Remove Shield Breaker and/or Give us a full counter to Cloak/Stealth

josh.lackey_ESO · September 2017

This set is the most abusive set being used on the most abusive build and class, focus spamming on any magsorc they see, it's not just normal pvp, they find any magsorc and tab target them and chase them down relentlessly. I look at my combat log and it's 6-8 procs of shield breaker from 1 person in a span of 4 or 5 seconds.

I want a set that lets me see through stealth, and if I light attack spam the nightblade, it procs an extra 2k unresistable, undodgeable damage to them with no cooldown. That would be balanced and fair compared to how Shield Breaker currently works. I suggest this set be called Cloak Breaker. Then I can wear it on my sorc be chase down all nightblades and spam light attacks and ruin their gameplay experience and abuse and harass them they way the Shield Breaker people currently do to Sorcs.

Maybe the harassment will make the game so much less fun for them they quit ESO, because frankly I am nearly there. Too bad you are running off the good players and rewarding the most toxic members of the community. It's not even about the mechanics of the set, it's about certain players looking to find the most abusive mechanics and abuse them to harass others. It's not competitive pvp, it's not really anything but trolling. Have fun with that. Maybe you can can sustain the game selling vanity pets to the trolls.

Brrrofski · September 2017

It'll die down in a few weeks. It's only popular again because of the event.

Tryxus · September 2017

So that huge list of counters to Cloak and Stealth isn't enough already?

Pastas · September 2017

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

This set is the most abusive set being used on the most abusive build and class, focus spamming on any magsorc they see, it's not just normal pvp, they find any magsorc and tab target them and chase them down relentlessly. I look at my combat log and it's 6-8 procs of shield breaker from 1 person in a span of 4 or 5 seconds.

I want a set that lets me see through stealth, and if I light attack spam the nightblade, it procs an extra 2k unresistable, undodgeable damage to them with no cooldown. That would be balanced and fair compared to how Shield Breaker currently works. I suggest this set be called Cloak Breaker. Then I can wear it on my sorc be chase down all nightblades and spam light attacks and ruin their gameplay experience and abuse and harass them they way the Shield Breaker people currently do to Sorcs.

Maybe the harassment will make the game so much less fun for them they quit ESO, because frankly I am nearly there. Too bad you are running off the good players and rewarding the most toxic members of the community. It's not even about the mechanics of the set, it's about certain players looking to find the most abusive mechanics and abuse them to harass others. It's not competitive pvp, it's not really anything but trolling. Have fun with that. Maybe you can can sustain the game selling vanity pets to the trolls.

Cloak has its counters, in fact it has more counters than shields. Would you like to see potions and poisons that prevents you from using shields for 4 seconds? or all aoe atacks ignoring shields?
I don't like the SB set idea but as long as devs don't add any other counter to shields it must stay in the game.

And please don't ask for more undodgeable mechaniccs, we already have a enough of them.

Biro123 · September 2017

I play magsorc.. I use dodge to get out of AOE's.. Just saying.

WillhelmBlack · September 2017

Just wish detect wasn't a tick and constant instead.

Unfadingsilence · September 2017

Just a L2P post here ppl just move on nothing to see

DocFrost72 · September 2017

This just has to be a troll. I refuse to believe OP wants "a" counter to stealth.

Edit: 2017-09-17_10.51.24.png

Go nuts.

Waffennacht · September 2017

@DocFrost72 a player tested that set and it works far less well than implied.

There are so many cloak counters, detect pot being an almost auto win, there are even anti cloak poisons too

Hell if it's that much of a problem slot that flare morph

Shield breaker is pretty straight forward, sure it's annoying but they are using a full set just for you

gabriebe · September 2017

Yea, just to add to the pile, stealth already has tons of counters. Just something as simply annoying, cheap and long lasting as ritual of retribution prevents stealthing.

Now imagine if casting an AOE dropped your enemy's shields...

It's one set, deal with it. And on that note, I'm gonna buy some with those Telvars I made lol.

Waffennacht · September 2017

gabriebe wrote: »

Yea, just to add to the pile, stealth already has tons of counters. Just something as simply annoying, cheap and long lasting as ritual of retribution prevents stealthing.

