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Psijic Order Skill called "Undo"
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Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sheezabeast wrote: »I wanna know what the morphs are gonna be.
"Flawless Undo" - Reverts you to level 1.2 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭Yamenstein wrote: »how do you guys think they'll make undo work in pvp or even multiplayer pve?
Well it's an ultimate, so not sure how often people will be using it, especially if the cost is high. In PvP if someone uses it at the wrong time they could be in a worse position than if they didn't use it.
In PvE it might be good, though the same issue exists when it comes to using it at a wrong time. But resource management isn't that bad, not bad enough you need to slot in an ultimate that will undo 4 seconds. How much magicka are you going to spam in 4 seconds ? Especially if you are following some sort of rotation.
Imagine doing a dungeon and then just mindlessly activating it and going back into a enemy AOE with less health and resources.
It's not like you can use the skill when are dead. At most it could possibly give you a second chance if you are at low health, but always a risk.
What exactly makes you all think this is the Ultimate? I very much doubt it is myself. Sounds like Dark Deal to me, and only as OP as Dark Deal is either.
Why would they reveal the biggest skill so early in the game? Took way longer than a week to learn what ANY or the Wardens skill much less the Ultimates. Unless you want to count that there was a Bear that existed.Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.0 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »Yamenstein wrote: »how do you guys think they'll make undo work in pvp or even multiplayer pve?
Well it's an ultimate, so not sure how often people will be using it, especially if the cost is high. In PvP if someone uses it at the wrong time they could be in a worse position than if they didn't use it.
In PvE it might be good, though the same issue exists when it comes to using it at a wrong time. But resource management isn't that bad, not bad enough you need to slot in an ultimate that will undo 4 seconds. How much magicka are you going to spam in 4 seconds ? Especially if you are following some sort of rotation.
Imagine doing a dungeon and then just mindlessly activating it and going back into a enemy AOE with less health and resources.
It's not like you can use the skill when are dead. At most it could possibly give you a second chance if you are at low health, but always a risk.
What exactly makes you all think this is the Ultimate? I very much doubt it is myself. Sounds like Dark Deal to me, and only as OP as Dark Deal is either.
Why would they reveal the biggest skill so early in the game? Took way longer than a week to learn what ANY or the Wardens skill much less the Ultimates. Unless you want to count that there was a Bear that existed.
If you read earlier in this thread the moderators confirmed it was.0 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »Yamenstein wrote: »how do you guys think they'll make undo work in pvp or even multiplayer pve?
Well it's an ultimate, so not sure how often people will be using it, especially if the cost is high. In PvP if someone uses it at the wrong time they could be in a worse position than if they didn't use it.
In PvE it might be good, though the same issue exists when it comes to using it at a wrong time. But resource management isn't that bad, not bad enough you need to slot in an ultimate that will undo 4 seconds. How much magicka are you going to spam in 4 seconds ? Especially if you are following some sort of rotation.
Imagine doing a dungeon and then just mindlessly activating it and going back into a enemy AOE with less health and resources.
It's not like you can use the skill when are dead. At most it could possibly give you a second chance if you are at low health, but always a risk.
What exactly makes you all think this is the Ultimate? I very much doubt it is myself. Sounds like Dark Deal to me, and only as OP as Dark Deal is either.
Why would they reveal the biggest skill so early in the game? Took way longer than a week to learn what ANY or the Wardens skill much less the Ultimates. Unless you want to count that there was a Bear that existed.
If you read earlier in this thread the moderators confirmed it was.
Well thank you for that. I missed that.Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.0 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭My first question is actually purely technical.
Suppose the Undo skill works exactly as the OP describes - your avatar moves to the coordinates it occupied 4 seconds ago and magicka/stamina are restored to that 4-seconds-ago-level.
This means that the server needs to keep track not only of your current position and magicka/stamina levels, but, at all times, the same numbers for "4 seconds ago" on a rolling basis. And moreover, it must do so for - at best, all players with the skill slotted, at worst all players (depending on whether the game can make that level of distinction).
People are complaining about server loads, lag, et cetera now, especially in PVP. What happens when the server starts keeping track of all the "4-second shadows" on top of its regular workload?
Oh, but of course I am completely confident that ZOS will have thoroughly tested the skill and completely resolved any and all attendant technical issues before rolling it out...
