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Craftable 2H/Staff Weapons should be allowed to have 2 different item sets
austinwalter87ub17_ESO
✭✭✭✭✭
The reason is quite simple. 2 handers have been screwed since day 1 when it comes to itemization. Everyone running 1H/Shield or Dual Wield have the option to run 2 gear sets and a monster set (5x5x2) At the minimum, 2 handers should be craftable with 2 gear sets as a means to help grant them access to the same thing. Currently 2 handers and staves only allow you to run 2 gear sets, or 1 gear set and a monster set. This is a substantial balance issue that benefits people running 1H/Shield and Dual Wield.
This is why so many people run Dual Wield or 1H/Shield on Magicka DPS casters. They can't maximize the potential of their gear while using a staff or 2 hand melee weapon.
Edited by austinwalter87ub17_ESO on 8 January 2017 09:41 This is why so many people run Dual Wield or 1H/Shield on Magicka DPS casters. They can't maximize the potential of their gear while using a staff or 2 hand melee weapon.
PC and PS4 (bring back character transfers please?)
Templar Extraordinaire
Templar Extraordinaire
6
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oibam✭✭✭✭✭The reason why mighty 2H weapons limit the possibility to have full 5+5+2 gear is called "Balance".1 -
PS4_ZeColmeia✭✭✭✭✭2h with 2 item set slots vs the current 1 item set slot still have a disadvantage of not being able to mix and match traits and sets to optimize their gear setup. That is the balance. This faux balance of not allowing monster helms or some other 2 set really screws the value of those sets which why their at best off bar and at worst not used by a majority of the communityPSN: ***___Chan (3 _s)
Hybrid, All-Role NB0 -
Stamden✭✭✭✭✭
✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »
If someone disagrees with adding 2 piece bonuses for 2h weapons, it is because they are using VMA weapons and need to have an advantage over everybody else to feel special.
There is no logic to not have a 2 piece bonus on 2h'ers.PC NA
~Currently taking a break from the game until my DK can become something more than just a crafter~3 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If someone disagrees with adding 2 piece bonuses for 2h weapons, it is because they are using VMA weapons and need to have an advantage over everybody else to feel special.
There is no logic to not have a 2 piece bonus on 2h'ers.
Oh boy.
The logic is: it's one piece. Because 1 != 2, 1 piece does not count as 2 pieces for the purpose of set bonuses.
Flawless logic.
But, honestly, why does it matter? It's a superficial issue. You run 2H weapons if there is sufficient incentive to do so, regardless of how many set bonuses you get out of it. Stam DPS use 2H weapons in PvP because you get Major Brutality, a self-heal, a gap-closer, an execute and a cleave, and more appropriate passives (e.g., stam recovery) ... DW users do not get a heal, a gap closer, an execute, stam recovery, or a cleave (aside from the Rend ult). Mag DPS use staves (and will be even more incentivized to do so in the coming patch with the damage boost) because of the excellent abilities, ultimates, and passives. Sure, you can squeeze a bit more DPS out by running DW (due to the damage bonus from the Twin Blade & Blunt passive and the extra set piece), but that small difference just got a lot smaller.
So, sure, we can make 2H weapons count as 2 pieces but that's going to require significant changes and balancing of the active and passive abilities in each weapon tree.Edited by LiquidPony on 9 January 2017 01:450 -
austinwalter87ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »If someone disagrees with adding 2 piece bonuses for 2h weapons, it is because they are using VMA weapons and need to have an advantage over everybody else to feel special.
There is no logic to not have a 2 piece bonus on 2h'ers.
Oh boy.
The logic is: it's one piece. Because 1 != 2, 1 piece does not count as 2 pieces for the purpose of set bonuses.
Flawless logic.
But, honestly, why does it matter? It's a superficial issue. You run 2H weapons if there is sufficient incentive to do so, regardless of how many set bonuses you get out of it. Stam DPS use 2H weapons in PvP because you get Major Brutality, a self-heal, a gap-closer, an execute and a cleave, and more appropriate passives (e.g., stam recovery) ... DW users do not get a heal, a gap closer, an execute, stam recovery, or a cleave (aside from the Rend ult). Mag DPS use staves (and will be even more incentivized to do so in the coming patch with the damage boost) because of the excellent abilities, ultimates, and passives. Sure, you can squeeze a bit more DPS out by running DW (due to the damage bonus from the Twin Blade & Blunt passive and the extra set piece), but that small difference just got a lot smaller.