Now imagine if casting an AOE dropped your enemy's shields...

It's one set, deal with it. And on that note, I'm gonna buy some with those Telvars I made lol.

I'm a mag player and almost bought a full jewelry set from a guild store, I think it's a niche set and makes for interesting builds. It's unfortunate most players only think to pew with a bow in a Zerg.

Think of it as a better tool against Healing Ward. Back bar an infused Oblivion weapon that's the 5th piece breaker there and you have a shield proof Execute (roughly 4k damage is significant) and you don't just sit in the back

artal · September 2017

I'm against shieldbreaker even though I'm not playing sorc much. But all these little kiddies crying and wanting to nerf this and that... now cloak... well why don't we trade cloak for your shields

Zeromaz · September 2017

Its not possible to get off 6-8 light attacks in 5 seconds. You exaggerate and you lie. I'm done.

Tormy · September 2017

I love shield breaker. Makes sorcs have zero defense vs my nb

Biro123 · September 2017

Zeromaz wrote: »

Its not possible to get off 6-8 light attacks in 5 seconds. You exaggerate and you lie. I'm done.

Why not? Weapon light attacks fire at different rates. Bow is the fastest at every 0.6 seconds. In 5 seconds, you can do 8 light attacks. Which equals over 17000 unresistable damage. More if you add in oblivion enchants and/or infused.

Very possible to kill a sorc in 5 seconds with this. How long does healing ward take to land its heal? 6 seconds.

DocFrost72 · September 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

@DocFrost72 a player tested that set and it works far less well than implied.

There are so many cloak counters, detect pot being an almost auto win, there are even anti cloak poisons too

Hell if it's that much of a problem slot that flare morph

Shield breaker is pretty straight forward, sure it's annoying but they are using a full set just for you

Whatcha mean less than implied? Genuinely curious (though not for use. I never saw a need to use a 5 piece to counter something an aoe can totally break).

If you're in full medium and a bosmer/khajiit, it will of course be less than half a player with no investment.

WillhelmBlack · September 2017

DocFrost72 wrote: »

This just has to be a troll. I refuse to believe OP wants "a" counter to stealth.

Edit:
Go nuts.

Sentry doesn't work well. I saw no difference.

DocFrost72 · September 2017

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

This just has to be a troll. I refuse to believe OP wants "a" counter to stealth.

Edit:
Go nuts.

Sentry doesn't work well. I saw no difference.

Remember if they're stacked into reduction, they can get their detection range into the 5m range or so, meaning the 50% makes it a mere 7.5m.

Do you know if the damage component works, cause if you pop a detect pot and drop an ulti...

SodanTok · September 2017

DocFrost72 wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

This just has to be a troll. I refuse to believe OP wants "a" counter to stealth.

Edit:
Go nuts.

Sentry doesn't work well. I saw no difference.

Remember if they're stacked into reduction, they can get their detection range into the 5m range or so, meaning the 50% makes it a mere 7.5m.

Do you know if the damage component works, cause if you pop a detect pot and drop an ulti...

I think its more like 2m so... 3m?

(medium + stealthy)

It should increase detect pots range. The should being the operative word, because I've never tested it and would not have been even surprised if it did not.

ak_pvp · September 2017

ZOS is notorious for band aid fixes.

How 2 fix the fix.

Remove shieldbreaker. Nerf shields, buff streak. Imo half the cost and remove cost increase, but add cooldown. This would allow sorcs to use streak more often in combats to reposition, but not spam it to run away. Make mines cheaper too. Make sorc use movement/ranged for defence and not facetanky DK style.

Cloak is broken by everything and its mother, make stationary GBAOEs not affect it. Instead have a 1s cooldown after direct attacks. i.e. dodge->cloak. It then becomes less spammable, but when in cloak, more useful.

Stop heatseeking birds.

Biro123 · September 2017

Doesn't make sense to compare shields with cloak. Cloak users combine it with either a shield or dodge/block and passive heals.

What gets through cloak has to also get through harness or either dodge/block +vigour.

So where mag NB gets shield and cloak, magsorc gets shield and shield... Having a single mechanic that goes straight through both of a classes main defences is not good for the game. The fix IMHO is to make hardened/harness work in very different ways, with different counters.

