Templars need reform because the game has changed

Drdeath20 · March 2018

Ritual use to purge incomming projectiles. Yet cloak pretty much does the same thing plus puts them, is equally as defensively useful but also has a morph that can put them right back on the offensive

Drdeath20 · March 2018

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Templars are superior to other classes at being a "battery" because Shards restore more resources than Orbs.
Templars (along with sorcerers) have the most convenient burst heal for healing emergencies.
Those two advantages make templar the best class for group healing.
Reflective Light is somewhat better than Force Pulse as a spammable.
Power of the Light also fits nicely into a healing rotation.
So templar is the top choice for group healing.

Templars also compete with sorcerers for being the easiest class for newbies to level. (I think they're even ahead of sorcerers.)

And those are all the contexts I can think of in which I would recommend playing a templar.

But templars heal doesnt always gurantee it will heal you or the guy you are trying to save. Its a most likely heal for dungeons but in pvp my heals end up healing other people more than they do the person i am trying to save.

TBH i prefer combat prayer to honor the dead. It gives buffs and gurantees me a mediocre instant heal.

Did you mean sweeps as a spammable and not reflective light? If so yeah its argualbly better for some pve scenarios but definitely not for pvp.

Orbs is easier to get off bcz its only 1 tap of a button and is much easier to synergies bcz you can track it and it doesnt go away if they cast another.

Every class has unique things that fit in their healing rotation.

Runefang · March 2018

From a PvE point of view they really only need to make minor changes for it to be competitive with a Magblade.

I'd love Rune to provide Minor or Major Expedition for a few seconds and be larger in size. Then we'd have the mobility to get in and out of it as required. At least this works for PvE.

eso_nya · March 2018

It looks like splatdmg part of sweeps only heals for 3,5% of its dmg now. Hard to judge from green ingame healing numbers. Could also be that the splat part doesnt heal at all anymore.

With the recent dmg nerf to sweeps, lightning staff heavys do more dmg to trashpacks now, also heal u when u r a sorc/nb/warden (dk doesnt get heals but +40% dmg and works nicely together with inhale), restore magicka and dont force u into melee.

Drdeath20 · March 2018

Runefang wrote: »

From a PvE point of view they really only need to make minor changes for it to be competitive with a Magblade.

I'd love Rune to provide Minor or Major Expedition for a few seconds and be larger in size. Then we'd have the mobility to get in and out of it as required. At least this works for PvE.

No theres alot wrong with templars in PvE and it goes deeper than just a damage dealer role. Like he previously stated far too many undesirable skills/ultimates/passives and no real direction.

Look at the restoration tree, the 1st 2 skills unlocked are a heal (rushed ceremony) followed by another heal (healing ritual). Both doing relitively the same thing and neither 1 of them beneficial to stamina characters. As a stamplar do you slot BoL to level up your restoration tree till you can finally get something midly usefull like cleansing ritual?

TheDoomsdayMonster · March 2018

You know, this thread made me realize something: only 4 of my 12 abilities are Templar specific...

I only slot Breath of Life and Ritual of Retribution on my Healing Bar and Toppling Charge/Puncturing Sweeps on my DPS bar at current...

Sometimes this will increase to 5 of 12 in situations where I deem Purifying Light superior to Strictured Entropy...

I think this speaks volumes on the state of affairs of Templar abilities when most of my abilities are not class specific...

Lexxypwns · March 2018

@Joy_Division I love you

Ron_Burgundy_79 · March 2018

@Joy_Division Thank you. Great work as always.

Checkmath · March 2018

now lets all hope ZOS reads that thread and takes up some ideas

usmcjdking · March 2018

It's important to note that Mending passive in the Restoring Light tree only affects Restoring Light heals.

tplink3r1 · March 2018

As Stamplar, the only major problems i have are the ridiculously low duration of the Rune Focus and the terrible ultimates when it comes to PvP.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · March 2018

I could have made a 30 minute video to explain all this stuff

make that video, i would love to watch it. love long explanations.

your write up is on point and if any of the improvements you talk about happened, i would be immensely happy.

Princess_Ciri · March 2018

This is such a good post. Looking back at old videos of Magplars makes me so sad. Our class is a bad place atm, Templars really do need a buff. We might still be the most popular class for healing but that shouldn't mean Templar DDs get nerfed to pieces. Everything the class did that was awesome feels like it got taken away

maxjapank · March 2018

My background. I play a healer/dps hybrid in PVP with a guild (TKG) which runs anywhere from 8-16 players. When I say hybrid, it just means that my back bar is strictly heals oriented which is my main role, and my front bar is pure offensive.

Based on some of the skills I use:

Channeled Focus: I see no reason why this skill cannot last longer than 8 secs after leaving the rune. It really wouldn't make the skill op in anyway. And it would allow the Templar to have a bit more mobility by not having the cast it or stay near it.

Puncturing Sweep: It sure could hit harder, especially against single target. I see no reason why this couldn't be increased to 170% again.

