Some Ideas to Give Solo Stam Players a Chance Against Zergs

Stamicka · February 2017

For the most part, I am a solo player. I really enjoy playing stamplar but with how incredibly common zerging has become, I find that there's not much that can be done against a Zerg. Especially for people who wear 5-7 medium armor (like me). Now I'm not necessarily saying that Stam players need buffs, but I would like to see at least SOME counterplay to a Zerg. Below are some ideas that I think would at least give Stam players a little more of a chance against large groups.

Give Vigor additional healing based on targets around you
I think that vigor should have a component where the healing you receive is increased with the number of enemies in a certain radius (ex. 1% extra healing per enemy in a 7m radius, the healing bonus is increased for each piece of medium armor equipped) or something along those lines. This would keep vigor reasonable in a 1v1 scenario, but also raise your survivability against a large group all while still requiring some skill. (keeping vigor up)

Make Dodge Rolling even less costly for medium armor users
Currently dodge rolling (especially if done in succession) is a very good counter to incoming damage, but at the same time is extremely costly. With all the abilities that now hit you regardless of dodge rolling, I think that dodge roll needs a cost decrease to improve sustainability and survivability against a Zerg.

AOE CC that's not an ultimate
The majority of Stam players (except Nightblades) don't have an AOE CC except dawnbreaker. I think dawnbreaker is a great AOE CC but since it's an ultimate it's always ready. On top of that dizzy swing which is often a Stam users main CC is pretty hard to land when you're surrounded. I'd suggest putting an AOE CC in one of the Stam weapon skill lines.

At least some AOE Potential
I'm not saying make Stam on par with magicka for AOE damage, but I would at least like more than AOE finishers and caltrops.

Change the Evasion Mechanic
Admittedly, dodge chance does a lot for survivability, but I hate the fact that it's complete RNG. I would like to see Evasion remain a defensive skill, but with an element that you can control rather than luck to increase your survivability.

Feel free to disagree or to contribute any ideas you have

Waffennacht · February 2017

How would you prevent dodge roll from becoming OP? I mean it use to not have an increase but was excruciatingly strong

Stamicka · February 2017

I wasn't suggesting a major decrease in cost, just a slight one,or maybe no cost decrease but a slight buff to the time you are immune to incoming attacks

ManDraKE · February 2017

I mainly play solo stamina:

- Give Vigor additional healing based on targets around you: vigor is already one of the best healing skills in the game, it dosn't need any buff

- Make Dodge Rolling even less costly for medium armor users: with the proper build you can dodge roll for ages. The problem with dodge roll is not that is expensive, is that half of the things in the game are undogeable. Medium armor passives need something else to give survivability.

- AOE CC that's not an ultimate: If other classes get an AoE cc, then give major mending to nightblades LOL. On a more serious note, and AoE CC for everyone will be over the top, well timed dawnbreakers are good enought.

- AOE CC that's not an ultimate: no complains here, brawler should be reworked.

- Change the Evasion Mechanic: first of all shuffle should be tied to ppl using 5-pieces of medium, that will make medium armor useful again. About changing evasion, i'm not sure, medium provides little to non dmg mitigation, avoiding dmg is the way of play and evasion synergies really well with it. Preventing heavy armor builds to have access to shuffle will be enough imo.

Stamicka · February 2017

ManDraKE wrote: »

I mainly play solo stamina:

- Give Vigor additional healing based on targets around you: vigor is already one of the best healing skills in the game, it dosn't need any buff

- Make Dodge Rolling even less costly for medium armor users: with the proper build you can dodge roll for ages. The problem with dodge roll is not that is expensive, is that half of the things in the game are undogeable. Medium armor passives need something else to give survivability.

- AOE CC that's not an ultimate: If other classes get an AoE cc, then give major mending to nightblades LOL. On a more serious note, and AoE CC for everyone will be over the top, well timed dawnbreakers are good enought.

- AOE CC that's not an ultimate: no complains here, brawler should be reworked.

