Why do bites have to be free?

Dagoth_Rac · June 2018

Two issues:

1). There is such a large supply of bites and such a low demand for bites that the market value really is roughly zero. If someone was asking 10k in chat for a Ta rune, people would try to warn the buyer that they were paying above market value. If someone in real life offered to sell you their shares of GE for $10,000 per share, people might try to warn the buyer that the market price of GE is only about $13 per share. I am not sure that warning people of a bad deal is "sticking one's nose where it does not belong". It is the community trying to provide a public service. It is certainly not illegal to charge way above market value for a good, but that does not mean you have a God-given right to do it without anyone calling you out.

2). You cannot exchange a bite for gold in a trade window or via COD. You have to hope that the other person holds up their side of the deal. So bites have historically been one of the most likely items in game that unsavory people use as scams. If the buyer pays and the seller does not bite them, or the bite is given and then buyer does not pay, no one has lost anything but a little time if it was free.

_Salty_ · June 2018

I bite for free because I'm not a scumbag. Easy as that. Lots of ways to make money without exploiting people.

TelvanniWizard · June 2018

Who would pay to become ugly as hell?

D0PAMINE · June 2018

Aisle9 wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Aisle9 that's entirely too reasonable to not give you an Awesome.

Cheers, have one too

You hit the nail on the head. It doesnt matter the price, as long as both parties agree, and everyone not involved minds their own business.

Shmoopy · June 2018

I always give my bites away for free. That said, it sure would be nice to get a tip every so often, especially when I have to zone swap or relog to do it

ZarkingFrued · June 2018

Because it takes no time and the person you're charging 10k is probably a new player who spent a week farming up 10k gold. Just bite people, they aren't worth anything if everyone has vamp or werewolf on almost every character. Why make some newbie wait until they can spare 10k when you could just bite them and let them get started leveling the skill line now. I couldnt imagine ineeding 10k bad enough to charge new players, and if it's vet people making new alts who need a bite then maybe a culture who makes bites free will be good for you as well when you make a new alt and need a bite.

starkerealm · June 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

And farming *hard*? You're joking, right?

Here's what the bite farm involves:
Look around. Is it darkish outside (in game)? If so, proceed to step 2. If not, repeat step 1.

Go to the location where bites happen. Bankorai, Reaper's, etc.

Bankorai example: Go just outside the city, up the hill, look for bloodfiends. If they're present within 2-5 minutes, engage in combat. If they're not wait until next valid step 1.

Get hit once. Check character buffs at bottom of character sheet.

Return to orignal wayshrine, port out, port back in (if necessary). See new questgiver.

It hasn't been hard to farm for it for years, especially since it goes dark every few hours. If the steps above are considered a prideworthy accomplishment, they must feel like they win the lottery every day!

A couple problems with that list.

The zones are Bangkorai, Reaper's March, and The Rift.

There are somewhere in the range of 12-18 different spawn locations (I'm going from memory here), and at any given time 2-3 of them will be active. This means your spawn location you're checking could, very well, be unoccupied while spawns are still up.

Spawns do not pop up the moment it gets dark. They usually only spawn at, or slightly before, midnight.

There are four in game nights each day. RIP having other obligations, if you're really wanting to get one that way.

So, yeah, it could take someone, with normal obligations, a couple weeks of scampering around zone at night before they find a bite. And, of course, if someone else follows your advice, gets into combat with the infection spawns and kills them, then that would reduce the chances even further.

So, no, not quite that simple. Not impossible, but not as easy as you're making it sound.

Cheetac19 · June 2018

They don't necessarily have to be free, but most people believe they should be. I never charge, I wasn't charged, and I'm always thrilled to help and make someone happy.
It doesn't cost anything to bite, and it makes the other person happy. Why not be free?

I frequently bite bomb the alters, run in, nom nom, flee the scene lol.

10k is pretty crazy though...

Wildberryjack · June 2018

I see players shout out offering 5k to 10k for a bite. They are the ones initiating the transaction so clearly they are fine with it. If a player decides to bite them and accepts payment then how is that wrong? I've even been offered a hefty tip after I said "free". Many will pay for the sheer convenience, it's worth it to them.

