Avran_Sylt wrote: »These are my own ideas, and I hope to hear criticism about them and/or your own ideas for the Nightblade as well.
Pulling from https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/374513/new-nightblade-skill-replacing-agony-change-to-backstab/p1:Avran_Sylt wrote: »To be honest, I think that agony (Malefic Offering) should be left alone. It adds in a healing that is so different from the standard norm, I think its a good thing, for now, as it gives NB healing a uniqueness.
What I honestly think (and this is just quick speculation), is that the Master Assassin passive should be tweaked a bit. And at least a few skill should be shifted around.
To begin with:
Master Assassin now increases your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage by [x]% against targets facing away from you (+ the sneak stun bonus).
I would then take Veiled Attack, and swap it's position with Blur, then Swap Veiled Attack and Assassin's Blade in the skill unlock list.Avran_Sylt wrote: »@Shadzilla
Of course.
My next suggestion would be to then do this:
Teleport Strike:
Part of the base skill and carrying over to the morphs:
Casting this from stealth or cloak teleports you behind your target, or the nearest valid terrain.
Now you have a way to re-position yourself behind an enemy, it comes with a little setup so that you aren't always behind your enemy (requiring you to at least spend magicka on cloak while in combat), as well as giving you a way to gap close into your passive ability. (Having the camera rotate for the player automatically might be a good thing here). (This is also kinda a nerf as a PvP guy could expect a newb using Teleport strike all the time with cloak to always show up behind them).
Mark Target, Implications for NB in PvP
Now that Surprise Attack is in the Assassination Tree, it might be beneficial to change the functionality of the stamina morph of Surprise Attack so this is the skill they need to apply an armor debuff rather than sNB spamming SA all the time.
At this point, SA (and veiled strike) has been gutted absolutely ruthlessly. It now no longer debuffs the enemy with Major Fracture for sNB, but for both mNB and sNB you no longer gain Major Resistance buffs from spamming this attack.
So, at this point, how can Veiled Strike be buffed (or other aspects of the NB skills) in order to compensate for this tremendous amount of nerf in regards to self-buffs and target debuffs?
My thoughts on this are as follows:
Change Master Assassin (in the Assassination Skill Tree), to increase WD and SD against targets facing away from you (by the current amount that is applied to the sneaking bonus)
Move Veiled Strike (SA) into the Assassination Tree, replacing Blur (into Shadow) and swapping Assassin's Blade(Killer's Blade) with Veiled Strike(SA)
Teleport Strike (base functionality) will now position you behind your Target if cast from cloak or stealth or invisibility.
Veiled Strike (base functionality) will no longer stun from stealth or cloak, but will instead ignore blocking mitigation if cast from behind an enemy.
Surprise Attack (VS) will no longer debuff with Major Fracture, but instead will have different functionality. It will now grant the Stun bonus that was removed in the base skill.
Now NB is much more position dependent, and can take down permablocking tanks if they're silly enough to expose their back to the NB. However this comes at the cost of not getting Major Resistance Buffs from spamming Surprise attack, as well as relegating Major Fracture to Mark Target.
I'd love to hear constructive criticism about this, as well as your own ideas. (Constructive criticism does not mean "applauding" the idea. but rather offering feedback with reasoning behind it. It could be negative criticism but with solid reasoning behind it. Remaining Civil is always a plus.)
Avran_Sylt wrote: »These are my own ideas, and I hope to hear criticism about them and/or your own ideas for the Nightblade as well.
Pulling from https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/374513/new-nightblade-skill-replacing-agony-change-to-backstab/p1:Avran_Sylt wrote: »To be honest, I think that agony (Malefic Offering) should be left alone. It adds in a healing that is so different from the standard norm, I think its a good thing, for now, as it gives NB healing a uniqueness.
What I honestly think (and this is just quick speculation), is that the Master Assassin passive should be tweaked a bit. And at least a few skill should be shifted around.
To begin with:
Master Assassin now increases your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage by [x]% against targets facing away from you (+ the sneak stun bonus).
I would then take Veiled Attack, and swap it's position with Blur, then Swap Veiled Attack and Assassin's Blade in the skill unlock list.Avran_Sylt wrote: »@Shadzilla
Of course.
My next suggestion would be to then do this:
Teleport Strike:
Part of the base skill and carrying over to the morphs:
Casting this from stealth or cloak teleports you behind your target, or the nearest valid terrain.
Now you have a way to re-position yourself behind an enemy, it comes with a little setup so that you aren't always behind your enemy (requiring you to at least spend magicka on cloak while in combat), as well as giving you a way to gap close into your passive ability. (Having the camera rotate for the player automatically might be a good thing here). (This is also kinda a nerf as a PvP guy could expect a newb using Teleport strike all the time with cloak to always show up behind them).
