Idea - New Potion Alchemical Trait - Purify (Hopefully help PvP)

Avran_Sylt · April 2017

This, is a tentative inquiry into helping PvP gain back some... "skill" as it were.

It seems many players have a gripe about poisons, and a severe lack of an ability to remove these debuffs themselves. They could sacrifice a 5 piece set for the Wyrd Tree, or similar set, but I feel that shoehorns players into having only a set as a counter for something easily slotted by any player

So, this is a suggestion to implement an effect into the game that is similar to that of the Potion of Immovability.

Introducing: The Potion of Purification.

Using some reagents that have the Purify alchemical trait, a player is able to create a potion of Purification. A potion of purification will apply the purifying waters buff on the player, which will initially remove 4 debuffs, then remove 2 debuffs every 2 seconds for 15 or so seconds.

There would be a reagent that has both the Immovable Trait and the Purify Trait, so a player could make a potion that would make them immune to snares, and debuffs for about 15s. However, this potion would not be able to have any sort of stam/hp/magicka restorative abilities. (Some have suggested this to be too op)

This may also inadvertently make glyphs of potion speed a more interesting choice in PvP.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

WhiteMage · April 2017

Too darn strong. Please pardon my Templar bias, but immovable and immunity to negative effects for 15 seconds just says "*** counter-play! It's my time to shine!" every time someone uses that potion. I do think we need an alchemy revamp though. I think it should be reworked/swapped around so that you can pair any 3 regular effects, any 2 regular and one powerful effect, or 2 powerful effects and no third one, or something thereabouts.

Powerful effects being:
Immovability
Invisibility
Major Vitality
Major Expedition
Purify

Regular effects are:
Restore Health and Major Fortitude
Restore Stamina and Major Endurance
Restore Magicka and Major Intellect
Major Savagery
Major Prophecy
Major Resolve
Major Ward

The purify effect I think should be something more along the lines of: remove x negative effect(s) every y seconds for z duration. Also, idrk where I would put sustained health restore in the above classification.

Though, this still does seem a little strong... hmmm.

Avran_Sylt · April 2017

@WhiteMage

Interesting Ideas.

I'd place Sustained Restore health as a Powerful effect.

700 hp per second for 45 seconds is a grand total 31,500 hp restored.
Edit: Nearly 900 hp per sec for my char currently for 48 sec, so 43,200 hp restored over the duration
Edit: I'm really liking the idea of remove debuffs every 2 seconds. kinda like your heartbeat pumping the "purifying" water through your body. or something. gonna change it in the initial post.

AllPlayAndNoWork · April 2017

Doesn't purge work for these ?

Turelus · April 2017

AllPlayAndNoWork wrote: »

Doesn't purge work for these ?

That's asking people to change their OMG WTF WIN build though. Can't be adding counter play skills and lose damage when the game can be changed to allow you your cake and eat it.

The base idea isn't bad op, but the numbers are way off especially continued removal of two for 15 seconds.

Avran_Sylt · April 2017

@AllPlayAndNoWork

Yep! Didn't know of this skill. But, it seems rather one-sided.

Having a base cost of 8,100 Magicka!
a morph of it reduces the cost to about 4,100 Magicka, which is more reasonable.

However, what this means is that if a stamina users wants to purge their poison debuffs, they'll have to use nearly their entire magicka bar, or use it twice with the morph.

For Magicka based classes this skill almost becomes the cost of a roll-dodge (but the magicka variant for poisons) or even less whlie still having an off pool of resources for cand stuns.

While in groups this purge skill becomes rather useless, as it will not be able to clear very much at all (nor should it). But, Consider the aspect of stunning and immobilizations , this eats stamina, and a counter to this is the immovable potion for a set duration (which I kinda think is OP, but understandable). Then consider the Poisons, with such a multitude of debuffs on you you'll not be guaranteed that the poison buff itself will be removed, so to counter poison debuffs, use a potion of purification. It'll occupy a potion bonus, as well as having a significant cooldown providing a window of opportunity for players.