The second thing that immediately comes to my mind is that this is perfect for corner sniping. [A very, very common thing in World of Tanks.] Peek around a corner (or go from outside engagement range into engagement range), burst, "snap back" with the Undo skill while resetting resources to pre-burst levels. Granted, it probably won't be quite as effective in PVE since presumably Undo won't reset aggro (otherwise the stupidity quotient increases exponentially). In PVP, however...
...at the very least I can see more than a few angry forum threads on the subject. Whether justified or not (since people will whine regardless, that being the first rule of MMO design).
Eh. We shall see how they will implement the skill. The whole skill line, in fact.
If it is like any other skill I have seen like this the player will activate it. The game saves how they were just then. Then 4 seconds later you get the effect. On some games I’ve seen you actually have to trigger it twice. But here there is a specific time frame so it will always go off 4 seconds later.
Which of course would make the skill even more useless because you would have to know you were going to need it In 4 seconds. I suppose you could still pull off 4 seconds of free casting. And use it to survive a bomb if you knew it was coming... assuming you were alive 4 seconds later...
Edited by vyndral13preub18_ESO on 23 March 2018 04:160 -
Ackwalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You don't really go back in time, so you can redo all your attacks again. It's just a resource reset with a teleport. So you can't cast proxie det have it go off, hit undo and have it go off again. But you could use a gap closer, hit undo, and use the gap closer again. Or, you just got hit by a large attack, hit undo and get healed up. It will be interesting, but tricky to time just right to get game changing affects to happen.
You could have people teleport in and proximity det, while being attacked or standing in AOEs, then Undo to get their HP back.
It's essentially a massive disengage with a heal.
You could also use negate magic instead of undo. Undo is an ult, so it won't be spammable.
You don't need it to be spammable. There's many "broken" uses for this ability in PVP. Here's a rough example. Your large raid moves into a would-be unfavorable position for the enemy which they are then engaged in. They then use Undo and get themselves out of that unfavorable position or use their previous position to bait the enemy into an unfavorable position.
If used properly it can decide engagements.
A whole raid all using undo for a 1 time position change is no big deal. Right now, there are whole raids running aoe heals and destroy ult. That is more of a problem then undo.
I don't think you can fully appreciate the benefit of Undo for tactical positioning. You're underestimating the benefit.
To ensure that your whole host may withstand the brunt of the enemy's attack and remain unshaken—this is effected by maneuvers direct and indirect - Sun Tzu
In all fighting, the direct method may be used for joining battle, but indirect methods will be needed in order to secure victory. - Sun Tzu
Indirect tactics, efficiently applied, are inexhaustible as Heaven and Earth, unending as the flow of rivers and streams; like the sun and moon, they end but to begin anew; like the four seasons, they pass away to return once more. - Sun Tzu
In battle, there are not more than two methods of attack: the direct and the indirect; yet these two in combination give rise to an endless series of maneuvers - Sun Tzu
The quality of decision is like the well-timed swoop of a falcon which enables it to strike and destroy its victim. - Sun Tzu
Simulated disorder postulates perfect discipline, simulated fear postulates courage; simulated weakness postulates strength. - Sun Tzu
Thus one who is skillful at keeping the enemy on the move maintains deceitful appearances, according to which the enemy will act. - Sun Tzu
He sacrifices something, that the enemy may snatch at it. - Sun Tzu
Just stop. Quoting the book of war means nothing in PvP raid. The simplest tactic wins in PvP. Stack on crown, use AOE heal/damage. Anything more complicated and your groups is just fodder to the next stack on crown zerg.1 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'll wait for Redo, which lets me go back in time and redo everything until I get it right.
nah, pre-do which resets me four seconds later to where i am now but with the others still dead.Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭You don't really go back in time, so you can redo all your attacks again. It's just a resource reset with a teleport. So you can't cast proxie det have it go off, hit undo and have it go off again. But you could use a gap closer, hit undo, and use the gap closer again. Or, you just got hit by a large attack, hit undo and get healed up. It will be interesting, but tricky to time just right to get game changing affects to happen.
You could have people teleport in and proximity det, while being attacked or standing in AOEs, then Undo to get their HP back.
It's essentially a massive disengage with a heal.
You could also use negate magic instead of undo. Undo is an ult, so it won't be spammable.
You don't need it to be spammable. There's many "broken" uses for this ability in PVP. Here's a rough example. Your large raid moves into a would-be unfavorable position for the enemy which they are then engaged in. They then use Undo and get themselves out of that unfavorable position or use their previous position to bait the enemy into an unfavorable position.