Mark Target, Implications for NB in PvP
Now that Surprise Attack is in the Assassination Tree, it might be beneficial to change the functionality of the stamina morph of Surprise Attack so this is the skill they need to apply an armor debuff rather than sNB spamming SA all the time.
At this point, SA (and veiled strike) has been gutted absolutely ruthlessly. It now no longer debuffs the enemy with Major Fracture for sNB, but for both mNB and sNB you no longer gain Major Resistance buffs from spamming this attack.
So, at this point, how can Veiled Strike be buffed (or other aspects of the NB skills) in order to compensate for this tremendous amount of nerf in regards to self-buffs and target debuffs?
My thoughts on this are as follows:
Change Master Assassin (in the Assassination Skill Tree), to increase WD and SD against targets facing away from you (by the current amount that is applied to the sneaking bonus)
Move Veiled Strike (SA) into the Assassination Tree, replacing Blur (into Shadow) and swapping Assassin's Blade(Killer's Blade) with Veiled Strike(SA)
Teleport Strike (base functionality) will now position you behind your Target if cast from cloak or stealth or invisibility.
Veiled Strike (base functionality) will no longer stun from stealth or cloak, but will instead ignore blocking mitigation if cast from behind an enemy.
Surprise Attack (VS) will no longer debuff with Major Fracture, but instead will have different functionality. It will now grant the Stun bonus that was removed in the base skill.
Now NB is much more position dependent, and can take down permablocking tanks if they're silly enough to expose their back to the NB. However this comes at the cost of not getting Major Resistance Buffs from spamming Surprise attack, as well as relegating Major Fracture to Mark Target.
I'd love to hear constructive criticism about this, as well as your own ideas. (Constructive criticism does not mean "applauding" the idea. but rather offering feedback with reasoning behind it. It could be negative criticism but with solid reasoning behind it. Remaining Civil is always a plus.)
Those are a lot of buffs/changes for a class that is already very potent and getting buffed this patch. I do think that Surprise Attack and Blur should swap lines for cohesion and so that SA can take advantage of the buffed Executioner passive.
As far as mNB goes, my biggest complaint is that the Assassin's Will proc is very very clunky. They're improving that, so we're going to need to see how that plays out. But in general I think both Magicka and Stamina NB are in very good spots right now.
The last thing you want is for NB to get overbuffed because when it inevitably gets nerfed to compensate ZOS will go overboard with both direct and indirect nerfs. Trust me on this, I've played a DK since beta.
Once you master proc'ing the bow its GG tho on mageblade. I typically always pop 2 spectral bows off per cast of merciless and could probably get 3 if I didn't prefer to recast it before going back to resto bar after my second proc. That's mostly just preference because then I'm not pressured to get back to front bar so I don't miss my proc. I've taken to slotting degeneration back bar (since I chugged 3k spell power pots and didn't bother to farm more mats) and using that to empower either the bow or an ultimate after bar swap.
Niiiice, yeah it's extremely satisfying (and devastating) to land the proc in PvP. I'm definitely nowhere near getting 3 procs off per cast though lol, I've got a ways to go. But I am looking forward to being able to animation cancel the proc next patch.
Avran_Sylt wrote: »
Avran_Sylt wrote: »These are my own ideas, and I hope to hear criticism about them and/or your own ideas for the Nightblade as well.
Pulling from https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/374513/new-nightblade-skill-replacing-agony-change-to-backstab/p1:Avran_Sylt wrote: »To be honest, I think that agony (Malefic Offering) should be left alone. It adds in a healing that is so different from the standard norm, I think its a good thing, for now, as it gives NB healing a uniqueness.
What I honestly think (and this is just quick speculation), is that the Master Assassin passive should be tweaked a bit. And at least a few skill should be shifted around.
To begin with:
Master Assassin now increases your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage by [x]% against targets facing away from you (+ the sneak stun bonus).
I would then take Veiled Attack, and swap it's position with Blur, then Swap Veiled Attack and Assassin's Blade in the skill unlock list.Avran_Sylt wrote: »@Shadzilla
Of course.
My next suggestion would be to then do this:
Teleport Strike:
Part of the base skill and carrying over to the morphs:
Casting this from stealth or cloak teleports you behind your target, or the nearest valid terrain.
Now you have a way to re-position yourself behind an enemy, it comes with a little setup so that you aren't always behind your enemy (requiring you to at least spend magicka on cloak while in combat), as well as giving you a way to gap close into your passive ability. (Having the camera rotate for the player automatically might be a good thing here). (This is also kinda a nerf as a PvP guy could expect a newb using Teleport strike all the time with cloak to always show up behind them).
Mark Target, Implications for NB in PvP
Now that Surprise Attack is in the Assassination Tree, it might be beneficial to change the functionality of the stamina morph of Surprise Attack so this is the skill they need to apply an armor debuff rather than sNB spamming SA all the time.
