Nightblade, The Only Ranged Option

Jeddahwe · April 2014

Nightblade is the only 28m ranged option for those who do not want to have a dedicated healing option. The other two 28m options are Sorcerer and Templar and both have dedicated healing skills/talents.

Nightblade is also the only class with a 28m ranged CC (15sec) as far as I can tell and a way to reset via stealth.

Sorcerer seems to be the only class with pets so you can build a bow+pet medium armor build I just have not figured out how or if it would work in the meta.

KerinKor · April 2014

You lost me, what point are you trying to make here?

What significance does a "dedicated healing option" have? Sure, a Sorceror can use a Restoration Staff and get a healing spec, but equally they can take a Lightning Staff and become entirely DPS.

I don't see why you'd pick a Nightblade over a Sorcerer simply because the 'blade doesn't have an OPTION to heal.

I don't get what you're trying to say.

Xionar · April 2014

Nightblades actually do have quite a few healing options :S in fact, a nightblade with a resto staff, can make a very, very nice healer.

However, just because the skills exist, does not mean that you specifically have to use them, that is not what this game is about. The game tries to give you options regardless of class, to play how you want to play. You could play with 0 class skills at all if you wanted to.

Thybrinena · April 2014

There are NBs in my guild who can heal really well, but not sure what we're supposed to be discussing tbh.

Medwin · April 2014

Templars have dawns wrath which is mostly 28 meters, and Nightblades make great healers, just cause you are a templar does not mean people will force you to heal.

Lazarus_Long · April 2014

Jeddahwe wrote: »

...Sorcerer and Templar and both have dedicated healing skills/talents...

Sorcerers do not have a Class healing skill tree. The are good at healing with Restoration Staff skills because booth R and D Staff skill trees scale off of your magicka pool.

Any class can use any weapon, but only a Sorcerer can Summon like only a Nightblade can turn invisible.

Also, was there supposed to be a question in there?

Nosferatu123 · April 2014

Bow and Arrow are so cool!

Jeddahwe · April 2014

Then I'm back to square one, trying to get my head wrapped around this game...How can NB heal others? I look at esohead.com and try to figure out what is what...

So, let me get this right, you are telling me that I can pretty much take any class and play bow ranged? In the end it will all be just as effective?

Please note I am very new at this game did not play more then minutes during beta...

Avorniel · April 2014

Jeddahwe wrote: »

Then I'm back to square one, trying to get my head wrapped around this game...How can NB heal others? I look at esohead.com and try to figure out what is what...

So, let me get this right, you are telling me that I can pretty much take any class and play bow ranged? In the end it will all be just as effective?

Please note I am very new at this game did not play more then minutes during beta...

If you want to heal with a NB use a Restoration Staff and yes any class can use any weapon,this also apply's to armour.

So basically your not restricted in any way with weapons or armour for any class.

Xionar · April 2014

NB specifically can't really heal others, using their skills alone. Though they are pretty great at healing themselves/resource management in general. However, with a resto staff, they can still heal whoever.

Yes, you could pick ranged bow with any class, and likely find good synergies with them all that could make a very good bow build. There are so many build options when you support your class pick with all the outside skills. Class doesn't really mean a lot besides a few things, however if you like the type of skills in a certain class, I would pick that one.

If you pick skills with good synergies to what you're trying to do in this game, your class selection will not impede you in any way shape or form.

For me, I decided I wanted to do a PbAoE build, but I wanted to do it slightly differently. Currently running a templar with high dps buffs, and due to being a templar, I can also use a single target heal on myself when low, without the need of a resto staff.

The game is all about looking at your skill options, and finding synergies with the way you like to play. So instead of your first instinct being "what class should I pick" you should be thinking "what type of playstyle do I want to run, and which class supplements that playstyle in a way that I'm comfortable playing with."

gimmethecreepsb14_ESO · April 2014

Jeddahwe wrote: »

Then I'm back to square one, trying to get my head wrapped around this game...How can NB heal others? I look at esohead.com and try to figure out what is what...