The players who ask for money or no bite, there also isn't anything wrong with that. They are taking their time to do something for someone else, in doing so their ability to do it again is gone for a solid week. They feel their time is worth being paid and that is their decision to make, not ours.

There really isn't an argument to be had here. Neither side is wrong. It is simply a difference of opinion. If you don't want to pay then look for the NPCs when they're up or wait for someone who will bite free.

bloodthirstyvampire · June 2018

Hey if you want to charge go ahead business is business, tho I still think It's scummy

bellatrixed · June 2018

I usually get free bites from guildies but if I needed to get one from a stranger I would tip. IMO it's not about paying for the bite itself so much as giving someone something in return for taking the time to help.

TheForsake · June 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

It means you've effectively 'missed it' 239 times out of 240, assuming it takes a full minute to travel to wayshrine and associated area.

No idea how long it takes lol, I only did it once when the game first came out years ago.

Never paid for one either. I just give my away if I see anyone from guild or zone chat ask. If I need one I ask in guild chat. Bites and skyreach are completely different ball parks.

Itzmichi · June 2018

Minyassa wrote: »

I'm genuinely curious about the logic involved in this. I saw someone in zone chat ask for a bite, and the only person available to do it was busy but said they'd do it but since it was interrupting them and out of their way they were asking 10k, to which the asker agreed. Immediately, first one and then a bunch of people jumped on the would-be biter, calling them all sorts of names and being generally hostile and angry that they would dare charge for a bite and insisting that bites should always be free. I've seen this sort of conversation many times over the past year, and no one ever answers me when I ask in zone chat: Why is it different to ask for gold for a bite than it is to ask for gold for Skyreach runs, or mats, or something that you stumbled over in a treasure chest?

I know people who bought the bite in the crown store, way back. I also know people who farmed *hard* for the special spawns to earn their bite the hard way out in the wild and are very proud of that accomplishment. So why is this worthless compared to an accidental find, or some time spent picking up a few nodes, or running content with someone to help them earn xp? The bitee is basically asking to have an entire skill line shared with them. Why is this worth less than someone's higher CP level in Skyreach, or someone's luck with a chest?

(Note--within guilds I see a lot of bites given back and forth to guildies, but I also see a lot of items and mats and gold and carries given freely, too, so that's aside from this "random request in zone" thing.)

Easy answer, because we are not Zenimax.

Sparr0w · June 2018

Depends, if I'm on the right character, near the shrine and not doing something then yeh free as it's not an inconvenience.

If I have to swap character/travel/stop what I'm doing then charge or wait till I'm finished.

Usually someone else will jump in with a free bite if you say 5k or wait till I'm finished anyways.

Same applies with crafting, if I'm at the station and someone wants something it's just mats, else its mats & a tip

*Unless a guildie then everythings at cost price*

SSlarg · June 2018

_Salty_ wrote: »

I bite for free because I'm not a scumbag. Easy as that. Lots of ways to make money without exploiting people.

Go to work tomorrow and inform your
boss that you'd rather not get paid for
your work anymore as you feel your time
shouldn't cost anything, also you wouldn't want to charge your boss for what you could easily do for free?

now do you see how silly this arguement seems?

coop500 · June 2018

SSlarg wrote: »

_Salty_ wrote: »

I bite for free because I'm not a scumbag. Easy as that. Lots of ways to make money without exploiting people.

Go to work tomorrow and inform your
boss that you'd rather not get paid for
your work anymore as you feel your time
shouldn't cost anything, also you wouldn't want to charge your boss for what you could easily do for free?

now do you see how silly this arguement seems?

Comparing pixel game time of like 5-10 minutes VS a IRL job of hours... that has way more work.... Yeah, totally a even and reasonable comparison XD

Merlin13KAGL · June 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

And farming *hard*? You're joking, right?

Here's what the bite farm involves:
Look around. Is it darkish outside (in game)? If so, proceed to step 2. If not, repeat step 1.

Go to the location where bites happen. Bankorai, Reaper's, etc.

