Monetisation of New Systems

DieAlteHexe · April 2018

lordrichter wrote: »

mikejezz wrote: »

To be fair regarding mounts, this game nails it better than WoW. There you pay to play and also have to pay for mounts on the store (I know they put a little bit of mounts in each expansion that can be obtained in raids.)

Here you actually can pay for mounts with the monthly crowns you get.

I give WoW the win on this one.

Turelus wrote: »

ZOS the development side is a company many love and enjoy the content they produce. ZOS the marketing side has increasingly moved more and more system to make money at the expense of player satisfaction.

This happens when marketing drives game development. When marketing drives development, you get something designed to be marketed. When the game developers drive, you get a game, but probably not as financially successful.

I know they are attempting to strike a balance for monetization, while still giving the game something that it needs. It does bug me the "price" that has to be paid for the game to get something it needs, though.

Turelus wrote: »

Removal of the option to buy all items from crates with gems. Breaking new motifs into chapters and placing them in Crates.

If those two alone don't show where this is heading and set off some alarm bells for people I don't know what will.

Yeah, but it does not matter. On these things, ZOS has done the math, they know what they want to do, and they are going to do it. They know what we are going to complain about before they even roll something out. They sit back and nod at threads like this, saying "called it."

Look at the loot boxes and the outrage that had. Thread after thread about it. Not only did they not go away, they enhanced them with loot box exclusives. They don't publish the odds because we, the players, volunteer to spend our money to crowd source that information. What's not for them to love?

Look at the outfit slots for $15. Rage in the forum really taught them a thing or two about pricing, right? Heh. In time, I am sure they will find a way to "enhance" the outfit slots, as well. I'm not going to give them suggestions, but I can think of some ways to they could "enhance" them.

While I appreciate the sentiment in the thread, and agree with it, it is not like anything that is said in the forums will have an effect on marketing. They don't care. They have already decided.

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

ETA: Those numbers. Holy-you-know-what. Well, that's that then. This is basically a license to print money so I don't think there's much hope that this is just a "phase".

Billion. I knew it was big business and dev costs were astronomical but this is truly astounding in scale and scope.

Amazing, isn't it? You know what you don't see, though? You don't see the games getting better in equal measure. Right?

Dunno, actually. Only recently returned to ESO and haven't played much aside from a stint of SWTOR in past couple years so I'm not qualified to answer this. I do think ESO is brilliant and am quite enjoying myself. I also enjoyed SWTOR (the writing!) but they took a turn that irritated me so I flounced.

themaddaedra · April 2018

There's this ironic part where i most fall for, which is ZoS wanting us to play and spend more and more hours in game (considering the truth they retain people from deconstructing hoarded jewellery only because they want them to grind hard, and they are now introducing daily log in rewards) and yet they don't give any considerable rewards for doing that.

I mean what reward does the game offer to people who play long hours every day in either PvP or PvE? I'm not noticing anything comparable to stuff that's in crown store.

So i would just like them to decide either they want us play the game consistently or not.

MajesticHaruki · April 2018

Why doesn't zos focus on expanding the player base instead of recoloring or adding cool stuff in crown store?

xbobx · April 2018

MajesticHaruki wrote: »

Why doesn't zos focus on expanding the player base instead of recoloring or adding cool stuff in crown store?

because they are too inexperienced

Elsonso · April 2018

MajesticHaruki wrote: »

Why doesn't zos focus on expanding the player base instead of recoloring or adding cool stuff in crown store?

Well, the cynic in me suggests that it is because they are building a Massive Marketing Online, complete with an attached game. The natural development progression for ESO is going to move towards the game being nothing more than the delivery system for players to get to the cash shop. In this model, the game is more of a "hobby" that the developers work on when they are not working on their real job of new cash store stuff.

The realist in me knows that they are trying to walk a balance point between monetization and game. The two work symbiotically to attract both players and revenue. I fully support and understand this, but my desired balance point is nowhere near theirs. Consequently, ESO has a declining value, and I spend less money on it over time, even as they add more stuff.

Sevn · April 2018

No doubt. The more they try and nickle and dime me the tighter my purse strings draw. Isn't the person who ruined swtor now basically in charge of the crown store?