So, let me get this right, you are telling me that I can pretty much take any class and play bow ranged? In the end it will all be just as effective?

Please note I am very new at this game did not play more then minutes during beta...

What you need to realize is that the "class" you select has less bearing on your player than in any other game you've ever played. Some people will make Nightblade's with Restoration staves and group life-leaching. Some will use them as assassins. Others will play them with destruction staffs like they're a shadow-priest of sorts. I made one in Beta with heavy armor and sword and shield, used the life-tap powers and some of the CC's to make a Shadow Knight tank. All the class gives you are spell options. Not a role in a group. You select the role you play.

Corithna · April 2014

Jeddahwe wrote: »

Then I'm back to square one, trying to get my head wrapped around this game...How can NB heal others? I look at esohead.com and try to figure out what is what...

So, let me get this right, you are telling me that I can pretty much take any class and play bow ranged? In the end it will all be just as effective?

Please note I am very new at this game did not play more then minutes during beta...

Yes every class can take on every role, every weapon, every weight of armor. Classes are only a starting point that you build upon from there. You in fact can make character that take absolutely no class abilities whatsoever and still be successful. This is a hugely open system, play what you want with whatever class you want.

Feimerdre · April 2014

gimmethecreepsb14_ESO wrote: »

Some people will make Nightblade's with Restoration staves and group life-leaching. Some will use them as assassins. Others will play them with destruction staffs like they're a shadow-priest of sorts. I made one in Beta with heavy armor and sword and shield, used the life-tap powers and some of the CC's to make a Shadow Knight tank. All the class gives you are spell options. Not a role in a group. You select the role you play.

Well. This is the happy world. Then again... there might be the real world. In the real world a NB has high damage capacities vs low health targets and loads of CC. In the real world it would be like driving a Maserati with fins if you play with heavy armor and SnB instead of Dualwield or maybe even 2H and wearing medium. Medium armor means +Crit, as well as both DW and 2H put out more damage than SnB.
The fact that you 'could' play any playstyle that 'fits' you doesnt mean there will be (for SURE) builds that are far more successful than you simply because they make more profit out of synergies that a class and armor and a weapon choice offers.
There has to come loads of theory crafting on classes/armor/weapon combinations as well as skill combinations just like in any MMOG. In the end this will prove some combinations 'better' than others, just like in any other MMOG.

fougerec99b16_ESO · April 2014

Feimerdre wrote: »

The fact that you 'could' play any playstyle that 'fits' you doesnt mean there will be (for SURE) builds that are far more successful than you simply because they make more profit out of synergies that a class and armor and a weapon choice offers.
There has to come loads of theory crafting on classes/armor/weapon combinations as well as skill combinations just like in any MMOG. In the end this will prove some combinations 'better' than others, just like in any other MMOG.

It's only "better" if the person playing it is having more fun than the other options. If someone wants to have the highest DPS and that's fun for them, then that build is the best. If someone else wants to swing a big freaking sword and have some limited healing and wearing armor that they think looks good...then that's the best. If someone else wants to use a bow and call down lightning while wearing their skivvies...then that's the best.

Best isn't defined the same for everyone.

Medwin · April 2014

Jeddahwe wrote: »

Then I'm back to square one, trying to get my head wrapped around this game...How can NB heal others? I look at esohead.com and try to figure out what is what...

So, let me get this right, you are telling me that I can pretty much take any class and play bow ranged? In the end it will all be just as effective?

Please note I am very new at this game did not play more then minutes during beta...

Nightblade has more healing spells than Sorcerer, and just cause you have healing spells you won't be forced to heal. The Siphoning tree has some heals like Funnel Health, Sap Essence both heal allies, Siphoning Attacks lets you keep you magicka high, and Soul Siphon is a good healing ult in a pinch. The Shadow ult Bolstering Darkness can provide a healing synergy and be pretty helpful with the reduced damage.

Honestly with the use of a healing staff anyone can heal, that makes more of a difference than having healing skills. Same goes for using a bow, if you want to be ranged go with whatever class you want. And just to end on my original note in my opinion Nightblades are better healers than Sorcerers.