At this point, SA (and veiled strike) has been gutted absolutely ruthlessly. It now no longer debuffs the enemy with Major Fracture for sNB, but for both mNB and sNB you no longer gain Major Resistance buffs from spamming this attack.
So, at this point, how can Veiled Strike be buffed (or other aspects of the NB skills) in order to compensate for this tremendous amount of nerf in regards to self-buffs and target debuffs?
My thoughts on this are as follows:
Change Master Assassin (in the Assassination Skill Tree), to increase WD and SD against targets facing away from you (by the current amount that is applied to the sneaking bonus)
Move Veiled Strike (SA) into the Assassination Tree, replacing Blur (into Shadow) and swapping Assassin's Blade(Killer's Blade) with Veiled Strike(SA)
Teleport Strike (base functionality) will now position you behind your Target if cast from cloak or stealth or invisibility.
Veiled Strike (base functionality) will no longer stun from stealth or cloak, but will instead ignore blocking mitigation if cast from behind an enemy.
Surprise Attack (VS) will no longer debuff with Major Fracture, but instead will have different functionality. It will now grant the Stun bonus that was removed in the base skill.
Now NB is much more position dependent, and can take down permablocking tanks if they're silly enough to expose their back to the NB. However this comes at the cost of not getting Major Resistance Buffs from spamming Surprise attack, as well as relegating Major Fracture to Mark Target.
I'd love to hear constructive criticism about this, as well as your own ideas. (Constructive criticism does not mean "applauding" the idea. but rather offering feedback with reasoning behind it. It could be negative criticism but with solid reasoning behind it. Remaining Civil is always a plus.)
Those are a lot of buffs/changes for a class that is already very potent and getting buffed this patch. I do think that Surprise Attack and Blur should swap lines for cohesion and so that SA can take advantage of the buffed Executioner passive.
As far as mNB goes, my biggest complaint is that the Assassin's Will proc is very very clunky. They're improving that, so we're going to need to see how that plays out. But in general I think both Magicka and Stamina NB are in very good spots right now.
The last thing you want is for NB to get overbuffed because when it inevitably gets nerfed to compensate ZOS will go overboard with both direct and indirect nerfs. Trust me on this, I've played a DK since beta.
Once you master proc'ing the bow its GG tho on mageblade. I typically always pop 2 spectral bows off per cast of merciless and could probably get 3 if I didn't prefer to recast it before going back to resto bar after my second proc. That's mostly just preference because then I'm not pressured to get back to front bar so I don't miss my proc. I've taken to slotting degeneration back bar (since I chugged 3k spell power pots and didn't bother to farm more mats) and using that to empower either the bow or an ultimate after bar swap.
Niiiice, yeah it's extremely satisfying (and devastating) to land the proc in PvP. I'm definitely nowhere near getting 3 procs off per cast though lol, I've got a ways to go. But I am looking forward to being able to animation cancel the proc next patch.
Definitely some interesting ideas there.
I especially like the idea of moving Surprise Attack to Assassination skill tree, it seems like a much better fit there & it'd make Shadow a purely "utility" skill line, giving it some identity (as they're doing with Siphoning, by making it the "healing" skill line).
There's one downside though: stamblades are extremely squishy in PvE, so you'd need some skill on Shadow skill line you can utilize in PvE for the Major buffs. ZOS mentioned a while ago they were planning on making stealth a more integral part of stamblade PvE DPS, so we'll see I guess.
As for removing Major Fracture from SA, that'd be a pretty big nerf and I'm not sure if it'd be a necessary one (would probably make every NB run Piercing Mark for it, resulting in frustrating PvP).
Teleport Strike: I'd like them to keep as it is for Lotus Fan, but remove Major Empower from Ambush (you don't land anything after Ambushing anyway vs good players/Miats) & add your suggestion of teleporting behind target.
Avran_Sylt wrote: »
Teleport Strike (base functionality) will now position you behind your Target if cast from cloak or stealth or invisibility.
I understand where you are going with your proposed changes and why, my point however is that not everyone plays their Nightbalde that way.Avran_Sylt wrote: »My aim is not just extra damage from behind, but eventually have that play into the NB class as a whole through utilization with stealth.
I like the Nightblade class skills for my build , especially the "Assassination" line has a lot of very useful buff/debuff skills and passives for a dual wield brawler. Only one of the passives is stealth based, the rest work great for normal combat.Avran_Sylt wrote: »Could I ask then the reasoning behind your choice of NB for a brawler? And not something like a stamDK?
Most logical choice? Probably not.Avran_Sylt wrote: »Fair enough. However, does brawling via the upfront buffs/debuffs offered by an "Assassination" skill line seem to be the most logical choice? Would it not be better suited for another class whose thematic archetype is not that of a rogue?
Sure, WTB Class change token ...Avran_Sylt wrote: »Hate to see disappear on the NB? Or hate to see disappear as a whole? As it could certainly be possible to shift that play-style onto another class.