josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

This has got to be a troll post.

Right!

Stamblades need something in PvP, they have huge problems against almost any other build as those have hard counters to their main selling points. Stealth is so broken that you have to use about 3 cloaks to finally be hidden but any aoe will crush it again.
Stam sorcs wreck Stamnbs so hard with hurricane, dark deal, implosion and streak
Mag sorc has hunting curse, streak and huge shields which can't be hit critically
Stam dk has better sustain, better survivability, can survive the burst combinations easily.
Magdk hard counters Stam nbs with talons, ember, inhale and have a huge heal with coagulating blood and a undodgeable ultimate
Magplar has jabs, BoL and beam to kill the nb easily, shards are very good to counter cloak aswell and they can purge any debuff the nb throws at them
Stamplar is an even match but with major mending and undodgeable jabs + crescent sweep the nb has a hard time.

BohnT wrote: »

Stamblades need something in PvP, they have huge problems against almost any other build as those have hard counters to their main selling points. Stealth is so broken that you have to use about 3 cloaks to finally be hidden but any aoe will crush it again.
Stam sorcs wreck Stamnbs so hard with hurricane, dark deal, implosion and streak
Mag sorc has hunting curse, streak and huge shields which can't be hit critically
Stam dk has better sustain, better survivability, can survive the burst combinations easily.
Magdk hard counters Stam nbs with talons, ember, inhale and have a huge heal with coagulating blood and a undodgeable ultimate
Magplar has jabs, BoL and beam to kill the nb easily, shards are very good to counter cloak aswell and they can purge any debuff the nb throws at them
Stamplar is an even match but with major mending and undodgeable jabs + crescent sweep the nb has a hard time.

Those classes can't put out as much burst as a nb

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Your issue is that they can be countered like any other class ?

joe.smith21b14_ESO wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Stamblades need something in PvP, they have huge problems against almost any other build as those have hard counters to their main selling points. Stealth is so broken that you have to use about 3 cloaks to finally be hidden but any aoe will crush it again.
Stam sorcs wreck Stamnbs so hard with hurricane, dark deal, implosion and streak
Mag sorc has hunting curse, streak and huge shields which can't be hit critically
Stam dk has better sustain, better survivability, can survive the burst combinations easily.
Magdk hard counters Stam nbs with talons, ember, inhale and have a huge heal with coagulating blood and a undodgeable ultimate
Magplar has jabs, BoL and beam to kill the nb easily, shards are very good to counter cloak aswell and they can purge any debuff the nb throws at them
Stamplar is an even match but with major mending and undodgeable jabs + crescent sweep the nb has a hard time.

Those classes can't put out as much burst as a nb

Mag sorc, stam sorc, stamplar can easily put out as much burst as a Stam nb can. Magplar, Stamdk, Magdk provide constant pressure with dots or the risk that you hit 40% health and get beamed to death. The Stamnb doesn't provide anything against these builds other than, hoping your first burst kills them because you have no chance in an open fight.
Stamnb can't out heal bursts in a acceptable time to prevent being killed by any execute it can't purge the Dots which the nb also can't out heal (from a good player). And cloak doesn't work in this case. Any other class has some kind of protection that saves them regardless of the opponent. A shield will always provide its amount of uncrittable health, major mending + block cuts down the damage received and increases the heals enormously. Dark deal + streak + crit surge provides huge additional heals and resources. Coagulating Blood/ BoL give huge heals ( yes can be reduced but both classes can equip and actually use a purge ability)

Stamnb has cloak and shadow as defensive abilities and both can be countered (without any chance for the nb to prevent it) by every good player and every build. Just use an AoE and cloak is gone, with 1/3rd of the magicka from the nb. Shadow can be countered easily just bring the fight to it and it is almost useless except for the minor maim. The nb can't go ranged as no-one dies to a combination of poison injection + Assassin's will and heavy bow attacks as these are the only ranged abilities a stam nb can use. With this in mind you see that nb might be good against noon players but then every other class is good too but against skilled players the nbs defence isn't working.

I know that you can counter every other defence with sets or special builds, but you have to go for it ,while you can easily counter the nbs defence with every build.

