Twice Born Star set

Shadowshire · January 2017

autumnsongbird wrote: »

As a crafter, you begin to wonder why even bother wasting time to get to 9 traits. They either break the sets or they aren't that great to begin with. Master writs were like throwing crafters a bone. After testing, less like a bone and more like a aged and raggy chew toy. So sad.

You are quite right. ZOS does not want any crafters to compete significantly selling their products for Gold Pieces as an alternative to buying furnishings from the Crown Store.

With the possible exception of the Twice-Born Star set, each of the other 9-Trait sets are apparently beneficial for at least one Class. However, none of them -- including the Twice Born Star set -- are of any benefit for Sorcerers.

Shadowshire · January 2017

Derra wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

As I wrote earlier in this thread this exploit is doable due to the usage of addons. Without addons this exploit is no possible to execute. The most "simple" solution would be to forbid the usage of addons. ZOS should instead create their own addons to the game that can´t be used to exploit stuff in game.

Addons have nothing to do with that. Uninformed opinion is uninformed.

Then maybe you should re-consider yours. As a programmer who has worked on add-ons, in my humble opinion: if the Twice Born Star set is "exploitable" by using an add-on, then there are probably one or more functions or other features of the EOS Applications Programming Interface that either should not exist at all, or should be allowed only for use by ZOS developers. Then again, perhaps the exploit per se could simply be an unintended consequence of the API design and/or implementation, regardless of whether an exploitable feature is "bugged" or simply not robust. The API design and its features are the creation of and responsibility of the ZOS development team.

Shadowshire · January 2017

willlienellson wrote: »

What isn't exploited in this game?

Seriously, I'm sick and tired of legitimate things being broken while the list of exploitable things seems to grow.

FOR EXAMPLE: On the PTS you can no longer "backbar" Clever Alchemist. So, a 15 second buff once applied will disappear because you swap weapons. .... ....

Say hey, Willie, that has not happened with similar buffs for my Sorcerers, at least. Did you file a Feedback bug report on that, or post one in the forum? That is to say, I don't see how your example is an "exploitable" feature of the software. It's probably either just a bug, or at least an inconsistency in the design of how abilities behave in the course of play.

The intention of "swappable" ability bars as a feature was, on the face of it, simply to allow PCs to exchange weapons and abilities during combat. Accordingly, it does not make sense to include weapons in armor sets. Period. Since shields are considered as armor, a shield equipped on one bar should remain equipped on the other unless the weapon on the other bar requires both hands to wield. As it stands, while using One Hand & Shield abilities on both bars, the PC must equip a shield on each bar, and the respective shields are not required to be identical. Can that be "exploited"??

If ZOS simply stopped considering weapons as components of armor sets, then, at least, we would not have the associated problems, including making an armor set feature(s) "exploitable" for an unfair advantage.

AzuraKin · January 2017

pretty sure tbs isnt bis anymore period.i know i am pulling more dps with nontbs gear then i do with tbs gear.

Shadowshire · January 2017

willlienellson wrote: »

....
The wep damage on the character sheet remained the same but the actual damage was cut in HALF.

After One Tamriel went live, I discovered that one of my characters was being killed when the accumulated damage reported by the "combat recount" feature was less than the total Health of my PC on the "character sheet". The increase in Maximum Health provided by the food buff that I was using was being totally ignored. So I reported that as a bug, but it was not fixed in the next patch and I have no idea whether it has been fixed since.

The_Protagonist · January 2017

Mojmir wrote: »

Can we get a thrice born star set now? Lol

No it's time for tenth-borne star.

The_Protagonist · January 2017

usmcjdking wrote: »

I don't understand how this set is hard to fix. Instead of TBS enabling the ability to pick a second mundus stone, they could easily have it set the second mundus stone ACTIVE meaning when you drop TBS, your second mundus stone simply turns off.