Feimerdre · April 2014

fougerec99b16_ESO wrote: »

It's only "better" if the person playing it is having more fun than the other options.

[...]

Best isn't defined the same for everyone.

In this one you clearly give your definition of 'best'. It means 'fun'.
I know games where you will make a whole group die on a boss, if you play 'fun' instead of being vial for your group.
If the mid and high end content in ESO doesnt rely on well geared well together played groups, thats fine with me and I am on your side.
In fact this would be the only game where it is like that - and it would fast become very boring too all progression players who are out there.

It might also mean that you are giving PvP groups a hard time - looking from different angles onto a fact doesnt mean that its only 'the others' who have to have insight in your point of view. It also includes you to widen your perspective to the 'others'.

Jeddahwe · April 2014

So help me out I enjoy ranged DPS (Bow) and want to play PvP so need mobility and control...

Feimerdre · April 2014

Play a NB with bow then. Level with bow, get the first 3 talents of bow. For leveling you will want to have Siphoning and later the upgraded (range option) Asssassination attack that does 300% dam on low heath targets.
Infight invisibility can com handy too, esp. in PvP.
On 15 you can swap range bow and melee weapons in fight with a second quickbar. There is unfortunaltely no real "Ranger" class in this game.
Bow can be paired with quite some other class options. So far I have only tested NB in beta (only level 15) so I would say I am far away from knowing this is the best option you have.

paul1606b16_ESO · April 2014

The issue we are bound to have in this game is the inevitable clash of two playstyles. The Elder Scrolls player, and the generic MMO player. Traditional ES players will make their characters as they see fit, generic MMO players will squeeze every last ounce of viability from their build, and in the end, particularly in PVP, the generic MMO players will eventually come out on top.

Quite sad in some ways, as this game had the potential to do away with generic gamers.

Yasha · April 2014

Ironically NB is perhaps the weakest ranged option. Here is why:

Templar has a 1st tier skill that does good damage, applies a powerful dot and a snare at 28m range and it can be morphed to an aoe. You don't get a ranged snare in NB until tier 3 (and it is only single target).
Templar also has a ranged kd, other ranged damage abilities and a powerful ranged ultimate.

Sorcerer has a ranged aoe immobilize (morph to also snare) at tier 2, an instant ranged attack that can be morphed to regen mana on kill (tier 1), a tier 2 skill that increases movement speed when morphed, and a powerful buff later on that heals on crit and boosts your weapon damage.

DK has an aoe root at tier 2, and a ranged kd at rank 1. It doesn't have a ranged class damage ability, but it has powerful skills for keeping one or more enemies at range while you shoot them.

NB have to wait until the bow tier 4 skill arrow spray to get a good ranged aoe snare so it is much harder to stay at range until then. They do get strife and impale as ranged damage early on but being able to keep your foes at a distance is vital for playing ranged. I think NB perhaps pull ahead of sorc and DK as a ranged (bow user) toon at higher levels though.

Jeddahwe · April 2014

So like a ES player who plays a Orc mage who uses stealth and a pickaxe to slay enemies Vs a traditional MMO player who min/max dual wield NB?

Feimerdre · April 2014

paul1606b16_ESO wrote: »

The issue we are bound to have in this game is the inevitable clash of two playstyles. The Elder Scrolls player, and the generic MMO player. Traditional ES players will make their characters as they see fit, generic MMO players will squeeze every last ounce of viability from their build, and in the end, particularly in PVP, the generic MMO players will eventually come out on top.

Quite sad in some ways, as this game had the potential to do away with generic gamers.

Why would there be an "inevitable clash of two playstyles"? If you want to progress on highlevel content you will have the need to combine at least making sense options in a group. If you want just roleplay, you can make a crafter toon or whatever pleases you. You even get xp for just exploring the world. Eventually you will come across npcs that will kill you even if you are higher level because you focused on the wrong skills or presets - this will by all means only inflict you and noone else.
If you choose to run in a group and do content that requires archetypes present (aka tank, healer, dd) and you disturb the effectiveness of the group or even cause them to wipe then it inflicts others and you might run into problems of wich being flamed is only one possibility.
ESO has by no means any kind of potential to do away with generic gamers as it has to be balanced around archetypes and has to offer some kind of challenge for more proffessional players. No game pays off just attracting casuals and roleplayers. Sorry to say that. But thats reality.

