Magicka Melee Spells Nightblade

TheBonesXXX · April 2017

Metemsycosis wrote: »

I think concealed weapon spam is a waste but if used when fully buffed against stunned opponents the damage is pretty high. I like combining with at least two dots, rely on funnel health for spammable dps/hps,and switch to concealed weapon only when meteors are falling from the sky. Block cast the impale at the finish.

Problem is that conceal weapon could open up a lot of slots be because the stun mechanic, but cloak in its current form is sub par, which its detrimental to conceal combo.

Cloak needs to be separate from stealth. Conceal needs a mechanic that does out of stealth pressure.

Impale needs the execute threshold tweaked.

Soul Harvest needs a range increase.

I want speed and precision to be apart of the mNB arsenal. Not brute force.

Neloth · April 2017

Hey, guys. Is it possible to run something like that:

Dw: concealed, sap, lotus fan, cloak, impale/fear, soul harvest

Resto: cripple, harness, healing, assassin will, funnel health/fear, soul thether

So opining the fight you go cloak -> lotus fan -> concealed (stun), switch to back bar;
cripple -> LA -> harness -> shield stack and LA -> merc resolve -> swap -> lotus fan -> fear ->soul harvest -> impale.

I don't know if it work will, but maybe this burst is easier to set, compared to soul harvest + assassin will on range magblade without gap closer?

That's what I don't know:

1) fear front or back bar? stun form concealed is supposed to work, but we all know everything counters it. But fear back bar frees some space for impale.

2) which sets to run? Maybe the best is 3 willpower + 5 Lich + 5 kag's hope, but it requires sharpened Lich resto, and it's painful to farm. Maybe 2 grothgar + 5 pieces dmg set + 5 pieces sustain set will work? like seducer for sustain, spinner for dmg? What's your thoughts?

TheBonesXXX · April 2017

Neloth wrote: »

Hey, guys. Is it possible to run something like that:

Dw: concealed, sap, lotus fan, cloak, impale/fear, soul harvest

Resto: cripple, harness, healing, assassin will, funnel health/fear, soul thether

So opining the fight you go cloak -> lotus fan -> concealed (stun), switch to back bar;
cripple -> LA -> harness -> shield stack and LA -> merc resolve -> swap -> lotus fan -> fear ->soul harvest -> impale.

I don't know if it work will, but maybe this burst is easier to set, compared to soul harvest + assassin will on range magblade without gap closer?

That's what I don't know:

1) fear front or back bar? stun form concealed is supposed to work, but we all know everything counters it. But fear back bar frees some space for impale.

2) which sets to run? Maybe the best is 3 willpower + 5 Lich + 5 kag's hope, but it requires sharpened Lich resto, and it's painful to farm. Maybe 2 grothgar + 5 pieces dmg set + 5 pieces sustain set will work? like seducer for sustain, spinner for dmg? What's your thoughts?

Im running alchemist and lich. Scathing Mage may work too. Scathing Mage + Amberplasm maybe be alright.

TheBonesXXX · April 2017

I just want to hash what my intentions are in this thread.

1) I want to maintain mNB as the highest skill ceiling in the game, bar none.

2) I want mNB to competitive, but still require the hands of someone who does not possess the typical smashmouth mentality and treatment the other classes have received for melee, rush and bash or rush and cut is NOT something I want near the Nightblade class.

Nightblades, lore wise are supposed to be of ruthless cunning and of the shadows, swift, precise, and can tear you apart with surgical precision; I want to maintain that.

3) I do not want any buffs or tweaks to the class to bring us a ton of upfront damage (magicka) but rather allow us to act swiftly, surgically, maniacally, a thinkers class; I am more than happy to keep stamina apart of the upfront gank rotation.

4) I've already listed out the skills and what the problems are, that they are wildly ineffective with all the counter play that shuts magicka melee for NB down.

Here are some more proposed class changes, that relate to the type of dots we get as Nightblades.

Lets say Lotus fan does 5k initial damage then a 9k dot, I want to combine the increments so it does 3 x 3k damage ticks swiftly and back to back, so it acts more like a heavy bleed than a dot.

This style of dot could work for the class as a whole.

The application of damage in ESO is huge and means a lot, it is way to easy to purge or outheal dots in this game, it has been that way with siege, DK dots, and any other damage over time ability, Nightblade are no different in the disadvantages we have with a lot of our magicka morphs.

I want to introduce a thought that I have not seen on the forums, we are Assassin mages, increase our melee range on Conceal and Soul Harvest, currently dual wielding only boosts our magicka damage, our light attacks are next to worthless.

Again, I will bring this up, give Conceal the two prong treatment to where it has a different function outside stealth that can actually do something significant; high risk and high reward.

Staggered damage can be the mainstay of the Magicka Nightblade with an increased range on our melee attacks; there are already Scythe like weapons in the game that would allow this for the transition.

