Idea For ‘Guild’ Housing

Woefulmonkey · January 2018

First let me say I get that there are guilds out there who pissed that they have to use ‘Private’ homes for ‘Guild’ houses and I agree that Guilds as an Organization should be able to own Houses and used them for Guild purposes.

However, I think transferring ownership from a ‘Player’ to a ‘Guild’ is not a good solution.

So… What is an alternative solution?

Guild Housing should be ‘Special’ and something ‘More’ than a ‘Player’ home.

1. ) There should be homes designated as ‘Guild Houses’ that ‘Only’ Guilds can buy as a ‘Guild’ not as a ‘Player’.
2. ) These ‘Guild Houses’ should be Large and designed to have areas for specific things ‘Guild’ needs.
a. An Official Arena Area with observations stands.
b. An Inn or Meeting Hall Area that can hold 50+ players (Ideally at least 50 players could go the Guild House at the same time).
c. A training area for DPS testing
3. ) ‘Guild Houses’ should have ‘Special’ Guild Services that can only be Purchased by Guilds
a. A Raffle ticket vendor that can manage selling tickets and awarding designated prizes on a schedule.
b. A Guild Task vendor that can manage awarding ‘Prizes’ to players for turning in items or completing events, essentially allowing guilds to have their own Quests.
c. A Guild Banker, who can allow users to access the Guild Bank and Guild Store from their Guild House.
d. A Guild Item Writ Vendor where guild members can request Items to be made and put up a ‘payment’ then other crafter members can receive that payment if they deliver the goods. The original requestor would then receive the items in mail.
4. ) Guild Houses should allow for more ‘Players’ to access them at once. If a guild can have 500 members then a guild house needs to be able to have more than 12 people visit it at once. Even if the ‘House’ must be instanced so no more than 12 people can be in 1 instance, Players should never receive an ‘Instance Is Full’ message when trying to go to their ‘Guild House’.

This is a more costly development solution to be sure, but it would actually differentiate ‘Guild Houses’ in a meaningful way and ensure there is no question of ‘Ownership’ between ‘Players’ and a ‘Guilds’ since only a Guild could own a ‘Guild House’.

Calderon06 · January 2018

Thats what i asked since a long time!

A Guild's House or manor

No need to have one Million différent but 1 by zone is enought.
A médium and a large for each race playable and 1 or 2 "special" for the beginning.

Buyable for gold since 20 members with some upgrades in the time like:
- A Banker at 20 Members
- Training Area at 20
- Crafting Area at 30
- Guild Merchant at 50

The possibility to restrict access to some room for members or officier

The possibility to put an "Anarchy Zone" where you could fight with other members when you get in. (In personnal houses it could be fun too)

Ajaxandriel · January 2018

I don't understand the point of separating guild estates from private estates. I don't want to have to buy again an expensive house for having the right to use your new features.

Actual 'private estates' should be improved to become sustainable guild halls instead.

There is no co-ownership in guilds already, so why would there be in guild houses? Your can wish to get a feature for co-ownership of guilds, then co-ownership of houses, but it's a different matter.

You can wish to get bigger, arena-designed, multi-rights-levels houses like you just described, but it's also another matter (the future estates on PTS look like this already)

Like I just wrote on the same-subject thread besides:

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

Insightful thread, but really I think the only relevant question is to improve the access system in Homestead

All these matters about ownership and so on, that's interesting but unapplicable. I don't want to see lawyers' mess into ESO

Since many players have bought homes and they made it some kind of 'guild halls' already ... then the only concern is the rights that one can share with one's guild.

- Remove the "primary residence" system. One should be able to decide how much houses and how much guilds he/she grants access to. Then we could state individually the access rights for each house.
- In fact it's already doable thanks to the addon "Port To Friend's House". But it should be in the base game. It's preventing people from buying more houses actually...

- Add new sharing features, and new confidence levels, in the housing tab.
- Sharing features like:
"Right to swich on/off the lights"

"Right to add furniture"

"Right to remove furniture"

- Confidence levels like:
"Guild house Supplier"
"Guild house Decorator"
"Guild House Visitor"

+ Not directly the same impact, but still... We should be able to read our custom name of the house in the UI (on doors mouseover at the very least - in the loadscreen and in our home-friendlist too if possible) ... To visit dozens of versions of the same "Mathiisen Manor" and the same "Tel Galen" is immersion-breaking ^^'

(I was suggesting something like this about a year ago https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3863617#Comment_3863617 )

Also, we could reinforce the "guild allegiance feeling" with guild-mimicking items, like:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/389622/customized-banners-housing-furniture-idea

Woefulmonkey · January 2018

@Ajaxandriel

The reason you really want to have a distinct 'Guild House' type, is that 'Guild' need things that 'Players' do not.