I didn't list dodge roll as it is accessible for everyone and has many counters today. It could be a discussion for itself so please leave this argument I thought about it and see the pros and cons of dodge roll if you consider bringing it up

The_Duke wrote: »

I lve been playing a sta

joe.smith21b14_ESO wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Stamblades need something in PvP, they have huge problems against almost any other build as those have hard counters to their main selling points. Stealth is so broken that you have to use about 3 cloaks to finally be hidden but any aoe will crush it again.
Stam sorcs wreck Stamnbs so hard with hurricane, dark deal, implosion and streak
Mag sorc has hunting curse, streak and huge shields which can't be hit critically
Stam dk has better sustain, better survivability, can survive the burst combinations easily.
Magdk hard counters Stam nbs with talons, ember, inhale and have a huge heal with coagulating blood and a undodgeable ultimate
Magplar has jabs, BoL and beam to kill the nb easily, shards are very good to counter cloak aswell and they can purge any debuff the nb throws at them
Stamplar is an even match but with major mending and undodgeable jabs + crescent sweep the nb has a hard time.

Those classes can't put out as much burst as a nb

Id say that a stamplar can put out as much burst if build the same. You wont get empower from a gap closer but cresent sweep hits as hard as incap now. Ive hit over 30k crits testing the other night. And jabs costs less now, is undodgeable and procs selenes or veli better than a NB. Plus they have 6% more weapon damage, the same amount of crit bonus and if wearing slimecraw they get the 8% minor berserk. I use radiant magelight for the gank protection and the empower.

Stamplars have the highest burst potential of all stam classes in my opinion.

BohnT wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Your issue is that they can be countered like any other class ?

joe.smith21b14_ESO wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Stamblades need something in PvP, they have huge problems against almost any other build as those have hard counters to their main selling points. Stealth is so broken that you have to use about 3 cloaks to finally be hidden but any aoe will crush it again.
Stam sorcs wreck Stamnbs so hard with hurricane, dark deal, implosion and streak
Mag sorc has hunting curse, streak and huge shields which can't be hit critically
Stam dk has better sustain, better survivability, can survive the burst combinations easily.
Magdk hard counters Stam nbs with talons, ember, inhale and have a huge heal with coagulating blood and a undodgeable ultimate
Magplar has jabs, BoL and beam to kill the nb easily, shards are very good to counter cloak aswell and they can purge any debuff the nb throws at them
Stamplar is an even match but with major mending and undodgeable jabs + crescent sweep the nb has a hard time.

Those classes can't put out as much burst as a nb

Mag sorc, stam sorc, stamplar can easily put out as much burst as a Stam nb can. Magplar, Stamdk, Magdk provide constant pressure with dots or the risk that you hit 40% health and get beamed to death. The Stamnb doesn't provide anything against these builds other than, hoping your first burst kills them because you have no chance in an open fight.
Stamnb can't out heal bursts in a acceptable time to prevent being killed by any execute it can't purge the Dots which the nb also can't out heal (from a good player). And cloak doesn't work in this case. Any other class has some kind of protection that saves them regardless of the opponent. A shield will always provide its amount of uncrittable health, major mending + block cuts down the damage received and increases the heals enormously. Dark deal + streak + crit surge provides huge additional heals and resources. Coagulating Blood/ BoL give huge heals ( yes can be reduced but both classes can equip and actually use a purge ability)

Stamnb has cloak and shadow as defensive abilities and both can be countered (without any chance for the nb to prevent it) by every good player and every build. Just use an AoE and cloak is gone, with 1/3rd of the magicka from the nb. Shadow can be countered easily just bring the fight to it and it is almost useless except for the minor maim. The nb can't go ranged as no-one dies to a combination of poison injection + Assassin's will and heavy bow attacks as these are the only ranged abilities a stam nb can use. With this in mind you see that nb might be good against noon players but then every other class is good too but against skilled players the nbs defence isn't working.

I know that you can counter every other defence with sets or special builds, but you have to go for it ,while you can easily counter the nbs defence with every build.

I didn't list dodge roll as it is accessible for everyone and has many counters today. It could be a discussion for itself so please leave this argument I thought about it and see the pros and cons of dodge roll if you consider bringing it up

I think the problem is y'all don't know how to nightblade.

BohnT wrote: »

I definitely know how to Nightblade. Try to find some arguments and not just the *** git gud. Stamnb doesn't excel in any role except for ganking and that is just extremely lame in today's meta.
If you think you can play nightblade please fight against any decent player and get rekt because your defensive skills only work against idiots and don't provide any real protection

When im not ganking (oblivion/veli/viper) i run either fury/velidreth/spriggans DW/2h or fasalas/veli/viper DW/bow. I dont see much of a problem with NB. The damage is quick and the defile makes them fold like laundry. After the first incap they go full defense and run to the closest zerg mode.