They will ruin this game too and move on.

Turelus · April 2018

MajesticHaruki wrote: »

Why doesn't zos focus on expanding the player base instead of recoloring or adding cool stuff in crown store?

I'm pretty sure they do work on expanding it, it's also not going to be the Dame teams working on such things.

Vapirko · April 2018

And I possibly wouldn’t even mind if the updates and patches brought needed, intelligent changes to gameplay. If they revived IC, really took a hard look at the changes and thought them through, listened to any of the great ideas put forth by experienced and veteran players etc.

Arundo · April 2018

Time for those new MMO's to get released because ZO$ does not care about their game, they just make these short chapters to bring more cash shop stuff to grab cash.

Seems that the shared engine usage with SWTOR was a sign.

AlienatedGoat · April 2018

Arundo wrote: »

Time for those new MMO's to get released because ZO$ does not care about their game, they just make these short chapters to bring more cash shop stuff to grab cash.

Seems that the shared engine usage with SWTOR was a sign.

ESO hasn't used the Hero Engine since early development. ZOS created their own engine instead.

Why does everyone still think this?

Turelus · April 2018

Arundo wrote: »

Time for those new MMO's to get released because ZO$ does not care about their game, they just make these short chapters to bring more cash shop stuff to grab cash.

Seems that the shared engine usage with SWTOR was a sign.

The statement ZOS doesn't care about their game isn't fair. It's very clear the developers care about the game and have a passion for the content and stories they create.

The issue is that they also seem to be heavily influenced or directed by the marketing side so everything they make becomes a new system of monetisation.
I have no issues with ZOS' content nor with them making money, but I worry for future features when all the last big ones have been twisted to make money from. Then add to that the extreme prices ($15 for a single outfit slot) and we end up with a very bitter community.

Betsararie · April 2018

meh

zaria · April 2018

Turelus wrote: »

Akrasjel wrote: »

B2P for a BASE and DLCs, ESO+, "Microtransactions"... not enough they need more

It's not that bad yet... but where will this trend take us

We've seen where the trend takes us.

Removal of the option to buy all items from crates with gems. Breaking new motifs into chapters and placing them in Crates.

If those two alone don't show where this is heading and set off some alarm bells for people I don't know what will.

Removing the gems might easy result in less sales.
Think lots including me see gems as the primary change of getting item.
Change of getting an specialized specific item especially for the lower tires would be far more than 25 times more crates.
getting all the pages even if the lower tire would be far harder than radiant apex mounts.
We getting into territorium there opening the crates in it self become an grind same with buying 50 packs of them.

In short it would leave the crates only for them with to much money and no understanding of statistic.

Turelus · April 2018

zaria wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Akrasjel wrote: »

B2P for a BASE and DLCs, ESO+, "Microtransactions"... not enough they need more

It's not that bad yet... but where will this trend take us

We've seen where the trend takes us.

Removal of the option to buy all items from crates with gems. Breaking new motifs into chapters and placing them in Crates.

If those two alone don't show where this is heading and set off some alarm bells for people I don't know what will.

Removing the gems might easy result in less sales.
Think lots including me see gems as the primary change of getting item.
Change of getting an specialized specific item especially for the lower tires would be far more than 25 times more crates.
getting all the pages even if the lower tire would be far harder than radiant apex mounts.
We getting into territorium there opening the crates in it self become an grind same with buying 50 packs of them.

In short it would leave the crates only for them with to much money and no understanding of statistic.

I was talking about how they added the Radiant Apex category and thus ended the "everything can also be purchased for gems" which they launched with.
I hate crates in all games but I was more accepting that ZOS had an upper limit on those needed by adding gems, removal of that was a big insult to the player base.

NupidStoob · April 2018

There was quite the outrage when grim harlequinn was added as a crown exclusive motif. ZoS went with it anyways and look where we are now. Multiple crown exclusive motifs and soon apparently also crown crate exclusive motifs.

I already cancelled my sub during the recent server downtimes and haven't bought summerset yet either. I might just not bother getting it at this rate.

