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Simple solution to the Major Mending's issue and Templar's Healing
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ScooberSteve✭✭✭✭I think people are missing the point that all templars can do well is heal everything else is average. Whats the point in playing a clasd thats average at everything?3 -
Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭While in your circle you gain major, outside you gain minor, one or the other, never both
Caius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA2 -
Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Classes can function outside of their skill lines primarily, sometimes entirely. I have a summoner skill line on my stam sorc - I dont use it for anything.
Wait you don't put points into power stone?Caius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA2 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.
Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp
You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.
BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.
p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.
@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.
Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.
Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp
You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.
BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.
p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.
@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.
Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.
Everytime someone disagrees with you, you label them a troll and tell them they're QQing. What's constructive about that?
Wait where did I call that guy a troll? Please show me.
Someone who actually reads the thread will know that your statement is false and on another level of misleading.
Other people and I are having a constructive discussion in this thread, half of the people in this thread disagree with me. Then suddenly a guy came in, started QQing, he had no interest in discussing the matter in a constructive way, he didn't explain their oppinion, didn't make any argument. The only thing he was able to say is "It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about." I
It's not my fault if someone cannot explain their opinions, provide constructive arguments, and all they can do is saying things like "It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about." and "I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about". That's not disagreeing, they do not provide any points, any arguments, nothing I can do about that. They are the ones who don't know what they are talking about.
Oh, on the topic of "discussion", we were having a discussion as well, you wish to continue or you want to start QQing as well?
Here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017912/#Comment_4017912
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017939/#Comment_4017939
I take silence as you agree with my points.hmsdragonfly wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.
Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp
You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.
BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.
p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.
@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.
Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.
Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp
You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.
BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.
p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.
@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.
Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.
Everytime someone disagrees with you, you label them a troll and tell them they're QQing. What's constructive about that?
Wait where did I call that guy a troll? Please show me.
Someone who actually reads the thread will know that your statement is false and on another level of misleading.
Other people and I are having a constructive discussion in this thread, half of the people in this thread disagree with me. Then suddenly a guy came in, started QQing, he had no interest in discussing the matter in a constructive way, he didn't explain their oppinion, didn't make any argument. The only thing he was able to say is "It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about." I
It's not my fault if someone cannot explain their opinions, provide constructive arguments, and all they can do is saying things like "It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about." and "I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about". That's not disagreeing, they do not provide any points, any arguments, nothing I can do about that. They are the ones who don't know what they are talking about.
Oh, on the topic of "discussion", we were having a discussion as well, you wish to continue or you want to start QQing as well?
Here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017912/#Comment_4017912
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017939/#Comment_4017939
I take silence as you agree with my points.
[snip] I could list out the reasons for why you're wrong, but it will be no different than the responses I've given to the other trolls over the past 4 months. You'll still continue to spew ignorance. See below if you need insight as to why I have no desire to engage.
[snip]
[Edit to remove bait.
Oh wait, you have already lost your argument.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017912/#Comment_4017912
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017939/#Comment_4017939
What argument? I was having a discussion with someone else. Here's some of my many thoughts on the Templar class. Most will be magic based as it is my main. I have a stamplar, but unlike many in the forums I will refrain from commenting on topics that I am not well versed. I apologize ahead of time as I am typing this out on my phone and there will likely be some grammatical errors.
1. Templars have the worst passives of all the classes. You could argue DK is worse now to the massive battle roar and helping hands nerf. Templars best passive was major mending. Prior to major mending being implemented, Templars had a straight 30% bonus to healing in our passives. Templars also had a passive a long time ago that restored a certain percentage of max magicka every time we used a skill. All of these passives have now been nerfed/removed.
2. Templars are forced to slot multiple skills to gain what other classes already have as passives (repentance gives 10% boost to recovery).
3. Templars have an entire skill line dedicated to healing/support that has been gutted by the current patch notes.
4. Templars don't have a reliable cc. Blinding flashes was removed. Blazing spear doesn't stun anymore. Luminous shards is a disorient which is terrible for a class relying on dots to buff (entropy/reflective light)
5. Templars don't have access to major sorcery or major savagery through class skills or passives.
6. Templars best defensive skill, extended ritual, recieved a huge cost increase when purifying ritual was changed to ritual of retribution. Extended ritual was then given purifying's removal if 5 negative effects after Templars flooded the forums with rage.
7. Templar ultimates are terrible. Rememberance is ok in PvP, nova has it's uses in PVE, and crescent sweep is alright for stamplars. The problem with all of these ultis is that they are second rate ultis compared to those that other classes/skill lines have.
8. Our dps spammable, puncturing sweeps, used to provide a significant hot. That hot has been nerfed multiple times (can't double crit + affected by battle spirit) and is now being hit again with nerf to major mending.
9. Healing ritual is terrible. No one uses it. It's designed to be our AOE heal but the cast time makes it horrible.
10. Dark flare is our hardest hitting ability. It has a cast time and a ridiculous travel time. It's early dodgeable and interruptible. It's suicide to use against anyone that know what he or she is doing.
11. Solar barrage might be the most worthless skill in the game. Hell, most people don't even know what it is.
12. Radiant destruction has been nerfed multiple times making radiant glory absolutely useless.
13. Our class shield scales off of max health. It's worthless to anyone other than a full max health build.
14. Toppling charge has been broken for years. It rarely works, it's dodgeable, and at least 25% of the time the casting templar becomes stuck in the animation.
I know there's plenty that I've missed, but that's the best I can do while at work. Feel free to dissect these points.
