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I have a great idea for race passives!
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Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭My argument is that we can have polymorphs and that is "Lore Ok" apparently but we can't just polymorph into the race we'd like?0 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »2.you suggestion doesnt match the lore from the single player games and you haven't provided a convincing explanation for why the lore should be thrown out so I must disagree with your suggestion.
It would be nice though if my Khajiit MagSorc wasn't forced to waste her Carnage passive cause it'd be pointless to use it.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!0 -
Maryal✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is a game, it needs to put the players in a position to make choices and those choices should each have pros and cons (that is part of the game). Racial passives is one of the choices a player makes when choosing their character (or opting for a race change token). For some players, the primary draw may be esthetics followed by the benefits the passives may bring. For other players, the primary draw is are the passive benefits and to a lesser degree the esthetics. These decisions put players in a position of having to choose and because everyone is choosing differently for different reasons, we have some level of diversity ... and this is part of the game.3 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
A "racial polymorph" would be entirely acceptable. You'd get a preset appearance and... well... everyone else using the same racial polymorph would have the same appearance... including clothing, which has always been part of the polymorph...My argument is that we can have polymorphs and that is "Lore Ok" apparently but we can't just polymorph into the race we'd like?
But that is not what people would want, right?
That is not what you were talking about after all...
Very well said!This is a game, it needs to put the players in a position to make choices and those choices should each have pros and cons (that is part of the game). Racial passives is one of the choices a player makes when choosing their character (or opting for a race change token). For some players, the primary draw may be esthetics followed by the benefits the passives may bring. For other players, the primary draw is are the passive benefits and to a lesser degree the esthetics. These decisions put players in a position of having to choose and because everyone is choosing differently for different reasons, we have some level of diversity ... and this is part of the game.
But sadly, there are always those who try and argue for not having to make chopices, for getting -both- their desired appearance and their desired passives.
If it was up to me, I would want -more- choices instead! Making people choose not only between races and classes, but... also making some guilds "either/or" choices. Giving class specializations to choose from. Adding cultural passives to choose from. and so on...
1 -
RupzSkooma✭✭✭✭No.
This idea is as great as all your other ideas!Edited by RupzSkooma on 12 April 2018 05:53Elder Kings II is a Role Playing Elder Scrolls mod for Crusader Kings III.2 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheShadowScout wrote: »
A "racial polymorph" would be entirely acceptable. You'd get a preset appearance and... well... everyone else using the same racial polymorph would have the same appearance... including clothing, which has always been part of the polymorph...My argument is that we can have polymorphs and that is "Lore Ok" apparently but we can't just polymorph into the race we'd like?
But that is not what people would want, right?
That is not what you were talking about after all...
Very well said!This is a game, it needs to put the players in a position to make choices and those choices should each have pros and cons (that is part of the game). Racial passives is one of the choices a player makes when choosing their character (or opting for a race change token). For some players, the primary draw may be esthetics followed by the benefits the passives may bring. For other players, the primary draw is are the passive benefits and to a lesser degree the esthetics. These decisions put players in a position of having to choose and because everyone is choosing differently for different reasons, we have some level of diversity ... and this is part of the game.
But sadly, there are always those who try and argue for not having to make chopices, for getting -both- their desired appearance and their desired passives.
If it was up to me, I would want -more- choices instead! Making people choose not only between races and classes, but... also making some guilds "either/or" choices. Giving class specializations to choose from. Adding cultural passives to choose from. and so on...
I don't think you like me very much.0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@TheShadowScout
Did you think that the Outfitting System was a good idea? Since prior to that, players had to make more choices on how they looked, based on what gear they used.
IMO if there is no competitive advantage, or advantage over another cosmetic setup, and it's purely cosmetic, I'm all for player choice. (However that does not mean it needs to be a requirement if it impedes progress on core game mechanics)
The core mechanics that need to have pros and cons are how a player interacts with the world. Which means that the Racial (Or what would now likely be called Birthsign) combinations are the only things that need to be balanced and restricted.
If you want to RP and stick to the lore, you can do that. But for a general audience, and for a larger player-base, I do not think Racial Sets being species locked is a requirement. This is not a Hardcore MMO, and these are only passives, and not animations made specifically for a certain skeleton model.Edited by Avran_Sylt on 12 April 2018 06:360 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
No, I didn't, and I still don't.Avran_Sylt wrote: »Did you think that the Outfitting System was a good idea?
I especially -hate- the part where you can make robes look like plate mail and axes like swords through the outfit system! (and before you mention it, yes, I hated that part for the costumes as well)
And I truly wish they would have given us a gear transmogrification system instead...
...but alas... ship, sailed, sunk, time ago.
-sigh-Avran_Sylt wrote: »The core mechanics that need to have pros and cons are how a player interacts with the world. Which means that the Racial (Or what would now likely be called Birthsign) combinations are the only things that need to be balanced and restricted.
Birthsigns are one thing. Used to be you picked those in an "which month was your character born" kind of way, these days you pick them from a stone more like... choosing which diety to worship or something. Also not a thing I am happy with but... eh...
Racial affinities a completely different thing. An orc is still an orc, no matter what month they are born in. (okay, so one might argue that things get a bit more complicated with Khajiit...)
Then we shall have to disagree here.Avran_Sylt wrote: »If you want to RP and stick to the lore, you can do that. But for a general audience, and for a larger player-base, I do not think Racial Sets being species locked is a requirement...
I happen to believe that the racial affinities described in the elder scrolls races lore should be kept "locked" in theme, that high elves should have the affinity for magic, that nords should have toughness and adaptation to cold, that redguards should have the benefits of generations upon generations of selection for warriors in their breeding, that argonians should have the perks of their lizard-ish ancestry and dunmer the fire-resisting effects of azuras "ashen skin" curse that made them what they are. And so on.
...though as you may have gathered from my other posts here and elsewhere on the subject, I also think that there should be changes made to make them less of a "must have" thing, and more of a "leg up at start, but not important in the endgame" thing to truly allow everyone to play as they want, yet preserve the flavor of the elder scrolls universe... and then add some -new- passives on top that -would- allow people to custoimize their characters to their playstyle, without having to throw away established TES lore.
...
But I suppose some just want to have everything, be able to pick both their favorite race and the best passives, and try to argue their opinion.
...