So, sure, we can make 2H weapons count as 2 pieces but that's going to require significant changes and balancing of the active and passive abilities in each weapon tree.
Unfortunately the changes to staves will not be enough to deter people from rocking Dual Wield or 1H/Shield for the additional damage. The loss of the 3rd gear set is more substantial than the benefits granted by using a 2 Hander.PC and PS4 (bring back character transfers please?)
Templar Extraordinaire1 -
Liofa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ITEM slots . You are using 1 item . Not 2 . Sets says in their bonus effects like this : ''5 items'' . When you look at a 2-Handed weapon , do you see 2 items ? No . Do you see 1 item ? Yes . That simple . This has nothing to do with MSA weapons since they don't give item set bonuses , they have enchantments . Just , simple , logic .
2-Hander is a powerful weapon in PvP , doesn't need any buffs . Anyone who says 2h needs a buff is probably spamming Brawler .
Bow is the best thing that ever happened to Stam DPS in PvE . Doesn't need any buffs .
Resto is self-explanatory .
Destro users who wants buffs also post videos killing 10-15 (sometimes more) players in 5 seconds . They just want to be more powerful and cry in forums non-stop for buffs to Destro and Light Armor . They are already getting buffed a lot in both damage(both PvP and PvE) and sustain(in PvP) next patch . I don't even know why .
No 2h weapon needs a huge buff like this . Make a viable build and try to figure out how weapons work . Every weapon has advantages . Learn them and make your build work . It is easier than you think . You just need to spend time and effort to your build and test it properly .1 -
austinwalter87ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭ITEM slots . You are using 1 item . Not 2 . Sets says in their bonus effects like this : ''5 items'' . When you look at a 2-Handed weapon , do you see 2 items ? No . Do you see 1 item ? Yes . That simple . This has nothing to do with MSA weapons since they don't give item set bonuses , they have enchantments . Just , simple , logic .
2-Hander is a powerful weapon in PvP , doesn't need any buffs . Anyone who says 2h needs a buff is probably spamming Brawler .
Bow is the best thing that ever happened to Stam DPS in PvE . Doesn't need any buffs .
Resto is self-explanatory .
Destro users who wants buffs also post videos killing 10-15 (sometimes more) players in 5 seconds . They just want to be more powerful and cry in forums non-stop for buffs to Destro and Light Armor . They are already getting buffed a lot in both damage(both PvP and PvE) and sustain(in PvP) next patch . I don't even know why .
No 2h weapon needs a huge buff like this . Make a viable build and try to figure out how weapons work . Every weapon has advantages . Learn them and make your build work . It is easier than you think . You just need to spend time and effort to your build and test it properly .
I find the fact that 2 Handers being strong weapons to be irrelevant, as well as the fact that they only consume one slot. Not being able to run 3 gear sets while everyone else can, is a glaring balance issue in and of itself. I'm really tired of being pigeonholed/forced into using Dual Wield or 1H/Shield.
Its bad design as a whole, which puts 2 handers at a disadvantage.Edited by austinwalter87ub17_ESO on 9 January 2017 02:13PC and PS4 (bring back character transfers please?)
Templar Extraordinaire2 -
Liofa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »ITEM slots . You are using 1 item . Not 2 . Sets says in their bonus effects like this : ''5 items'' . When you look at a 2-Handed weapon , do you see 2 items ? No . Do you see 1 item ? Yes . That simple . This has nothing to do with MSA weapons since they don't give item set bonuses , they have enchantments . Just , simple , logic .
2-Hander is a powerful weapon in PvP , doesn't need any buffs . Anyone who says 2h needs a buff is probably spamming Brawler .
Bow is the best thing that ever happened to Stam DPS in PvE . Doesn't need any buffs .
Resto is self-explanatory .
Destro users who wants buffs also post videos killing 10-15 (sometimes more) players in 5 seconds . They just want to be more powerful and cry in forums non-stop for buffs to Destro and Light Armor . They are already getting buffed a lot in both damage(both PvP and PvE) and sustain(in PvP) next patch . I don't even know why .
No 2h weapon needs a huge buff like this . Make a viable build and try to figure out how weapons work . Every weapon has advantages . Learn them and make your build work . It is easier than you think . You just need to spend time and effort to your build and test it properly .
I find the fact that 2 Handers being strong weapons to be irrelevant, as well as the fact that they only consume one slot. Not being able to run 3 gear sets while everyone else can, is a glaring balance issue in and of itself. I'm really tired of being pigeonholed/forced into using Dual Wield or 1H/Shield.