Vizier · September 2017

Full Counter to Cloak and Stealth? You mean like magelight? Flare? AOE's, Potions of detection etc? LOL Please.

Hurika · September 2017

Dear OP - they are adding that set you requested. Also please be informed they are also adding the following to ensure equality:

Potion of bypass shield
Stam morph of magelight that prevents you from casting a shield for 4s
Shield durration the same as cloak duration (2.5s - 3s)
Shield now absorbs 1 hit (regardless of damage) similar to cloak and then immediately drops
Shield will randomly fail 50% of the time
Flare prevents casting of shields for 4s.
If you attack while your shield is up, your shield immediately drops.

Enjoy

Waffennacht · September 2017

Hurika wrote: »

Dear OP - they are adding that set you requested. Also please be informed they are also adding the following to ensure equality:
Potion of bypass shield

Stam morph of magelight that prevents you from casting a shield for 4s

Shield durration the same as cloak duration (2.5s - 3s)

Shield now absorbs 1 hit (regardless of damage) similar to cloak and then immediately drops

Shield will randomly fail 50% of the time

Flare prevents casting of shields for 4s.

If you attack while your shield is up, your shield immediately drops.

Enjoy

Cool, SnB remains the best mitigation tool

Unfadingsilence · September 2017

I love how ppl who get hit with Shield breaker the first thing they do is start stacking Shields... gitgud and L2P

Biro123 · September 2017

Unfadingsilence wrote: »

I love how ppl who get hit with Shield breaker the first thing they do is start stacking Shields... gitgud and L2P

That would be because a strong shield-stack is needed to handle all the non-oblivion damage to give you time to try to handle the oblivion damage with your crappy heals..

Not shielding = death. Using shieldbreaker doesn't suddenly mean not-shielding = surviving.

L2P and gitgud with your SB crutch.

josh.lackey_ESO · September 2017

Zeromaz wrote: »

Its not possible to get off 6-8 light attacks in 5 seconds. You exaggerate and you lie. I'm done.

You're wrong. It's very common. This is a screenshot I took just now. 12 procs in 7.6 seconds. It's usually about 1.5 - 2 procs per second.

Definitely not a l2p issue unless never playing light armor or magicka classes is how you l2p. I think the set is bugged, or people have found a way to exploit it. I don't understand why in the world this set doesn't at least have a proc cooldown like every other set.

I only compare it to cloak because it's always, ALWAYS a nightblade running the set. I have never had any other class use it against me. Just spamming bow light attacks melts you in seconds with no real options unless you go stamsorc or some kind of heavy armor tank sorc. But even if I had 30k health and 30k resists, it would just make it a couple more seconds to burn me. It's just absurd. If you're going to have something this broken, there should be a set that lets you melt down any class by simply spamming light attacks, bypassing any skill or defenses or counter play. Might as well just make a set "when you light attack <class> they immediately die."

It doesn't need to "die down" it needs to be fixed, OR if ZOS won't fix it, please break the game for every single class and spec, so if you wear a "hard counter" set, you can kill them in a few seconds just by spamming light attacks. Honestly I have more respect for people who run cheat engine. Shame on ZOS for this crap. Shame on players who abuse this broken mechanic. You deserve to be banned.

Biro123 · September 2017

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

Zeromaz wrote: »

Its not possible to get off 6-8 light attacks in 5 seconds. You exaggerate and you lie. I'm done.

You're wrong. It's very common. This is a screenshot I took just now. 12 procs in 7.6 seconds. It's usually about 1.5 - 2 procs per seconds.

Definitely not a l2p issue unless never playing light armor or magicka classes is how you l2p. I think the set is bugged, or people have found a way to exploit it. I don't understand why in the world this set doesn't at least have a proc cooldown like every other set.

I only compare it to cloak because it's always, ALWAYS a nightblade running the set. I have never had any other class use it against me. Just spamming bow light attacks melts you in seconds with no real options unless you go stamsorc or some kind of heavy armor tank sorc. But even if I had 30k health and 30k resists, it would just make it a couple more seconds to burn me. It's just absurd. If you're going to have something this broken, there should be a set that lets you melt down any class by simply spamming light attacks, bypassing any skill or defenses or counter play. Might as well just make a set "when you light attack <class> they immediately die."

