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The Effect of Balance
Vandellia
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I am at this point tired of the effect of what happens to me when they attempt to balance players skills in the game. Let me clarify, PVE and PVP are two entirely different animals, and should be treated as such. Calling a skill over powered in PVP does not mean is over powered it PVE. Stop nerfing my PVE skills and making my quality of play less and less enjoyable. The solution to fix this could be quite simple, apply debuff's to specific "op'd" skills when entering a PVP zone or conversely add a buff to a underpowered one.
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Vandellia✭✭✭Got it wrong but nice try (my main is a stam sorc ). This is about the inherent cry, to NERF the heck out of any skill in any class that gives a distinct/clear advantage in the PVP environment, with out the care or consideration on what the changes they make across the board effect the PVE side of game play. This is a cry to fix PVP imbalances by buffing/debuffing the skills in the PVP zones, not to destroy my ability to play the PVE game.4
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Really? Can't say I've noticed any problems with my PVE stam sorcs.
ZOS has a distinct tendency to nerf anything, skill or gear or class, that's overused in PVE or PVP in an effort to make us always be changing up our builds.Edited by VaranisArano on 5 May 2018 15:442 -
Tyrobag✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Really? Can't say I've noticed any problems with my PVE stam sorcs.
ZOS has a distinct tendency to nerf anything, skill or gear or class, that's overused in PVE or PVP in an effort to make us always be changing up our builds.
^ this
They keep the game constantly changing so they can sell more character slots, race changes, and respec scrolls. Plus it keeps you in game for longer trying to iron out all of the kinks they put in your build.
The biggest effect of this was for mDKs, it basically pulled the plug on their life support.2 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭usmcjdking wrote: »Found another magblade.
why?. i don't even know why strife is getting nerfed but it's likely because of PvE (funnel health) i haven't heard a single person ever complain about Strike being op in PvP. execpt for recently with *** who just don't like NB's in general rejoicing because NB's are getting nerfed, even though it's the wrong kind of nerf but of course they don't care.
it's like people complained that Incap is op so ZoS nerfs Soul Harvest. Strife is not the issue and never was.Edited by Lucky28 on 5 May 2018 16:41Invictus2 -
Franieck✭✭✭✭PVE and PVP should have been kept separately from the beginning... It would have kept both communities happier, would have caused less friction between both and would have given ZOS more creative opportunities to enhance each experience. Sadly, they are adamant about keeping both together and screwing them up as they go along. Maybe they feel emotionally invested in this ridiculous idea, go figure...Anyway, don't keep your hopes up.1 -
Vandellia✭✭✭Thank you Franieck you got my point. PVP and PVE are seperate entities and should be treated as such.1
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Vandellia✭✭✭Actually better yet totally seperate all skills into pvp and pve categories and make them unusable in the other location.
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Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nah.
Personally i like games that offer a somewhat unified experience in terms of pve and pvp. I always found games with specific pvp items/stats offputting and less interesting.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »Found another magblade.
why?. i don't even know why strife is getting nerfed but it's likely because of PvE (funnel health) i haven't heard a single person ever complain about Strike being op in PvP. execpt for recently with *** who just don't like NB's in general rejoicing because NB's are getting nerfed, even though it's the wrong kind of nerf but of course they don't care.
it's like people complained that Incap is op so ZoS nerfs Soul Harvest. Strife is not the issue and never was.
PvE DPS.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.2 -
Vandellia✭✭✭that's were a generalized buff or de-buff to specific skills would be the optimal solution to balancing
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Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »Found another magblade.
why?. i don't even know why strife is getting nerfed but it's likely because of PvE (funnel health) i haven't heard a single person ever complain about Strike being op in PvP. execpt for recently with *** who just don't like NB's in general rejoicing because NB's are getting nerfed, even though it's the wrong kind of nerf but of course they don't care.
it's like people complained that Incap is op so ZoS nerfs Soul Harvest. Strife is not the issue and never was.