I guess you would also argue that elves in D&D should not have to have that constitusion penalty and dexterity bonus, but instead get to cherry-pick whatever "racial predispositions" they want right? Or Star Trek vulcans being able to trade in their green blood and strength bonus for something else...
...because that is basically what all those "let us freely select our passives" people are suggesting.0 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Huh? RP would be totally lost as completely lore breaking.
All that's left is looks, do we really want that as an ESO game, purely cosmetic?? if it was some cheap kids MMO fine, but its ESO and race should mean something.
In most games racials don't matter this much. Also, aesthetics are important to player identity. We love costumes, outfit systems, dyes, it's what makes the game fun.
The current level of diversity is low. We have very few Nord's, very few orc, among others.
Why not just let us choose?
They give us polymorphs what would be the difference? Why not give us polymorph's for other races with some customization.
I disagree totally. That's your opinion on what's important, for me its some kind of lore or belonging. Races should mean more not less.
I'm EP, I don't want to fight alongside high elfs, or Khajeet. What's important to you in a very liberal way actually impacts what I want from the game more should be made of alliance, and race.
And beside what you are saying can be inverted. You are actually after stats really aren't you? You want the best stats but to look how you want. And no, choices have consequences.
Thus isn't other bland MMOs and many of us would lose e joynent if it was.
It's the same argument about people hiding vampire. Hell next we might as well let outifts change DW to M16's because someone wants a COD look.
The game has drifted too far already, race needs to mean more not less, some of us like the lore and racial differences, that's our enjoyment.Xbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach1 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am quoting VaranisArano here
" I'm the powerful Mage/Thief/Warrior who smashed the Worm Cult to bits, took out the trash with expelled former Psijic student Mannimarco, defeated Molag Bal in single combat, Champion of Meridia, Hero of the Pact, Dominion and Covenant thanks to Meridia covering for me, Senior Officer in my Alliance Army, Liberator of the Dragonfire Cathedral, Hero of Wrothgar, friends with various unsavory sorts who are better left unsaid, Champion of Vivec, Savior of Morrowind, and the person who just kicked Nocturnal's and Clavicus Vile's butts when they tried to takeover the Clockwork City. "
If we are all of those things why can't we be a magic gifted RedGuard?
You can.
Put your attributes in magika, run magika sets. Done
Will you excel the last few % no. Nor should you be on par with a high elf.Xbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach4 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Personally id like more right wing divide. In PvP of Orcs / Nords where uber tanky say and it was them always on the ram or in breaches it would be cool
Now we talk about classes. We spot the Templar as healer etc but if we spotted by race top it would add a real dynamic. I'd love to see Orc only guilds charging about etc.
I see the logic behind every single suggestion you make @Knowledge but at ever bend you seem to want to lessen the game. Simplify it. Move it away from being ESO. I assume you have a MMO background, WOW perhaps? I don't. Not interested. I'm.here because of how ESO is, its different, not just a bland MMO for kids same as all the others.
Making it uber casual or generic really would ruin it.Xbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach0 -
DanteYoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭How about they make all racial passives useful...
Many of them now are beyond useless and pointless in the end game of ESO.. The way they have designed the skills and stats is moronic and really needs looking at which is why so many go stam red guards on all melee and high elves on Magic.. because no other classes and races need to exist...
Meta ruins everything.. These races and classes need overhauls so all races can be useful at end game..
Seriously how does swimming twice as fast help me..Edited by DanteYoda on 12 April 2018 08:100 -
Kendaric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I actually have a great idea for racial passives:
Leave them as they are.2 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭How about they make all racial passives useful...
Many of them now are beyond useless and pointless in the end game of ESO.. The way they have designed the skills and stats is moronic and really needs looking at which is why so many go stam red guards on all melee and high elves on Magic.. because no other classes and races need to exist...
Meta ruins everything.. These races and classes need overhauls so all races can be useful at end game..
Seriously how does swimming twice as fast help me..
Well, fast swim speed has been useful a tine or two in PVP and I think there's one quest in the Rift that involves a swimming race...
But yeah.
That's one problem I have with the cherrypicking of racial passives. Not only would people choose the BIS ones like max magicka or max stamina, most of the flavor ones don't make sense apart from their race. Tell me how your Breton wound up with a Dunmer's fire resistance? How did an Altmer wind up with a Bosmer's fall damage bonuses (you laugh but my Bosmer raid lead in PVP takes us over cliffs all the time)? Those bonuses, like a Nord's resistance to frost, arent learned but are traits of their race.
So if we eliminate the flavor traits from this picking of bonuses, we're right back to either reducing the impact of certain bonuses through softcaps etc. or players using mundus stones and building for a certain direction despite not performing at top of the line marks.0 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭Huh? RP would be totally lost as completely lore breaking.
All that's left is looks, do we really want that as an ESO game, purely cosmetic?? if it was some cheap kids MMO fine, but its ESO and race should mean something.
In most games racials don't matter this much. Also, aesthetics are important to player identity. We love costumes, outfit systems, dyes, it's what makes the game fun.
The current level of diversity is low. We have very few Nord's, very few orc, among others.
Why not just let us choose?
They give us polymorphs what would be the difference? Why not give us polymorph's for other races with some customization.
I disagree totally. That's your opinion on what's important, for me its some kind of lore or belonging. Races should mean more not less.
I'm EP, I don't want to fight alongside high elfs, or Khajeet. What's important to you in a very liberal way actually impacts what I want from the game more should be made of alliance, and race.
And beside what you are saying can be inverted. You are actually after stats really aren't you? You want the best stats but to look how you want. And no, choices have consequences.
Thus isn't other bland MMOs and many of us would lose e joynent if it was.
It's the same argument about people hiding vampire. Hell next we might as well let outifts change DW to M16's because someone wants a COD look.
The game has drifted too far already, race needs to mean more not less, some of us like the lore and racial differences, that's our enjoyment.
Well, we already have "every race every alliance".0 -
Varidian✭✭✭Instead of rebalancing the races and constantly changing them why not just leave the existing templates in place but we get to choose what we look like! For example, if you wanted to be an Imperial with Red Guard racial passives you could!
You could also be a Khajit with Altmer passives!