I don't know how the new exploit works, is the OP sure that it has to do with TBS, or something else entirely? The old exploit is gone and I can confirm that on both PTS and Live.

Shadowshire · January 2017

Pangnirtung wrote: »

By the prevailing logic in this thread, eliminate PVP because it is broken.

I am 100% fine with that.

So am I.

Something that every game developer should recognize: Player-vs-Player is an entirely different game than Player-vs-NPC .... even if game developers start to use AI for their NPCs. Doing that would make "PvE" games Natural Intellect-vs-Artificial Intellect. We know what happened to Chess, right?

A player's reflexes can and do make a difference in combat, and network transmission latency, as well. But do NPCs with AI have reflexes?? NPC Archers fire their bows with machine-like regularity because it is a machine that executes the script for their actions.

Baconlad · January 2017

I....i do not understand. Players here claiming TBS isn't BiS anymore? What happened? I have scoured patch notes looking for an explanation and cannot find one. Also if not TBS than WTF is BiS for mag/ stam dps numbers in PVE? I understand PvP to be different do not need help in that area.

SublimeSparo · January 2017

Baconlad wrote: »

I....i do not understand. Players here claiming TBS isn't BiS anymore? What happened? I have scoured patch notes looking for an explanation and cannot find one. Also if not TBS than WTF is BiS for mag/ stam dps numbers in PVE? I understand PvP to be different do not need help in that area.

Tbs was good because the shadow mundus and other sources of chd stacked multiplicitly with the the 30% chd major force from aggressive war horn,
Major force is changed to additive 15% chd, so is basically gutted of it's former glory, and in high crit damage builds (ie typically ones using tbs and shadow mundus) becomes half as effective.
Bis for mag will likely be burning spellweave
Bis for stam likely to be twice fanged serpent (assuming it's working correctly)

Elyu · January 2017

Wow the rage on this thread is real.

@Shadowshire the exploit referred to enabled people (on PC at least) to gain multiple mundus stone boons (more than 2), without having TBS equipped. TBS was merely the set used to gain this exploit.

The reason OP is stating for a need for the set to be buffed:

The mos common way to use this set (on live) is with thief and shadow mundus stones, with minor + major crit bonuses to gain max damage in trial setups.
Any other use would ultimately be sub par to using any other set.

With homestead patch, the major and minor crit bonuses are being changed (nerfed) so that stacked with other crit bonuses total damage will now be much less than on live.

MY SOLUTION:

In order for TBS to retain it's (only) use as a BiS trial damage set, the SET needs to be changed to balance out the nerf to crit bonuses.

TBS on live: allows 2 mundus stones to be active at once.

How TBS SHOULD work in homestead: The set, once crafted can be attuned to a mundus thus equipping the set means the character wearing it now has 2 active mundus, but if set is removed mundus reverts to one.
Set is attuned by: equipping, activating a mundus. Thus set can be RE-ATTUNED at any point.
Re-equipping the set re-activates the mundus the set is attuned to.

In addition to the above: the set also provides a % bonus to the mundus it is attuned to; THUS USING TBS WITH THIEF AND SHADOW WITH FULL TRIAL CRIT BUFFS PROVIDES THE SAME BENEFIT TO STACKED CRIT DAMAGE AS ON LIVE SERVER

@Alcast

AzuraKin · January 2017

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

I....i do not understand. Players here claiming TBS isn't BiS anymore? What happened? I have scoured patch notes looking for an explanation and cannot find one. Also if not TBS than WTF is BiS for mag/ stam dps numbers in PVE? I understand PvP to be different do not need help in that area.