- Change the Evasion Mechanic: first of all shuffle should be tied to ppl using 5-pieces of medium, that will make medium armor useful again. About changing evasion, i'm not sure, medium provides little to non dmg mitigation, avoiding dmg is the way of play and evasion synergies really well with it. Preventing heavy armor builds to have access to shuffle will be enough imo.

I agree that vigor is very good for small encounters but against a lot of people it's not quite enough, even with major mending

Baconlad · February 2017

I.....im sorry, but i severely dissagree with you on most points. Against a zerg? I dont care what defensive capability or what damage dealing spec you are, spamming your defensive capability should NOT let you live through a zerg. The only players who should have a chance surviving against a zerg are tanks. And currently thats pretty accurate. Stamina builds in medium armor can get just as far as a mag build in light armor running from a zerg. The exception to that is magblades and even more so mag sorcs. Im telling you, with a bow defensive bar, you can get so far away from a zerg its stupid. And then you pop a pot and turn on the few enemies stupid enough to follow and wreck em using better skill. Also. I am of mind that vogor should bot exsist, but then again im still reeling that they gave so many magic skills to stamina from the class lines...how much sense does it make that my stamina user has a magical spear he pulls out of his ass that...get this...doesnt use magic. If you want to use the magical spear thats fine...but it should cost you magic! Anyway...enough of that.

I can name many AOE CCs that all but one class has access to. Streak stun, Talons, mass hysteria. Templar SoL, but as stamina we have bombard at the very least. (Hint hint ZoS...give us blinding flashes back as an AoE stun).

The AoE finisher is an amazing tool that accually hits harder than the magic destro staff version BEFORE the finisher aspect. The finisher aspect makes it extremely viable for all AoE needs. You also have two awesome AoEs through bow skill line, and the cheap, powerful ultimate that EVERYONE uses, flawless dawnbreaker or DBoS.

As for evasion tactics, its a really great way to mitigate damage, you want more control over evading skills? Me too. When i want more control i do this: push a directional key and hit "R" which is keybound to my DODGE ROLL comand....evasion as it stands is fine, even after the nerf to it with homestead.

Now heres where i agree with you, remove the continuous dodge roll cost increase, or lower the time required to activate it without the increased cost. Perma dodge rolling toons are not the problem in cyrodil...

leepalmer95 · February 2017

They have a defence against zergs, it's called roll dodging and sprinting away.

arkansas_ESO · February 2017

Stamicka wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

I mainly play solo stamina:

- Give Vigor additional healing based on targets around you: vigor is already one of the best healing skills in the game, it dosn't need any buff

- Make Dodge Rolling even less costly for medium armor users: with the proper build you can dodge roll for ages. The problem with dodge roll is not that is expensive, is that half of the things in the game are undogeable. Medium armor passives need something else to give survivability.

- AOE CC that's not an ultimate: If other classes get an AoE cc, then give major mending to nightblades LOL. On a more serious note, and AoE CC for everyone will be over the top, well timed dawnbreakers are good enought.

- AOE CC that's not an ultimate: no complains here, brawler should be reworked.

- Change the Evasion Mechanic: first of all shuffle should be tied to ppl using 5-pieces of medium, that will make medium armor useful again. About changing evasion, i'm not sure, medium provides little to non dmg mitigation, avoiding dmg is the way of play and evasion synergies really well with it. Preventing heavy armor builds to have access to shuffle will be enough imo.

I agree that vigor is very good for small encounters but against a lot of people it's not quite enough, even with major mending

That's pretty much the way it goes with magicka as well, if the amount of incoming damage exceeds the size of your shields, you're going to go down quick. I'd assume it's by design, and rightly so: balancing a game around one dude taking on ten other guys is kinda dumb. At the same time, I wish that I could actually consistently find fights where I wasn't one dude getting wailed on by ten other guys, or one of ten other guys wailing on one dude.

On the topic of everything going through dodge roll: I think ZOS misinterpreted "Major Evasion is OP" as "dodge is OP", when dodge by itself has been balanced since they gave it an increasing cost penalty, it's just the 15% chance to randomly dodge an attack even if your attacker makes no mistake on their end that is broken. Would really like to see Major Evasion reworked into something consistent and predictable (no more RNG) and then have ZOS rework some of the huge amount of skills that ignore dodge (Soul Assault, Jesus Beam, Hurricane, etc.)