I think this is the right way to go about it and the lore argument can't really hold anymore due to many reasons. We're all going to be in Psijic Order which doesn't really make much sense so why not just let us look how we want with the passives we want?
so... you basically want to throw all the culture and lore out the window... because you want to be an OP nord wizard
or a woodelf with the red guard abilities
sorry but I don't like this idea at all.... it defiles the entire purpose of racial passivesThe Blood Sons Of Sekt2 -
IlCanis_LupuslI✭✭✭✭✭Instead of making passives not race dependent, make that all % passives (e. G. 6% stamina of woodelf turns onto 2,5k stamina and the 21% reg into 420 stamina reg)
That would make it not quite so bad beeing a e. G. Woodelf magsorc in PvP. And take awaythose stupid stealth damage passives!!!! @ZOS_GinaBruno
Xbox-EU-AD
Khajiit Night blade Healer(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer Grand Overlord
Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
Khajiit(Master Race) Templar Healer, Flawless Conquerer
Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wrathstone-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 50k dps with fracture, Pvp Healer.0 -
myskyrim26✭✭✭✭✭
✭Instead of rebalancing the races and constantly changing them why not just leave the existing templates in place but we get to choose what we look like! For example, if you wanted to be an Imperial with Red Guard racial passives you could!
You could also be a Khajit with Altmer passives!
I think this is the right way to go about it and the lore argument can't really hold anymore due to many reasons. We're all going to be in Psijic Order which doesn't really make much sense so why not just let us look how we want with the passives we want?
This is just what I was thinking of. A great idea, really! Thank you for posting it!0 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Huh? RP would be totally lost as completely lore breaking.
All that's left is looks, do we really want that as an ESO game, purely cosmetic?? if it was some cheap kids MMO fine, but its ESO and race should mean something.
In most games racials don't matter this much. Also, aesthetics are important to player identity. We love costumes, outfit systems, dyes, it's what makes the game fun.
The current level of diversity is low. We have very few Nord's, very few orc, among others.
Why not just let us choose?
They give us polymorphs what would be the difference? Why not give us polymorph's for other races with some customization.
I disagree totally. That's your opinion on what's important, for me its some kind of lore or belonging. Races should mean more not less.
I'm EP, I don't want to fight alongside high elfs, or Khajeet. What's important to you in a very liberal way actually impacts what I want from the game more should be made of alliance, and race.
And beside what you are saying can be inverted. You are actually after stats really aren't you? You want the best stats but to look how you want. And no, choices have consequences.
Thus isn't other bland MMOs and many of us would lose e joynent if it was.
It's the same argument about people hiding vampire. Hell next we might as well let outifts change DW to M16's because someone wants a COD look.
The game has drifted too far already, race needs to mean more not less, some of us like the lore and racial differences, that's our enjoyment.
Well, we already have "every race every alliance".
I know, and I've already said if I had my way that pack wouldn't be a thing. Granted my alts / mules are one of each race to see then all.
It's this drive to flatten everything, be a vamp, looking like an Orc but be an all powerfull Sorc its just odd.
Anyway its not a change they will consider IMHO so its another mute debateXbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach0 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭Instead of rebalancing the races and constantly changing them why not just leave the existing templates in place but we get to choose what we look like! For example, if you wanted to be an Imperial with Red Guard racial passives you could!
You could also be a Khajit with Altmer passives!
I think this is the right way to go about it and the lore argument can't really hold anymore due to many reasons. We're all going to be in Psijic Order which doesn't really make much sense so why not just let us look how we want with the passives we want?
Been talked about since beta. Won't happen.0 -
N00BxV1✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'd like it if I could choose from a pool of passives to build my characters the way I want to, and not be locked into certain races depending on if I was playing a magicka or stamina build. I really don't like that to be efficient with certain builds you'd need to choose specific races. Want to be efficient at magicka? Choose Altmer, Breton, etc. Want to be efficient at stamina? Choose Redguard, Bosmer, etc. If you decided to play a magicka Redguard or a stamina Altmer you'd be gimping yourself and would receive no benefits from their passives. And yes you can tell a difference with some of the racial passives - X% resources/recovery/reduction/damage is noticeable, why else would people suggest specific races for builds.0 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »1. If you bothered to come back to your Psijic Order post, you'd have seen my response to you there. Namely, that the Psijic Order in Skyrim shows the ability to see the future potential in the Dragonborn, and thus the Vestige, with their power/potential is a perfect candidate for the Psijic Order. But I await your response on that thread.
2.you suggestion doesnt match the lore from the single player games and you haven't provided a convincing explanation for why the lore should be thrown out so I must disagree with your suggestion.
Edited to add: @Knowledge In case you've forgotten or lost track or something, here's your thread about the farfetchedness of the Psijic Order accepting the Vestige, in which I lay out a fairly detailed rebuttal to your position and have repeatedly invited you back to debate it.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/401988/doesnt-it-seem-a-little-far-fetched-that-were-all-going-to-be-psijic-order-members/p1
My Rebuttal is better in the context of that thread, but under the spoiler for size:Succinctly, and so that I am on topic in addition to responding to your comment to me, my rebuttal to the OP's argument is simple.
Thesis: The Psijic Order is too powerful to accept everyone and anyone AKA the player characters.
Point 1: My main character and probably the established characters of most experienced players, are pretty darned powerful. Unless the Psijic Order is kicking daedric butt on a daily basis (and they clearly aren't since they need our help), we're probably right on par with some of their members. Mannimarco and Vanus were Psijics. I rescued Vanus and kicked Mannimarco's but, so talk to me again about power levels?
Point 2: New characters have the potential to do great things. In Skyrim, the Psijic Order helps out the player character because they have the potential to save the world from the Eye of Magnus fiasco. So clearly the Psijic Order can recognize potential and help out heros...and now we're wrapping back to Point 1 again. Who wouldn't want a hero with the potential for that kind of power on their side?
So I disagree with the OP's thesis because the Psijic Order has ample reason to want a powerful or potentially powerful player character on their side, and that matches with their characterization from Skyrim.
muh lore
What part of your in-game experience is effected by a Khajit having 10% more magicka recovery? Can you see their stats floating above their head with the text "BREAKS LORE"?Gryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer0 -
Kodrac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »1. If you bothered to come back to your Psijic Order post, you'd have seen my response to you there. Namely, that the Psijic Order in Skyrim shows the ability to see the future potential in the Dragonborn, and thus the Vestige, with their power/potential is a perfect candidate for the Psijic Order. But I await your response on that thread.
2.you suggestion doesnt match the lore from the single player games and you haven't provided a convincing explanation for why the lore should be thrown out so I must disagree with your suggestion.