Bankorai example: Go just outside the city, up the hill, look for bloodfiends. If they're present within 2-5 minutes, engage in combat. If they're not wait until next valid step 1.

Get hit once. Check character buffs at bottom of character sheet.

Return to orignal wayshrine, port out, port back in (if necessary). See new questgiver.

It hasn't been hard to farm for it for years, especially since it goes dark every few hours. If the steps above are considered a prideworthy accomplishment, they must feel like they win the lottery every day!

A couple problems with that list.

The zones are Bangkorai, Reaper's March, and The Rift.

There are somewhere in the range of 12-18 different spawn locations (I'm going from memory here), and at any given time 2-3 of them will be active. This means your spawn location you're checking could, very well, be unoccupied while spawns are still up.

Spawns do not pop up the moment it gets dark. They usually only spawn at, or slightly before, midnight.

There are four in game nights each day. RIP having other obligations, if you're really wanting to get one that way.

So, yeah, it could take someone, with normal obligations, a couple weeks of scampering around zone at night before they find a bite. And, of course, if someone else follows your advice, gets into combat with the infection spawns and kills them, then that would reduce the chances even further.

So, no, not quite that simple. Not impossible, but not as easy as you're making it sound.

Again, it's a time vs gold tradeoff. In the grand scheme of things, unless you're wanting to RP, Vamp is one of those things you can pick up anywhere in your progression and you'll be just fine.

Regarding the method above, I'm just going by what historically worked for me on a handful of characters (Because I'm cheap, I'm stubborn, and I didn't want to bother a guildie at the time.)

I literally only checked one spawn location. Adds were there, or they weren't. If they weren't, I went back to whatever I was doing before. (Bankorai, Evermore, just atop the hill by the graveyard seemed the easiest to check.)

Perhaps it was a combination of good luck (with timing) and patience. (I don't recall how many @ dark times I checked to not find spawns.) And as mentioned, my second Vamp ever caught it by complete accident. I hadn't noticed it on the character sheet (and wouldn't have), if not for the presence of the new NPC at the wayshrine.

You are correct though, if using this method, you don't want to kill the spawns for the next guy. Walk up, get thumped a few times, then run away and let them tether reset.

Cadbury · June 2018

I don't charge for bites personally, but I certainly don't begrudge any who do.

I'm honestly surprised there are people on both sides taking offense to this.

For real?

DeadlyRecluse · June 2018

The "value" of a bite is such a paltry sum that I can't imagine anyone who has played for more than a few weeks caring about getting paid for it.

...but on the other hand, I don't bite randoms asking in zone. Just guildies or anyone trolling around the shrines if I'm passing them organicially with a bite up.

Potenza · June 2018

Mettaricana wrote: »

Its a savage mentality left over from the early days of eso where guilds would kill all vampire spawns and ww spawns to control the market on bite some used to be 100k back during those days because of how hard people tried to corner the market on the bites. There was like 90 ppl at the spawn points trying to get bit, but huge bite seller guilds would be waiting to annihilate anything that spawns before anyone could catch a break... eventually few guilds turned members and had a massive free bote fest that stuck forevermore

The hate comes from what this guy said right here. We hated the control they had over the bites forcing people to pay. So to screw them over everyone started giving bites for free and lambasted anyone who charged.
Thats what you are seeing.

Aisle9 · June 2018

Sevn wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Having been scammed out of gold when I was more of a noob looking for a bite I certainly look down on anyone charging for bites. It's not like you can get bitten and give gold simultaneously so it's always a risk with a stranger, which is usually the only ones available to bite you.

Unless you ask in guild chat.

Or friend list.

Or wait for the NPC at the spawn location.

Or buy it in the crown store...

Yeah, other than that, it's your only choice.

Didn't know usually had the same meaning of only. I guess you learn something every day.

I have no idea how you came to that conclusion, but no. I'm not a native English speaker, but I'm fairly sure it's inaccurate. A second opinion may be needed, though.

According to the Merriam-Webster Usually means:
- according to the usual or ordinary course of things
- most often
- as a rule

while Only means:
- alone in a class or category

Then, again, when you combine them in a sentence like "it's usually the only choice" it might cause confusion.