Yankee · April 2014

nevermind.

nerevarine1138 · April 2014

Has anyone figured out the OP's point yet?

OP: you seem to be really confused about how classes influence your playstyle. Every class can be a strong healer, tank or damage dealer. Every single one. Nightblades have more class-specific abilities for healing than sorcerers (who have none, last I checked), and every class can focus on restoration staff skills.

No, the nightblade is not the only ranged class. Any class can be ranged. Any class can wear any armor. Any class can use any weapon. Any class can heal. There is no "perfect combination" of class and specialization.

snowmanflvb14_ESO · April 2014

Avorniel wrote: »

Jeddahwe wrote: »

Then I'm back to square one, trying to get my head wrapped around this game...How can NB heal others? I look at esohead.com and try to figure out what is what...

So, let me get this right, you are telling me that I can pretty much take any class and play bow ranged? In the end it will all be just as effective?

Please note I am very new at this game did not play more then minutes during beta...

If you want to heal with a NB use a Restoration Staff and yes any class can use any weapon,this also apply's to armour.

So basically your not restricted in any way with weapons or armour for any class.

also the syphon skill line has skills that can morph to heal allies

SadisticSavior · April 2014

Jeddahwe wrote: »

Then I'm back to square one, trying to get my head wrapped around this game...How can NB heal others? I look at esohead.com and try to figure out what is what...

So, let me get this right, you are telling me that I can pretty much take any class and play bow ranged? In the end it will all be just as effective?

Please note I am very new at this game did not play more then minutes during beta...

This game is a lot more free-form than other MMOs. The only skills unique to your class are your actual class skills, which are only a tiny fraction of the skills in the game.

So Anyone, of any class, can be a caster. They just can't use the sorcerer-specific spells like Storm Calling. Anyone, of Any class, can sneak and use a bow. They just cannot access the nightblade-specific skill trees.

So the only reason to pick a given class is if you want/need the skills specific to that class for your character. Otherwise you can pick any class and just use World/racial/whatever skills.

JJDrakken · April 2014

Nightblade has powers that can heal others.

Strife can be upgraded to Funnel Health to heal 2 allies for 25% you deal with that power(Plus yourself).

Soul Shred Ultimate with a Morph into Soul Siphon, that heals you & nearby allies, plus they can activate it for a High Dmg Life Stealing Attack.

Drain Power can be upgraded to Sap Essence so that it can heal nearby allies.

Consuming Darkness Ultimate can be upgraded to Bolstering Darkness so it can heal allies nearby.

SadisticSavior · April 2014

Jeddahwe wrote: »

So like a ES player who plays a Orc mage who uses stealth and a pickaxe to slay enemies Vs a traditional MMO player who min/max dual wield NB?

If thats what you want to play, then yeah. As always, specialists will be more effective in their chosen specialties and in teams, and generalists will be more adaptable and better soloers. How you get to your preferred build is your choice. The "MMO rules" have not really changed...you just have more options here than in other MMOs.

If you want to Min/max, you can still do that too. Be aware that the DEVs are still balancing the game a lot though, but respeccing is fairly easy compared to many other games.

silent88b14_ESO · April 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Has anyone figured out the OP's point yet?

I think so. He has formed a concept of how the NB works and built up some assumptions about it before actually trying it out. So to try and learn whether his or her conjecture is at all close to accurate he asked a question because something wasn't making sense.

I think he's been working with a skill calculator without actually trying the game first.

So what every reply has been is telling him that no, there are problems with his conceptual grasp of the class and how the game works.

Jeddahwe · April 2014

Orc-->NB--->Bow-->Poison Arrow-->Strife-->Assassin's Blade-->Shadow Cloak-->Snipe

Looking forward to Scatter Shot latter on.