Tbs was good because the shadow mundus and other sources of chd stacked multiplicitly with the the 30% chd major force from aggressive war horn,
Major force is changed to additive 15% chd, so is basically gutted of it's former glory, and in high crit damage builds (ie typically ones using tbs and shadow mundus) becomes half as effective.
Bis for mag will likely be burning spellweave
Bis for stam likely to be twice fanged serpent (assuming it's working correctly)

please explain to me how burnign spell weave will be bis? 8s uptime max out of every 12s, which is impossible to achieve as even if you have 10 dots going at any given time, you will not and i repeat will not have an 80% chance for it to proc on cooldown, rather it will just be 10 chances for it to proc at 8% chance. this in all acutality, means at best it is on par with julianos.

visionality · January 2017

@Alcast - How can you seriously propose to remove the central trait of a useful set just because some people exploit a glitch on armor-swapping and Zenimax disables an API function?

Shouldn't the right proposal be: Track the double-mundus-users, check whether they use TBS and if not ban them?

And while being at it: It should be easy as pie for Zenimax to program a cheat-detector that randomly checks players for their sets, buffs and skills and ring an alarm when those things don't fit together.

Izaki · January 2017

AzuraKin wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

I....i do not understand. Players here claiming TBS isn't BiS anymore? What happened? I have scoured patch notes looking for an explanation and cannot find one. Also if not TBS than WTF is BiS for mag/ stam dps numbers in PVE? I understand PvP to be different do not need help in that area.

Tbs was good because the shadow mundus and other sources of chd stacked multiplicitly with the the 30% chd major force from aggressive war horn,
Major force is changed to additive 15% chd, so is basically gutted of it's former glory, and in high crit damage builds (ie typically ones using tbs and shadow mundus) becomes half as effective.
Bis for mag will likely be burning spellweave
Bis for stam likely to be twice fanged serpent (assuming it's working correctly)

please explain to me how burnign spell weave will be bis? 8s uptime max out of every 12s, which is impossible to achieve as even if you have 10 dots going at any given time, you will not and i repeat will not have an 80% chance for it to proc on cooldown, rather it will just be 10 chances for it to proc at 8% chance. this in all acutality, means at best it is on par with julianos.

50% uptime on BSW is easily achievable with Fire Blockade alone. At 50% uptime its the same as Julianos. Max uptime is 66%. The proc has 20% chance to proc off fire spells. Now do your maths.

BSW is best in slot, then comes Scathing Mage.

danno8 · January 2017

They just need to fix it with better coding.

If they change it, people will just find a way to have the permanent 50% buff on all the time without wearing the set. Better to build on what they have learned rather than start from scratch and have to begin the "fixing" process all over again.

SublimeSparo · January 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

I....i do not understand. Players here claiming TBS isn't BiS anymore? What happened? I have scoured patch notes looking for an explanation and cannot find one. Also if not TBS than WTF is BiS for mag/ stam dps numbers in PVE? I understand PvP to be different do not need help in that area.

Tbs was good because the shadow mundus and other sources of chd stacked multiplicitly with the the 30% chd major force from aggressive war horn,
Major force is changed to additive 15% chd, so is basically gutted of it's former glory, and in high crit damage builds (ie typically ones using tbs and shadow mundus) becomes half as effective.
Bis for mag will likely be burning spellweave
Bis for stam likely to be twice fanged serpent (assuming it's working correctly)

please explain to me how burnign spell weave will be bis? 8s uptime max out of every 12s, which is impossible to achieve as even if you have 10 dots going at any given time, you will not and i repeat will not have an 80% chance for it to proc on cooldown, rather it will just be 10 chances for it to proc at 8% chance. this in all acutality, means at best it is on par with julianos.

50% uptime on BSW is easily achievable with Fire Blockade alone. At 50% uptime its the same as Julianos. Max uptime is 66%. The proc has 20% chance to proc off fire spells. Now do your maths.

BSW is best in slot, then comes Scathing Mage.

There's a also a spell damage bonus as the 4th trait, so at 50% uptime you have more spell damage than julianos, but less crit but due to the crit nerfs raw damage will be better.
Then thetes also that fact bsw guarantee's procs of the burning status effect increasing the dsmage of blockade by 20% and letting force pulse chain to nearby targets

xblackroxe · January 2017

Shadowshire wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

As I wrote earlier in this thread this exploit is doable due to the usage of addons. Without addons this exploit is no possible to execute. The most "simple" solution would be to forbid the usage of addons. ZOS should instead create their own addons to the game that can´t be used to exploit stuff in game.