Draxys · April 2017

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@AllPlayAndNoWork

Yep! Didn't know of this skill. But, it seems rather one-sided.

Having a base cost of 8,100 Magicka!
a morph of it reduces the cost to about 4,100 Magicka, which is more reasonable.

However, what this means is that if a stamina users wants to purge their poison debuffs, they'll have to use nearly their entire magicka bar, or use it twice with the morph.

For Magicka based classes this skill almost becomes the cost of a roll-dodge (but the magicka variant for poisons) or even less whlie still having an off pool of resources for cand stuns.

While in groups this purge skill becomes rather useless, as it will not be able to clear very much at all (nor should it). But, Consider the aspect of stunning and immobilizations , this eats stamina, and a counter to this is the immovable potion for a set duration (which I kinda think is OP, but understandable). Then consider the Poisons, with such a multitude of debuffs on you you'll not be guaranteed that the poison buff itself will be removed, so to counter poison debuffs, use a potion of purification. It'll occupy a potion bonus, as well as having a significant cooldown providing a window of opportunity for players.

Just gonna pop in to say that purge in a pvp group is 100% necessary. More important than any other support skills.

Turelus · April 2017

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

While in groups this purge skill becomes rather useless, as it will not be able to clear very much at all (nor should it). But, Consider the aspect of stunning and immobilizations , this eats stamina, and a counter to this is the immovable potion for a set duration (which I kinda think is OP, but understandable). Then consider the Poisons, with such a multitude of debuffs on you you'll not be guaranteed that the poison buff itself will be removed, so to counter poison debuffs, use a potion of purification. It'll occupy a potion bonus, as well as having a significant cooldown providing a window of opportunity for players.

I see you've never experienced a bomb train.

Avran_Sylt · April 2017

@Turelus
The reason for continued removal is in part because of the multitude of debuffs that can be placed upon a person. Burning, concussed, chilled, poisoned, diseased, bleeds from various sources, minor fracture, Major fracture, minor breech, Major breech, Off-balance, and probably a few more I can't think of off the top of my head. And because you can't actively choose what ones you remove, (like the coverall mechanics of the Immovable potion), and with how frequently debuffs can be placed on you, I think it should remove as much as it actually does.

Avran_Sylt · April 2017

@Turelus

By groups I mean, while facing groups. or more than one player for that matter.

Enslaved · April 2017

Potion of that kind is too strong. Maybe it can work a bit different, as removing 2 effects only if mixed with 3 reagents that remove debuffs. Also, over 12-15 seconds all other CCs/snares applied to you would have shorter duration by 50/40/30/20/10% depending on when they are applied. For example, if CCd in next 2 seconds after using this pot, you would have that CC last for just 50% of its original time. CCs applied from 2-4 seconds are 40% shorter and so on.

Any mixture of this alchemical trait with others would make it able to remove just a single negative effect, and CC resistance would be weaker, too.

Avran_Sylt · April 2017

@Enslaved

Hmm. Interesting idea. I like the idea of increasing effectiveness based on 2/3 reagents with the trait.

It seems many people are thinking that debuff removal is too strong, I'd like to know their reasoning behind this.

For example, as a stamNB I can easily apply Major Fracture/ Major Breech every second just with surprise attack. stack the bleed from a twin slashes, execute DoT from Poison injection, I could even proc twin blade/blunt in that time or have an enchantment proc an elemental debuff on you, and if said enchantment is crushing, that's an assured additional debuff application. This is all without the differing effects from poisons.

Now, admittedly the number of debuffs removed over time would need to be tinkered with, but I think an initial use of the potion should try to remove several debuffs at once.

I don't think this potion trait should even touch CC's at all, that's the job of the immovable reagent trait that's already in the game. It seems you're offering an idea of a trait that is a mixture of both immovable and purify, which could see it's place too, maybe as a "Stalwart" trait.