Again, my advice is to look for a second opinion, I'm not a native speaker, they may have the same meaning in some context.

Hope this clarifies.
Have a nice day.

I edited my post for clarity. You're really defensive about this subject. Just how much do you charge and how often have you been rebuffed for demanding payment for a bite? I assure you I wasn't one of them.

To answer your first question [ implied ], I'm defensive when I'm arguing against people that I perceive as dishonest, for using ad hominem arguments, rather than debate the my actual argument.

I know it's not the best way to deal with it, but I'm Italian, I'm loud and emotional, sue me.

To answer your second question:

Aisle9 wrote: »

[..]I don't bite anyone who's not in one of the guilds I'm in, regardless of how much they are willing to pay, because I offer it for free to guild members. If I give it to a stranger I might not have it for a guildie.[..]

Page 2, follow the link.

As for your original post (edited), if you're not in a guild you miss out on a lot of social advantages of a social game, including getting stuff for free, but sure, let's say you have reasons to not be a member of one.

My original argument was:

You get what you find. If you don't like the deal you're proposed, you are free to refuse the transaction and look for a better deal. If you can't be bothered/don't have time to look or wait for someone giving it away for free, you pay the premium.

At no point in time you are entitled to one, nor is within your right to belittle people offering it for money, nor is acceptable for you to bully someone into giving it up for free, if they don't want to, which is a direct response to the OP.

I'm using You in a conversational manner to define a hypothetical player looking for a bite, not you specifically.

Hope this clarifies.
Have a nice day.

Fair enough, though not a single thing I posted was false, nor was there an hint of an ad hominem attack. I'm aware of the benefits of being in a guild, though as I stated my experience was when I was new to the game and guildmates weren't always available during my playing time. My issue was with the scammers that charge and run away, not with individuals who choose to charge, let me make that clear.

My original post was again from a personal perspective, nothing more nothing less.

Definition of ad hominem
1 : appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect

an ad hominem argument

2 : marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made

made an ad hominem personal attack on his rival

e.g. :

Sevn wrote: »

I edited my post for clarity. You're really defensive about this subject. Just how much do you charge and how often have you been rebuffed for demanding payment for a bite? I assure you I wasn't one of them.

Hope this clarifies.
Have a nice day.

ezio45 · June 2018

All good hearted ppl aside, thing are only worth what ppl will pay for them. Supply and demand

1) You can get them free on your own from adds
2) they are so abundant there worthless

its like trying to sell a "ta" someone needs for 30k, no matter how much someone needs a "ta" at that very moment your not going to pay 30k for it because if you want and look you can probably get a one basically free

SolidusPrime · June 2018

Meh, I didn't have anyone just hand me a free bite, nor did I expect them to...when I wanted it, I went out and got it from the NPCs. If you aren't a friend or guildee, you pay for the convenience. I've made a pretty little penny from creating vampires and I don't feel bad about it.

JKorr · June 2018

Minyassa wrote: »

I'm genuinely curious about the logic involved in this. I saw someone in zone chat ask for a bite, and the only person available to do it was busy but said they'd do it but since it was interrupting them and out of their way they were asking 10k, to which the asker agreed. Immediately, first one and then a bunch of people jumped on the would-be biter, calling them all sorts of names and being generally hostile and angry that they would dare charge for a bite and insisting that bites should always be free. I've seen this sort of conversation many times over the past year, and no one ever answers me when I ask in zone chat: Why is it different to ask for gold for a bite than it is to ask for gold for Skyreach runs, or mats, or something that you stumbled over in a treasure chest?

I know people who bought the bite in the crown store, way back. I also know people who farmed *hard* for the special spawns to earn their bite the hard way out in the wild and are very proud of that accomplishment. So why is this worthless compared to an accidental find, or some time spent picking up a few nodes, or running content with someone to help them earn xp? The bitee is basically asking to have an entire skill line shared with them. Why is this worth less than someone's higher CP level in Skyreach, or someone's luck with a chest?