@utb99 @Joy_Division are 2 of the most knowledgeable Templars that I know. They have essentially stopped posting because our opinions clearly are worth little to ZOS. Maybe this post will entice them to participate in this thread.
cc: @Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno
Although I disagree with some of your points, I don't disagree with many of them, but those are completely off-topic. It's better if you make another thread regarding these issues, as for the range of this thread, if I understand correctly, you were trying to say that Templar should be the only healer class, other classes shouldn't have access to group resource support, meaning other classes shouldn't have a chance to compete with Templar for a healer spot in a raid. Correct me if that was not what you were trying to say. That's where we disagree, and this is what I said:hmsdragonfly wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »
This isnt an issue that needs to be solved. There shouldnt be a defined single healer. There should be classes with strengths for each category. When you have one class outshining the others and being #1 at it.. theres no point in the others for that role. Should sorcs be the only DPS on raids because they have 'strong magical damage' and dragonknights should only be there 'to tank'? And nightblades can go away somewhere else?
The idea is to have every class be able to compete in roles. Nothing could compete with templar.
If that's the case, then ZOS probably shouldn't have given templars (and now wardens) an entire skill line dedicated to support and healing.
Don't forget that ZOS gives Templar 2 skill lines dedicated to DPS. The support skill line can also be utilized for tanking. Templar aren't designed to heal only, they are designed to tank, DPS and heal, so why take the chance of other classes to compete with Templar for a slot in healing? They give Templar a chance (also to Sorc and Nightblade) to compete with DK in tanking, they give Templar a chance to compete with Sorc, Nightblade, and DK in DPS.
I get it if the only thing Templar can do is heal, but that's not the case here. Templar's DPS is great, they were Meta last patch, this patch they are way above Nightblade and not far behind Sorc. Ironically enough, a class that people say it is designed for tanking, DK, can pull more single target than Sorc. In PvP, a good Magplar wins every single 1v1 duel. Templar's tanking capability is not bad, while they are not the best tank in vet trials, they at least have a chance to compete with DK for the main tank slot, we have seen so many Templar tanks who successfully tanked vet Trials, even vMoL HM. In PvP, Templar is arguably the best tank. They can tank zergs just as well as DK and they can heal their allies a lot in the process.
So, I don't see why we shouldn't give a chance for other classes to compete with Templar for a healing spot.
As for the topic of Major Mending, it is the exact thing i am trying to do here: I want to give you back your Major mending or if that cannot be done, then take it away from Warden.
I don't think Templars should be the only healing class, but they should be the best support class due to the array of resource buffs Templars give to a group. Many of the abilities that Templars have are group support skills. Other classes have more damage dealing skills, skills that give mobility, and skills that provide self recovery/utility in place of these group support skills. If ZOS wants to nerf those skills into oblivion, then thats their call. I would rather ZOS replace those skills with useable cc's and a source of mobility than give us a poor man's version of what we've had in the past. I hate homogenization in mmo's, but that appears to be the oath that ZOS has chosen. Other classes now have access to resource buffs outside their class skills which is completely fine. Those skills shouldn't be nearly identical to the templar specific skills.
ZOS clearly thinks the templar provides too much group support, while they're releasing a class that arguably provides more group buffs and nearly as much healing.
As for major mending, I agree on both counts.
They will still the best healer class, it's just that now other classes have a chance to compete with them, before it was "You go Templar healer or you go home", now, good Nightblade can take the job of a Templar healer if the Templar is bad.
The game has developed to the point that right now, the job of a healer is to 1) heal 2) feed resources to your group, if a healer cannot do both of those, no one will allow that healer to join the raid. Non-Templar healers have been desperately trying to find a way to give back resources (especially stamina) to the group: using master restro, using the Fighters Guild's rune, yet they are nowhere near the effectiveness of Templar's resources feeding. That means, they don't have even a slight chance to compete with Templar healers for a spot in a raid.
Clearly it wasn't intended at first, if I am not mistaken, there used to be a "damage dealing healer meta" where healers deal as much damage as possible, but the game has changed itself, right now, if you cannot feed resources to the group you are not allowed to be a raid healer. I think ZoS want to embrace that kind of group synergy gameplay, and they also want non-Templar healers to be able to do vet trials, that's why they decide to give them the ability to feed resources to the group.Joy_Division wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »This is super simple: giving the restro skill line a Major Mending buff that actually lasts for about 30 seconds.
1) It will be buff to Templar's heal: They will have access to Major Mending + Minor Mending + Minor Sorcery and AOE Minor Magickasteal.
2) Other classes have a chance to compete with Templar's heal if they wear Healer's Habit.
3) Unkillable trollplar spamming BoL will be forced to equip a restro and do restro heavy attack, thus reducing their effectiveness.
That's it. Simple.
I don't think it's that simple.
First of all, ZoS has made it quite clear they don;t want this to last that long and nowhere close to it.
Secondly, I still see this as a net nerf because 1) now everybody can have super-long access to something that was exclusively mine (I would rather eat broken glass than duel a NB that had access to major mending...I've done it before, give me the glass) 2) the restoration staff is a terrible weapon I have zero interest using, let alone relying on, when being zerged down by Saramis's gang in cyrodiil.
Thirdly, the whole "unkillable tollplar spamming BOL" leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. I am sick and tired of hypocritical whiners somehow labeling how the class I main is destructive, ruining the game, or the reason for misery is Cyrodiil PvP's. What a bunch of crap. Ever see one of Kodi's video's of his stam sorcerer: the amount of self heals per tick that puts out is absolutely disgusting and ZoS has the nerve - the nerve - to take away my major mending? It's a joke...brought upon by misleading crap that people whose only agenda is to promote the success or their class and their play-style and nothing else.