BohnT wrote: »

I definitely know how to Nightblade. Try to find some arguments and not just the *** git gud. Stamnb doesn't excel in any role except for ganking and that is just extremely lame in today's meta.
If you think you can play nightblade please fight against any decent player and get rekt because your defensive skills only work against idiots and don't provide any real protection

Smiff<<< Grandmaster Ninja

BohnT wrote: »

joe.smith21b14_ESO wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

I definitely know how to Nightblade. Try to find some arguments and not just the *** git gud. Stamnb doesn't excel in any role except for ganking and that is just extremely lame in today's meta.
If you think you can play nightblade please fight against any decent player and get rekt because your defensive skills only work against idiots and don't provide any real protection

Smiff<<< Grandmaster Ninja

I watched all your Videos, some pretty good Scenes, but you don't fight any good Players in an open battle Environment. You gank some scrubs who don't use shields on a sorc but my argument stands cloak doesn't provide any real measurable protection it only works against scrubs who are killable without cloak. Against any decent Player cloak provides absolutly nothing

Maybe you should read the names bruh

BohnT wrote: »

joe.smith21b14_ESO wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

joe.smith21b14_ESO wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

I definitely know how to Nightblade. Try to find some arguments and not just the *** git gud. Stamnb doesn't excel in any role except for ganking and that is just extremely lame in today's meta.
If you think you can play nightblade please fight against any decent player and get rekt because your defensive skills only work against idiots and don't provide any real protection

Smiff<<< Grandmaster Ninja

I watched all your Videos, some pretty good Scenes, but you don't fight any good Players in an open battle Environment. You gank some scrubs who don't use shields on a sorc but my argument stands cloak doesn't provide any real measurable protection it only works against scrubs who are killable without cloak. Against any decent Player cloak provides absolutly nothing

Maybe you should read the names bruh

I play on PC Eu so i don't recognize any of those names, all i see are scrubs who don't even try to have a Chance against you

Then obviously you have no ideas what you talking about bruh

But cloak is broken and is no defense whatsoever for a nb

Mag Blades need a buff. The single most squishy class in the game should do the most damage without any shadow of a doubt.

Cloak is the main defense but it seems like almost everything takes you out of cloak.

ONLY detect pots, revealing flare and magelight should take you out of stealth.

Buff Impale's damage, make cloak great again and get rid of agony in place of an ability someone will actual slot.

I think the night blade execute is far inferior to many classes and should be changed from 24.9% or less health, to maybe 50% like many others are. To be honest 40% seems like a good number even. In Pve it's not a major issue as that nuclear powered mob boss of whatever is sitting on millions of HP's, and is in a contained area. In Pvp it's VERY difficult for a non ganker NB to catch a person in executable range because they're usually either killed, healed, or broke LOS before it can be cast. Now, I can sit around waiting patiently for someone to fall into that range and strike...but why not just be a ganker at that point as the result is an insta kill sucker shot from stealth? I don't prefer that playstyle. The recent range increase is nice...but offers little help as it's completely useless in Pve, and doesn't solve the executable range dilemma in pvp at all. I agree with the OP that MNB's need a boost. Our inherent squishiness is and should be our weakness, and I readily accept that. But a tad more burst would go a long way to resolving what seems to be an almost universally accepted truth: The MNB is the weakest PvE class and the 1st or 2nd weakest PvP class.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

I have not played a templar. But out of my DK, sorc, and NB the NB is harder to play and making even the smallest mistake will get you killed where ass my DK and sorc can make a small mistake and be okay.

I'm not entirely sure how they would buff NB. I just want cloak to be completely redesigned to work and I'd be happy. A nice class self heal would be nice too. I'd give up the "drink a potion and gain ult" passive for a heal.

I think making it so we're less focused around our ultimate would be nice. Nightblades essentially are reliant on their Incap in order to kill something. My other classes aren't really reliant on their ult for kills because the other classes are just better built. Stamblades, not so much.

Yeah, there is a definite reliance on IC. It's somewhat balanced though since the skill costs so little. Even with the cost increase I have it ready within a few seconds.

Though I think this doesn't just apply to NB. I see DK's doing the same thing. You know the combo. They tank and tank and wait for their leap and destroy things in a second.

If they just made a change to shadow image to say "when Teleporting back to shade you absorb the shades power and gain X% of your HP back. The longer your shade is up the heal is increased to a max of x%". It would finally give us a burst heal. The other morph could be for PvE use, where the shades take aggro of you similar to a sorcs clanfear.