(Note--within guilds I see a lot of bites given back and forth to guildies, but I also see a lot of items and mats and gold and carries given freely, too, so that's aside from this "random request in zone" thing.)

Question for you; is it possible for you to accidentally complete Skyreach? I mean, you need to go somewhere, and just happen to wander into Skyreach, type of thing. If people aren't killing the spawns, it is possible to accidentally end up as a werewolf.

What if you wanted to find Skyreach, and find other players camping out to keep killing all the enemies so you wander through an empty dungeon? Blocking your access until you fork over a few thousand gold....

Getting bitten by the ww spawns and bloodfiends is supposed to be part of the game. When guilds camped the spawns so they could prevent players from accessing part of the game they paid for so they could charge for the bites, it wasn't seen as a good thing. I'd consider it griefing, but I'm sure others would have a different opinion. The skill lines showed up in the crown store as a last resort after many complaints/rants/threads about the guilds killing the spawns and blocking access to the skill lines.

As far as farming nodes; is it possible for someone to farm every node in the zone before you can get to one? You know, so they can charge whatever they want for the mats because you can't get them? The spawns/bloodfiends are finite during that certain time period. Nodes don't have a limited amount of time that they will appear. If someone is attempting to steal all the nodes you want to farm, you can move to a different zone. You want to get bitten by a vamp or ww, you have only the last zones for the factions. Since One Tamriel it is a *lot* harder to block access to the spawns, since everyone can get to the Rift, Bangkorai, and Reaper's March instead of being locked to their faction's zone.

I have a full list of characters on one account, and about half full on my second. I have a dozen werewolves. I don't charge for a bite. I've whispered people who said in zone they'd pay for one. I ask if they know about being a werewolf. It takes a few minutes to go to the ww shrine. Takes a lot longer to farm mats and carry someone through Skyreach. The mats from nodes are worth gold; even if you sell them to npcs/vendors. Your time to carry someone through Skyreach that wouldn't be able to complete it on their own might be worth gold to the carrier. If people want to tip, I have no problem with it. Not allowing someone access to something that is part of the game they should be able to get until they pay? No; I'll always offer for free.

DaveMoeDee · June 2018

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

I'm amazed at the people here defending charging for bites. There is SO MUCH more supply than demand on vampirism and WW. You can very easily find players who will give you a bite free of charge.

So yes, while you have the right to sell bites for whatever you want, keep in mind you WILL be ripping those players off. The reason people in chat jump on bite sellers is that people who sell bites prey on newbies who likely don't realize how common and easy to get bites are.

I'm an officer in a large social guild, and we enforce free bites only rule in the guild for guildmates.

I don't think your application of "supply and demand" is accurate in you hypothetical. The player paying for a bit puts it out there in chat, the marketplace as far as they know, that they are looking for a bite. If only one person responds and asks for gold to do it, that is the supply. If there are people willing to give for free, they will let the requester know and the requester will use them instead of the person charging. People not in the zone or not reading chat don't matter.

And, while I will never charge for a bite, I don't want to waste the skillpoint right now and I am unlikely to spend limited game time to log onto an alt with the point allocated to travel to the area where bites have to happen. I'm really only going to make that effort for a friend. People can always google how to get bites from NPCs.

DuskMarine · June 2018

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

I'm amazed at the people here defending charging for bites. There is SO MUCH more supply than demand on vampirism and WW. You can very easily find players who will give you a bite free of charge.

So yes, while you have the right to sell bites for whatever you want, keep in mind you WILL be ripping those players off. The reason people in chat jump on bite sellers is that people who sell bites prey on newbies who likely don't realize how common and easy to get bites are.

I'm an officer in a large social guild, and we enforce free bites only rule in the guild for guildmates.

I don't think your application of "supply and demand" is accurate in you hypothetical. The player paying for a bit puts it out there in chat, the marketplace as far as they know, that they are looking for a bite. If only one person responds and asks for gold to do it, that is the supply. If there are people willing to give for free, they will let the requester know and the requester will use them instead of the person charging. People not in the zone or not reading chat don't matter.

