Who's Dremora are they anyway?

carljokl · May 2018

I have read lore articles stating that the Dremora are the servants of Mehrunes Dagon. He doesn't seem to play much of a role in the events of ESO. All the Dremora in ESO seem to be serving Molag Bal instead.

Is there any lore about this? Do the Dremora change allegiance as Mehrunes Dagon becomes a more dominant antagonist over Molag Bal by the time of Elder Scrolls Oblivion.

We do visit Mehrunes Dagon's domain in Firsthold but I wasn't all that clear if he is much involved otherwise in the events of ESO. The exposure to his domain is minimal.

Speaking of which, The domain or torture where Sai is being held. Lore description describes Mehrune's Dagon's domain as being very volcanic. The aesthetic of that place looks much more like a domain of Mehrunes Dragon with all the lava and red/brown rock than the blue/white/grey washed out look of Coldharbour, Molag Bal's domain.

Do the two have a level of cooperation? Sharing minions and making use of each other's domains as it serves their purposes?

carljokl · May 2018

I take it back about the halls of torment. There are outside areas that are very clearly Coldharbour. The volcanic inside areas are just in keeping with the Dunmer styling those rooms are fashioned after.

Ragged_Claw · May 2018

From the lore book, Spirit of the Daedra:

'We serve by choice. We serve the strong, so that their strength might shield us.
Clans serve by long-practice, but practice may change.
Dremora have long served Dagon but not always so.
Practice is secure when oath-bonds are secure, and trust is shared.
When oath-bonds are weak, there is pain, and shame, and loss, and Darkness, and great fear.'

So I guess they pretty much serve whoever is the strongest at the time. Also there are the Xivkyn which look almost identical:

'Xivkyn are powerful humanoid Daedra created by Molag Bal. They are a fusion of Dremora ("Kyn") and Xivilai, and are the result of Bal's experiments with vestigial hybridization in the Vile Laboratory. They were in charge of the Daedric occupation of the Imperial City in 2E 582.' - from UESP.

Wish they served me though///

Xoelarasizerer · May 2018

You will find some Mehrunes Dagon serving Dremora in a few areas and questlines.
But during Molag Bal's questline and Coldharbour, mostly his.

I found it interesting encountering Dark Seducers (previously seen as guards of Dementia in Sheogorath's Shivering Isles) that were loyal soldiers of Molag Bal instead of the Madgod.

So some Daedra indeed aren't exclusive to one prince.

PrayingSeraph · May 2018

Daedra like mortals can choose which Prince they serve, even if their race were created by a specific Prince. Mehrunes Dagon is the creator of the dremora, and most dremora serve and worship Dagon. But some clans have instead devoted themselves to other Princes. Here are some of the races and who created them

Dremora-Mehrunes Dagon
Xivilai-Molag Bal
Hunger-Boethiah
Winged Twilight-Azura
Seekers, Lurkers,watchers(?)-Hermaous Mora
Ogrim-Malacath
Skaafin-Clavicus Vile
Spider Daedra-Maphala
Aurorans-Meridia
Knights of Order-Jyggalag
Golden Saints, Dark Seducers-Sheogorath

And more

While majority of these daedra stick with their patron prince, others leave to serve other princes.

Hope this helps

carljokl · May 2018

It does. I had found references about Dremora that said they are primarily associated with Mehrunes Dagon but are also found in the service of other Daedric princes. Your answer is a lot more detailed than this.

Chaos2088 · May 2018

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

Daedra like mortals can choose which Prince they serve, even if their race were created by a specific Prince. Mehrunes Dagon is the creator of the dremora, and most dremora serve and worship Dagon. But some clans have instead devoted themselves to other Princes. Here are some of the races and who created them

Dremora-Mehrunes Dagon
Xivilai-Molag Bal
Hunger-Boethiah
Winged Twilight-Azura
Seekers, Lurkers,watchers(?)-Hermaous Mora
Ogrim-Malacath
Skaafin-Clavicus Vile
Spider Daedra-Maphala
Aurorans-Meridia
Knights of Order-Jyggalag
Golden Saints, Dark Seducers-Sheogorath

And more

While majority of these daedra stick with their patron prince, others leave to serve other princes.

Hope this helps

Agree with what was said above.

Also the Daedric Princes I can gather would have a spitting war with each other with servants, kind of "you have a toy I want" kinda mentality. Plus on a power level

WhiteCoatSyndrome · May 2018

They had an answers-your-questions article that addressed this:

"Greetings Immortal one,
Recent rumors speak of your cunning and ingenious defeat of an enemy clan, I offer my congratulation as well as my sincerest admiration. Since you have graciously consented to discuss the ranks and hierarchies of the spawn of Padomay, I humbly request your enlightenment on the nature of the Dremora Clans. Current reserach indicates that Dremora exist in the service of at least two Lords. Do there exist Dremora in the service of others? Are dremora from the same clan ever sworn to the service of different lords, and finally how do the inter-clan hierarchies interact with the rank structure imposed by the Lords themselves? I thank you for your time and such wisdom and knowledge as you care to impart." – Furoniil Telvanni, Mage's Guild Magister, Blacklight Guildhall

Lyranth the Foolkiller says, "A Telvanni, eh? I will answer your questions, for the hubris of your House will then lead you to further traffic with the Daedra, a mistake I am confident you will make one time too many. Though the Dremora find their greatest glory in the service of mighty Molag Bal, not all Dremora are able enough to belong to our ranks, and must find places elsewhere. Less-fortunate Dremora can be found in the service of Mehrunes Dagon, of Vaermina, of Clavicus Vile, and some poor Caitiffs and Churls even serve Peryite. All members of a given clan serve the same Prince, and preserve (to the best of their ability) the standard Dremora hierarchies."