Edited to add: @Knowledge In case you've forgotten or lost track or something, here's your thread about the farfetchedness of the Psijic Order accepting the Vestige, in which I lay out a fairly detailed rebuttal to your position and have repeatedly invited you back to debate it.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/401988/doesnt-it-seem-a-little-far-fetched-that-were-all-going-to-be-psijic-order-members/p1
My Rebuttal is better in the context of that thread, but under the spoiler for size:Succinctly, and so that I am on topic in addition to responding to your comment to me, my rebuttal to the OP's argument is simple.
Thesis: The Psijic Order is too powerful to accept everyone and anyone AKA the player characters.
Point 1: My main character and probably the established characters of most experienced players, are pretty darned powerful. Unless the Psijic Order is kicking daedric butt on a daily basis (and they clearly aren't since they need our help), we're probably right on par with some of their members. Mannimarco and Vanus were Psijics. I rescued Vanus and kicked Mannimarco's but, so talk to me again about power levels?
Point 2: New characters have the potential to do great things. In Skyrim, the Psijic Order helps out the player character because they have the potential to save the world from the Eye of Magnus fiasco. So clearly the Psijic Order can recognize potential and help out heros...and now we're wrapping back to Point 1 again. Who wouldn't want a hero with the potential for that kind of power on their side?
So I disagree with the OP's thesis because the Psijic Order has ample reason to want a powerful or potentially powerful player character on their side, and that matches with their characterization from Skyrim.
muh lore
What part of your in-game experience is effected by a Khajit having 10% more magicka recovery? Can you see their stats floating above their head with the text "BREAKS LORE"?
That's a good name for an Argonian. An AD Stamina Sorcerer Argonian.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »1. If you bothered to come back to your Psijic Order post, you'd have seen my response to you there. Namely, that the Psijic Order in Skyrim shows the ability to see the future potential in the Dragonborn, and thus the Vestige, with their power/potential is a perfect candidate for the Psijic Order. But I await your response on that thread.
2.you suggestion doesnt match the lore from the single player games and you haven't provided a convincing explanation for why the lore should be thrown out so I must disagree with your suggestion.
Edited to add: @Knowledge In case you've forgotten or lost track or something, here's your thread about the farfetchedness of the Psijic Order accepting the Vestige, in which I lay out a fairly detailed rebuttal to your position and have repeatedly invited you back to debate it.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/401988/doesnt-it-seem-a-little-far-fetched-that-were-all-going-to-be-psijic-order-members/p1
My Rebuttal is better in the context of that thread, but under the spoiler for size:Succinctly, and so that I am on topic in addition to responding to your comment to me, my rebuttal to the OP's argument is simple.
Thesis: The Psijic Order is too powerful to accept everyone and anyone AKA the player characters.
Point 1: My main character and probably the established characters of most experienced players, are pretty darned powerful. Unless the Psijic Order is kicking daedric butt on a daily basis (and they clearly aren't since they need our help), we're probably right on par with some of their members. Mannimarco and Vanus were Psijics. I rescued Vanus and kicked Mannimarco's but, so talk to me again about power levels?
Point 2: New characters have the potential to do great things. In Skyrim, the Psijic Order helps out the player character because they have the potential to save the world from the Eye of Magnus fiasco. So clearly the Psijic Order can recognize potential and help out heros...and now we're wrapping back to Point 1 again. Who wouldn't want a hero with the potential for that kind of power on their side?
So I disagree with the OP's thesis because the Psijic Order has ample reason to want a powerful or potentially powerful player character on their side, and that matches with their characterization from Skyrim.
muh lore
What part of your in-game experience is effected by a Khajit having 10% more magicka recovery? Can you see their stats floating above their head with the text "BREAKS LORE"?
Hey, nothing breaks the lore. There's even a specific type of Khajiit that probably does have magicka recovery, the Alfiq! Or the Dagi! Or the Dagi-raht! All of whom are spellcasters. (And about the size of a housecat for Alfiq and smaller and lighter than Bosmer for the Dagi and Dagi-raht)
Mind you, every player character Khajiit so far is a Suthay-raht...
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Khajiit#Sub-species_Notes
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mixed_Unit_Tactics
If you add more Khajiit sub-speciices to the playable character list, I'll have zero problems with it from a lore perspective. Until then, we should probably stick closer to the Suthay-raht racial descriptions from the other single-player games, thanks.0 -
Varidian✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »1. If you bothered to come back to your Psijic Order post, you'd have seen my response to you there. Namely, that the Psijic Order in Skyrim shows the ability to see the future potential in the Dragonborn, and thus the Vestige, with their power/potential is a perfect candidate for the Psijic Order. But I await your response on that thread.
2.you suggestion doesnt match the lore from the single player games and you haven't provided a convincing explanation for why the lore should be thrown out so I must disagree with your suggestion.
Edited to add: @Knowledge In case you've forgotten or lost track or something, here's your thread about the farfetchedness of the Psijic Order accepting the Vestige, in which I lay out a fairly detailed rebuttal to your position and have repeatedly invited you back to debate it.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/401988/doesnt-it-seem-a-little-far-fetched-that-were-all-going-to-be-psijic-order-members/p1
My Rebuttal is better in the context of that thread, but under the spoiler for size:Succinctly, and so that I am on topic in addition to responding to your comment to me, my rebuttal to the OP's argument is simple.
Thesis: The Psijic Order is too powerful to accept everyone and anyone AKA the player characters.
Point 1: My main character and probably the established characters of most experienced players, are pretty darned powerful. Unless the Psijic Order is kicking daedric butt on a daily basis (and they clearly aren't since they need our help), we're probably right on par with some of their members. Mannimarco and Vanus were Psijics. I rescued Vanus and kicked Mannimarco's but, so talk to me again about power levels?
Point 2: New characters have the potential to do great things. In Skyrim, the Psijic Order helps out the player character because they have the potential to save the world from the Eye of Magnus fiasco. So clearly the Psijic Order can recognize potential and help out heros...and now we're wrapping back to Point 1 again. Who wouldn't want a hero with the potential for that kind of power on their side?