1. ) A player house can have a 12 occupant limit.. but that does not makes sense for a Guild who has 500 members.
2. ) Most good guilds try to provide specialized activates and events to foster community, they should get specialized services to support those efforts... but Players dose not need to organize a raffle from their individual house.
3. ) I get that a 'Player' may 'Want' an Arena area in their home.. but a 'Guild' actually has a 'Need' for them if they want to organize PvP combat training.
4. ) That also means Guilds 'Need' the ability to set a 'House' to PvP or at least their Arena to PvP but a Player does not 'Need' that.
5. ) Ownership of a 'Guild House' should not be 'Ambiguous'. It needs to be 'Owned' by the guild not some player who can take it away if they leave the guild. Similarly if a 'Player' pays real money for a house and uses it for a 'Guild House' the guild should not be able to 'Steal' their house by just kicking them out of the Guild.

NOTE: Their IS 'Community' ownership of items today in the form of a 'Guild Bank'. Everything in it is community owned and access to it is decided by 'Guild' officers. Once a 'Player' remove an item from it, it becomes owned by the 'Player' but until then it is 'Community' owned by the guild.

WaterBearer · January 2018

So, I'm nowhere close to being a game engineer so some of what I'm saying may just be out of ignorance, but I'm inclined to agree with @Ajaxandriel on this one. Asking for an additive as potentially big and separate as "Guild Housing" may be too much to hope for imo. Especially considering how long it took to get Homestead. I think our efforts would be best served by advocating a revamp of the existing housing system.

Agreed: the primary residence feature (re: access privileges) should be done away with. Those that love homestead and invest in a house or multiple houses should have the option to share their abode(s) with other players and guildmates. Also, for those that have the expendable income and want to use it on housing, it gives a chance for other players in their guilds/parties/whatever to be able to experience homestead if they want and weren't able to previously bc of funds (although I can actually see this being the reason that ZOS doesn't want to/won't change this feature, bc they want people to buy more). Because really, what's the point of having multiple dwellings if you're the only one who ever gets to see them? I'm aware that you technically can have other people visit homes that are not primaries when you're physically in them, but that's unnecessarily limiting to me.

We already have access to permission features (decorator privileges, etc.), they should just be expanded upon and made more specific. Which of your guilds has access to what, and within them which members have access to what, etc.

I really wish the player limit would be raised as well, though I don't know how difficult or not it would be to do this. It's perfect for small guilds, but for many large guilds it would be pointless to host things in guild housing if only 5% can show up at once.

I love your ideas for guild additives in housing, very creative and the task vendor would be a really cool idea to test and see if it's sustainable (but how are the quests generated? It may be more work than ZOS is willing to put in especially if they're focused on trying to get new content out consistently). However, the one I think is a no-brainer and shouldn't be hard to make happen (hopefully) is the guild trader. Because that's already a feature in-game.

The real problem I see with a communal owned house is that there's no sustainability if the guild is disbanded. Does everyone in the guild just lose access to it? Does it go to one person? What about people that may have donated to buy a guild hall? Are they s*** out of luck if internal disagreements happen? Does everyone that was in that disbanded guild at the time the house was purchased have access to it in perpetuity?

Woefulmonkey · January 2018

@WaterBearer

I am a Software Engineer and I can tell you what I described is a 'BIG' ask for sure, and you are right I think it is likely more than you can hope for in the 'short term'.

However, weather or not work like this is done is really more about how profitable it would be expected to be than it is about how difficult it is to implement.

So, don't be afraid to ask for something you really want, just be aware that unless they can justify the cost it will probably never happen.

However, at the same time, if it is something thing that can be show 'will' generate significant revenue it would be much more likely to happen.

Which then means if they did do something like this, it would be 'Very Expensive' which would mean 'Community' funding is a must. (I am talking about a guild house that might cost $1000 in 'Real' money and then have something like a $5 a month fee to maintain).

The real questions that needs to be answered are:

1. ) Is Player' home development currently profitable to ESO?
2. ) How many guilds are their and how likely would they be to 'Pay' for specialized 'Guild Services' and 'Guild Homes'?
3. ) How many guilds are their who would be willing to pay say $5 a month to have a dedicated PvP 'Guild House' where 100 players can congregate at a time.

The biggest ask in what I described would be the ability to have a 'House' have more than 12 people in it at a time, which is unfortunately the most critical ask in terms of 'Guild' needs as well.

It is also the main reason that I specified 'Guild Houses' NEED to be something different than 'Player' housing.

Ask yourself, why can more 100 players be in a game Zone but only 12 people can be in your house?

It is almost certainly because the game Zone is running on a dedicated server where as your 'house' is running instanced from your own hardware. So ESO had to design 'Player' houses with the limitation of minimum hardware in mind.

Making that work with 100+ players is basically a non-starter since ESO does not control the hardware that runs the instance. So this most critical need for guilds can never be met with the current 'Housing' system.

