Dunmer and Werewolves/Vampires

shadow11wolf50 · August 2017

Little bit of a question and perhaps debate. Since Dunmer (espescally in Morrowwind), regardless of era, acknowledge the daedra as gods. Even worshiping them through most eras. And its not unheard of to pick daedra outside of the three Azur, Bo, and Me, to be their daedra of fancy. Would it be reasonable to assume that Werewolves and Vampires aren't shunned in morrowwind, and possibly even tolerated in open Dunmer Society. Given they arent murdering people in broad daylight.

I cant find anything that states for it or against it. So let the discussion begin

Korah_Eaglecry · August 2017

Praying to and worshiping the "Good Daedra" doesnt mean they are open to Werewolves and Vampires openly walking around their markets and neighborhoods.

Werewolves and Vampires are dangerous and legitimate threats to Men and Mer. Would sheep be comfortable with wolves walking through their herd? Mortals are prey to these predators. Individuals may pray and worship Molag Bal and Hircine and even offer themselves to their service but its a bit of a stretch to assume a community of Dunmer are going to see Werewolves and Vampires as anything but the abominations that they are.

starkerealm · August 2017

Although ESO doesn't really take this route, Vampires in Morrowind are considered to be monsters, abominations, and killed on sight. This is in contrast to other parts of Tamriel where they're feared, but not always hunted down and killed.

Morrowind as a whole has remarkably few werewolf packs, and to the best of my knowledge, no unique lycanthrope strains. The only place we've ever actually seen lycanthropes in Morrowind is on Solstheim (specifically a pack of wolves in the third era, another pack in the fourth, and bears in the fourth.)

It's probably worth remembering that neither Lycanthropes, nor Vampires, are associated with the Dunmeri "good Daedra." So, no, they don't get any special treatment, and vampires arguably face more persecution in their lands. (Though, again, we don't actually see that with Lamae's bloodline, in ESO.)

notimetocare · August 2017

Due to ancestor worship and reverence among the dunmer, Vampires are very likely to be more hated as well. Infection of a dunmers kin is a curse to Coldharbour

WhiteCoatSyndrome · August 2017

@shadow11wolf50 You might find this of interest:

Vampires were believed to be extinct in Morrowind for centuries. Dunmer culture has a special hatred for vampires, and in earlier times the Ordinators and Buoyant Armigers hunted them to extinction. In recent years, however, vampires have either begun to sneak into Morrowind, or long-dormant ones have been awakened. Vampires vary in their substance and power according to their age and accumulated lore, but even the weakest vampire is immeasurably stronger than most other undead.

Given that the Altmer also have a strong dislike of vampires it may be a cultural facet retained from before they became Dunmer. Or a natural result of any creature disliking being on someone else's menu. And I can think of a number of reasons the Tribunal might take a disliking to a group of immortal bloodrinkers:

1.) They prey on the Tribunal's worshiper base, removing worshipers and making the Tribunal look weak and un-godlike if not dealt with.
2.) A powerful vampire clan could start stealing political power behind the scenes, eroding the control of the Tribunal.
3.) Vivec claims he had an affair with Molag Bal which ended badly - if there's even a little truth to that, then he's got reason for a personal grudge against Molag Bal, and vampires come from that Prince.
4.) Having immortal vampires running around could remind the average worshiper that there are ways other than godhood of attaining immortality and that could lead to them drawing...inappropriate conclusions.
5.) They had to surrender to at least one vampire. (At the very least, someone in Morrowind had the vampire Potentate assassinated. And the Morag Tong doesn't generally get involved in matters outside of Morrowind...)

starkerealm · August 2017

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

@shadow11wolf50 You might find this of interest:

Vampires were believed to be extinct in Morrowind for centuries. Dunmer culture has a special hatred for vampires, and in earlier times the Ordinators and Buoyant Armigers hunted them to extinction. In recent years, however, vampires have either begun to sneak into Morrowind, or long-dormant ones have been awakened. Vampires vary in their substance and power according to their age and accumulated lore, but even the weakest vampire is immeasurably stronger than most other undead.

ESO adds some context to that, oddly enough.

Volrina Quarra was infected sometime around the events of ESO (either shortly before you met her on Vvardenfell or sometime afterwards), founding a new clan in the process. Additionally, the Berne clan appears on Vvardenfell in ESO. Finally, if I remember correctly (and I might not, here), Galur Rithari (the Boyant Armiger who was infected with vampirism) was infected by a member of the Aundae clan.

This means, of the three specific clans of vampires active on Vvardenfell in the third era, all are active 800 years earlier (though it's possible that Aundae isn't extensively active on Vvardenfell in the second era, and that Galur was infected by a stray clan member.)

Given the Tribunal's habit of being economical with the truth, this suggests that they've claimed that vampires were extinct, but in actuality, they were restricted to the wilds, with uninfected escaping survivors being rare enough that their presence was (mostly) hidden.

The unaffiliated vampires you encounter in TES3 may be new arrivals however. And it's possible that Legions of the Dead is responding to these clanless vampires arriving on Vvardenfell along with the Imperial colonization.

MythicEmperor · August 2017

If you've ever played TES: 3, you'd know that they are definitely shunned

Ratzkifal · August 2017

House Telvanni is probably the only place where being a vampire doesn't exactly matter as long as you are not making any trouble. Some of the mages are trying to extend their lives through various means and vampirism is one of the known methods that work quite well. I do not know their take on werewolfs but I can only assume that they dislike them just as any other House since there is no intellectual benefit from being an oversized flee dispenser.

Drazkyth · August 2017

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Praying to and worshiping the "Good Daedra" doesnt mean they are open to Werewolves and Vampires openly walking around their markets and neighborhoods.

Werewolves and Vampires are dangerous and legitimate threats to Men and Mer. Would sheep be comfortable with wolves walking through their herd? Mortals are prey to these predators. Individuals may pray and worship Molag Bal and Hircine and even offer themselves to their service but its a bit of a stretch to assume a community of Dunmer are going to see Werewolves and Vampires as anything but the abominations that they are.

This.

starkerealm · August 2017

Ratzkifal wrote: »

House Telvanni is probably the only place where being a vampire doesn't exactly matter as long as you are not making any trouble. Some of the mages are trying to extend their lives through various means and vampirism is one of the known methods that work quite well. I do not know their take on werewolfs but I can only assume that they dislike them just as any other House since there is no intellectual benefit from being an oversized flee dispenser.

One of the Vvardenfell clans, the Aundae, are supposedly closely affiliated with House Dres. Though, I can't remember the citation on that one, I'm sorry.

crashen17b14_ESO · August 2017

Their special hatred of vampires also ties into their conditional hatred of necromancy. Dunmer worship their ancestors, and utilize what I am pretty sure is a form of necromancy to bind said amcestor spirits to their homes and such. But anything that screws with their ancestor spirits (unwillingly) really pisses them off. Vampires are closely associated with necromancers and have a tendancy to stir up spiritual trouble, and since the dunmer ancestor spirits are literal and close to them, vampires represent a danger on many, many levels.
Basically dunmer probably revere their dead more than any other race (and with good cause, their dead play very real, very active roles in their lives), so vampires and necromancers are extra special terrible.
Necromancy performed on "lesser races" however is fine and widely accepted, to the point that books on it are in wide circulation.