So I disagree with the OP's thesis because the Psijic Order has ample reason to want a powerful or potentially powerful player character on their side, and that matches with their characterization from Skyrim.
muh lore
What part of your in-game experience is effected by a Khajit having 10% more magicka recovery? Can you see their stats floating above their head with the text "BREAKS LORE"?
why not just enchant your armour then..... and save us all a fourth day of downtimeThe Blood Sons Of Sekt1 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »1. If you bothered to come back to your Psijic Order post, you'd have seen my response to you there. Namely, that the Psijic Order in Skyrim shows the ability to see the future potential in the Dragonborn, and thus the Vestige, with their power/potential is a perfect candidate for the Psijic Order. But I await your response on that thread.
2.you suggestion doesnt match the lore from the single player games and you haven't provided a convincing explanation for why the lore should be thrown out so I must disagree with your suggestion.
Edited to add: @Knowledge In case you've forgotten or lost track or something, here's your thread about the farfetchedness of the Psijic Order accepting the Vestige, in which I lay out a fairly detailed rebuttal to your position and have repeatedly invited you back to debate it.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/401988/doesnt-it-seem-a-little-far-fetched-that-were-all-going-to-be-psijic-order-members/p1
My Rebuttal is better in the context of that thread, but under the spoiler for size:Succinctly, and so that I am on topic in addition to responding to your comment to me, my rebuttal to the OP's argument is simple.
Thesis: The Psijic Order is too powerful to accept everyone and anyone AKA the player characters.
Point 1: My main character and probably the established characters of most experienced players, are pretty darned powerful. Unless the Psijic Order is kicking daedric butt on a daily basis (and they clearly aren't since they need our help), we're probably right on par with some of their members. Mannimarco and Vanus were Psijics. I rescued Vanus and kicked Mannimarco's but, so talk to me again about power levels?
Point 2: New characters have the potential to do great things. In Skyrim, the Psijic Order helps out the player character because they have the potential to save the world from the Eye of Magnus fiasco. So clearly the Psijic Order can recognize potential and help out heros...and now we're wrapping back to Point 1 again. Who wouldn't want a hero with the potential for that kind of power on their side?
So I disagree with the OP's thesis because the Psijic Order has ample reason to want a powerful or potentially powerful player character on their side, and that matches with their characterization from Skyrim.
muh lore
What part of your in-game experience is effected by a Khajit having 10% more magicka recovery? Can you see their stats floating above their head with the text "BREAKS LORE"?
Hey, nothing breaks the lore. There's even a specific type of Khajiit that probably does have magicka recovery, the Alfiq! Or the Dagi! Or the Dagi-raht! All of whom are spellcasters. (And about the size of a housecat for Alfiq and smaller and lighter than Bosmer for the Dagi and Dagi-raht)
Mind you, every player character Khajiit so far is a Suthay-raht...
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Khajiit#Sub-species_Notes
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mixed_Unit_Tactics
If you add more Khajiit sub-speciices to the playable character list, I'll have zero problems with it from a lore perspective. Until then, we should probably stick closer to the Suthay-raht racial descriptions from the other single-player games, thanks.
You didn't really answer my question. What part of it negatively impacts your experience in the game?Gryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer0 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »1. If you bothered to come back to your Psijic Order post, you'd have seen my response to you there. Namely, that the Psijic Order in Skyrim shows the ability to see the future potential in the Dragonborn, and thus the Vestige, with their power/potential is a perfect candidate for the Psijic Order. But I await your response on that thread.
2.you suggestion doesnt match the lore from the single player games and you haven't provided a convincing explanation for why the lore should be thrown out so I must disagree with your suggestion.
Edited to add: @Knowledge In case you've forgotten or lost track or something, here's your thread about the farfetchedness of the Psijic Order accepting the Vestige, in which I lay out a fairly detailed rebuttal to your position and have repeatedly invited you back to debate it.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/401988/doesnt-it-seem-a-little-far-fetched-that-were-all-going-to-be-psijic-order-members/p1
My Rebuttal is better in the context of that thread, but under the spoiler for size:Succinctly, and so that I am on topic in addition to responding to your comment to me, my rebuttal to the OP's argument is simple.
Thesis: The Psijic Order is too powerful to accept everyone and anyone AKA the player characters.
Point 1: My main character and probably the established characters of most experienced players, are pretty darned powerful. Unless the Psijic Order is kicking daedric butt on a daily basis (and they clearly aren't since they need our help), we're probably right on par with some of their members. Mannimarco and Vanus were Psijics. I rescued Vanus and kicked Mannimarco's but, so talk to me again about power levels?
Point 2: New characters have the potential to do great things. In Skyrim, the Psijic Order helps out the player character because they have the potential to save the world from the Eye of Magnus fiasco. So clearly the Psijic Order can recognize potential and help out heros...and now we're wrapping back to Point 1 again. Who wouldn't want a hero with the potential for that kind of power on their side?
So I disagree with the OP's thesis because the Psijic Order has ample reason to want a powerful or potentially powerful player character on their side, and that matches with their characterization from Skyrim.
muh lore
What part of your in-game experience is effected by a Khajit having 10% more magicka recovery? Can you see their stats floating above their head with the text "BREAKS LORE"?
Hey, nothing breaks the lore. There's even a specific type of Khajiit that probably does have magicka recovery, the Alfiq! Or the Dagi! Or the Dagi-raht! All of whom are spellcasters. (And about the size of a housecat for Alfiq and smaller and lighter than Bosmer for the Dagi and Dagi-raht)
Mind you, every player character Khajiit so far is a Suthay-raht...
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Khajiit#Sub-species_Notes
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mixed_Unit_Tactics
If you add more Khajiit sub-speciices to the playable character list, I'll have zero problems with it from a lore perspective. Until then, we should probably stick closer to the Suthay-raht racial descriptions from the other single-player games, thanks.
For some reason I think you believe The Elder Scrolls lore is air tight, has never conflicted, or contradicted its self. I also believe you think the writers have never had to make changes or additions just to somewhat cover up major issues within it.
If you read it in its entirety you'll know there are far greater issues, contradictions, and lore-breaking decisions that dwarf something as basic as a Khajiit that can have extra magicka regeneration.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »1. If you bothered to come back to your Psijic Order post, you'd have seen my response to you there. Namely, that the Psijic Order in Skyrim shows the ability to see the future potential in the Dragonborn, and thus the Vestige, with their power/potential is a perfect candidate for the Psijic Order. But I await your response on that thread.
2.you suggestion doesnt match the lore from the single player games and you haven't provided a convincing explanation for why the lore should be thrown out so I must disagree with your suggestion.