Toppling Charge: I use it for the stun and gap closer. The interrupt never happens as hardly anyone uses a channeled skill. While I do get off one or two punc sweeps and/or a Radiant finisher, the stun from Toppling is usually what allows my teammates to get the kill. Stun ememy > 1-2 teammates rush in and finish before the enemy can break free.

Total Dark: I love the skill. I always use it. The damage return is nice. The heals are very welcome. It is often my highest healing source behind healing springs. It's especially useful when running into resources and keeps. Put it on a couple of npcs that can't break free, and you have a free source of heals. Also very useful in medium sized/large group battles. In smaller fights, timing is more important. It is widely underused in my opinion. But I would welcome anything to make it more powerful. Cheers.

Radiant Oppression: Whatever they did, it hits harder now that it did in Clockwork. I'm doing more dmg and getting more kills with it. Some players have said that they never fixed some "bugs" with it. If so, then please fix.

Purifying light: Great skill.

Blazing Spear: I have only recently begun using this again. My teammates appreciate the resource return, and it's really the only skill that does the most dmg (because of burning light procs) in a large scale battle, especially as my guild it highly mobile. But it's dependent on enemy clumps. Only useful for the initial hit and spamming it. The dots are worthless as the enemy moves. But I'm really missing the stun/disorient. And...I cannot recall the last time I've seen a Templar using Blazing spear in pvp. So some might be surprised that I am.

Ultimates:

Remembrance: There is no better Healing Ulti to defend against Destro bombs. The range of 20m makes this easy to use and easy to hit everyone.

Solar Disturbance: I use this extensively. It won't kill anything on its own. But the snare and stun synergy makes this a very powerful Ulti to keep the enemy clumped for other Ulti bombs to hit. The 30% reduced dmg is also very welcome for the duration. It is a group oriented Ulti and one that I think all groups should use more.

Radial Sweep: Don't use it ever. And I wish that this was changed to make it more powerful for both Stamina and Magicka Classes.

Unused Skills:

Dark Flare / Solar barrage / Radiant Aura / Healing Ritual / Sun Shield

Passives:

Lots of good ideas from others here. But Balance Warrior is a no brainer. Make it apply to spell damage, too.

Solinur · March 2018

Very nice writeup, I agree with most of what you wrote but disagree on one thing though:

I thinks Blazing Spear is a good DPS skill, when you factor in Burning Light. (not sure how it compares to other classes, but for me it's somewhere close to Blockade)

The wrong thing about this is, we need 4 skill points to get one decent skill ...

Synozeer · March 2018

Amen. Templars need love. Perhaps in a couple of years we'll see some changes.

Reverb · March 2018

I had to wait until after work to really sit through this and digest it all. I haven't read the responses yet, but find that I refute no part of the opening post. It captures the current state very well, and offers reasonable suggested fixes.

So many statements are worth noting and responding to, but nothing struck me as much as this nugget:

Templars are a pain to kill in PvP not because they are templars. But because they are wearing defensive oriented gear, using 1H + shield, are vampires, invest in block, etc., in order to deal with all the nerfs people forced on ZoS so as not to become AP piñatas. Which is pretty sad state of affairs; our class survives not because they are templars, rather via things not on the templars skillset.

Nothing sums up my Templar so concisely as this. I'm sad to see it writ in black and white, it hollows out my soul a bit.

Solariken · March 2018

Thanks for the tag =]

Very insightful, per usual. I could spew a long list of [what I feel] are awesome ideas to breathe new life into the class but I hate the feeling of wasted effort. I would support you Joy if you decide to run for class president, and hope we could form some sort of Templar council in a Discord chat or something to really deliberate and expose the most egregious Templar flaws that need attention.

usmcjdking wrote: »

It's important to note that Mending passive in the Restoring Light tree only affects Restoring Light heals.

Yeah that is totally derpy design. We have several of these overly narrow, lackluster passives that need a rework. Classes should feel holistically designed and deeply interconnected with their own skills and passives and with ESO combat mechanics in general. All classes are lacking in this (Warden the least lacking, IMO Templar the most lacking).

ak_pvp · March 2018

Solariken wrote: »

Thanks for the tag =]

Very insightful, per usual. I could spew a long list of [what I feel] are awesome ideas to breathe new life into the class but I hate the feeling of wasted effort. I would support you Joy if you decide to run for class president, and hope we could form some sort of Templar council in a Discord chat or something to really deliberate and expose the most egregious Templar flaws that need attention.

usmcjdking wrote: »

It's important to note that Mending passive in the Restoring Light tree only affects Restoring Light heals.

Yeah that is totally derpy design. We have several of these overly narrow, lackluster passives that need a rework. Classes should feel holistically designed and deeply interconnected with their own skills and passives and with ESO combat mechanics in general. All classes are lacking in this (Warden the least lacking, IMO Templar the most lacking).

So your saying zos needs to give the class a breath of life? Because for now they aren't even honoring the dead.