Ajaxandriel · May 2018

carljokl wrote: »

We do visit Mehrunes Dagon's domain in Firsthold but I wasn't all that clear if he is much involved otherwise in the events of ESO. The exposure to his domain is minimal.

We visit Dagon's realm during the "City of Ash II" dungeon

carljokl · May 2018

The Seducers are said to be creations of Sheogorath but it would make a lot more sense if they were created by Sanguine.

ghastley · May 2018

I disagree with the idea that the lesser daedra were created by the Princes. The daedra do not create, they only change what already exists. The lesser daedra will have their clans and internal divisions - as we see in the ESO main quest, where you get assistance from one Dremora against another clan. However, it's always likely that a race, such as the Dremora or the Mazken, will be sympathetic to a particular Prince with whom they feel some agreement.

Those alliances can change with time, and things like Sheogorath (who has a following of Mazken/Aureals) morphing into Jyggalag (with his Order Knights) just adds to the confusion, when the two retinues fight each other. Probably the same happens when Boethiah decides to switch gender, as he/she does from time to time. Scamps, hungers, and others may just follow their "herders", as they crop up all over the map.

elias.stormneb18_ESO · May 2018

ghastley wrote: »

I disagree with the idea that the lesser daedra were created by the Princes. The daedra do not create, they only change what already exists. The lesser daedra will have their clans and internal divisions - as we see in the ESO main quest, where you get assistance from one Dremora against another clan. However, it's always likely that a race, such as the Dremora or the Mazken, will be sympathetic to a particular Prince with whom they feel some agreement.

Those alliances can change with time, and things like Sheogorath (who has a following of Mazken/Aureals) morphing into Jyggalag (with his Order Knights) just adds to the confusion, when the two retinues fight each other. Probably the same happens when Boethiah decides to switch gender, as he/she does from time to time. Scamps, hungers, and others may just follow their "herders", as they crop up all over the map.

I largely agree; but the Daedra can definitely create—they're essentially the same as the Aedra, after all. They simply often avoid doing so, because if they aren't careful ... well, that's what the Maelstrom Arena story is about.

Tucker3711 · May 2018

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Darkest_Darkness
This has answers...

gurluasb16_ESO · June 2018

elias.stormneb18_ESO wrote: »

ghastley wrote: »

I disagree with the idea that the lesser daedra were created by the Princes. The daedra do not create, they only change what already exists. The lesser daedra will have their clans and internal divisions - as we see in the ESO main quest, where you get assistance from one Dremora against another clan. However, it's always likely that a race, such as the Dremora or the Mazken, will be sympathetic to a particular Prince with whom they feel some agreement.

Those alliances can change with time, and things like Sheogorath (who has a following of Mazken/Aureals) morphing into Jyggalag (with his Order Knights) just adds to the confusion, when the two retinues fight each other. Probably the same happens when Boethiah decides to switch gender, as he/she does from time to time. Scamps, hungers, and others may just follow their "herders", as they crop up all over the map.

I largely agree; but the Daedra can definitely create—they're essentially the same as the Aedra, after all. They simply often avoid doing so, because if they aren't careful ... well, that's what the Maelstrom Arena story is about.

Padomaic Et'ada are incapable of creating, only Anuic Et'ada can create.
Padomaic Et'ada can imitate, so if they see something someone else made, they can copy it, exaggerate the details, modify it, but only Anuic Et'ada can create entirely new things.

The only Anuic Daedric Prince that we know of is Meridia, and thus she's the only one who would be capable of creating new things from scratch. It's possible though, that the Daedric Princes may contract mortals to make concepts for them since all descendants of the Ehlnofey are Anuic and can thus create new concepts. (This means essentially all player races)

starkerealm · June 2018

gurluasb16_ESO wrote: »

The only Anuic Daedric Prince that we know of is Meridia...

Malacath comes to mind.

starkerealm · June 2018

carljokl wrote: »

The Seducers are said to be creations of Sheogorath but it would make a lot more sense if they were created by Sanguine.

@carljokl, there's a duality. There's the Golden Saints and the Dark Seducers. Together they encapsulate both aspects of Sheogorath's demeanor.

There's also the Knights of Order, so that's potentially a solid theme of Sheogorath's split identity baked straight into his "normal" persona.

ArchMikem · July 2018

Read somewhere that the Dremora choose their Lords. The Clans respect power and pledge their servitude to the Daedric Prince they believe to be the most powerful.