I agree, if they don't want Major mending lasts long, then make sure Warden's MM uptime is lower than DK's MM uptime. Either they give MM to everyone, or take that away all together. Leaving high MM uptime for a single class, whether it's Templar or Warden, is not good for the game.
Trollplar = Magplar in Troll King and Reactive (Troll King + Magplar -> Trollplar), I don't mean Magplars are Trolls, sorry if that confuses you.
I'm not confused. It isn't DKs, sorcs, or NBs that are spamming BoL no?
Not every Magplar is a Trollplar. But the fact that a Magplar can become a Trollplar is a problem we need to address.Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on 21 April 2017 02:04Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Light Weaver Passive:
Increases the duration of Restoring Aura by 20%
Healing Ritual grants 2 Ultimate to allies under 60% Health
Channeling Right of Passage grants 16500 bonus to your Amor.
Sacred Ground Passive:
While standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage areas of effect and for up to 4 seconds after leaving them you gain Major Mending, increasing your healing done by 25%.
Enemies standing in your Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus or Rite of Passage areas of effect have their Movement Speed reduced by 30%.
Here is what I propose
Light Weaver:
Increases the duration of Restoring Aura by 20%
Healing Ritual grants 2 Ultimate to allies under 60% Health
Channeling Right of Passage grants 16500 bonus to your Amor.
Rune Focus grants Major Mending while standing in its radius and for 2 seconds after leaving its vicinity
Sacred Ground:
Enemies standing in your Cleansing Ritual area of effect have their Movement Speed reduced by 30%.
Logic:
DKs get MM while their Puny Shield is up and ZoS is happy with this. This means DKs have a small window to get a burst heal off (Dragon's Blood, Rally), but HoTs would be affected without it (Vigor, Mutagen).
So If we restrict MM to apply only to Rune Focus, while inside we have a similar situation. While standing in its puny radius, Templars will have a small window to get a burst heal off (BoL, Rally), but HoTs would be affected outside it after 2 seconds(Vigor, Sweeps).
Personally I feel this fits in with the "Templar House" Theme
Minor Mending could be kept and applied while standing in Cleansing Ritual, but that's overkill imo. Rune Focus should be enhanced to Major Mending. This would require more strategic gameplay seeing as ESO is very mobile oriented. BoL spammers would be less effective and would have to stay put (Death Sentence) or they would have to constantly cast Rune as they move (Less BoLs being cast ) This also nerfs the Magplars who Mist Form, Block Cast BoL then mist and never die.
Stamplars don't have infinite Magicka so I propose we reduce the cost of Restoring Focus by 15%. Not as Cheap as Channeled but will allow Stamplars more casts and let them keep up MM more often.
The Main issue people have with Templars is BoL so why doesn't ZoS address that skill directly? This keeps Stamplars out of it and leaves Puncturing Sweeps out of it as well. Beating around the bush with MM was a bad call. Give it a 10% Nerf to start and adjust accordingly. Do Something!
I tried to be as realistic as possible. Ideally Templars would get all changes reverted and get Blazing Spear changed or Luminous Shards fixed but ZoS is stubborn.
That sounds good, but if it is the case, Templar has easy access to a long major mending uptime, how can nightblade and sorc healers compete with that? And if ZoS give nightblade and sorc major mending, people will revolt because they will be extremely OP in PvP.
So, the main issue isn't solved, non-Templar healers still cannot compete with Templar healers.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭ScooberSteve wrote: »I think people are missing the point that all templars can do well is heal everything else is average. Whats the point in playing a clasd thats average at everything?
I think you are also missing the point. Sorc, nightblade, DK aren't even average in healing compared to Templar, they are pathetic in healing. If you want to keep Templar the only viable healer class, then make sure their DPS and tanking capability are as pathetic as a nightblade's capability to be the main healer in a raid.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
Ron_Burgundy_79✭✭✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »Light Weaver Passive:
Increases the duration of Restoring Aura by 20%
Healing Ritual grants 2 Ultimate to allies under 60% Health
Channeling Right of Passage grants 16500 bonus to your Amor.
Sacred Ground Passive:
While standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage areas of effect and for up to 4 seconds after leaving them you gain Major Mending, increasing your healing done by 25%.
Enemies standing in your Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus or Rite of Passage areas of effect have their Movement Speed reduced by 30%.
Here is what I propose
Light Weaver:
Increases the duration of Restoring Aura by 20%
Healing Ritual grants 2 Ultimate to allies under 60% Health
Channeling Right of Passage grants 16500 bonus to your Amor.
Rune Focus grants Major Mending while standing in its radius and for 2 seconds after leaving its vicinity
Sacred Ground:
Enemies standing in your Cleansing Ritual area of effect have their Movement Speed reduced by 30%.
Logic:
DKs get MM while their Puny Shield is up and ZoS is happy with this. This means DKs have a small window to get a burst heal off (Dragon's Blood, Rally), but HoTs would be affected without it (Vigor, Mutagen).
So If we restrict MM to apply only to Rune Focus, while inside we have a similar situation. While standing in its puny radius, Templars will have a small window to get a burst heal off (BoL, Rally), but HoTs would be affected outside it after 2 seconds(Vigor, Sweeps).
Personally I feel this fits in with the "Templar House" Theme
Minor Mending could be kept and applied while standing in Cleansing Ritual, but that's overkill imo. Rune Focus should be enhanced to Major Mending. This would require more strategic gameplay seeing as ESO is very mobile oriented. BoL spammers would be less effective and would have to stay put (Death Sentence) or they would have to constantly cast Rune as they move (Less BoLs being cast ) This also nerfs the Magplars who Mist Form, Block Cast BoL then mist and never die.
