I'm loud and emotional, sue me.

To answer your second question:

Aisle9 wrote: »

[..]I don't bite anyone who's not in one of the guilds I'm in, regardless of how much they are willing to pay, because I offer it for free to guild members. If I give it to a stranger I might not have it for a guildie.[..]

Page 2, follow the link.



As for your original post (edited), if you're not in a guild you miss out on a lot of social advantages of a social game, including getting stuff for free, but sure, let's say you have reasons to not be a member of one.

My original argument was:

You get what you find. If you don't like the deal you're proposed, you are free to refuse the transaction and look for a better deal. If you can't be bothered/don't have time to look or wait for someone giving it away for free, you pay the premium.

At no point in time you are entitled to one, nor is within your right to belittle people offering it for money, nor is acceptable for you to bully someone into giving it up for free, if they don't want to, which is a direct response to the OP.

I'm using You in a conversational manner to define a hypothetical player looking for a bite, not you specifically.


Hope this clarifies.
Have a nice day.

Fair enough, though not a single thing I posted was false, nor was there an hint of an ad hominem attack. I'm aware of the benefits of being in a guild, though as I stated my experience was when I was new to the game and guildmates weren't always available during my playing time. My issue was with the scammers that charge and run away, not with individuals who choose to charge, let me make that clear.

My original post was again from a personal perspective, nothing more nothing less.

Definition of ad hominem
1 : appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect

an ad hominem argument

2 : marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made

made an ad hominem personal attack on his rival

e.g. :

Sevn wrote: »

I edited my post for clarity. You're really defensive about this subject. Just how much do you charge and how often have you been rebuffed for demanding payment for a bite? I assure you I wasn't one of them.

Hope this clarifies.
Have a nice day.

I was referring to my original post in which you felt the need to focus on a single word to sarcastically scold me on the many ways to obtain a bite. Again, as a new player back then I felt I had little options available to me. My post was from a new player perspective, not all of us started eso knowing every detail as you so clearly seemingly did.

Sue me for being ignorant as a noob, not knowing about guilds, not knowing how the crown store worked and watching other players slaughter npc's in front of me and then scamming me out of my little bit of gold for a bite after waiting for days for the npc's to respawn, over and over.

But by all means stay on your high horse, I'm sure you knew it all when you first started or did the research to know all of your available options, some of us like to play blindly and you live and learn with the results, good or bad. Some of us like to inform new players when they are being taken advantage of instead of blaming them for not knowing, and yes it is very easy to be taken advantage of as a new player.

It was an assumption from your aggressive responses to multiple posters scolding players who look down on charging. Nothing more, nothing less.


Thanks for the clarification.
Indeed I will.

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Imza wrote: »

I believe that this originates from when it was discovered that you could get bites from NPC's..... specific ppl farmed those NPC's and killed them holding the general public to ransom on bites.... and charging a lot of gold for them...

hence the strong reaction now...

Yep, I remember back at launch people were pay up to 50k gold for bites, and this was when you were still only getting like 1 or 2 gold pieces on mobs at most, with no daily crafting etc. That would probably be the same as 1,000,000 gold today.

As you said people would just be Aholes, or some would RP as Argent Dawn and kill the NPCs. They wouldn't kill the NPCs for x amount of gold. However, just like the blue crafting books (which use to be like 5k gold) there are so many floating around now you can't give away a bite some days.

I remember this. Made me more determined to be infected by npc spawns. I still prefer hunting down spawns. But I go to the shrine and just bite whoever is there for free.

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

The "value" of a bite is such a paltry sum that I can't imagine anyone who has played for more than a few weeks caring about getting paid for it.

...but on the other hand, I don't bite randoms asking in zone. Just guildies or anyone trolling around the shrines if I'm passing them organicially with a bite up.

Part of the issue is that, back at launch, 10k was a lot of money. There were some changes in the first year that increased the in game wealth dramatically.

EDIT: To put things in context, the 40k bites back at launch would be roughly equivalent to about 500k-800k today. Combine this with that at launch, Vampires were comically broken in PvP 1vXing. There was even an incident where two Pact vampires effectively locked down Daggerfall's access to Cyrodiil for an extended period of time.

So you had players charging astronomical amounts, but they were also controlling the supply by killing off the infection spawns, and then charging for the bites. Their racket didn't last long, as ZOS started introducing random spawn times to the mix shortly after. But, the social legacy lives on years after the original events are mostly forgotten.

Sevn wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Having been scammed out of gold when I was more of a noob looking for a bite I certainly look down on anyone charging for bites. It's not like you can get bitten and give gold simultaneously so it's always a risk with a stranger, which is usually the only ones available to bite you.

Unless you ask in guild chat.

Or friend list.

Or wait for the NPC at the spawn location.