Ocelot9x · February 2017

As a only-stamina player (mainly stam dk),i think that healing is fine. What it really kills the fun when playing stamina is the build diversity. I really love to theorycraft but as a stamina there are only 2 or 3 sets worth using. And im not talking only about medium because medium is garbage and ZOS keep nerfing it.
It's so easy to kill a stamina player wearing medium armor and now there is almost no counterplay. Just deal damage until 60% life then drop an unblockable ult (even dawnbreaker as a magicka is fine) and execute. It's so frustrating wearing medium armor that you are forced to wear heavy.
Also,as someone already said,the only way of surviving as a medium wearer is rolldodging,but it's more and more useless and costly.
Yeah you can build with 2.5k recovery,but then your wrecking blow will hit (when it lands and after 1 sec) for 3k damage,because we dont havy any good recovery set (like lich or amberplasm) so if we go for recovery we dont have any damage.
And please,im so tired of using heavy attacks and wrecking blow or being forced to run S&B (oh,it's broken on consoles because to bash we have to block so our stam recovery will stop for 0.5 sec every 1 sec).

This is now a buff medium armor thread.

Lexxypwns · February 2017

ManDraKE wrote: »

I mainly play solo stamina:

- Give Vigor additional healing based on targets around you: vigor is already one of the best healing skills in the game, it dosn't need any buff

- Make Dodge Rolling even less costly for medium armor users: with the proper build you can dodge roll for ages. The problem with dodge roll is not that is expensive, is that half of the things in the game are undogeable. Medium armor passives need something else to give survivability.

- AOE CC that's not an ultimate: If other classes get an AoE cc, then give major mending to nightblades LOL. On a more serious note, and AoE CC for everyone will be over the top, well timed dawnbreakers are good enought.

- AOE CC that's not an ultimate: no complains here, brawler should be reworked.

- Change the Evasion Mechanic: first of all shuffle should be tied to ppl using 5-pieces of medium, that will make medium armor useful again. About changing evasion, i'm not sure, medium provides little to non dmg mitigation, avoiding dmg is the way of play and evasion synergies really well with it. Preventing heavy armor builds to have access to shuffle will be enough imo.

NBs don't have major mending because you can force your heals to crit with cloak, adding major mending, with this mechanic in place, would mean all stamblades can instant heal to full with just vigor+cloak

TheBonesXXX · February 2017

Remove AoE caps.

Buff sieges, remove the ground indicator from Cold Fire.

leepalmer95 · February 2017

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Remove AoE caps.

Buff sieges, remove the ground indicator from Cold Fire.

That was a bug on console once... and it was such a stupidly OP bug.

Edziu · February 2017

Stamicka wrote: »

For the most part, I am a solo player. I really enjoy playing stamplar but with how incredibly common zerging has become, I find that there's not much that can be done against a Zerg. Especially for people who wear 5-7 medium armor (like me). Now I'm not necessarily saying that Stam players need buffs, but I would like to see at least SOME counterplay to a Zerg. Below are some ideas that I think would at least give Stam players a little more of a chance against large groups.
Give Vigor additional healing based on targets around you

dk will be to op, immortal

Stamicka wrote: »

Make Dodge Rolling even less costly for medium armor users

we have now build for rolldodging and is so annyoing when someone is spamming dodge few time in row with eternal hunt

Stamicka wrote: »

AOE CC that's not an ultimate

again dk will be to op while dont say about damn stam sorc with dark deal and 600 stam regen

Stamicka wrote: »

At least some AOE Potential

its impossible for stamina because of magica builds causes

Stamicka wrote: »

Change the Evasion Mechanic

just remove option to use shuffle while wearing 5 and more pieces of heavy armor and bring back it to 20% dodge chance and it will be fine

ManDraKE · February 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

NBs don't have major mending because you can force your heals to crit with cloak, adding major mending, with this mechanic in place, would mean all stamblades can instant heal to full with just vigor+cloak

i will make sure to add this next time

Knootewoot · February 2017

Like if magicka solo can stand against a zerg. Ever tried magblade? You cannot even dodge roll to get out of the zerg and the only heal is a crappy ward protecting 5/7 light armor. Just avoid zergs and don't let them stampede you. I doubt anyone solo can stand against a zerg, unless you run away and hide.