Its bad design as a whole, which puts 2 handers at a disadvantage.
From what I understand from this phrase ''I find the fact that 2 Handers being strong weapons to be irrelevant'' , you know that they are strong but still want for buffs . You are not forced into using Dual Wield or 1h/s . You are not at disadvantage because you can't use 3 sets . Advantages of these weapons cover that up , big time . You also can use 3 sets with 2handed weapons . 4 armor + 1 weapon on front bar . 1 weapon back bar + jewelry + 1 armor . Monster set . You even can make the cancer (viper+velidreth+widowmaker) build work with 2handed weapons on both bars . I am having a hard time to understand why you want this change really .0 -
austinwalter87ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »ITEM slots . You are using 1 item . Not 2 . Sets says in their bonus effects like this : ''5 items'' . When you look at a 2-Handed weapon , do you see 2 items ? No . Do you see 1 item ? Yes . That simple . This has nothing to do with MSA weapons since they don't give item set bonuses , they have enchantments . Just , simple , logic .
2-Hander is a powerful weapon in PvP , doesn't need any buffs . Anyone who says 2h needs a buff is probably spamming Brawler .
Bow is the best thing that ever happened to Stam DPS in PvE . Doesn't need any buffs .
Resto is self-explanatory .
Destro users who wants buffs also post videos killing 10-15 (sometimes more) players in 5 seconds . They just want to be more powerful and cry in forums non-stop for buffs to Destro and Light Armor . They are already getting buffed a lot in both damage(both PvP and PvE) and sustain(in PvP) next patch . I don't even know why .
No 2h weapon needs a huge buff like this . Make a viable build and try to figure out how weapons work . Every weapon has advantages . Learn them and make your build work . It is easier than you think . You just need to spend time and effort to your build and test it properly .
I find the fact that 2 Handers being strong weapons to be irrelevant, as well as the fact that they only consume one slot. Not being able to run 3 gear sets while everyone else can, is a glaring balance issue in and of itself. I'm really tired of being pigeonholed/forced into using Dual Wield or 1H/Shield.
Its bad design as a whole, which puts 2 handers at a disadvantage.
From what I understand from this phrase ''I find the fact that 2 Handers being strong weapons to be irrelevant'' , you know that they are strong but still want for buffs . You are not forced into using Dual Wield or 1h/s . You are not at disadvantage because you can't use 3 sets . Advantages of these weapons cover that up , big time . You also can use 3 sets with 2handed weapons . 4 armor + 1 weapon on front bar . 1 weapon back bar + jewelry + 1 armor . Monster set . You even can make the cancer (viper+velidreth+widowmaker) build work with 2handed weapons on both bars . I am having a hard time to understand why you want this change really .
I want this because all builds should be capable of achieving 5/5/2 as a gear set ratio.
I intentionally avoid 2 hander builds due to the fact I cannot.Edited by austinwalter87ub17_ESO on 9 January 2017 02:39PC and PS4 (bring back character transfers please?)
Templar Extraordinaire3 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭They should not count as two slots.
However, there should come with a secondary item. 2H - comes with sword/mace/axe knot, staff comes with Fire/Ice/Resto/Lightning focus.
It's the same reason why NO ONE uses the Maelstrom 1 hander/shields. You lose out too much.Edited by usmcjdking on 9 January 2017 02:490331
06021 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »ITEM slots . You are using 1 item . Not 2 . Sets says in their bonus effects like this : ''5 items'' . When you look at a 2-Handed weapon , do you see 2 items ? No . Do you see 1 item ? Yes . That simple . This has nothing to do with MSA weapons since they don't give item set bonuses , they have enchantments . Just , simple , logic .
2-Hander is a powerful weapon in PvP , doesn't need any buffs . Anyone who says 2h needs a buff is probably spamming Brawler .
Bow is the best thing that ever happened to Stam DPS in PvE . Doesn't need any buffs .
Resto is self-explanatory .
Destro users who wants buffs also post videos killing 10-15 (sometimes more) players in 5 seconds . They just want to be more powerful and cry in forums non-stop for buffs to Destro and Light Armor . They are already getting buffed a lot in both damage(both PvP and PvE) and sustain(in PvP) next patch . I don't even know why .
No 2h weapon needs a huge buff like this . Make a viable build and try to figure out how weapons work . Every weapon has advantages . Learn them and make your build work . It is easier than you think . You just need to spend time and effort to your build and test it properly .