Stamplars don't have infinite Magicka so I propose we reduce the cost of Restoring Focus by 15%. Not as Cheap as Channeled but will allow Stamplars more casts and let them keep up MM more often.
The Main issue people have with Templars is BoL so why doesn't ZoS address that skill directly? This keeps Stamplars out of it and leaves Puncturing Sweeps out of it as well. Beating around the bush with MM was a bad call. Give it a 10% Nerf to start and adjust accordingly. Do Something!
I tried to be as realistic as possible. Ideally Templars would get all changes reverted and get Blazing Spear changed or Luminous Shards fixed but ZoS is stubborn.
That sounds good, but if it is the case, Templar has easy access to a long major mending uptime, how can nightblade and sorc healers compete with that? And if ZoS give nightblade and sorc major mending, people will revolt because they will be extremely OP in PvP.
So, the main issue isn't solved, non-Templar healers still cannot compete with Templar healers.
As many have stated, major mending isn't what separated Templars from the other classes. Templars were by far the best healer because of the ability to restore resources through shards/spear and repentance. Both have been nerfed into oblivion. In theory, the other classes should be able to compete with Templars even if Templars have major mending due to these changes.1 -
Ron_Burgundy_79✭✭✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »ScooberSteve wrote: »I think people are missing the point that all templars can do well is heal everything else is average. Whats the point in playing a clasd thats average at everything?
I think you are also missing the point. Sorc, nightblade, DK aren't even average in healing compared to Templar, they are pathetic in healing. If you want to keep Templar the only viable healer class, then make sure their DPS and tanking capability are as pathetic as a nightblade's capability to be the main healer in a raid.
The other classes were bad at buffing group resource sustain. This is no longer an issue. Templars are now on the same level due to shards essentially being a poor man's version of orbs and repentance being gutted.Edited by Ron_Burgundy_79 on 21 April 2017 01:360 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Light Weaver Passive:
Increases the duration of Restoring Aura by 20%
Healing Ritual grants 2 Ultimate to allies under 60% Health
Channeling Right of Passage grants 16500 bonus to your Amor.
Sacred Ground Passive:
While standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage areas of effect and for up to 4 seconds after leaving them you gain Major Mending, increasing your healing done by 25%.
Enemies standing in your Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus or Rite of Passage areas of effect have their Movement Speed reduced by 30%.
Here is what I propose
Light Weaver:
Increases the duration of Restoring Aura by 20%
Healing Ritual grants 2 Ultimate to allies under 60% Health
Channeling Right of Passage grants 16500 bonus to your Amor.
Rune Focus grants Major Mending while standing in its radius and for 2 seconds after leaving its vicinity
Sacred Ground:
Enemies standing in your Cleansing Ritual area of effect have their Movement Speed reduced by 30%.
Logic:
DKs get MM while their Puny Shield is up and ZoS is happy with this. This means DKs have a small window to get a burst heal off (Dragon's Blood, Rally), but HoTs would be affected without it (Vigor, Mutagen).
So If we restrict MM to apply only to Rune Focus, while inside we have a similar situation. While standing in its puny radius, Templars will have a small window to get a burst heal off (BoL, Rally), but HoTs would be affected outside it after 2 seconds(Vigor, Sweeps).
Personally I feel this fits in with the "Templar House" Theme
Minor Mending could be kept and applied while standing in Cleansing Ritual, but that's overkill imo. Rune Focus should be enhanced to Major Mending. This would require more strategic gameplay seeing as ESO is very mobile oriented. BoL spammers would be less effective and would have to stay put (Death Sentence) or they would have to constantly cast Rune as they move (Less BoLs being cast ) This also nerfs the Magplars who Mist Form, Block Cast BoL then mist and never die.
Stamplars don't have infinite Magicka so I propose we reduce the cost of Restoring Focus by 15%. Not as Cheap as Channeled but will allow Stamplars more casts and let them keep up MM more often.
The Main issue people have with Templars is BoL so why doesn't ZoS address that skill directly? This keeps Stamplars out of it and leaves Puncturing Sweeps out of it as well. Beating around the bush with MM was a bad call. Give it a 10% Nerf to start and adjust accordingly. Do Something!
I tried to be as realistic as possible. Ideally Templars would get all changes reverted and get Blazing Spear changed or Luminous Shards fixed but ZoS is stubborn.
That sounds good, but if it is the case, Templar has easy access to a long major mending uptime, how can nightblade and sorc healers compete with that? And if ZoS give nightblade and sorc major mending, people will revolt because they will be extremely OP in PvP.
So, the main issue isn't solved, non-Templar healers still cannot compete with Templar healers.
As many have stated, major mending isn't what separated Templars from the other classes. Templars were by far the best healer because of the ability to restore resources through shards/spear and repentance. Both have been nerfed into oblivion. In theory, the other classes should be able to compete with Templars even if Templars have major mending due to these changes.
I think that for vet Trials folks, high MM uptime will still play an important role, but I am willing to try out utb99's idea, see how it actually works, we can adjust later.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
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Warden has got most major buffs and debuffs available in the game and they apply to multiple targets. They are the most versatile class of all. Any group will request a warden in any content. They don't need to compete with templar healers.
Do you think trial groups will drop templars, or run all wardens?
I don't think so. Trial groups will keep using templar healers and probably use a warden off-tank. I just meant that ZOS does not need to gut existing classes to make warden look more interesting. That class is quite well designed as it is with great support skills. It will be balanced eventually, but these things require time. I would like to see more synergies and support skills added to other classes to encourage team play, not their removal.