PvE DPS.
that's what they say. but in PvE Force pulse is better than Strife for DPS even on live. so they just increase the cost and push even more people away from class abilities and to FP. it really doesn't make sense even from a pve perspective.Edited by Lucky28 on 5 May 2018 21:34Invictus2 -
DuskMarine✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nah.
Personally i like games that offer a somewhat unified experience in terms of pve and pvp. I always found games with specific pvp items/stats offputting and less interesting.
if you find this setup better than what it should be you havent played many mmos. they need to be seperated period. cause before long theyll eventually nerf everything so much due to pvpers constantly screaming about something that doesnt need changed and itll kill the pve side of the game completely. a unified system doesnt work correctly.1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DuskMarine wrote: »Nah.
Personally i like games that offer a somewhat unified experience in terms of pve and pvp. I always found games with specific pvp items/stats offputting and less interesting.
if you find this setup better than what it should be you havent played many mmos. they need to be seperated period. cause before long theyll eventually nerf everything so much due to pvpers constantly screaming about something that doesnt need changed and itll kill the pve side of the game completely. a unified system doesnt work correctly.
Or they'll nerf everything because PVP players were having high damage and high sustain AND PVE players were ripping through the hardest trials ZOS could design and calling it easy-peasy lemon squeezy, resulting in the worst across-the-board nerfs the game has seen. *cough* *Morrowind nerfs* *cough*
OP PVP skills annoy some players. They scream. Whatever.
OP PVE skills mean ZOS has to push the envelope in terms of difficult content, making it harder to design content to challenge great players that less skilled players still have a chance to complete. So PVE stuff gets needed for purely PVE reasons plenty, on top of ZOS wanting to nerf overused skills to make people change up their builds. PVE dungeon bosses cant complain, but you'd better believe ZOS pays attention to anything that's making PVE too easy.
I think you have a one-sided view of why nerfs happen. I also don't think that ZOS shows any real signs of considering balancing PVP and PVE separately beyond what they already do, i.e. battle spirit, and a few spells that affect players differently from NPCs.0 -
DuskMarine✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »Nah.
Personally i like games that offer a somewhat unified experience in terms of pve and pvp. I always found games with specific pvp items/stats offputting and less interesting.
if you find this setup better than what it should be you havent played many mmos. they need to be seperated period. cause before long theyll eventually nerf everything so much due to pvpers constantly screaming about something that doesnt need changed and itll kill the pve side of the game completely. a unified system doesnt work correctly.
Or they'll nerf everything because PVP players were having high damage and high sustain AND PVE players were ripping through the hardest trials ZOS could design and calling it easy-peasy lemon squeezy, resulting in the worst across-the-board nerfs the game has seen. *cough* *Morrowind nerfs* *cough*
OP PVP skills annoy some players. They scream. Whatever.
OP PVE skills mean ZOS has to push the envelope in terms of difficult content, making it harder to design content to challenge great players that less skilled players still have a chance to complete. So PVE stuff gets needed for purely PVE reasons plenty, on top of ZOS wanting to nerf overused skills to make people change up their builds. PVE dungeon bosses cant complain, but you'd better believe ZOS pays attention to anything that's making PVE too easy.
I think you have a one-sided view of why nerfs happen. I also don't think that ZOS shows any real signs of considering balancing PVP and PVE separately beyond what they already do, i.e. battle spirit, and a few spells that affect players differently from NPCs.
