What am I doing wrong against mag. DKs?

fred4 · February 2017

I have a problem fighting mag. DKs. I had it before, but with Homestead it has gotten worse. Now you must be thinking that I am writing for advice on dealing with their CC. Nope. That's not it. It's their damage, in duels, that I cannot cope with. I talked to one today. His whip was hitting me for 4K to 5K, which he thought was unusually high.

I play a full CP (600+) stam DK with the following stats:

Nord (6% damage reduction)
Elemental Defender: 16.5% damage reduction
Spell Resist (buffed): 24K (front bar) / 29K (back bar)
Crit Resist: 2100

Front bar is dual-wield, back bar is 2H. I normally play in medium armor, except against mag. DKs I find heavy armor better. The above stats are for heavy armor.

My healing comes from various sources, all of which are healing over time, which is how I prefer playing. I don't use Rally, because I use Forward Momentum. Sources of healing are:

Forward Momentum
Troll King
Bloodthirst
Vigor
Ultimates

Defensive buffs are Shuffle and Hardened Armor. Defensive buffs that I do NOT use include Igneous Shield and Dragon Blood, since I have neither the room on my bars for them, nor the magicka.

One thing I noticed is that even Corrosive Armor does not help much. There is so much DOT damage, at times, that trickles from various sources, Corrosive Armor cannot help with that. I am not sure whether to consider Efficient Purge, however, because simple Whip spam + Ulti + Monster helm kills me very quickly as well, when it's coming from an aggressively specced mag. DK.

Ferocious Leap, empowered, but NON-CRIT: 8K (against heavy armor; I may or may not have been buffed)
Whip: 5K
Skoria: 5K

That's 18K actual damage within the space of 1 second, Leap first, Whip + Skoria 1 second later, and it's fairly typical of some fights. And they say mag. DKs have no burst.

I have no problem with stamblades doing their thing, because I block their burst and they typically cannot sustain such burst, while I counter. I have no problem with mag. sorcs, because wings, contrary to perception, are still a reasonably effective tool for countering them as a medium armor build. If I catch a mag. sorc with their shields down, or if I reflect a frag, I have a chance of killing them quickly. The same with stamblades. Once you catch them you don't usually need a high burst combo to kill them. With a mag. DK this typically does not work. I have a sustained damage build. I need to stay close to the mag. DK for at least a few seconds and be able to eat some damage, while only Bloodthirst and my ulti heals me through it. The problem is, the mag. DK will do more damage. One DOT, three Flame Lashes, and either Grothdarr or Skoria, and I'm dead, or close to it. On the other hand, when I get them to the brink, most of them use the vampire ult. that heals them. You cannot stay close to them. That ult. is the bane of a sustained damage build, much like Malubeth.

I am beginning to sound whiny in my own ears. My main question really has to do with whip, and the amount of sustained damage that mag. DKs can do by essentially just spamming it. What can I do to counter? The guy I talked to said he deals less damage against other stam DKs. The only thing I can think of, if you're an S+B Tremorscale DK let's say, you can block-cast Ransack and put some good pressure on while still being defensive. My main attack is Bloodthirst. I can't block-cast it, because it is a channel.

What can I do while staying with a DW build?

WillhelmBlack · February 2017

You literally just wanna either spam Wrecking Blow or go the heavy, Tremorscale, Viper, Black Rose build and just proc them to death.

Both work brilliantly.

KaiDynasty · February 2017

Hem as MagDk, every class that can outheal my dots is on pair with me, first of all, how a 18k of damage kill you? You should sit at 25/26k of health, so when the mag dk tried to burst you, you already had about 66% of life (and at that % you had to heal).
Second, the burst happened when you didn't blocked (you got 3 type of damage, none of these blocked).
Probably the mDK you were fighting was wearing 5 heavy, but against a dk, your are forced to keep vigor up to counter the dots, and I am sorry for the current meta, but sword and shields are the way to go, especially on a stam dk which have very good synergies with it.
Btw, try to fight a pet sorc in duel, and you will see the difference of pressure he can do on you if compared to another class.
Swap that horrible dw for sword and board, you have to mitigate damage.

fred4 · February 2017

Pet sorcs aren't easy, but the dynamics are different. Sorcs burst. They don't constantly outdamage you. The only time they are unassailable for me is with Imperial Physique, in IC. With any sorc I at least know I can bring them down, if I get close. In truth I probably rely on them messing up their shield rotation, but when they do, they go down quickly. Often times they don't heal so well, whereas mag. DKs do. I just don't have a good game plan against mag. DKs at present.

fred4 · February 2017

The question I forgot to ask: Is this just my build, or do you think mag. DK is a little OP, 1v1?

W0lf_z13 · February 2017

also ... whip got buffed by i believe 8% with the homestead patch ... if the mDK you were talking to hadn't played since before the update and did not know about that buff then that's why it appeared to him to be hitting harder .... mDK's are a bit tricky to play in the beginning... but once they are leveled they are very rewarding

lappas · February 2017

Magdk are very good 1v1 especially against stamina build. But you can also root them! Go behind their back and wb. You might want to use 1hs also and reverberation bash to stun and dawnbreak is a must ofc.

KaiDynasty · February 2017

fred4 wrote: »

The question I forgot to ask: Is this just my build, or do you think mag. DK is a little OP, 1v1?

1 v 1 they are imo very good. But also stam DKs, so it's just progress to make, understand their weakness, PREDICT when they are going to burst you so that you heal over time just buffed with ignoues shield will save you.
I am telling you how to counter my class, I fell stupid.

fred4 · February 2017

My CC is Fossilize, and my aggressive ult is DBoS. I always try different armor sets, one of them being Cyrodiil's Crest for the healing debuff. So I cover some of the same bases that way. What gets me is whip hitting so hard despite 24K+ spell resist. Against my DK, mag. DKs have really high sustained damage, and they have burst as well now with Ferocious Leap (or at least a better option in place of the telegraphed Meteor). And they have high defenses. This is what sets them apart from sorcs (burst, but less sustained damage) and NBs (squishy) for me. Or at least I think that's what it is. I am just trying to wrap my had around how they do so much damage to me and what my gameplan should be.

Minalan · February 2017

fred4 wrote: »

The question I forgot to ask: Is this just my build, or do you think mag. DK is a little OP, 1v1?

MagDK was already ridiculous 1v1 before homestead. But their weakness is and always will be sustain and mobility.

If you can outlast them, their spells are ridiculously expensive. Like insanely ludicrous. That's the balance part.

NBrookus · February 2017

Mag DK is pretty strong in 1v1 -- but so is stam DK. You have access to the same passives. You have the same utility skills, you can just can't cast them as often. Meanwhile stam can stack damage much higher and access to a greater range of weapons and damage skills, plus you have a lot more mobility. If hard pressed, dodge and sprint and kite out of range while vigor is ticking.

Heavy armor mDKs typically play tanky and try to outsustain while applying continuous pressure. Casting hard CCs on cooldown, keeping their opponent in talons and and maneuvering behind them while keeping up DOTS and whip, then trying to time their ult with a lucky skoria proc (if they are wearing it) + hard CC + a low health opponent.

However, if a mDK is non-critting you for 5k whips with you in heavy armor and those kinda of resists, they are either in light armor (i.e. very squishy) or have poor sustain and need to burst you down quickly. A good light armor DK is a monster in duels.