I find the fact that 2 Handers being strong weapons to be irrelevant, as well as the fact that they only consume one slot. Not being able to run 3 gear sets while everyone else can, is a glaring balance issue in and of itself. I'm really tired of being pigeonholed/forced into using Dual Wield or 1H/Shield.
Its bad design as a whole, which puts 2 handers at a disadvantage.
From what I understand from this phrase ''I find the fact that 2 Handers being strong weapons to be irrelevant'' , you know that they are strong but still want for buffs . You are not forced into using Dual Wield or 1h/s . You are not at disadvantage because you can't use 3 sets . Advantages of these weapons cover that up , big time . You also can use 3 sets with 2handed weapons . 4 armor + 1 weapon on front bar . 1 weapon back bar + jewelry + 1 armor . Monster set . You even can make the cancer (viper+velidreth+widowmaker) build work with 2handed weapons on both bars . I am having a hard time to understand why you want this change really .
Your huge lack of understanding is no argument tho. There is no covering of advantages. One weapon skill line has better PVP oriented skills, second has better PVE skills. The best DW skill is main bar only, while the best 2H skill is easily avaiable from offbar.0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭First off all it should never count as two pieces, there should be a second piece added if it is ever to be done. This is the easiest way to fit into the current upgrade system.
The justifications for 2H, Staves, and Bows only counting as one pieces is utility. For 2H and Bow it's utility from the skills. For Staves it's utility from being a Magicka weapon and Magicka having more, particularly skills, than Stamina.
If you want to some of that utility to be removed, I could get on board with a second piece being added to those weapons. However frankly most people don't actually want that in my experience. They simply want another set miss without having to spend more resources to max it out.0 -
Stamden✭✭✭✭✭
✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »ITEM slots . You are using 1 item . Not 2 . Sets says in their bonus effects like this : ''5 items'' . When you look at a 2-Handed weapon , do you see 2 items ? No . Do you see 1 item ? Yes . That simple . This has nothing to do with MSA weapons since they don't give item set bonuses , they have enchantments . Just , simple , logic .
2-Hander is a powerful weapon in PvP , doesn't need any buffs . Anyone who says 2h needs a buff is probably spamming Brawler .
Bow is the best thing that ever happened to Stam DPS in PvE . Doesn't need any buffs .
Resto is self-explanatory .
Destro users who wants buffs also post videos killing 10-15 (sometimes more) players in 5 seconds . They just want to be more powerful and cry in forums non-stop for buffs to Destro and Light Armor . They are already getting buffed a lot in both damage(both PvP and PvE) and sustain(in PvP) next patch . I don't even know why .
No 2h weapon needs a huge buff like this . Make a viable build and try to figure out how weapons work . Every weapon has advantages . Learn them and make your build work . It is easier than you think . You just need to spend time and effort to your build and test it properly .
I find the fact that 2 Handers being strong weapons to be irrelevant, as well as the fact that they only consume one slot. Not being able to run 3 gear sets while everyone else can, is a glaring balance issue in and of itself. I'm really tired of being pigeonholed/forced into using Dual Wield or 1H/Shield.
Its bad design as a whole, which puts 2 handers at a disadvantage.
From what I understand from this phrase ''I find the fact that 2 Handers being strong weapons to be irrelevant'' , you know that they are strong but still want for buffs . You are not forced into using Dual Wield or 1h/s . You are not at disadvantage because you can't use 3 sets . Advantages of these weapons cover that up , big time . You also can use 3 sets with 2handed weapons . 4 armor + 1 weapon on front bar . 1 weapon back bar + jewelry + 1 armor . Monster set . You even can make the cancer (viper+velidreth+widowmaker) build work with 2handed weapons on both bars . I am having a hard time to understand why you want this change really .
In PvE? 2 Handers are absolute garbage. Even with 2 peice bonuses, 2H are still going to be underwelming in PvE.
Hell, even in PvP, the only reason they see use it because Rally is a backbar requirement on stam builds.
Also, stop thinking in such a PvP-centric way. The game balance is prioritized for PvE.PC NA
~Currently taking a break from the game until my DK can become something more than just a crafter~1 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »If someone disagrees with adding 2 piece bonuses for 2h weapons, it is because they are using VMA weapons and need to have an advantage over everybody else to feel special.
There is no logic to not have a 2 piece bonus on 2h'ers.
Oh boy.
The logic is: it's one piece. Because 1 != 2, 1 piece does not count as 2 pieces for the purpose of set bonuses.
Flawless logic.