Stamicka · February 2017

Yes, some of my ideas have flaws and potential to be too powerful, but my point remains, Stamina needs some better mechanics against zergs. I've been pushing for Emp the past few days but it's basically pointless. My damage is single target, when a large group comes I have to dodge roll which burns my Stam, constantly break line of sight, and then carefully time bursts, ocassionally I manage to take on a small group of 4-5 (which is very rare nowadays) but it takes a lot of effort. I then turn around to see a destro ult vicious death bomber wipe a group effortlessly in seconds. That's the problem. Magicka has lots of AOE potential making it very easy for them to get Emp, and making it possible for them to take down a Zerg. But with stamina, you're forced to focus on 1-2 targets at a time, hoping your vigors and bursts are enough to get you through the fight. That's what needs changing.

cjthibs · February 2017

Why should one person ever be able to stand up to a zerg?

Any solution that would accomplish that would effectively make solo players godlike.

leepalmer95 · February 2017

Stamicka wrote: »

Yes, some of my ideas have flaws and potential to be too powerful, but my point remains, Stamina needs some better mechanics against zergs. I've been pushing for Emp the past few days but it's basically pointless. My damage is single target, when a large group comes I have to dodge roll which burns my Stam, constantly break line of sight, and then carefully time bursts, ocassionally I manage to take on a small group of 4-5 (which is very rare nowadays) but it takes a lot of effort. I then turn around to see a destro ult vicious death bomber wipe a group effortlessly in seconds. That's the problem. Magicka has lots of AOE potential making it very easy for them to get Emp, and making it possible for them to take down a Zerg. But with stamina, you're forced to focus on 1-2 targets at a time, hoping your vigors and bursts are enough to get you through the fight. That's what needs changing.

Use siege like everyone else.

thankyourat · February 2017

Stamicka wrote: »

Yes, some of my ideas have flaws and potential to be too powerful, but my point remains, Stamina needs some better mechanics against zergs. I've been pushing for Emp the past few days but it's basically pointless. My damage is single target, when a large group comes I have to dodge roll which burns my Stam, constantly break line of sight, and then carefully time bursts, ocassionally I manage to take on a small group of 4-5 (which is very rare nowadays) but it takes a lot of effort. I then turn around to see a destro ult vicious death bomber wipe a group effortlessly in seconds. That's the problem. Magicka has lots of AOE potential making it very easy for them to get Emp, and making it possible for them to take down a Zerg. But with stamina, you're forced to focus on 1-2 targets at a time, hoping your vigors and bursts are enough to get you through the fight. That's what needs changing.

The vicious death bomber most likely will have to wipe unaware groups though, like people stacked on a flag or you will need some sort of support unless you are just fighting the worse players. That vicious death bomber is basically free AP though if you fight him. It's basically an AP farming build. Or a small group build and he is just the extra thumping power to help fight larger groups. It's not really a solo build though. So play is basically the same way for magicka characters focus one or two targets and kill them. Everything is basically the same only difference is as a magicka players you are very strong at a choke. And stamina is very strong in open fields

Sigtric · February 2017

1. Cyrodiil is built for zerging - the scope and vision was and is for faction ARMIES - not solos
2. No one person should be able to stand through it and live

Mojomonkeyman · February 2017

Sigtric wrote: »

1. Cyrodiil is built for zerging - the scope and vision was and is for faction ARMIES - not solos
2. No one person should be able to stand through it and live

(1) is wrong. ZOS heavily promoted equal dev attention to solo, smallscale and largescale pvp when the game launched. They wanted the solo and smallscalers come and join the family. They even promised equal attention to endgame pvp and engame pve.