If used properly it can decide engagements.
A whole raid all using undo for a 1 time position change is no big deal. Right now, there are whole raids running aoe heals and destroy ult. That is more of a problem then undo.
I don't think you can fully appreciate the benefit of Undo for tactical positioning. You're underestimating the benefit.
To ensure that your whole host may withstand the brunt of the enemy's attack and remain unshaken—this is effected by maneuvers direct and indirect - Sun Tzu
In all fighting, the direct method may be used for joining battle, but indirect methods will be needed in order to secure victory. - Sun Tzu
Indirect tactics, efficiently applied, are inexhaustible as Heaven and Earth, unending as the flow of rivers and streams; like the sun and moon, they end but to begin anew; like the four seasons, they pass away to return once more. - Sun Tzu
In battle, there are not more than two methods of attack: the direct and the indirect; yet these two in combination give rise to an endless series of maneuvers - Sun Tzu
The quality of decision is like the well-timed swoop of a falcon which enables it to strike and destroy its victim. - Sun Tzu
Simulated disorder postulates perfect discipline, simulated fear postulates courage; simulated weakness postulates strength. - Sun Tzu
Thus one who is skillful at keeping the enemy on the move maintains deceitful appearances, according to which the enemy will act. - Sun Tzu
He sacrifices something, that the enemy may snatch at it. - Sun Tzu
Just stop. Quoting the book of war means nothing in PvP raid. The simplest tactic wins in PvP. Stack on crown, use AOE heal/damage. Anything more complicated and your groups is just fodder to the next stack on crown zerg.
I really think you should reevaluate Sun Tzu's Art of War. It applies to most things in life.0 -
Ackwalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You don't really go back in time, so you can redo all your attacks again. It's just a resource reset with a teleport. So you can't cast proxie det have it go off, hit undo and have it go off again. But you could use a gap closer, hit undo, and use the gap closer again. Or, you just got hit by a large attack, hit undo and get healed up. It will be interesting, but tricky to time just right to get game changing affects to happen.
You could have people teleport in and proximity det, while being attacked or standing in AOEs, then Undo to get their HP back.
It's essentially a massive disengage with a heal.
You could also use negate magic instead of undo. Undo is an ult, so it won't be spammable.
You don't need it to be spammable. There's many "broken" uses for this ability in PVP. Here's a rough example. Your large raid moves into a would-be unfavorable position for the enemy which they are then engaged in. They then use Undo and get themselves out of that unfavorable position or use their previous position to bait the enemy into an unfavorable position.
If used properly it can decide engagements.
A whole raid all using undo for a 1 time position change is no big deal. Right now, there are whole raids running aoe heals and destroy ult. That is more of a problem then undo.
I don't think you can fully appreciate the benefit of Undo for tactical positioning. You're underestimating the benefit.
To ensure that your whole host may withstand the brunt of the enemy's attack and remain unshaken—this is effected by maneuvers direct and indirect - Sun Tzu
In all fighting, the direct method may be used for joining battle, but indirect methods will be needed in order to secure victory. - Sun Tzu
Indirect tactics, efficiently applied, are inexhaustible as Heaven and Earth, unending as the flow of rivers and streams; like the sun and moon, they end but to begin anew; like the four seasons, they pass away to return once more. - Sun Tzu
In battle, there are not more than two methods of attack: the direct and the indirect; yet these two in combination give rise to an endless series of maneuvers - Sun Tzu
The quality of decision is like the well-timed swoop of a falcon which enables it to strike and destroy its victim. - Sun Tzu
Simulated disorder postulates perfect discipline, simulated fear postulates courage; simulated weakness postulates strength. - Sun Tzu
Thus one who is skillful at keeping the enemy on the move maintains deceitful appearances, according to which the enemy will act. - Sun Tzu
He sacrifices something, that the enemy may snatch at it. - Sun Tzu
Just stop. Quoting the book of war means nothing in PvP raid. The simplest tactic wins in PvP. Stack on crown, use AOE heal/damage. Anything more complicated and your groups is just fodder to the next stack on crown zerg.
I really think you should reevaluate Sun Tzu's Art of War. It applies to most things in life.
I prefer K I S S .
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Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭You don't really go back in time, so you can redo all your attacks again. It's just a resource reset with a teleport. So you can't cast proxie det have it go off, hit undo and have it go off again. But you could use a gap closer, hit undo, and use the gap closer again. Or, you just got hit by a large attack, hit undo and get healed up. It will be interesting, but tricky to time just right to get game changing affects to happen.