Edited to add: @Knowledge In case you've forgotten or lost track or something, here's your thread about the farfetchedness of the Psijic Order accepting the Vestige, in which I lay out a fairly detailed rebuttal to your position and have repeatedly invited you back to debate it.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/401988/doesnt-it-seem-a-little-far-fetched-that-were-all-going-to-be-psijic-order-members/p1
My Rebuttal is better in the context of that thread, but under the spoiler for size:Succinctly, and so that I am on topic in addition to responding to your comment to me, my rebuttal to the OP's argument is simple.
Thesis: The Psijic Order is too powerful to accept everyone and anyone AKA the player characters.
Point 1: My main character and probably the established characters of most experienced players, are pretty darned powerful. Unless the Psijic Order is kicking daedric butt on a daily basis (and they clearly aren't since they need our help), we're probably right on par with some of their members. Mannimarco and Vanus were Psijics. I rescued Vanus and kicked Mannimarco's but, so talk to me again about power levels?
Point 2: New characters have the potential to do great things. In Skyrim, the Psijic Order helps out the player character because they have the potential to save the world from the Eye of Magnus fiasco. So clearly the Psijic Order can recognize potential and help out heros...and now we're wrapping back to Point 1 again. Who wouldn't want a hero with the potential for that kind of power on their side?
So I disagree with the OP's thesis because the Psijic Order has ample reason to want a powerful or potentially powerful player character on their side, and that matches with their characterization from Skyrim.
muh lore
What part of your in-game experience is effected by a Khajit having 10% more magicka recovery? Can you see their stats floating above their head with the text "BREAKS LORE"?
Hey, nothing breaks the lore. There's even a specific type of Khajiit that probably does have magicka recovery, the Alfiq! Or the Dagi! Or the Dagi-raht! All of whom are spellcasters. (And about the size of a housecat for Alfiq and smaller and lighter than Bosmer for the Dagi and Dagi-raht)
Mind you, every player character Khajiit so far is a Suthay-raht...
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Khajiit#Sub-species_Notes
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mixed_Unit_Tactics
If you add more Khajiit sub-speciices to the playable character list, I'll have zero problems with it from a lore perspective. Until then, we should probably stick closer to the Suthay-raht racial descriptions from the other single-player games, thanks.
You didn't really answer my question. What part of it negatively impacts your experience in the game?
So you asked my problem with a Khajiit having magicka recovery.
I don't have a problem with it! Dagi, Dagi-raht, and Alfiq khajiit would fit that perfectly (purr-fectly?) I'd love for ESO to include more Khajiit subspecies.
Its just that judging by Skyrim, Oblivion, and Morrowind the Suthay-raht type of Khajiit played by the player characters dont have much in the way of magical racial bonuses.
That may not be the answer you want, but thats the answer I'm giving.1 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »1. If you bothered to come back to your Psijic Order post, you'd have seen my response to you there. Namely, that the Psijic Order in Skyrim shows the ability to see the future potential in the Dragonborn, and thus the Vestige, with their power/potential is a perfect candidate for the Psijic Order. But I await your response on that thread.
2.you suggestion doesnt match the lore from the single player games and you haven't provided a convincing explanation for why the lore should be thrown out so I must disagree with your suggestion.
Edited to add: @Knowledge In case you've forgotten or lost track or something, here's your thread about the farfetchedness of the Psijic Order accepting the Vestige, in which I lay out a fairly detailed rebuttal to your position and have repeatedly invited you back to debate it.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/401988/doesnt-it-seem-a-little-far-fetched-that-were-all-going-to-be-psijic-order-members/p1
My Rebuttal is better in the context of that thread, but under the spoiler for size:Succinctly, and so that I am on topic in addition to responding to your comment to me, my rebuttal to the OP's argument is simple.
Thesis: The Psijic Order is too powerful to accept everyone and anyone AKA the player characters.
Point 1: My main character and probably the established characters of most experienced players, are pretty darned powerful. Unless the Psijic Order is kicking daedric butt on a daily basis (and they clearly aren't since they need our help), we're probably right on par with some of their members. Mannimarco and Vanus were Psijics. I rescued Vanus and kicked Mannimarco's but, so talk to me again about power levels?
Point 2: New characters have the potential to do great things. In Skyrim, the Psijic Order helps out the player character because they have the potential to save the world from the Eye of Magnus fiasco. So clearly the Psijic Order can recognize potential and help out heros...and now we're wrapping back to Point 1 again. Who wouldn't want a hero with the potential for that kind of power on their side?
So I disagree with the OP's thesis because the Psijic Order has ample reason to want a powerful or potentially powerful player character on their side, and that matches with their characterization from Skyrim.
muh lore
What part of your in-game experience is effected by a Khajit having 10% more magicka recovery? Can you see their stats floating above their head with the text "BREAKS LORE"?
Hey, nothing breaks the lore. There's even a specific type of Khajiit that probably does have magicka recovery, the Alfiq! Or the Dagi! Or the Dagi-raht! All of whom are spellcasters. (And about the size of a housecat for Alfiq and smaller and lighter than Bosmer for the Dagi and Dagi-raht)
Mind you, every player character Khajiit so far is a Suthay-raht...
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Khajiit#Sub-species_Notes
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mixed_Unit_Tactics
If you add more Khajiit sub-speciices to the playable character list, I'll have zero problems with it from a lore perspective. Until then, we should probably stick closer to the Suthay-raht racial descriptions from the other single-player games, thanks.
You didn't really answer my question. What part of it negatively impacts your experience in the game?
So you asked my problem with a Khajiit having magicka recovery.
I don't have a problem with it! Dagi, Dagi-raht, and Alfiq khajiit would fit that perfectly (purr-fectly?) I'd love for ESO to include more Khajiit subspecies.
Its just that judging by Skyrim, Oblivion, and Morrowind the Suthay-raht type of Khajiit played by the player characters dont have much in the way of magical racial bonuses.
That may not be the answer you want, but thats the answer I'm giving.
From this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/123147/why-does-this-game-insist-on-totally-breaking-the-lore/p1
" This game has pretty much gone totally against all the lore that is cannon. Lets get started and set the record straight:
1. Why the Soul Burst couldn't happen
1. Alduin's Wall - Alduin's Wall was constructed by the Akaviri Dragonguard in the 1st era 2812 (written before the events of TESO). Alduin's Wall makes prophecies about the coming of Alduin's Return, Those prophecies are.