heres how you balance pve seperately from pvp. instead of nerfing stuff make stuff harder thats what creates veteran players dont nerf anything in pve you have to have a difficulty climb in a player vs enviroment standpoint you cant just keep the same stuff as it is and nerfing it into the ground. you get op on stats in pve and thats how its suppose to be. which any good company brings out harder content that keeps going in a progressive state. you nerf it into the ground due to people in pvp being pissed guess what happens not only are you screwing over your current playerbase but your screwing over your newer players as well making it harder for them to reach these points in the pve spotlight. now pvp heres the easiest way to keep this completely serparated from pve its right in front of zoses faces and the players faces and your face as well and im gonna capitilize it for you. BATTLE SPIRIT BUFF, that alone could effect certain things in pvp while totally leaving pve alone. if they want to nerf something change how battle spirit effects that certain thing and problem solved. they easily could keep the 2 seperate but they choose not to because no one ever thinks of the right way to split the two apart.2 -
VilniusNastavnik✭✭✭✭✭
Active Toons:
NA - VilniusNastavnik - Magsorc DPS - Altmer
NA - Ko'h Nehko'h - Stamblade Archer - Khajit
NA - Arwyn Winterlight - MagPlar Healer - Breton
NA - Urog Blackfang - DK Tank - Orc
NA - Elen Windsong - Stamsorc DPS - Bosmer
NA - Eats-Strange-Fungus - Magden HealzTank- Argonian
NA - Harwyn Northwind - MagWarden DPS - High Elf
NA - Raises-Many-Families - Necro HealzTank - Argonian
Picture of my Active Toons.
Location: Australia - Wollongong, NSW - Sydney.
Obligatory ESO Fashion website plug: Vil's Portfolio2 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PvE took Major Mending from my stamplar. I don’t want to hear complaining about pvp nerfs hurting PvE. It goes both ways and you just have to accept that.1 -
OGLezard✭✭✭✭✭
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So much this. Remember when they took cp away from pvp as one of these "test" they were doing (part of many mind you).....then the other test just never came.......they just stopped. No more test.3 -
JPcrazysquirrel3✭✭✭✭PvE took Major Mending from my stamplar. I don’t want to hear complaining about pvp nerfs hurting PvE. It goes both ways and you just have to accept that.
I thought the general consensus was that Templars lost major mending because Zos was trying to make the Warden look better and sell Morrowind."Wood Elves aren't made of wood. Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves."
"It's just not a home until you decorate the torture chamber, am I right?"
"If you want to lose 10lbs of ugly fat, I'd be happy to chop your head off!"
"Degenerates!" --- Todd Howard
"If it's not broke, don't fix it,....unless you're ZO$ and are just doing it for the money!" --- MeClass reps are just like our politicians. They promise mountains made of gold for us, but in the end, whenever they can they try to push their own agenda.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Bio:
I am in a Kevduit videoPS4 (main platform)
--- JP_Dovahkriid
PC (just for PTS since Dragon Bones)
--- JP_Dovahkriid
Playing since console release in 2015
17 characters; mainly play PvE tanks and healer, as well as PvP stamDK, magplar, and stamblade; I also have a handful of DPS toons to have variety. All AD, with one, now PvE, DC toon.
I was on the forums before, but something happened with my account info and I had to create a new account.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DuskMarine wrote: »Nah.
Personally i like games that offer a somewhat unified experience in terms of pve and pvp. I always found games with specific pvp items/stats offputting and less interesting.
if you find this setup better than what it should be you havent played many mmos. they need to be seperated period. cause before long theyll eventually nerf everything so much due to pvpers constantly screaming about something that doesnt need changed and itll kill the pve side of the game completely. a unified system doesnt work correctly.
I played daoc, warhammer online, age of conan, guildwars, guildwars 2, aion, rift, swtor and i´m sure i´m forgetting a few games that just didn´t do it for me.
Doesn´t change my opinion: seperate pvp stats are for lazy devs and carebears.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nah.
Personally i like games that offer a somewhat unified experience in terms of pve and pvp. I always found games with specific pvp items/stats offputting and less interesting.
But eso has separate pvp items/stats? Impen is full on pvp mode, vicious death and shieldbreaker are pvp sets, the builds are different, skill setups are different, cp setups are different, consumables are usually different.
Pvp and pve couldn’t be more different in this game.0 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭I actually think that the current system is quite fair. Atm magicka nightblades got a nerf to strife, because it was very cheap, making it possible to sustain a light attack rotation without much sacrifice, while other classes like magdk or magplar even struggle with regen bufffood and stuff. This resulted in higher dps for magblades. Now magblades also are very strong in pvp and i think the cost increase to strife will have them to go a bit more for sustain.