I think the idea that templar healing amongst all other class nerfs were gutted to make warden more appealing is a terrible thought being propagated. The reality is its healing would be immediately received as underwhelming because like all other classes, they couldnt even compete and would be laughed at to use when compared to a templar. I agree we need more synergy and team play - especially at the trial level. I want shards/repent restored/rebuilt to keep their teamplay functions. I want templars to keep their ability to burst heal as well - but knocking at major mending seems fine. They need to adjust wardens uptime on major mending though. If its going to be off healing, then it has to be on targets lower health, and should scrape off 1-2 seconds. This would allow it to be a buffer here and there, not a reliable tool. 50% is considered reliable for me.1 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »ScooberSteve wrote: »I think people are missing the point that all templars can do well is heal everything else is average. Whats the point in playing a clasd thats average at everything?
I think you are also missing the point. Sorc, nightblade, DK aren't even average in healing compared to Templar, they are pathetic in healing. If you want to keep Templar the only viable healer class, then make sure their DPS and tanking capability are as pathetic as a nightblade's capability to be the main healer in a raid.
The other classes were bad at buffing group resource sustain. This is no longer an issue. Templars are now on the same level due to shards essentially being a poor man's version of orbs and repentance being gutted.
Correct, right now non-Templar healers cannot feed resources to the group (and to a lesser extend, don't have major mending, while Templar has an easy to maintain and high uptime major mending), that's why they are pathetic in healing compared to Templar.
I think orb is a poor man's version of shard.
And yup, I also don't agree with the repentance's nerf. It is completely unnecessary.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
austinwalter87ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭This game was designed for allowing all classes to be able to perform all traditional MMO roles. However, when a class has a designated line for healing that class should excel over the others in that role.
It would make zero freaking sense for sorcerers and dks to make better healers than classes with entire skill lines dedicated to it.
As long as this is the direction of Templar I will not be playing ESO nor funding it.PC and PS4 (bring back character transfers please?)
Templar Extraordinaire3 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »This game was designed for allowing all classes to be able to perform all traditional MMO roles. However, when a class has a designated line for healing that class should excel over the others in that role.
It would make zero freaking sense for sorcerers and dks to make better healers than classes with entire skill lines dedicated to it.
As long as this is the direction of Templar I will not be playing ESO nor funding it.
Look, Sorc healers aren't going to dethrone Templar healers. Templar will still be the best class in healing as I have explained many many times in this thread, they still have the best kit for group support besides feeding resources: AOE minor magickasteal, minor sorcery to the group, backlash debuff, a nice burst heal, nice AOE HoT, high minor mending uptime (meaning highest SPC uptime, all raids will need at least a Templar wearing SPC), Eclipse is buffed (for PvP) etc. What does a sorc healer have? Well, an oh-**** button that takes 2 slots in your bars, that's it. Oh, and negate for PvP.
Excelling and being the only class that is allowed to heal are 2 different things. Right now on live, Templar is the only class that is allowed to heal, while Templar DDs are allowed to DPS and Templar tanks are allowed to tank. Giving other classes a chance to compete with Templar healers is a good thing that we should encourage.
Oh, and Repentance nerf isn't necessary.Edited by hmsdragonfly on 21 April 2017 03:22Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
Ron_Burgundy_79✭✭✭✭✭Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.
Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp
You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.
BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.
p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.
@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.
Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.
Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp
You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.
BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.
p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.
@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.
Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.
Everytime someone disagrees with you, you label them a troll and tell them they're QQing. What's constructive about that?
Wait where did I call that guy a troll? Please show me.
Someone who actually reads the thread will know that your statement is false and on another level of misleading.
Other people and I are having a constructive discussion in this thread, half of the people in this thread disagree with me. Then suddenly a guy came in, started QQing, he had no interest in discussing the matter in a constructive way, he didn't explain their oppinion, didn't make any argument. The only thing he was able to say is "It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about." I
It's not my fault if someone cannot explain their opinions, provide constructive arguments, and all they can do is saying things like "It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about." and "I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about". That's not disagreeing, they do not provide any points, any arguments, nothing I can do about that. They are the ones who don't know what they are talking about.
Oh, on the topic of "discussion", we were having a discussion as well, you wish to continue or you want to start QQing as well?
Here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017912/#Comment_4017912
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017939/#Comment_4017939
I take silence as you agree with my points.hmsdragonfly wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.
Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp
You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.
BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.
p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.
@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.
Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »All Templar healers are using restro anyway, I don't see your point.
Because you are thinking Pve, but I am thinking Pvp
You are spamming BoL in PvP? Then you are not a Templar healer, you are a BoL-spamming-plar. Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King. Templar healers use restro, even in PvP.
BoL isn't the only heal, mate. And it isn't even the best one. Please don't join the masses in assuming that all Templars wear Reactive and Troll King. I don't use either. You need to clear your mind if you wish to help balance classes.
p.s. I will take the advice you gave @Pallio . To leave this thread. But only because Pallio is right. I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about.
@maxjapank
I have never said you use Reactive and Troll King. I said "Some might call you Trollplar if you happen to wear Reactive and Troll King". So you don't spam BoL, then you spam Healing Ritual? What's the difference then? All tanks use Sword and Board, they can pair it with back bar S&B/Restro/Two-Handed/Ice Staff, depending on the content and the way they want to play, just like how good Templars healers are using Restro anyway, they can back bar S&B/DW/Destro/Restro, whatever they like, but Healing Ward, Combat Prayer are too important for a Healer to pass. So, I still don't see your point at all.
Let's make it clear, you leave the thread because all you want to do is QQ, while other people and I are having a constructive discussion.