1. When misrule takes its place at the eight corners of the world - This is referring to TES:Arena when Jagar Tharn impersonated Uriel Septim VII using the Staff of Chaos while imprisoning the Real Emperor during the Imperial Simulacrum. The Destruction of the Staff of Chaos slightly weakened the barrier between Nirn and Oblivion.
2. When the Brass Tower walks and Time is reshaped -This is refering to the events of TES:Daggerfall and the return of Numindium (which is a tower) and the Dragon Breaking of Time known as the "Warp In the West" The Numindium completely disappears thus signaling the deactivation of the Brass Tower and the weakening of the seal between Oblivion and Nirn.
3. When the thrice-blessed fail and the Red Tower trembles - This refers to the Tribunal of Morrowind Alamlexia, Vivec, and Sotha Sil losing their powers to Dagoth Ur and later being killed, and the Destruction of the Heart of Lorkhan. This event de-activated the Red Tower. It also predicts the Ministry of Truth, that was being held in place by magical means, crashing into Vicec City causing Red Mountain to erupt destroying most of Morrowind.
4. When the Dragonborn Ruler loses his throne, and the White Tower falls - This predicts Uriel Septim VII being Assassinated by the Mythic Dawn, and the Septim Dynasty dieing out with the death of Martin Septim. It also predicts the Dragonfires not being lit.
It also predicts the de-activation of the White Gold Tower with the Destruction of the Amulet of Kings (Which Martin Septim Destroyed the Amulet of Kings, and used its power inside to become the Avatar of the Dragon God Akatosh himself to do Battle with Mehrunes Dagon who had came to Tamriel to destroy all of Nirn...after a raging battle between the Giant Mehrunes Dagon and the Flaming Dragon God Akatosh, Akatosh finally defeated Dagon and sent him back to Oblivion...at the cost of the destruction of the Amulet of Kings, and the ending of the Dragonborn Septim Dynasty.
5. When the Snow Tower lies sundered, kingless, bleeding - This refers to the Civil War in the Events of the 4th era. Ulfric Stormcloak killed the High King, the land is sundered(split apart by war), and bleeding (brothers and sisters killing one another)
Skyrim is the Snow Tower, or the Snow Tower Exists in Skyrim think The Throat of The World. It also refers to the time-wound on the Throat of the World where the 1st tongues(Hakon, Gormlaith, and Feldir) sent Alduin Adrift in time.
6. The World-Eater wakes, and the Wheel turns upon the Last Dragonborn. This one is self explanatory, the Last Dragonborn appears right around the the time Alduin returns. "
So just going by Alduin's Wall, the Soulburst couldn't happen, BUT thats not the only reason why...the Primary Reason is "THE TOWERS"
All over Tamriel are special towers, the most Famous being the Adamantine Tower and the White Gold Tower....These towers have a special purpose, and that purpose is keeping a barrier Between Nirn and Oblivion.
The White Gold Tower in Cyrodiil became the most popular due to its central location, and it being the seat of the Empire (St. Alessia and Remen), The Amulet of Kings is a small part of the equation, as it keeps the White Gold Tower functioning, but its NOT the only tower protecting Tamriel.
During the times leading up to the Oblivion Crisis, the Red, Brass, Orichalc, and Green Sap towers, had been de-activiated. During the Oblivion Crisis, Dagon attacked Alinor/Summerset Isles and destroyed the Crystal-like-Law Tower as the final piece he needed make the barrier weak enough to allow him to come to Tamriel.
This also confirmed in Kirkbrides lore writings for the game(leading up to Oblivion, read the letters to Chancellor Ocato in the months leading up to the Oblivion Crisis)
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-mantia-intercept
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Towers
So Mehrunes Dagon, who is the 6th most powerful entity in TES Universe, only eclipsed by Talos, Akatosh, Trinimac, Jygalaag, and Shor needed 5 of the towers de-activated just so he could open Oblivion Gates, and needed 6 of them de-activated in order to come to Nirn, yet Molag Bal only needs 1 tower(White Gold) de-activated before he can use Daedric Anchors to try and pull Nirn though the barrier?...right.....The Soulburst simply couldn't happen, too many of the Towers are still functional.
2. The Cyrodiil in TESO is wholly inaccurate
Cyrodiil did NOT look the way it does in Oblivion and TESO until Talos Ascended and used the power of CHIM and the Voice to transform Cyrodiil from a junge to what it looks like today.
Cyrodiil, Dragon Empire, Starry Heart of Nirn, and Seat of Sundered Kings... Indeed, if the history of the Nords is the history of humans on Tamriel, then Cyrodiil is the throne from which they will decide their destiny. It is the largest region of the continent, and most is endless jungle. - Pocket Guide To The Empire First Edition
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-first-edition-cyrodiil
They tried to say its a "Transcription error" but thats a load of Hogwash, as if you listen to Talos's Speech he tells us how he transforms Cyrodiil from a Jungle:
From the Many Headed Talos
"And after the throne of Alinor did finally break at the feet of Men, and news of it came to the Dragon Emperor in Cyrodiil, he gathered his captains and spoke to them, saying:
"'You have suffered for me to win this throne, and I see how you hate jungle. Let me show you the power of Talos Stormcrown, born of the North, where my breath is long winter. I breathe now, in royalty, and reshape this land which is mine. I do this for you, Red Legions, for I love you.'"
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/many-headed-talos
Fire Up The Elder Scrolls Skyrim, go to Whiterun and listen to Heimskr, a Preist of Talos, as he preaches in front of the Shrine of Talos, and listen to him. The same line I quoted above is also quoted in game in Skyrim.
Cyrodiill WAS A JUNGLE DURING THE INTERREGNUM PERIOD OF TAMRIEL'S HISTORY.
It was not transformed into what it looks like in TESO (Oblivion) Until Talos sscended becoming the God of Man, and used the power of the CHIM and the Voice to transform Cyrodiil into the beautiful country it is.
[/quote]
The over-abundance of 3rd and 4th era books in this game
Just check your nearest bookshelf, the game is full of books that haven't been written yet, such as Ruminations of the Elder Scrolls by Septimus Signus(4th era), Last King of the Ayleids by Hermma Cinna (3rd era), many others which I won't list because it will make this thread too long, as its already too long as it is...Fact is most of the books you find in this game haven't even been written yet, and their authors haven't even been born yet....but who cares! right?
Cropsford
Oh Cropsford, oh beautiful Cropsford, I love you so! The only problem is YOU HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN FOUNDED YET!