Addons have nothing to do with that. Uninformed opinion is uninformed.

Then maybe you should re-consider yours. As a programmer who has worked on add-ons, in my humble opinion: if the Twice Born Star set is "exploitable" by using an add-on, then there are probably one or more functions or other features of the EOS Applications Programming Interface that either should not exist at all, or should be allowed only for use by ZOS developers. Then again, perhaps the exploit per se could simply be an unintended consequence of the API design and/or implementation, regardless of whether an exploitable feature is "bugged" or simply not robust. The API design and its features are the creation of and responsibility of the ZOS development team.

Good for you mister programmer.

The problem though isnt the addon. The problem is taking of tbs pieces and in certain situations keeping the 2nd mundus.

Derra · January 2017

Shadowshire wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

As I wrote earlier in this thread this exploit is doable due to the usage of addons. Without addons this exploit is no possible to execute. The most "simple" solution would be to forbid the usage of addons. ZOS should instead create their own addons to the game that can´t be used to exploit stuff in game.

Addons have nothing to do with that. Uninformed opinion is uninformed.

Then maybe you should re-consider yours. As a programmer who has worked on add-ons, in my humble opinion: if the Twice Born Star set is "exploitable" by using an add-on, then there are probably one or more functions or other features of the EOS Applications Programming Interface that either should not exist at all, or should be allowed only for use by ZOS developers. Then again, perhaps the exploit per se could simply be an unintended consequence of the API design and/or implementation, regardless of whether an exploitable feature is "bugged" or simply not robust. The API design and its features are the creation of and responsibility of the ZOS development team.

This exploit is doable with 0 addons active. That´s what my reply was aimed at.

AzuraKin wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

I....i do not understand. Players here claiming TBS isn't BiS anymore? What happened? I have scoured patch notes looking for an explanation and cannot find one. Also if not TBS than WTF is BiS for mag/ stam dps numbers in PVE? I understand PvP to be different do not need help in that area.

Tbs was good because the shadow mundus and other sources of chd stacked multiplicitly with the the 30% chd major force from aggressive war horn,
Major force is changed to additive 15% chd, so is basically gutted of it's former glory, and in high crit damage builds (ie typically ones using tbs and shadow mundus) becomes half as effective.
Bis for mag will likely be burning spellweave
Bis for stam likely to be twice fanged serpent (assuming it's working correctly)

please explain to me how burnign spell weave will be bis? 8s uptime max out of every 12s, which is impossible to achieve as even if you have 10 dots going at any given time, you will not and i repeat will not have an 80% chance for it to proc on cooldown, rather it will just be 10 chances for it to proc at 8% chance. this in all acutality, means at best it is on par with julianos.

you have to try really hard to achieve bsw uptimes < 55% from my personal experience.

VelociousLegend · January 2017

This would be a welcomed change for TBS. All the countless times I have accidentally unequipped one of the set pieces only to forget to go back and pickup my 2nd mundus -_-

Witar · January 2017

2x will be ok, 50% is way too low to be considered viable.

Mr_Apollo · January 2017

Please do rewrite the set...you fix it, you dont remove it. Removing it would deal more trouble than reworking it.

Anhedonie · January 2017

This change is long overdue.
If developers can't fix it, then change it. Well, they use that strategy all the time. Mostly.

feyreisa12 · January 2017

Leave TBS alone. And definitely do NOT make the mundus stones perma-selected to a set. One of the chief benefits now, is being able to multi-purpose a TBS set by changing up mundus stones at will.

If someone is cheating/exploiting, go after those someones.