You could have people teleport in and proximity det, while being attacked or standing in AOEs, then Undo to get their HP back.
It's essentially a massive disengage with a heal.
You could also use negate magic instead of undo. Undo is an ult, so it won't be spammable.
You don't need it to be spammable. There's many "broken" uses for this ability in PVP. Here's a rough example. Your large raid moves into a would-be unfavorable position for the enemy which they are then engaged in. They then use Undo and get themselves out of that unfavorable position or use their previous position to bait the enemy into an unfavorable position.
If used properly it can decide engagements.
A whole raid all using undo for a 1 time position change is no big deal. Right now, there are whole raids running aoe heals and destroy ult. That is more of a problem then undo.
I don't think you can fully appreciate the benefit of Undo for tactical positioning. You're underestimating the benefit.
To ensure that your whole host may withstand the brunt of the enemy's attack and remain unshaken—this is effected by maneuvers direct and indirect - Sun Tzu
In all fighting, the direct method may be used for joining battle, but indirect methods will be needed in order to secure victory. - Sun Tzu
Indirect tactics, efficiently applied, are inexhaustible as Heaven and Earth, unending as the flow of rivers and streams; like the sun and moon, they end but to begin anew; like the four seasons, they pass away to return once more. - Sun Tzu
In battle, there are not more than two methods of attack: the direct and the indirect; yet these two in combination give rise to an endless series of maneuvers - Sun Tzu
The quality of decision is like the well-timed swoop of a falcon which enables it to strike and destroy its victim. - Sun Tzu
Simulated disorder postulates perfect discipline, simulated fear postulates courage; simulated weakness postulates strength. - Sun Tzu
Thus one who is skillful at keeping the enemy on the move maintains deceitful appearances, according to which the enemy will act. - Sun Tzu
He sacrifices something, that the enemy may snatch at it. - Sun Tzu
Just stop. Quoting the book of war means nothing in PvP raid. The simplest tactic wins in PvP. Stack on crown, use AOE heal/damage. Anything more complicated and your groups is just fodder to the next stack on crown zerg.
I really think you should reevaluate Sun Tzu's Art of War. It applies to most things in life.
I prefer K I S S .
Skilled Cyrodil commanders do more than what you've stated. They lure the enemy into traps while having auxiliary forces waiting behind a rock. They attack where unexpected. Seem inactive when actually active. They win by following the Art of War whether cognitively or not it is the recipe for victory.
When able to attack we must seem unable.
When using our forces we must seem inactive.
We must feign disorder and chaos.
Pretend inferiority and encourage the enemies arrogance.
if of choleric temperament seek to irritate him.
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KyraCROgnon✭✭✭Pfff i don't care about combat uses, what i'd want is to be able to rewind time to just before that guard caught me with a paw in someone's pocket , or before i fell off that cliff while trying to reach a point on the map ...0
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Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Undo will be great on NBs in pvp if it also rewinds the state of skills.
Proc Merciless bow, wait 3 seconds, fire bow and cast Undo and fire bow again.
If it only regenerates resources and moves you back to where you were 4 seconds ago I dont see it being too strong.
PC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
Septimus Rulanir - Orsimer Templar
Septimus Desmoru - Khajiit Necromancer
Septimus Iroh - Dunmer Dragon Knight
Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »Undo will be great on NBs in pvp if it also rewinds the state of skills.
Proc Merciless bow, wait 3 seconds, fire bow and cast Undo and fire bow again.
If it only regenerates resources and moves you back to where you were 4 seconds ago I dont see it being too strong.
Gina said it doesn't affect debuffs. We don't know yet if it affects buffs. I think Undo's usefulness (in comparison to other Ultimates that cost 150 or more) gets overestimated a lot here.Edited by Seraphayel on 23 March 2018 07:11PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -3 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »Septimus_Magna wrote: »Undo will be great on NBs in pvp if it also rewinds the state of skills.
Proc Merciless bow, wait 3 seconds, fire bow and cast Undo and fire bow again.
If it only regenerates resources and moves you back to where you were 4 seconds ago I dont see it being too strong.
Gina said it doesn't affect debuffs. We don't know yet if it affects buffs yet. I think Undo's usefulness (in comparison to other Ultimates that cost 150 or more) gets overestimated a lot here.
I'd agree if we couldn't slot two ultimates.0