The Town of Cropsford wasn't even founded until the 3rd era when the Champion of Cyrodiil drove away the Goblin tribes allowing the town's founders to settle the town and get it started....so why is the town even in the game? Are we all under the influence of some really good Skooma, and thats how we explain why a town exists that hasn't been founded yet, and the founders of the town haven't even been born yet?
It makes me wonder what they are going to do to the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild...at this time in lore, the Dark Brotherhood and the Morag Tong are at each others throats carrying out a waging war of assassination and murder in the shadows unknown to the people much like the Lycan vs Vampire feud of Underworld that went on for centuries without the humans finding out about it.
Queen Ayreen started the 3 Banners Wars and thrusted Tamriel into conflict due to her believing men have no right to rule, when the Empire, was the 1st fair rulership Tamriel has had since the Elves were overtrown. (As fair as fair could be considering the Empire accepted the Orcs, and was the only institution to grant the Orcs equal membership, citizenship status, and actually treated them fairly) Elven rule was nothing but enslaving the men, beastfolk, and Orcs.
This explains Talos contempt for the Aldmeri Dominion, as Talos was born in the High Rock Kingdom of Alcaire under the name Hjaliti-Early Beard.
Conclusion
I like this game. I enjoy playing it. However, I can no longer read any of the in-game lore books, nor really read anything thats laying around because it all pretty much breaks legitimate cannonized lore, which is a shame.
Zenimax had a whole time period where they were free to write their own lore, their own story, and instead chose to put 3rd and 4th era books in the game, and design the game and history in straight contradiction to what the lore dictates. It actually saddens me.
Regardless, I will continue to play for now and hope that Zenimax can correct some of these glaring problems in the future. I know this is a long post, but its how i feel about the game and lore...right now TESO just completely breaks established lore when there was no reason for them to do so, as they had a whole time period where they could have wrote their own and chose not to.
All of those issues but a Khajiit having some racial passives the other players can't even see is a concern?Edited by Knowledge on 12 April 2018 19:521 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »1. If you bothered to come back to your Psijic Order post, you'd have seen my response to you there. Namely, that the Psijic Order in Skyrim shows the ability to see the future potential in the Dragonborn, and thus the Vestige, with their power/potential is a perfect candidate for the Psijic Order. But I await your response on that thread.
2.you suggestion doesnt match the lore from the single player games and you haven't provided a convincing explanation for why the lore should be thrown out so I must disagree with your suggestion.
Edited to add: @Knowledge In case you've forgotten or lost track or something, here's your thread about the farfetchedness of the Psijic Order accepting the Vestige, in which I lay out a fairly detailed rebuttal to your position and have repeatedly invited you back to debate it.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/401988/doesnt-it-seem-a-little-far-fetched-that-were-all-going-to-be-psijic-order-members/p1
My Rebuttal is better in the context of that thread, but under the spoiler for size:Succinctly, and so that I am on topic in addition to responding to your comment to me, my rebuttal to the OP's argument is simple.
Thesis: The Psijic Order is too powerful to accept everyone and anyone AKA the player characters.
Point 1: My main character and probably the established characters of most experienced players, are pretty darned powerful. Unless the Psijic Order is kicking daedric butt on a daily basis (and they clearly aren't since they need our help), we're probably right on par with some of their members. Mannimarco and Vanus were Psijics. I rescued Vanus and kicked Mannimarco's but, so talk to me again about power levels?
Point 2: New characters have the potential to do great things. In Skyrim, the Psijic Order helps out the player character because they have the potential to save the world from the Eye of Magnus fiasco. So clearly the Psijic Order can recognize potential and help out heros...and now we're wrapping back to Point 1 again. Who wouldn't want a hero with the potential for that kind of power on their side?
So I disagree with the OP's thesis because the Psijic Order has ample reason to want a powerful or potentially powerful player character on their side, and that matches with their characterization from Skyrim.
muh lore
What part of your in-game experience is effected by a Khajit having 10% more magicka recovery? Can you see their stats floating above their head with the text "BREAKS LORE"?
Hey, nothing breaks the lore. There's even a specific type of Khajiit that probably does have magicka recovery, the Alfiq! Or the Dagi! Or the Dagi-raht! All of whom are spellcasters. (And about the size of a housecat for Alfiq and smaller and lighter than Bosmer for the Dagi and Dagi-raht)
Mind you, every player character Khajiit so far is a Suthay-raht...
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Khajiit#Sub-species_Notes
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mixed_Unit_Tactics
If you add more Khajiit sub-speciices to the playable character list, I'll have zero problems with it from a lore perspective. Until then, we should probably stick closer to the Suthay-raht racial descriptions from the other single-player games, thanks.
For some reason I think you believe The Elder Scrolls lore is air tight, has never conflicted, or contradicted its self. I also believe you think the writers have never had to make changes or additions just to somewhat cover up major issues within it.
If you read it in its entirety you'll know there are far greater issues, contradictions, and lore-breaking decisions that dwarf something as basic as a Khajiit that can have extra magicka regeneration.
Okay. Trying to shut down a lore discussion by saying "the lore is changeable" is an interesting position to take.
To begin with, I don't entirely disagree. The lore is obviously malleable. Cyrodiil isn't a jungle anymore.
However, the lore generally changes when contrary information is implemented in game. That's why I prefer to use the in game lore whenever possible, such as the Suthay-raht racial bonuses from Oblivion, Morrowind, and Skyrim, which incidently don't include much in the way of magical bonuses. Those games are better sources than the book describing Alfiq as spellcasters, which is called out by the author as a possible Bosmer exaggeration.
Until the devs change something, the actual game's gameplay is a pretty solid source. Books are less reliable, since unreliable and biased authors abound.
So my lore argument is as follows:
1. The devs certainly can change what they want with permission from Bethesda, such as the lack of Altmer glass buildings. However, if the devs choose to change the racial bonuses significantly from Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim, I woukd expect them to explain why the Suthay-raht of the 2nd era are significantly different from the Suthay-raht of the 3rd and 4th Era.
2. There's already a lore-friendly option for magically gifted Khajiit and I would love for the Dagi, Dagi-raht, and/or Alfiq to be playable.
Finally, and in the same vein as earlier comments about Redguards, J'zargo doesnt need racial bonuses to make an excellent destruction mage, once he gets a handle on those flame cloak scrolls
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