Motifs exclusive to crown crates is where we should draw the line.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2018

NupidStoob wrote: »

There was quite the outrage when grim harlequinn was added as a crown exclusive motif. ZoS went with it anyways and look where we are now. Multiple crown exclusive motifs and soon apparently also crown crate exclusive motifs.

There was an outrage when the crown shop first appeared. We thought everything should be obtainable via playing and not paying. Then came crown crates and now we're literally begging that stuff is offered directly for crowns and not via crates. As a result, the crown store (direct purchases) appears as the minor harm, and even "normal".

There was an outrage when rare motifs (such as glass motif) appeared in the crown store - because it was considered unfair competition to people farming it ingame. Then came crown store exclusive motifs - so that ingame motifs being offered for crowns appeared as a minor harm - end even normal. Now come crown CRATE exclusive motifs - so that crown store exclusive motifs appear as a minor harm - and even normal.

I could carry on and on... the point is, we let ZOS push our red line further and further every time, so that we are NOW begging for what we've complained about last year, because what we've had since is much worse. Just forget about the crown store altogether and play the game.

Arundo · April 2018

Turelus wrote: »

Arundo wrote: »

Time for those new MMO's to get released because ZO$ does not care about their game, they just make these short chapters to bring more cash shop stuff to grab cash.

Seems that the shared engine usage with SWTOR was a sign.

The statement ZOS doesn't care about their game isn't fair. It's very clear the developers care about the game and have a passion for the content and stories they create.

The issue is that they also seem to be heavily influenced or directed by the marketing side so everything they make becomes a new system of monetisation.
I have no issues with ZOS' content nor with them making money, but I worry for future features when all the last big ones have been twisted to make money from. Then add to that the extreme prices ($15 for a single outfit slot) and we end up with a very bitter community.

Well maybe so but there was a time you could get most items with spending reasonable cash but now everyting is getting more expensive and you need to pay for most stuff. Wonder why I have ESO+ from the release up till now.

Feanor · April 2018

Honestly, I fail to see the outrage. Gambling always has the risk of losing out attached. As long as they restrict this to cosmetic items it’s fine to me.

Turelus · April 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Honestly, I fail to see the outrage. Gambling always has the risk of losing out attached. As long as they restrict this to cosmetic items it’s fine to me.

That's fine for you, but not all the people who want cosmetics.

Cosmetics work because they're a big part of peoples enjoyment in video games and they don't trigger the P2W people. I have no problem with ZOS selling cosmetic items but it's getting more and more stupid with every update.

We've gone from cosmetics for direct purchase at low price to cosmetics broken into parts under RNG boxes. Whoever is running the show on this part of ZOS is really starting to push it to level which take the mick.

Feanor · April 2018

@Turelus

I concede that doing motif pages in crown crates is a next evolution step and really silly to me. I don’t think anyone’s ging to buy a zillion crates just for a chance to maybe complete the motif.

It all started with the Glass motif. At least we don’t need to buy Merethic Resin for another RNG layer longer

.

Still, they probably could put things straight into the store and watch the outrage when something costs more than 4K (helllo Great Elk). People will always complain unless they are getting a radiant quality mount for 500 crowns.

Turelus · April 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Turelus

I concede that doing motif pages in crown crates is a next evolution step and really silly to me. I don’t think anyone’s ging to buy a zillion crates just for a chance to maybe complete the motif.

It all started with the Glass motif. At least we don’t need to buy Merethic Resin for another RNG layer longer .

Still, they probably could put things straight into the store and watch the outrage when something costs more than 4K (helllo Great Elk). People will always complain unless they are getting a radiant quality mount for 500 crowns.

Someone yes, but most rational people would be fine with a direct purchase model with fair structured prices.

Feanor · April 2018

Turelus wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Turelus

I concede that doing motif pages in crown crates is a next evolution step and really silly to me. I don’t think anyone’s ging to buy a zillion crates just for a chance to maybe complete the motif.

It all started with the Glass motif. At least we don’t need to buy Merethic Resin for another RNG layer longer .

Still, they probably could put things straight into the store and watch the outrage when something costs more than 4K (helllo Great Elk). People will always complain unless they are getting a radiant quality mount for 500 crowns.

