We haven't gotten a lot of information except it's 4v4v4

I hope they have

different size groups (6v6v6 up to 10v10v10)
non CP BG
Ranking system
Premade group system
Pug solo que system
Exclusive BG rewards/vendor

The worst thing they can do is let premade people fight the Pugs...everyone will hate BGs and stay away.

I really wanted a /level toggle like in DAoC where you could stop leveling and go to a level specific "Persistent" Battleground. It was the most fun I've ever had in an MMO. Nothing in any game has come close.

Thidranki, Caledonia... I'm older than most here and hate to parrot the old saying but it still stands. DAoC had the best RVR system to date.

Cyrodil is passingly ok but honestly it could have been so much more. Nothing in Cyrodil helps the Realm as a whole. Would be nice if winning the campaign gave the entire faction a crafting bonus etc...but those perks are Sold for RM so dont fit ZoS model.

I personally don't care for the short style of racketball matches. I'll need to look around. I think Zos is imitating WOW to a fare degree now that Subs and the crown store have given them legs to be dangerous to their clients...

Sylosi wrote: »

jonzhao68 wrote: »

I hope it is for premade groups only. If it isn't, it will be as big of a failure as gw2's pvp scene right now.

Restricting PvP to pre-mades only is a recipe for failure, the vast majority of people in games queue solo/duo exclusively or at least some of the time, which is why pretty much every successful PvP game lets people do that, else you will have no players.

As for GW2 the "PvP scene" has not been healthy for a long time, long before they did the current experiment this season, as a PvP game it is still in a much better state than ESO and Cyrodil.

WoW's arenas required you to make a group before queueing up and worked great. Not sure about many other pvp games but if you are referring to fps or mobas, then that is not a good reference. Fps and mobas are mechanically different and aren't affected by solo queue vs team queue as much.

Yes, gw2's pvp scene has been bad for quite some time. I was not referring to the latest season. GW2 has never had a dedicated 5v5 team queue, it has always been mixed, and they have never provided any incentive for players to play team queue. Trying to make a competitive scene out of a team game that is restricted to solo queue in an mmo will always result in being a joke full of problems.

Also, comparing gw2 pvp to eso pvp currently, you can only compare the large scale modes since eso at the moment has no structured pvp. WvW in gw2 is a dead and neglected wasteland, so eso actually wins there.

All that said, solo queue could possibly work in this 4v4v4 environment since it's more of a battleground than arena, so long as we're all just expecting casual pvp and nothing competitive.

jonzhao68 wrote: »

WoW's arenas required you to make a group before queueing up and worked great. Not sure about many other pvp games but if you are referring to fps or mobas, then that is not a good reference. Fps and mobas are mechanically different and aren't affected by solo queue vs team queue as much.

WoW arenas are a terrible comparison for two reasons, firstly it allows multiple team size 2v2, 3v3 & 5v5, so accommodates a lot more players than having to get a 5 man team in say GW2 or a 4 man team in ESO, secondly it has other instanced PvP that allows players to play in any group size from solo up (random battlegrounds), so players are not barred from all forms of smaller scale PvP if they cannot or do not wish to queue as a full-premade.

This also acts as a feeder mechanism to rated battlegrounds and arenas, lots of players start solo, some find they really enjoy it and want more competitve play, so move on to playing on pre-mades (at least some of the time), if the only option is full team pre-made or GTFO then the game loses out on potential players.

Class based FPS (like Overwatch) and MOBAs are no different, other than that they are far better designed for handling solo/duo players because they provide better tools to communicate and they make creating a decent composition far easier, which is part of the reason why instanced PvP is such a failure in MMORPGs (even WoW), they just do a poor job.

jonzhao68 wrote: »

Yes, gw2's pvp scene has been bad for quite some time. I was not referring to the latest season. GW2 has never had a dedicated 5v5 team queue, it has always been mixed, and they have never provided any incentive for players to play team queue. Trying to make a competitive scene out of a team game that is restricted to solo queue in an mmo will always result in being a joke full of problems.

At the start of the game they had paid tournies that were for teams.

There is no workable "incentive" to queue as a team in a game, that is not how it works, which is why most games do not try and enforce it to the extent of making it the only option. For example if someone plays with their friend, they often want to duo queue in a game there is no "incentive" that would get those two people to queue as a 5 man in the vast majority of cases, same thing for a guy comes home from work wants to play a game for an hour before dinner to relax, most people just want to hop on and play solo in that situation, there is no "incentive" that is going to change that and given the vast majority of players either queue always solo/duo or at least some of the time, then not giving them an option simply means they will play a different game.

GW2's issues as a competitive game have nothing to do with queue types, they had "dynamic" queuing just like actual e-sport games, GW2's issues are the skill level is not high (just like ESO), bad matchmaking, that there are months between balance patches (just like ESO), that they don't fix or even aknowledge game breaking bugs like mid air immobilize, that balance is split over three game modes (just like ESO is split over two) and that visually it is a mess.

jonzhao68 wrote: »

Also, comparing gw2 pvp to eso pvp currently, you can only compare the large scale modes since eso at the moment has no structured pvp. WvW in gw2 is a dead and neglected wasteland, so eso actually wins there.

No, as a PvP game at the moment GW2 is far superior, that ESO lacks PvP content is ESO's failing,

As for WvW a neglected wasteland, I'd say off-peak ESO is more active, primetime GW2 is better, I played last night, queues on 3 maps, I'd also say as *** as some of the meta is in WvW it is still far preferable to the *** you get in ESO like proc sets, perma block, etc, I will say the ESO system of campaigns is much better at handling a declining population than the server based WvW approach though, which is largely why ESO is better if you play off-peak.

Frankly neither WvW or Cyrodil are in a good state.

ManDraKE wrote: »

They also should create somekind of ranking system, something like ELO, so is a friendly system to everyone.

nooo elo/glicko sucks really bad for mmorpgs. look at gw2 pvp. use something simple like win/loss, kdr, adr, and damage/heals per match.

Premades will just figure out the low queue times and "game" the pug queues to thier advantage, tho pugs will be much easier to coordinate on console with in house comms. It will be interesting to see how things go.