Or buy it in the crown store...

Yeah, other than that, it's your only choice.

Didn't know usually had the same meaning of only. I guess you learn something every day.

I have no idea how you came to that conclusion, but no. I'm not a native English speaker, but I'm fairly sure it's inaccurate. A second opinion may be needed, though.

According to the Merriam-Webster Usually means:
- according to the usual or ordinary course of things
- most often
- as a rule

while Only means:
- alone in a class or category

Then, again, when you combine them in a sentence like "it's usually the only choice" it might cause confusion.

Again, my advice is to look for a second opinion, I'm not a native speaker, they may have the same meaning in some context.

Hope this clarifies.
Have a nice day.

I edited my post for clarity. You're really defensive about this subject. Just how much do you charge and how often have you been rebuffed for demanding payment for a bite? I assure you I wasn't one of them.

To answer your first question [ implied ], I'm defensive when I'm arguing against people that I perceive as dishonest, for using ad hominem arguments, rather than debate the my actual argument.

I know it's not the best way to deal with it, but I'm Italian, I'm loud and emotional, sue me.

To answer your second question:

Aisle9 wrote: »

[..]I don't bite anyone who's not in one of the guilds I'm in, regardless of how much they are willing to pay, because I offer it for free to guild members. If I give it to a stranger I might not have it for a guildie.[..]

Page 2, follow the link.



As for your original post (edited), if you're not in a guild you miss out on a lot of social advantages of a social game, including getting stuff for free, but sure, let's say you have reasons to not be a member of one.

My original argument was:

You get what you find. If you don't like the deal you're proposed, you are free to refuse the transaction and look for a better deal. If you can't be bothered/don't have time to look or wait for someone giving it away for free, you pay the premium.

At no point in time you are entitled to one, nor is within your right to belittle people offering it for money, nor is acceptable for you to bully someone into giving it up for free, if they don't want to, which is a direct response to the OP.

I'm using You in a conversational manner to define a hypothetical player looking for a bite, not you specifically.


Hope this clarifies.
Have a nice day.

Fair enough, though not a single thing I posted was false, nor was there an hint of an ad hominem attack. I'm aware of the benefits of being in a guild, though as I stated my experience was when I was new to the game and guildmates weren't always available during my playing time. My issue was with the scammers that charge and run away, not with individuals who choose to charge, let me make that clear.

My original post was again from a personal perspective, nothing more nothing less.

Definition of ad hominem
1 : appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect

an ad hominem argument

2 : marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made

made an ad hominem personal attack on his rival

e.g. :

Sevn wrote: »

I edited my post for clarity. You're really defensive about this subject. Just how much do you charge and how often have you been rebuffed for demanding payment for a bite? I assure you I wasn't one of them.

Hope this clarifies.
Have a nice day.

I was referring to my original post in which you felt the need to focus on a single word to sarcastically scold me on the many ways to obtain a bite. Again, as a new player back then I felt I had little options available to me. My post was from a new player perspective, not all of us started eso knowing every detail as you so clearly seemingly did.

Sue me for being ignorant as a noob, not knowing about guilds, not knowing how the crown store worked and watching other players slaughter npc's in front of me and then scamming me out of my little bit of gold for a bite after waiting for days for the npc's to respawn, over and over.

But by all means stay on your high horse, I'm sure you knew it all when you first started or did the research to know all of your available options, some of us like to play blindly and you live and learn with the results, good or bad. Some of us like to inform new players when they are being taken advantage of instead of blaming them for not knowing, and yes it is very easy to be taken advantage of as a new player.

It was an assumption from your aggressive responses to multiple posters scolding players who look down on charging. Nothing more, nothing less.


Thanks for the clarification.
Indeed I will.

Here's the problem with your reasoning:

As a new player I didn't know much either. True I had friends that already played the game, but they were not very active, so I had to learn a number of things on my own, like, for instance what that Sanies Lupinus thing was and why I had it in my character window, and how did I get it while playing blindly (doing quests and such).

I main a magicka nightblade, so I wasn't interested in playing a werewolf, I asked people in chat how to get rid of it, and then I did.

Again, would be awesome if you could stop assuming (erroneously) things about me. Or do... it's kind of entertaining to guess what else you can get wrong.

The second time it happened, on my magicka sorcerer, I decided to level it up, as I wasn't interested in using it, but neither was I interested in becoming a vampire, so my magicka sorcerer is still, to this day, a werewolf (sick heals btw), with bloodmoon, so that I can bite someone if needed.

Then, when being a vampire was the hot thing in PvP I opened my browser, looked up how to become a vampire in ESO, and got the location of the bloodfiends spawn. Took me a couple tries, and eventually got it.

I wasn't in a guild either, so I couldn't ask there.