Someone yes, but most rational people would be fine with a direct purchase model with fair structured prices.

That begs the question, what is a fair price? The answer is very different and has to be so considering people have different spending power. Just look into any of the housing threads to see how different prices are perceived.

Breg_Magol · April 2018

I've been playing BDO until I couldn't stomach it's monetising of it's game ... and PA's monetising is downright TOXIC because it creates in game problems that can *conveniently* be made solvable by buying items in their cashstore.

ESO's monetising seems tame by comparison and it seems to be mainly for things that don't directly affect game progression ... or am I wrong?

Outfits @ $15?? Bargain! lol

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2018

Feanor wrote: »

I don’t think anyone’s ging to buy a zillion crates just for a chance to maybe complete the motif.

Never underestimate the crate buyers.

We've had several, even countless threads here of people buying crates, even an awful lot of them, and telling their "experience". Whether they were happy, regretful, angry, rational, emotional or confused, it all ended up in them buying crates... and likely to do it again, no matter what they promise to themselves.

In general, never underestimate the number of people ready to buy [what we consider] stupid things at [what we consider] stupid prices.

Feanor · April 2018

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I don’t think anyone’s ging to buy a zillion crates just for a chance to maybe complete the motif.

Never underestimate the crate buyers.

We've had several, even countless threads here of people buying crates, even an awful lot of them, and telling their "experience". Whether they were happy, regretful, angry, rational, emotional or confused, it all ended up in them buying crates... and likely to do it again, no matter what they promise to themselves.

In general, never underestimate the number of people ready to buy [what we consider] stupid things at [what we consider] stupid prices.

I don’t deny that. I was just pointing out that motif pages are hardly the same motivation as a radiant apex mount. It doesn’t make that much sense. Might be different if the pages were guaranteed drops. Then people would buy at least a 15 crate package.

WhoSlappedThePie · April 2018

Your post needs to be about urging people not to buy this crap. If nobody buys it then they won't keep selling it.

DieAlteHexe · April 2018

WhoSlappedThePie wrote: »

Your post needs to be about urging people not to buy this crap. If nobody buys it then they won't keep selling it.

This is true. However it'll never happen. Too many people enjoy it for good or ill.

Yigrok · April 2018

mikejezz wrote: »

To be fair regarding mounts, this game nails it better than WoW. There you pay to play and also have to pay for mounts on the store (I know they put a little bit of mounts in each expansion that can be obtained in raids.)

Here you actually can pay for mounts with the monthly crowns you get.

Actually, wow does it way better then ESO. Do you know how many mounts are available in WoW? I think there are over 250+, and only a few % are available from the shop. You actually get the rest by doing ingame activities and buying them with ingame gold. They have several mounts that are tied to nice riddles.

So WoW wins this one. ZOS needs to wake up and offer people more personalities/mounts by doing ingame content. It's fairly disgusting the way they are only bringing new stuff just to the store... I know they want money but they already are making quite a bit. It's time they give back to the community. But i guess that will never happen, greed is too strong with this one.

It saddens me actually, that whenever they announce new mounts/skins/personalities I have to say "I wonder how much money they cost or how many tries with the crates you have to take to actually get them"...

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2018

Feanor wrote: »

I don’t deny that. I was just pointing out that motif pages are hardly the same motivation as a radiant apex mount. It doesn’t make that much sense. Might be different if the pages were guaranteed drops. Then people would buy at least a 15 crate package.

That's a matter of taste. The maormer style looks very nice, and motifs gain a lot of usage value with the outfit system, since we can combine them without limitation.
Mounts on the other hand have all been too flashy shiny ghostly ugly for a long while, at least in my view. To me, the motif is more attractive than the apex radiant exclusive fancy whatever mounts. That is, if I were considering buying crates, which I'm not, I'd be tempted by the motif.

Turelus · April 2018

WhoSlappedThePie wrote: »

Your post needs to be about urging people not to buy this crap. If nobody buys it then they won't keep selling it.

I'm not going to tell people how to spend their money. It would also be hypocritical to do so as I buy Crowns and items from the store myself.

The point is how far ZOS continues to push things and that every new system they bring is just gets turned into yet a new monetised system.