Thats only one of the current examples, but normally imbalances from skills affect both pve and pvp. If a skill in pve is too strong and it is also used in pvp, then mostly its too strong there too. An example for that was the crystal frag, which allowed sorcs to be top notch dd‘s while they could burst people down in pvp. Right there are skills only used in pve or pvp, but its mostly the case, that if a skill overperforms in one content, then it also does in the other.
Therefore this system is not that bad at all, it also helps the devs to recognize problems faster.0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Nah.
Personally i like games that offer a somewhat unified experience in terms of pve and pvp. I always found games with specific pvp items/stats offputting and less interesting.
But eso has separate pvp items/stats? Impen is full on pvp mode, vicious death and shieldbreaker are pvp sets, the builds are different, skill setups are different, cp setups are different, consumables are usually different.
Pvp and pve couldn’t be more different in this game.
warframe for example, is a game that is mainly focused on PvE, and they balance pvp separately,(not to say it has very good pvp, I obviously prefer eso, but the way that game handles pvp creates little to no balance issues , because pvp and pve are completely separated) classes and weapons all work different in pvp mode. It prevents a lot of problems and makes it actually easier to balance the game.
(Also PvE actually feels fun in that game, mainly because you can become a one man army in PvE basically, since PvP itemization is separate, they can go wild with pve balance.)Edited by Ragnarock41 on 6 May 2018 09:360 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭JPcrazysquirrel3 wrote: »PvE took Major Mending from my stamplar. I don’t want to hear complaining about pvp nerfs hurting PvE. It goes both ways and you just have to accept that.
I thought the general consensus was that Templars lost major mending because Zos was trying to make the Warden look better and sell Morrowind.
That’s not what ZOS said, their justification was that they wanted healing in PvE to be more balanced, which they have continuously been doing even with this patch so I believe it.0 -
Vandellia✭✭✭Again and Again this thread was that regardless of it being PVP or PVE Nerfing a skill because its "OP" in one or the other and having it effect both halves/sides is not a good thing. to balance it would easier to leave a"pve" skill alone and Buff or Debuff as necessary in the pvp zones. OR vice versa.0
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_Ahala_✭✭✭✭✭
✭Or... we could just nerf magden again for balance reasons because it’s an absolute god in pve and pvp /sarcasm2 -
JPcrazysquirrel3✭✭✭✭JPcrazysquirrel3 wrote: »PvE took Major Mending from my stamplar. I don’t want to hear complaining about pvp nerfs hurting PvE. It goes both ways and you just have to accept that.
I thought the general consensus was that Templars lost major mending because Zos was trying to make the Warden look better and sell Morrowind.
That’s not what ZOS said, their justification was that they wanted healing in PvE to be more balanced, which they have continuously been doing even with this patch so I believe it.
Lol, now we're gonna queue into vet DLC dungeons and find out the "healer" is an Imperial DK healer with dual wield daggers and a destruction staff."Wood Elves aren't made of wood. Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves."
"It's just not a home until you decorate the torture chamber, am I right?"
"If you want to lose 10lbs of ugly fat, I'd be happy to chop your head off!"
"Degenerates!" --- Todd Howard
"If it's not broke, don't fix it,....unless you're ZO$ and are just doing it for the money!" --- MeClass reps are just like our politicians. They promise mountains made of gold for us, but in the end, whenever they can they try to push their own agenda.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Bio:
I am in a Kevduit videoPS4 (main platform)
--- JP_Dovahkriid
PC (just for PTS since Dragon Bones)
--- JP_Dovahkriid
Playing since console release in 2015
17 characters; mainly play PvE tanks and healer, as well as PvP stamDK, magplar, and stamblade; I also have a handful of DPS toons to have variety. All AD, with one, now PvE, DC toon.
I was on the forums before, but something happened with my account info and I had to create a new account.0