I eventually joined and left guilds, until I found the one I'm in now, and have access to many guildmates with available bites, willing to stop what they're doing to give me a bite, and I provide the same service.

As you can see, I didn't know everything either, but from the perspective of a new player, that doesn't know anything, I was bitten twice while not even looking for it, and once when I actively went to look for it, just by using a little bit of Google-fu.

Now, to address your point, I answered sarcastically, because multiple users already corroborated my statement (previously made) that "It's not happening anymore, or at least not that often, so getting bites from NPCs is easier than it used to" to address the point that people were still camping the spawn points to control the market.

I answered sarcastically, because I felt as your reply was, at best, lazy, in re-hashing a concept that multiple users already debunked.

As for the subsequent replies, well, I made that point already, but I'm happy to give further clarification if needed.

Also, I don't own a horse, and I only do research when I feel I need information about something that is being offered in exchange for money, and what my alternatives are to save the few hard earned shekels I posses. You should try that sometimes.

Hope this helps.
Have a nice day.

Here's a cat riding a unicorn

Imza wrote: »

I believe that this originates from when it was discovered that you could get bites from NPC's..... specific ppl farmed those NPC's and killed them holding the general public to ransom on bites.... and charging a lot of gold for them...

hence the strong reaction now...

I was there and this is exactly right. On my first 2 characters I waited endlessly for the special spawns to appear so I could get both the vampire and werewolf bites. Made friends of groups of people hanging out doing the same thing. And EVERY TIME they spawned there were people there rushing to kill them so no one could get bit, usually vampires or werewolves themselves. And charged outrageous amounts for bites. These griefers were atrocious and were so hated that now their infamy remains in the hatred shown to nearly anyone who tries to charge for a bite.

Imagine you could only become a Warden by someone who was already a Warden bestowing the "gift" upon you. And you had to pay some arsehat for the privilege. It's just rude.

Imza wrote: »

I believe that this originates from when it was discovered that you could get bites from NPC's..... specific ppl farmed those NPC's and killed them holding the general public to ransom on bites.... and charging a lot of gold for them...

hence the strong reaction now...

This right here. I remember trying to get my first bite, it took me days since groups would camp and kill the npc's the second they spawned and in turn would charge a fortune (at the time) for a bite. I'm pretty sure that's where the "pay for a bite" hostility comes from.

Your willing to pay for Armour and Jewellery especially made by ESO to benefit Werewolves and Vampires. As a TOKEN shouldn't the Person that initiates You into a society be given The Same Consideration? I'm not talking 1000's, I'd settle for handcrafted beginners rug or mug to remember you by.

Personally, I have absolutely no problem charging for a vamp bite.

It takes 7 days to get it back. That, to me, makes it worth a little something in return. I just say it's available, best offer - no set price. Just whatever comes.
People are willing to pay.

It's not scumbag, it's business. Sure, you can do it for free elsewhere, but if you want it "right now" and I have it available - then make an offer.

Capitalism at it's finest.

I knew the struggle of finding my first ww/vamp bite (and yes i did the npc kind of way) and to help others i provide them for free

Minyassa wrote: »

I'm genuinely curious about the logic involved in this. I saw someone in zone chat ask for a bite, and the only person available to do it was busy but said they'd do it but since it was interrupting them and out of their way they were asking 10k, to which the asker agreed. Immediately, first one and then a bunch of people jumped on the would-be biter, calling them all sorts of names and being generally hostile and angry that they would dare charge for a bite and insisting that bites should always be free. I've seen this sort of conversation many times over the past year, and no one ever answers me when I ask in zone chat: Why is it different to ask for gold for a bite than it is to ask for gold for Skyreach runs, or mats, or something that you stumbled over in a treasure chest?

I know people who bought the bite in the crown store, way back. I also know people who farmed *hard* for the special spawns to earn their bite the hard way out in the wild and are very proud of that accomplishment. So why is this worthless compared to an accidental find, or some time spent picking up a few nodes, or running content with someone to help them earn xp? The bitee is basically asking to have an entire skill line shared with them. Why is this worth less than someone's higher CP level in Skyreach, or someone's luck with a chest?

(Note--within guilds I see a lot of bites given back and forth to guildies, but I also see a lot of items and mats and gold and carries given freely, too, so that's aside from this "random request in zone" thing.)

They don't "have" to be free. It's just usually there are plenty of people willing to share their fangs for free so most people are used to it being that way.

I used to charge for bites (though never 10k, that sound excessive). But I don't anymore. But hey, if you can get 10k for a bite more power to you. I suggest sending whispers to the interested party and not responding in zone chat. That should keep you from being harassed for charging.

EvilCroc wrote: »

Nothing should be free.

What an odd philosophy. Out of curiosity, why shouldn't it?