Everytime someone disagrees with you, you label them a troll and tell them they're QQing. What's constructive about that?
Wait where did I call that guy a troll? Please show me.
Someone who actually reads the thread will know that your statement is false and on another level of misleading.
Other people and I are having a constructive discussion in this thread, half of the people in this thread disagree with me. Then suddenly a guy came in, started QQing, he had no interest in discussing the matter in a constructive way, he didn't explain their oppinion, didn't make any argument. The only thing he was able to say is "It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about." I
It's not my fault if someone cannot explain their opinions, provide constructive arguments, and all they can do is saying things like "It only seems simple because you have no idea what you are talking about." and "I don't think you fully understand what you are talking about". That's not disagreeing, they do not provide any points, any arguments, nothing I can do about that. They are the ones who don't know what they are talking about.
Oh, on the topic of "discussion", we were having a discussion as well, you wish to continue or you want to start QQing as well?
Here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017912/#Comment_4017912
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4017939/#Comment_4017939
I take silence as you agree with my points.
[snip] I could list out the reasons for why you're wrong, but it will be no different than the responses I've given to the other trolls over the past 4 months. You'll still continue to spew ignorance. See below if you need insight as to why I have no desire to engage.
[snip]
[Edit to remove bait.]
Happy to see someone from ZOS is reading the forums. Can you guys remove the templar nerfs from the patch notes? That's definitely considered bait.0 -
F7sus4✭✭✭✭✭
✭
No Magicka Sorcerer and neither did Stamina DK ever mainhealed vMOL hardmode (btw, I actually mentioned vHOF). If you want to prove this wrong I'm graciously waiting for a vid. Though I find defending ridiculous statments just for sake of argument quite shallow.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
"Deltia said...". You made my day.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Deltia said in a video that one of his friend is a sorc tank who has tanked vMoL HM. Sorc tanks are hugely underrated, they are not bad by any mean, only that few people try them.
Talk to me when you clear vHOF with your Magicka Sorcerer tank and your Stamina DK healer. Please sell this copycat PR-sugar toilet build ideology somewhere else, honestly. Thanks!This isnt an issue that needs to be solved. There shouldnt be a defined single healer. There should be classes with strengths for each category.
As a confirmation, you are saying, that no sorc tank has ever completed vMoL? Is that what you are trying to say? Please confirm it.
Even if you find one - it still doesn't prove anything and should be considered as an outstanding personal achievement rather than a confirmation that the class is meant to do it. There are people who completed Dark Souls with Guitar Hero controller. That's crazy stuff. But it doesn't mean it's the way to play it even if there's 1 person out of 1000 who did it.
Common sense is a good friend.0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭
No Magicka Sorcerer and neither did Stamina DK ever mainhealed vMOL hardmode (btw, I actually mentioned vHOF). If you want to prove this wrong I'm graciously waiting for a vid. Though I find defending ridiculous statments just for sake of argument quite shallow.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
"Deltia said...". You made my day.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Deltia said in a video that one of his friend is a sorc tank who has tanked vMoL HM. Sorc tanks are hugely underrated, they are not bad by any mean, only that few people try them.
Talk to me when you clear vHOF with your Magicka Sorcerer tank and your Stamina DK healer. Please sell this copycat PR-sugar toilet build ideology somewhere else, honestly. Thanks!This isnt an issue that needs to be solved. There shouldnt be a defined single healer. There should be classes with strengths for each category.
As a confirmation, you are saying, that no sorc tank has ever completed vMoL? Is that what you are trying to say? Please confirm it.
Even if you find one - it still doesn't prove anything and should be considered as an outstanding personal achievement rather than a confirmation that the class is meant to do it. There are people who completed Dark Souls with Guitar Hero controller. That's crazy stuff. But it doesn't mean it's the way to play it even if there's 1 person out of 1000 who did it.
Common sense is a good friend.
Why it has to be Magicka Sorcerer? Main tanks are all hybrid weird stuffs as they don't deal damage anyway.
I said: "Deltia said in a video that one of his friend is a sorc tank who has tanked vMoL HM. Sorc tanks are hugely underrated, they are not bad by any mean, only that few people try them."
Why are you changing the subject?Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
F7sus4✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Because this was exactly the example I gave in my first post and to which you responded arguing.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
No Magicka Sorcerer and neither did Stamina DK ever mainhealed vMOL hardmode (btw, I actually mentioned vHOF). If you want to prove this wrong I'm graciously waiting for a vid. Though I find defending ridiculous statments just for sake of argument quite shallow.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
"Deltia said...". You made my day.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Deltia said in a video that one of his friend is a sorc tank who has tanked vMoL HM. Sorc tanks are hugely underrated, they are not bad by any mean, only that few people try them.
Talk to me when you clear vHOF with your Magicka Sorcerer tank and your Stamina DK healer. Please sell this copycat PR-sugar toilet build ideology somewhere else, honestly. Thanks!This isnt an issue that needs to be solved. There shouldnt be a defined single healer. There should be classes with strengths for each category.
As a confirmation, you are saying, that no sorc tank has ever completed vMoL? Is that what you are trying to say? Please confirm it.
Even if you find one - it still doesn't prove anything and should be considered as an outstanding personal achievement rather than a confirmation that the class is meant to do it. There are people who completed Dark Souls with Guitar Hero controller. That's crazy stuff. But it doesn't mean it's the way to play it even if there's 1 person out of 1000 who did it.
Common sense is a good friend.
Why it has to be Magicka Sorcerer? Main tanks are all hybrid weird stuffs as they don't deal damage anyway.