Between Lotus fan and a Conceal with staggered damage, increased melee range so we are outside normal melee range to include soul harvest.. and letting cloak purge again.. We'd be golden.

WacArnold · April 2017

Does anybody know if pelinals aptitude would help your light attacks for melee magblade

TheBonesXXX · April 2017

WacArnold wrote: »

Does anybody know if pelinals aptitude would help your light attacks for melee magblade

You would be speccing into physical. damage, Pelinals equalizes your damage across the board.

bubbygink · April 2017

WacArnold wrote: »

Does anybody know if pelinals aptitude would help your light attacks for melee magblade

I actually tried this out. Light attacks scale like 40:1 stam : wep dmg instead of the normal 10:1 so since they rely almost exclusively on weapon damage you can still get pretty good weaves with high wep dmg but low (17,000ish) stam. I used 5 pelinals, 3 arcane agility with wep damage enchants, 4 Seducer. This way my weapon and spell damage were both decently high. Notably, sap essence gives major sorcery and brutality (what you really need since you are stacking weapon damage) so in synergizes well with this setup. I will say that it actually worked OK but I still didn't think it was fully viable. Maybe with a little more fine tuning an practice it could work though. Certainly makes your light attack weaving much more appealing as your light attacks will do substantially more damage.

It may be worth trying something like 5 Pelinals (with duel wield swords), 5 clever (with 5th piece being resto) and 3 arcane agility jewelry. Would be tough to sustain, you could use atro mundus and witchmothers plus siphoning attacks possibly. I may have to try this out.

Vizier · April 2017

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Wet Noodles, Wet Noodles everywhere.

Conceal Weapon - Speed Boost, cool. It's stun from stealth mechanic, awesome. But it's lack luster as a regular attack as it requires Crit Cloak + Lotus Fan (which hits like a wet noodle) + Conceal to pull off a dps combo is absolutely crap.

Lotus Fan - used to be really damn useful with its snare, now with everyone rockin' immovables, shuffles, heals, its dot damage is completely poop.

Cloak - It's not cloak that's garbage, its the fact that every class in the game has heeps of stealth counter play which do not allow the from stealth combos as a magicka-melee nightblade to connect, a lot of the abilities classes have these days completely negate the what a magicka-melee nightblade needs in order to use in their tool kit.

I'm not going to say nerf the counter play, I am going to ask that perhaps the passives which give stam-melee bonuses perhaps give magicka damage bonuses too - I don't expect to have stamina like melee dps, but I want to be able to make the range-melee melee-range transition a bit smoother so the playstyle works fluently.

What I am getting at is that the damage is wildly ineffective because it requires a from stealth attack in order to be proficient, considering that magicka-melee builds have to rely on the magicka damage coefficient in order to be successful, considering there is no magicka-melee weapon in the game currently.

So - passive updates that include magicka, with a tweak in conceal and lotus fan damage, should passives get a magicka-melee treatment I think Soul Harvest would still work marvelously.

You Forgot to mention the add-ons that completely negate attacking from stealth by warning the player what it about to happen to them.

TheBonesXXX · April 2017

Vizier wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Wet Noodles, Wet Noodles everywhere.

Conceal Weapon - Speed Boost, cool. It's stun from stealth mechanic, awesome. But it's lack luster as a regular attack as it requires Crit Cloak + Lotus Fan (which hits like a wet noodle) + Conceal to pull off a dps combo is absolutely crap.

Lotus Fan - used to be really damn useful with its snare, now with everyone rockin' immovables, shuffles, heals, its dot damage is completely poop.

Cloak - It's not cloak that's garbage, its the fact that every class in the game has heeps of stealth counter play which do not allow the from stealth combos as a magicka-melee nightblade to connect, a lot of the abilities classes have these days completely negate the what a magicka-melee nightblade needs in order to use in their tool kit.

I'm not going to say nerf the counter play, I am going to ask that perhaps the passives which give stam-melee bonuses perhaps give magicka damage bonuses too - I don't expect to have stamina like melee dps, but I want to be able to make the range-melee melee-range transition a bit smoother so the playstyle works fluently.

What I am getting at is that the damage is wildly ineffective because it requires a from stealth attack in order to be proficient, considering that magicka-melee builds have to rely on the magicka damage coefficient in order to be successful, considering there is no magicka-melee weapon in the game currently.

So - passive updates that include magicka, with a tweak in conceal and lotus fan damage, should passives get a magicka-melee treatment I think Soul Harvest would still work marvelously.

You Forgot to mention the add-ons that completely negate attacking from stealth by warning the player what it about to happen to them.

If we reminded the Devs of all their blunderous escipades then I wouldnt be able to vent my displeasure on how fool hardy theyve been with their decisions.

Especially when the havent learned to build around base mechanics of the game instead of all the statsluts who stink up the forums.

LegacyDM · April 2017

Bazeric wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Why is all about the burst? Which magicka nb doesn't have.