Runefang · March 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Thanks for the tag =]

Very insightful, per usual. I could spew a long list of [what I feel] are awesome ideas to breathe new life into the class but I hate the feeling of wasted effort. I would support you Joy if you decide to run for class president, and hope we could form some sort of Templar council in a Discord chat or something to really deliberate and expose the most egregious Templar flaws that need attention.

usmcjdking wrote: »

It's important to note that Mending passive in the Restoring Light tree only affects Restoring Light heals.

Yeah that is totally derpy design. We have several of these overly narrow, lackluster passives that need a rework. Classes should feel holistically designed and deeply interconnected with their own skills and passives and with ESO combat mechanics in general. All classes are lacking in this (Warden the least lacking, IMO Templar the most lacking).

So your saying zos needs to give the class a breath of life? Because for now they aren't even honoring the dead.

You could even say balance patches are just a ritual of retribution currently. Full of biting jabs resulting in a total dark. Lets restore the power of the light and bring back the Templar's radiant glory.

Waffennacht · March 2018

Ugh to above two posts, just ugh.

Again I did have something to say, but the ugh has killed it.

Ugh

ak_pvp · March 2018

Runefang wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Thanks for the tag =]

Very insightful, per usual. I could spew a long list of [what I feel] are awesome ideas to breathe new life into the class but I hate the feeling of wasted effort. I would support you Joy if you decide to run for class president, and hope we could form some sort of Templar council in a Discord chat or something to really deliberate and expose the most egregious Templar flaws that need attention.

usmcjdking wrote: »

It's important to note that Mending passive in the Restoring Light tree only affects Restoring Light heals.

Yeah that is totally derpy design. We have several of these overly narrow, lackluster passives that need a rework. Classes should feel holistically designed and deeply interconnected with their own skills and passives and with ESO combat mechanics in general. All classes are lacking in this (Warden the least lacking, IMO Templar the most lacking).

So your saying zos needs to give the class a breath of life? Because for now they aren't even honoring the dead.

You could even say balance patches are just a ritual of retribution currently. Full of biting jabs resulting in a total dark. Lets restore the power of the light and bring back the Templar's radiant glory.

With the new communications it seems like they are restoring focus at least. I hope they give an empowering sweep to the class.

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ugh to above two posts, just ugh.

Again I did have something to say, but the ugh has killed it.

Ugh

Runefang · March 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ugh to above two posts, just ugh.

Again I did have something to say, but the ugh has killed it.

Ugh

Perhaps its time for some repentance?

ofSunhold · March 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ugh to above two posts, just ugh.

Again I did have something to say, but the ugh has killed it.

Ugh

There is no pain like pun pain.

Minno · March 2018

Solariken wrote: »

Thanks for the tag =]

Very insightful, per usual. I could spew a long list of [what I feel] are awesome ideas to breathe new life into the class but I hate the feeling of wasted effort. I would support you Joy if you decide to run for class president, and hope we could form some sort of Templar council in a Discord chat or something to really deliberate and expose the most egregious Templar flaws that need attention.

usmcjdking wrote: »

It's important to note that Mending passive in the Restoring Light tree only affects Restoring Light heals.

Yeah that is totally derpy design. We have several of these overly narrow, lackluster passives that need a rework. Classes should feel holistically designed and deeply interconnected with their own skills and passives and with ESO combat mechanics in general. All classes are lacking in this (Warden the least lacking, IMO Templar the most lacking).

the old healing passives were a 30% boost to all heals, regardless of max stat. You can thank the PVE templars for asking for moble buffs and the old zos team for gutting the passives to what we see today lol.

dodgehopper_ESO · March 2018

By the way I want to just add a Thanks to @Joy_Division for starting up this thread's conversation.

exeeter702 · March 2018

I remember when i was unemployed.

I kid i kid

ak_pvp · March 2018

The total lack of coherence of the class makes me laugh, I mean for all the *** I give DK or sorc, they at least have a decently fitting offense/defense. Whip procs of the CCs, dots and pressure tick, the CCs have different immunities. Talons into engulfing or deep breath make sense, and the abilities can be block casted.

Then look to templar, you have backlash, which just sits on a target and doesn't have much synergy, jabs which doesn't mix well with javelin, javelin and eclipse not working together, nothing really allowing jabs to hit fully bar the gapcloser, (which you have to step back for anyway, rather counter intuitive) and the benefits for building house are little.

Aurielle · March 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ugh to above two posts, just ugh.

Again I did have something to say, but the ugh has killed it.

Ugh

You don't like puns, @Waffennacht? Get ready for some serious Backlash. I'll say a Hasty Prayer for you.

Great write-up, OP. Here's an awesome for you.

Elsterchen · March 2018

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

You know, this thread made me realize something: only 4 of my 12 abilities are Templar specific...

I only slot Breath of Life and Ritual of Retribution on my Healing Bar and Toppling Charge/Puncturing Sweeps on my DPS bar at current...

Sometimes this will increase to 5 of 12 in situations where I deem Purifying Light superior to Strictured Entropy...

I think this speaks volumes on the state of affairs of Templar abilities when most of my abilities are not class specific...

Lol, I use 2 ... if i am jolly i slot a 3rd one in PVP.