But once again - if there's one guy that happened to make it once it doesn't automatically mean it's "new meta" or new playstyle etc. It merely means that someone by taking extraordinary and unneccesary amount of work on top with extraordinary skill eventually made it. Once. Twice. In no place does this affect general dominant DKs position for tanking. The same goes for healers basically excluding any examples given in my initial post.
Edited by F7sus4 on 21 April 2017 07:580 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Because this was the example I gave in my first post and to which you started responding.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
No Magicka Sorcerer and neither did Stamina DK ever mainhealed vMOL hardmode (btw, I actually mentioned vHOF). If you want to prove this wrong I'm graciously waiting for a vid. Though I find defending ridiculous statments just for sake of argument quite shallow.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
"Deltia said...". You made my day.hmsdragonfly wrote: »
Deltia said in a video that one of his friend is a sorc tank who has tanked vMoL HM. Sorc tanks are hugely underrated, they are not bad by any mean, only that few people try them.
Talk to me when you clear vHOF with your Magicka Sorcerer tank and your Stamina DK healer. Please sell this copycat PR-sugar toilet build ideology somewhere else, honestly. Thanks!This isnt an issue that needs to be solved. There shouldnt be a defined single healer. There should be classes with strengths for each category.
As a confirmation, you are saying, that no sorc tank has ever completed vMoL? Is that what you are trying to say? Please confirm it.
Even if you find one - it still doesn't prove anything and should be considered as an outstanding personal achievement rather than a confirmation that the class is meant to do it. There are people who completed Dark Souls with Guitar Hero controller. That's crazy stuff. But it doesn't mean it's the way to play it even if there's 1 person out of 1000 who did it.
Common sense is a good friend.
Why it has to be Magicka Sorcerer? Main tanks are all hybrid weird stuffs as they don't deal damage anyway.
Oh true, my apology.
But yeah, a hybrid Sorc can tank very well. We agree on that?Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
F7sus4✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Allow me to quote myself so you can ignore it again:hmsdragonfly wrote: »Oh true, my apology.
But yeah, a hybrid Sorc can tank very well. We agree on that?But once again - if there's one guy that happened to make it once it doesn't automatically mean it's "new meta" or new playstyle etc. It merely means that someone by taking extraordinary and unneccesary amount of work on top with extraordinary skill eventually made it. Once. Twice. In no place does this affect general dominant DKs position for tanking. The same goes for healers basically excluding any examples given in my initial post.0 -
SublimeSparo✭✭✭✭✭Simplest solution- delete game
Funest Solution- everyone remove all gear, cp, mundus, attributes etc. Equip bucket and broom.
PS4 EU CP900. PS4 NA CP600,
vAA HM ☆ vHRC HM ☆ vSO HM ☆ vMOL
4th Console vMOL clear,
vMA cleared on all classes stam & magic
My TribeEU
High Sparo - Altmer - mSo DD.
Wood Sparo - Bosmer - sNB DD
Nord Sparo - Nord -sDK DD/Tank.
Bubble Girl - Imperial -sTe DD
Succubus Sue - Breton - mNB Tank.
Andrana Stormlock - Altmer - mTe Healer/ DD
Elvali Marvani - Dunmer - mDK DD.
Venemus Draconem - Redguard - sDK DD
Jayri Leki - Redguard - sSo DD.
Miss Jabsalot - Altmer - mTe PvP DD/ Tank
Mireli Hlaano - Dunmer - mNB DD.
Ms Shanks - Redguard - sNB DD/ le bank
NA
Dilemma Dame - Altmer - mDK DD
Stamsorc Kitty - Redguard - sSor DD
Aia Draconis - Imperial - sDK Tank
Decides-Who-Lives - Argonian - mTe Healer
You wont stop me - Altmer - mSo DD
Stab in the dark - Khajiit - sNB DD
Jabjabjab Beambeambeam - Dunmer - mTe DD
Spatium Auxiliarus - Imperial - hTe Tank&bank
Spectre - Altmer - mNB DD
Can't-Main-Tank -Argonian - sDK offTank2 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭While in your circle you gain major, outside you gain minor, one or the other, never both
Nice idea.
Allow me to quote myself so you can ignore it again:hmsdragonfly wrote: »Oh true, my apology.
But yeah, a hybrid Sorc can tank very well. We agree on that?But once again - if there's one guy that happened to make it once it doesn't automatically mean it's "new meta" or new playstyle etc. It merely means that someone by taking extraordinary and unneccesary amount of work on top with extraordinary skill eventually made it. Once. Twice. In no place does this affect general dominant DKs position for tanking. The same goes for healers basically excluding any examples given in my initial post.
Lol!Edited by maxjapank on 21 April 2017 08:300 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Allow me to quote myself so you can ignore it again:hmsdragonfly wrote: »Oh true, my apology.
But yeah, a hybrid Sorc can tank very well. We agree on that?But once again - if there's one guy that happened to make it once it doesn't automatically mean it's "new meta" or new playstyle etc. It merely means that someone by taking extraordinary and unneccesary amount of work on top with extraordinary skill eventually made it. Once. Twice. In no place does this affect general dominant DKs position for tanking. The same goes for healers basically excluding any examples given in my initial post.
You want to do it that way? Fine.
Fengrush's intitial point is "There shouldnt be a defined single healer.".
This is your reply to his point:
Talk to me when you clear vHOF with your Magicka Sorcerer tank and your Stamina DK healer. Please sell this copycat PR-sugar toilet build ideology somewhere else, honestly. Thanks!This isnt an issue that needs to be solved. There shouldnt be a defined single healer. There should be classes with strengths for each category.