It doesn't need to "die down" it needs to be fixed, OR if ZOS won't fix it, please break the game for every single class and spec, so if you wear a "hard counter" set, you can kill them in a few seconds just by spamming light attacks. Honestly I have more respect for people who run cheat engine. Shame on ZOS for this crap. Shame on player who abuse this broken mechanic. You deserve to be banned.

Surprised not to see the usual infused oblivion enchants in there too.. Good screenshot actually... I especially like that there was a healing-ward heal in there and some small hots... - making not a lot of difference...

To be honest though, I do seem to see LESS shieldbreaker use now.. not sure why... Its still broken though.

josh.lackey_ESO · September 2017

Biro123 wrote: »

Surprised not to see the usual infused oblivion enchants in there too..

I know, right?!

I do have more screenshots, and most do include in oblivion damage enchants (which makes me think it's certain toxic players trying to maximize a broken mechanic to be abusive). I just posted this one because it literally just happened. I always screenshot when I die like this to have a large library of proof that Shield Breaker is absurd. With the enchant and an infused weapon, it might take 5 seconds instead of 7.

I doesn't happen constantly, but it usually happens several times a day. Usually it's one random jerk who focuses you and looks for you over and over again, and will chase you indefinitely. Everyone gets chased sometimes, it's fine, it's the nature of the game. But people running shield breaker are the most relentless chasers I've ever encountered. Probably because they not only know they're getting a free kill, but because they get some twisted pleasure out of victimizing others, and this game provides some kind of outlet. I guess better in a game than in real life. But that's all I'll say about that.

Biro123 · September 2017

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Surprised not to see the usual infused oblivion enchants in there too..

I know, right?! I do have more screenshots, and most do include in oblivion damage enchants (which makes me think it's certain toxic players trying to maximize a broken mechanic to be abusive). I just posted this one because it literally just happened. I always screenshot when I die like this to have a large library of proof that Shield Breaker is absurd. With the enchant and an infused weapon, it might take 5 seconds instead of 7.

I doesn't happen constantly, but it usually happens several times a day. Usually it's one random jerk who focuses you and looks for you over and over again, and will chase you indefinitely. Everyone gets chased sometimes, it's fine, it's the nature of the game. But people running shield breaker are the most relentless chasers I've ever encountered. Probably because they not only know they're getting a free kill, but because they get some twisted pleasure out of victimizing others, and this game provides some kind of outlet. I guess better in a game than in real life. But that's all I'll say about that.

And don't forget the T-bag. They always follow with a T-Bag..

Lord-Otto · September 2017

Cloakbreaker would do nothing.

Nightblades sure like to deny it, but their "squishy" class works fine without Cloak. Main defense is heal, not stealth. Argue with me about it, but then play for a day without cloak, and then one without any heals.

Cloak and dodge and block are additional mitigation tools to level the field for those HoTs. The true difference between heals and shields is the latter's bursty, instant nature. However, the mitigation tools provide unrivaled 1vX usefulness, as well.

The equivalent to Shieldbreaker is HEALBREAKER - deal X amount of damage that can't be healed for Y seconds.
Shieldbreaker forces certain magicka classes to rely on their underwhelming secondary defense, heals. Healbreaker would do the same, you would have to roll, block and... Bone Shield. Yes, if sorcs are supposed to use Mutagen, Nightblades should be forced to use Bone Shield.

Of course, this is absurd design. Hard counters like SB are unenjoyable for both sides. Sorc's point of view is obvious, but is it really fun to plink plink a sorc to death with a bow from behind a zerg? Duck Hunt sounds more interesting, tbh. SB has to go and shields have to be looked at - honestly, only Harness Magicka.

And no, the AoE dodge counters or the reveal stealth counters do not contribute to this argumentation. AoEs are weak and short-ranged, Magelight is borderline useless unless you already stepped on a stealther's foot. When Pulsar deals as much damage as Force Pulse, and Magelight isn't reduced by passives, we can talk. But right now, the bazillion of Cloak and dodge counters still is nothing compared to a full hard counter that can be used from 36 meters range and costs no slots, but a measly fifth bonus you could run on your backbar.