In order to achieve that kind of guaranteed service level for a 'Guild House' they would need a 'New' system that used known dedicated resources that ESO controls. That is more costly, so if ESO can't find a way to make that profitable it will likely not happen. The most likely way to make it profitable is to make the initial cost of a 'Guild House' very high (probably 10 times that of current houses) and associated a monthly maintenance fee with these homes.

From what I have seen individuals are willing to pay for a 'Player' home with the current limitations, I think that 'Guild Homes' could be made profitable.

In answer to your last statement:

Yes, if the guild were to disband the house would be lost to everyone. Think of it this way, Guilds would not 'Buy' a home they are renting it from ESO... basically because they would be renting ESO dedicated server services.

However, I think the current problem with Players owning Guild Homes is worse.

Right now if a Player who owns a home decides to leave a Guild, they take the guild house with them. Including any furnishings and services that populate the home. Those services and furnishing may be worth 10X the value of the home and 1 player can basically 'Steal' them from the Guild on a whim.

If the Guild disbands and the Guild House is lost, it mean basically no one in the guild was willing to maintain it... so they are really saying no one actually cares about the Guild House anymore anyway.

Ideally ESO would provide ways to 'Re-Open' a guild even if it was disbanded and they would get the house back.

Finally, just remember even the 'Player' homes in ESO today are not 'Owned' they are 'Rented'... One day ESO will shut down it's last server and all the houses will be gone. Hopefully that will be a long way in the future

Ajaxandriel · January 2018

Renting guild halls could be a feature but I would not go for it, really. What about renting a whole server phase then? Paying additional month fee just to avoid other open-world people... I can't see any good reason for that but one (one reason that we asked for a while):
Dedicated roleplay phases. One per language. And this should be free, in the base game, from the release.

Woefulmonkey wrote: »

Ask yourself, why can more 100 players be in a game Zone but only 12 people can be in your house?

It is almost certainly because the game Zone is running on a dedicated server where as your 'house' is running instanced from your own hardware. So ESO had to design 'Player' houses with the limitation of minimum hardware in mind.

Making that work with 100+ players is basically a non-starter since ESO does not control the hardware that runs the instance. So this most critical need for guilds can never be met with the current 'Housing' system.

I'm not an expert so I hope I was able to understand what you mean there - so each house version would be 'generated' on the player's hardware/computer? on the client side? I can't see how it could work that way, since the addon I mentioned (PTFH) is able to let any (allowed) player-character in any secondary home from another player, even when the owner is not online...

Thanks to this addon, ZOS' system appears really good in fact, and full of promise ... but for some reason...it's like they curbed it purposedly as for now

Woefulmonkey · February 2018

@Ajaxandriel

I think there was a little bit of a misunderstanding of what I said about instanced houses.

I am saying the current housing system is almost certainly an 'instanced' system meaning 'your' house environment is running on 'your' hardware not ESO's hardware.

That means in the current system ESO must design for the 'lowest' spec machine that can run the game. Which in turn means you will likely never be able to up the player count in the existing system (At least significantly, meaning doubling or tripling the player count let alone getting 100 people in your house.)

So, in order for them to get some kind of 'Guild' environment that can house more that a handful of players, they have to do something different than the existing housing system.

In order to get 'game like' player count in any kind of environment ESO would have provide it's own dedicated hardware and manage it. Which is costly not just initially but on a monthly basis just like the actual game servers.

I am not actually a fan of the 'Rent' model I described either, what I am saying is if there is enough serious interest in a 'pay' solution to for 'Guilds' ESO might actually do something.

However, I don't think they will do something that costly for a 'Free' add on. Even Dungeons which we pay for are almost certainly instanced solutions meaning it is running on some kind of temporary cheap server not the dedicated main game server (they may even be running from one of the player machines).

Now, there are other things ESO could do for Guilds that kind of 'cheat' to give you a 'mass player' experience for Guild meetings.

They could create 'Guild Meeting Halls' that are accessible from the main server (not owned by anyone) where 'Guilds' could schedule meetings on a specific server. Then the 'location' would be 'locked' and only members of the guild could access it for a limited time.

This requires much less 'new' work to just means make a space on the current game server that can restrict access to specific guilds for a limited time.

Guild's could not 'own' that space but they could 'rent' it sort of like renting out a restaurant or a theater for a company event in the real world.

Now that option could probably be done with a 'Free' add on and would not require guilds to come up with lots of up front money or pay a monthly fee.

However, there would probably need to be some kind of 'scheduling' mechanism that at least involved in game gold to 'Rent' a meeting hall, and ensure Guilds can't monopolize a space for too long.

Example.

Imaging if an entire 'Walled Town' in the existing game could be 'Locked Down' for 2 hours so only members of a Guild could enter. Now you can have mass Guild Gatherings in the Game world. However, you could not 'own' that space or schedule it more than say once a week.