No exactly, the "potential" burst is huge, the reality of

Waffennacht wrote: »

Bazeric wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Why is all about the burst? Which magicka nb doesn't have.

No exactly, the "potential" burst is huge, the reality of

Nailed it on the head, theoretically the burst is there.

Potential is one thing verse reality. You both elegantly pointed out that it's near impossible to pull of the burst potential based on current game mechanics. I stand by my statement. In reality we don't have burst. we get two skills that hardly work well. MR and concealed. Theoretically, you are right, the potential is there. Yet, too many mechanics prevent us from achieving said burst. So let's agree on reality and not entertain the theoretical.

If you look at the siphoning tree of magicka NB and include lotus fan this playstyle heavily relies on dots. Dots should be a viable alternative to burst. Instead, dots can't crit shields, can be purged, can be easily out healed, and the initial cast can be dodged. What's the point? Our real only burst skills are concel weapon and merciless resolve. MR on a melee magicka NB is not practical. You always need to be in melee range long enough to get 4 la off. That's not the playstyle of a magicka melee NB. Get in get out quickly or else get crushed for being so squishy in light armor. as you pointed out concealed weapon is dodgeable and is not practical to spam to get someone down. So that leaves us with other supplemental dots that don't synergize well.

I wish Zos would give some attention to magicka melee NB.

LegacyDM · April 2017

Metemsycosis wrote: »

I think concealed weapon spam is a waste but if used when fully buffed against stunned opponents the damage is pretty high. I like combining with at least two dots, rely on funnel health for spammable dps/hps,and switch to concealed weapon only when meteors are falling from the sky. Block cast the impale at the finish.

That's nice but people just break free when stunned, dodge roll, and heal up. We don't have the burst and the dots are too lackluster to output any real pressure. Impale is also easily dodgeable. The rotation you outlined works against the non cp campaign noob, but against veterans it's not enough to finish the job or even come close.

TheBonesXXX · April 2017

LegacyDM wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

I think concealed weapon spam is a waste but if used when fully buffed against stunned opponents the damage is pretty high. I like combining with at least two dots, rely on funnel health for spammable dps/hps,and switch to concealed weapon only when meteors are falling from the sky. Block cast the impale at the finish.

That's nice but people just break free when stunned, dodge roll, and heal up. We don't have the burst and the dots are too lackluster to output any real pressure. Impale is also easily dodgeable. The rotation you outlined works against the non cp campaign noob, but against veterans it's not enough to finish the job or even come close.

I'll take this further, any vet worth their salt will scrape a mageblade before we even finish rotation.

Mageblade has to cloak.. to much because our current mechanics are just wildly ineffective.

devilsTear · April 2017

Hey guys I'm a magblade noob and I have some questions about a non meta? Melee magblade setup I was pondering..
Dw and s&b
5p Torug's Pact
5p elegance
Monster set undecided

The idea is using elegance and to put gold shock and fire enchants on dw weapons so my light and heavy attacks hit harder and weaving might actually deal some damage. Can this work or am I just dreaming before I spend my last mats on this idea Haha

arkansas_ESO · April 2017

devilsTear wrote: »

Hey guys I'm a magblade noob and I have some questions about a non meta? Melee magblade setup I was pondering..
Dw and s&b
5p Torug's Pact
5p elegance
Monster set undecided

The idea is using elegance and to put gold shock and fire enchants on dw weapons so my light and heavy attacks hit harder and weaving might actually deal some damage. Can this work or am I just dreaming before I spend my last mats on this idea Haha

You're on the right track with Torug's--the best melee magblade build I've seen since Dark Brotherhood has been 5pc Torug's, 5pc Amberplasm, 2pc Troll King, DW/resto or DW/destro.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAU8S8Z2X7w

Metemsycosis · April 2017

LegacyDM wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

I think concealed weapon spam is a waste but if used when fully buffed against stunned opponents the damage is pretty high. I like combining with at least two dots, rely on funnel health for spammable dps/hps,and switch to concealed weapon only when meteors are falling from the sky. Block cast the impale at the finish.

That's nice but people just break free when stunned, dodge roll, and heal up. We don't have the burst and the dots are too lackluster to output any real pressure. Impale is also easily dodgeable. The rotation you outlined works against the non cp campaign noob, but against veterans it's not enough to finish the job or even come close.

You're dismissing one of the easiest ways of getting off a burst - during the opponents cc? Are you lagging that badly you can't land an attack at that time? The best concealed weapon combo always involves soul harvest or meteor because of the built-in empower of those ultimates. You cast meteor gap close FEAR (or better yet cloak concealed if you know they won't block). The combination is tried, true, and frankly basic.

Anyway I agree concealed weapon is underwhelming as your main spam, but in some situations (which are more common in vet zones than you might think and perhaps correspond more to the skills intended use) - it still hits really hard.