And, while I will never charge for a bite, I don't want to waste the skillpoint right now and I am unlikely to spend limited game time to log onto an alt with the point allocated to travel to the area where bites have to happen. I'm really only going to make that effort for a friend. People can always google how to get bites from NPCs.

actually the only way to actually get a bite is to either buy through crown store or get a player to do it because people litterally farm those npcs into the ground so they cant bite anyone else. so its a community made rule that you just dont expect money for bites unless you wanted labeled as a scumbag.

SolidusPrime · June 2018

DuskMarine wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

I'm amazed at the people here defending charging for bites. There is SO MUCH more supply than demand on vampirism and WW. You can very easily find players who will give you a bite free of charge.

So yes, while you have the right to sell bites for whatever you want, keep in mind you WILL be ripping those players off. The reason people in chat jump on bite sellers is that people who sell bites prey on newbies who likely don't realize how common and easy to get bites are.

I'm an officer in a large social guild, and we enforce free bites only rule in the guild for guildmates.

I don't think your application of "supply and demand" is accurate in you hypothetical. The player paying for a bit puts it out there in chat, the marketplace as far as they know, that they are looking for a bite. If only one person responds and asks for gold to do it, that is the supply. If there are people willing to give for free, they will let the requester know and the requester will use them instead of the person charging. People not in the zone or not reading chat don't matter.

And, while I will never charge for a bite, I don't want to waste the skillpoint right now and I am unlikely to spend limited game time to log onto an alt with the point allocated to travel to the area where bites have to happen. I'm really only going to make that effort for a friend. People can always google how to get bites from NPCs.

actually the only way to actually get a bite is to either buy through crown store or get a player to do it because people litterally farm those npcs into the ground so they cant bite anyone else. so its a community made rule that you just dont expect money for bites unless you wanted labeled as a scumbag.

Bull, quit being so over dramatic. There are people that go get themselves new bites all the time. This nonsense gets perpetuated by people that are too lazy or too entitled to go do the work themselves.

I've sold AT LEAST 50 and it hasn't done a damn thing to my reputation.

josiahva · June 2018

I don't bite people who aren't friends or guildies, but if I did, you can be sure I would charge for a bite...once a week and time out of my play...would be at least 5k, otherwise they can go work a little and hunt down a bloodfiend or pay ZOS for it.

DuskMarine · June 2018

SolidusPrime wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

I'm amazed at the people here defending charging for bites. There is SO MUCH more supply than demand on vampirism and WW. You can very easily find players who will give you a bite free of charge.

So yes, while you have the right to sell bites for whatever you want, keep in mind you WILL be ripping those players off. The reason people in chat jump on bite sellers is that people who sell bites prey on newbies who likely don't realize how common and easy to get bites are.

I'm an officer in a large social guild, and we enforce free bites only rule in the guild for guildmates.

I don't think your application of "supply and demand" is accurate in you hypothetical. The player paying for a bit puts it out there in chat, the marketplace as far as they know, that they are looking for a bite. If only one person responds and asks for gold to do it, that is the supply. If there are people willing to give for free, they will let the requester know and the requester will use them instead of the person charging. People not in the zone or not reading chat don't matter.

And, while I will never charge for a bite, I don't want to waste the skillpoint right now and I am unlikely to spend limited game time to log onto an alt with the point allocated to travel to the area where bites have to happen. I'm really only going to make that effort for a friend. People can always google how to get bites from NPCs.

actually the only way to actually get a bite is to either buy through crown store or get a player to do it because people litterally farm those npcs into the ground so they cant bite anyone else. so its a community made rule that you just dont expect money for bites unless you wanted labeled as a scumbag.

Bull, quit being so over dramatic. There are people that go get themselves new bites all the time. This nonsense gets perpetuated by people that are too lazy or too entitled to go do the work themselves.

I've sold AT LEAST 50 and it hasn't done a damn thing to my reputation.

you think. and the only way to actually get them is buying or player cause the npcs are never up cause their always killed.

Zimbugga · June 2018

Every player have change to get bite from feral vampires and werewolves at Full Moon and New Moon, but sadly those NPCs are always bugged or killed, so that's why they must be free.