I don't know what grudge you have against Fengrush before this thread, and I don't care, but you went full toxic and insulted him, because he made a point that you didn't like. Fengrush made a completely logical and reasonable point, and you called his point "copycat PR-sugar toilet build ideology". It's not that you disagree with him because of any logical reasons, you didn't make any proper argument to express your opinion regarding it, you just dared him to tank with a Magicka Sorcerer and to heal with a Stamina DK, which is 100% beside the point "There shouldnt be a defined single healer", then you insulted him personally.
Now I misread your post, I didn't see the Magicka part in your "Magicka Sorcerer", (I know that's my fault and I apologized for it) I assumed that you meant Sorc cannot tank (as it is related to Fengrush's intial point), so I made a point that sorc actually can tank. No one is saying that a sorc tank is more effective than a DK tank or anything, they aren't, like how a Templar DD isn't more effective than a sorc DD, for example, but at least they are not too far behind. They can compete with a DK tank for a spot in a raid to some extend. It would like to see some slight buff to non-DK tanks, but that's for another topic. Now take a look at Healers. No other class has a slightest chance to compete against Templar healers, because they cannot feed their group with resources like a Templar can. In this game right now, there are rules in the community regarding the trinity roles: Tank has to taunt, debuff, and hold aggro. DD has to meet a certain requirement of DPS. Healer has to heal and feed the group with resources. A sorc tank can taunt, debuff and hold aggro. A templar tank can do all the same thing. They are just less effective than a DK in general but they can do every single thing that a DK tank can do. A Nightblade healer, for the love of god, has no skills that can feed stamina to the group like Templar's shards and repentence. Non-Templar healers cannot effectively fulfill the job of a healer. And they have no Major mending, while Templar healers have a very easy-to-access Major mending with high uptime that they can keep it up 100%. Non-Templar healers are pathetic compared to Templar healers, so, they are almost not allowed to take part in a raid.
So the main question is, should it be the case? Should there be a defined single healer? If you argue that it should be a defined single healer, and that's Templar, then take away their DPS and Tanking capatibilites. Templar's DPS is too strong, they were even Meta last patch, and this patch they are not far behind sorc, and way above than NB. Make it so that Templar's DPS compared to Sorc's DPS is as pathetic as a Nightblade healer compared to a Templar healer. Then also, take away DK's DPS capatibilty. DK DDs currently have the highest single-target DPS, take that away from them, make sure they can only tank. If a Sorc cannot heal, then it's only fair that a DK or a Templar cannot DPS. You want to keep it that way?
Last question, why do you have to be that toxic to people? You might hold some grudge against Fengrush, I don't know, maybe jealousy or he killed you in Cyrodiil or something, but I have no idea so I don't judge. But me, I am a nobody, I am pretty sure I have even seen you before, my first reply to you was completely calm and all that (despite the obvious toxicity in your comment)hmsdragonfly wrote: »Deltia said in a video that one of his friend is a sorc tank who has tanked vMoL HM. Sorc tanks are hugely underrated, they are not bad by any mean, only that few people try them.
But then you also started to go full toxic on me, and trying to hide your toxicity with a .... heart ?"Deltia said...". You made my day.
Not sure what you are trying to do. Some people never fail to surprise me. I don't think drawing a heart on someone's forehead will make him a better person. "I am a toxic person? Oh, just let me draw a heart on my forehead, see, i am not toxic anymore". Like, what?
Edited by hmsdragonfly on 21 April 2017 09:31Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
utb99✭✭✭I agree Magicka Templar should be ESO's main healing class and most likely will be for the time being.
Warden looks like a reliable off healer but their MM time should be reduced to match other classes short duration or lack of the buff
For Sorc, to help their group maybe conduit should restore magicka over time.
For DK, Ash Cloud could restore stamina over time
For NB, have soul siphon be cheaper. I don't have an idea on they could assist resource management
maybe they could give ulti regen to differentiate themselves? Idk
DK "has MM" already
Sorc could get Minor Mending from Empowered Ward
NB Could get Minor Mending from Funnel Health
(Admittedly I myself am not comfortable with NBs and Sorcs having Major Mending but thats because I mainly pvp)
The passive in resto skill line that gives Major should be extended from 3 seconds to 8 seconds.
Just Ideas from an Honor the Dead spammer'The gods can turn anything to good' -Martin Septim1 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree Magicka Templar should be ESO's main healing class and most likely will be for the time being.
Warden looks like a reliable off healer but their MM time should be reduced to match other classes short duration or lack of the buff
For Sorc, to help their group maybe conduit should restore magicka over time.
For DK, Ash Cloud could restore stamina over time
For NB, have soul siphon be cheaper. I don't have an idea on they could assist resource management maybe they could give ulti regen to differentiate themselves? Idk
DK "has MM" already
Sorc could get Minor Mending from Empowered Ward
NB Could get Minor Mending from Funnel Health
(Admittedly I myself am not comfortable with NBs and Sorcs having Major Mending but thats because I mainly pvp)
The passive in resto skill line that gives Major should be extended from 3 seconds to 8 seconds.
Just Ideas from an Honor the Dead spammer
I agree with Templar being the main healing class, as long as other classes have a chance to compete for a slot in a raid. Like how Templar DDs currently can run vet trials.
Definitely that Warden's MM uptime should be reduced to match other classes.
Your idea of class-based support abilities is great. To add my opinion, all of these should restore stamina, as tanks constantly need it. Then Orb can stay with providing magicka. This is much better than the super clunky "restore resources based on the missing percentage blah blah", I don't even know how it actually works, the mechanic of it feels super clunky.
Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0