But, honestly, why does it matter? It's a superficial issue. You run 2H weapons if there is sufficient incentive to do so, regardless of how many set bonuses you get out of it. Stam DPS use 2H weapons in PvP because you get Major Brutality, a self-heal, a gap-closer, an execute and a cleave, and more appropriate passives (e.g., stam recovery) ... DW users do not get a heal, a gap closer, an execute, stam recovery, or a cleave (aside from the Rend ult). Mag DPS use staves (and will be even more incentivized to do so in the coming patch with the damage boost) because of the excellent abilities, ultimates, and passives. Sure, you can squeeze a bit more DPS out by running DW (due to the damage bonus from the Twin Blade & Blunt passive and the extra set piece), but that small difference just got a lot smaller.
So, sure, we can make 2H weapons count as 2 pieces but that's going to require significant changes and balancing of the active and passive abilities in each weapon tree.
Unfortunately the changes to staves will not be enough to deter people from rocking Dual Wield or 1H/Shield for the additional damage. The loss of the 3rd gear set is more substantial than the benefits granted by using a 2 Hander.
there are lots of ways to get 3 sets working with staves and 2h... clever alch builds are one way that is easily craftable and quite useful.
All youb have to do is use one set with a long running or cooldown "5pc bonus" and swap off it when it triggers. there are lotsa of those. They suit 2h type builds better than other "constant effect" so this means often 2h/bow/staff builds will be slightly different using just one set for this purpose.
With clever alch in particular, you just need to swap back once every 45s.
i am trying a witchmans build where i will have the main ult i use on the witchman bar, only swap over "for set" when i get ready to fire the ulti. Rest of the time that 5th is useless so stay on the other bar - except when i drop there for buffs and such.
basically this massive screw job of not getting three sets is basically limited to a very narrow set of circumstances:
First - not using any VMSA or Master weapons since they already handle it separately. one items vs two items have equal capabilities here.
Second - not using any of these cooldown type sets like alchemist, lich witchmans, or heck even NMG or the various 10-15s cooldown runtimes.
So, its really a "problem" if and only if the player chooses to want to use the same sets DW makes use of and ignore the other options.
And btw my few dw mag characters will be revisiting their decisions once Homestead comes out. As it stands right now most would work ongetting their wood on.Edited by STEVIL on 9 January 2017 05:39Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
agegarton✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Much as I'd like for my sorc to have his staff count as two items, I'm not sure it's entirely necessary. I've always thought that a good fix to this problem was fewer sets with a 5 item bonus, and more good 3 item - and maybe 4 and 6 item - set bonuses. That would shake things up a bit.0 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »It's the same reason why NO ONE uses the Maelstrom 1 hander/shields. You lose out too much.
Gotta disagree with that. Stam DPS are willing to skip the absolutely awesome VO 4/5 piece bonuses because the Cruel Flurry enchant is worth it. If the Maelstrom sword/mace had a good enough enchantment, tanks would find a way to make it work.0 -
VarilRau✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »It's the same reason why NO ONE uses the Maelstrom 1 hander/shields. You lose out too much.
Gotta disagree with that. Stam DPS are willing to skip the absolutely awesome VO 4/5 piece bonuses because the Cruel Flurry enchant is worth it. If the Maelstrom sword/mace had a good enough enchantment, tanks would find a way to make it work.
I just wish that they would have it so that vMA would drop enchants instead of the actual weapons. Getting the enchant would be so much easier RNG than trying to get it in the weapon/trait you want. Heck, you might just need 20 clears instead of the current 100...
Plus you could just put that enchant to a set weapon you like instead of losing another set bonus thanks to this.Varil Rau, Mag sorcerer
Viiltoveikko, Stam sorcerer
Meadshield, nord dragonknight
DC EU0 -
Anhedonie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭twohanded weapon gives:
-Less weapon/spell damage
-Only 1 set bonus
-1 enchant
two onehanded weapons give:
-More weapon\spell damage
-2 set bonuses
-2 enchants
Seems that at least something should be done.
Edited by Anhedonie on 9 January 2017 11:37Profanity filter is a crime against the freedom of speech. Also gags.0 -
delarb14_ESO✭✭I would like to try a ice staff tank warden but having 2nd handed staves count as only 1 item for item sets makes this not practical. I would like to see 2hd weapons count as two items for set count purposes.0
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SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
See my other 500 posts on the subject for more details ...delarb14_ESO wrote: »I would like to try a ice staff tank warden but having 2nd handed staves count as only 1 item for item sets makes this not practical. I would like to see 2hd weapons count as two items for set count purposes.
In short: NO
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