Asardes · January 2017

I see many people lately asking for crafted TBS weapons on guild chats. Is that a legit build? From what I know the set was bugged at some point, removing the 2nd mundus if you switched bars, even if you had 5 pieces on both. So people wore that set only on body. Is that bug still active?

Liofa · January 2017

Asardes wrote: »

I see many people lately asking for crafted TBS weapons on guild chats. Is that a legit build? From what I know the set was bugged at some point, removing the 2nd mundus if you switched bars, even if you had 5 pieces on both. So people wore that set only on body. Is that bug still active?

My tried it on dual destro magblade . Both staffs are the 5th piece of TBS . I didn't lose second mundus . I am 99% sure it still works . I don't know if it works with dual wield though .

Asardes · January 2017

Liofa wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

I see many people lately asking for crafted TBS weapons on guild chats. Is that a legit build? From what I know the set was bugged at some point, removing the 2nd mundus if you switched bars, even if you had 5 pieces on both. So people wore that set only on body. Is that bug still active?

My tried it on dual destro magblade . Both staffs are the 5th piece of TBS . I didn't lose second mundus . I am 99% sure it still works . I don't know if it works with dual wield though .

Well, that means it was fixed. For now at least. From what I see in the patch notes it seems they will also fix the other sets that had a similar problem - losing the 5th piece bonus when you switched bars.

Darnathian · January 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

I....i do not understand. Players here claiming TBS isn't BiS anymore? What happened? I have scoured patch notes looking for an explanation and cannot find one. Also if not TBS than WTF is BiS for mag/ stam dps numbers in PVE? I understand PvP to be different do not need help in that area.

Tbs was good because the shadow mundus and other sources of chd stacked multiplicitly with the the 30% chd major force from aggressive war horn,
Major force is changed to additive 15% chd, so is basically gutted of it's former glory, and in high crit damage builds (ie typically ones using tbs and shadow mundus) becomes half as effective.
Bis for mag will likely be burning spellweave
Bis for stam likely to be twice fanged serpent (assuming it's working correctly)

please explain to me how burnign spell weave will be bis? 8s uptime max out of every 12s, which is impossible to achieve as even if you have 10 dots going at any given time, you will not and i repeat will not have an 80% chance for it to proc on cooldown, rather it will just be 10 chances for it to proc at 8% chance. this in all acutality, means at best it is on par with julianos.

50% uptime on BSW is easily achievable with Fire Blockade alone. At 50% uptime its the same as Julianos. Max uptime is 66%. The proc has 20% chance to proc off fire spells. Now do your maths.

BSW is best in slot, then comes Scathing Mage.

Would bsw and scathing mage work in pvp? Then 2 heavy 2 piece set?

Asardes · January 2017

Darnathian wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

I....i do not understand. Players here claiming TBS isn't BiS anymore? What happened? I have scoured patch notes looking for an explanation and cannot find one. Also if not TBS than WTF is BiS for mag/ stam dps numbers in PVE? I understand PvP to be different do not need help in that area.

Tbs was good because the shadow mundus and other sources of chd stacked multiplicitly with the the 30% chd major force from aggressive war horn,
Major force is changed to additive 15% chd, so is basically gutted of it's former glory, and in high crit damage builds (ie typically ones using tbs and shadow mundus) becomes half as effective.
Bis for mag will likely be burning spellweave
Bis for stam likely to be twice fanged serpent (assuming it's working correctly)

please explain to me how burnign spell weave will be bis? 8s uptime max out of every 12s, which is impossible to achieve as even if you have 10 dots going at any given time, you will not and i repeat will not have an 80% chance for it to proc on cooldown, rather it will just be 10 chances for it to proc at 8% chance. this in all acutality, means at best it is on par with julianos.

50% uptime on BSW is easily achievable with Fire Blockade alone. At 50% uptime its the same as Julianos. Max uptime is 66%. The proc has 20% chance to proc off fire spells. Now do your maths.

BSW is best in slot, then comes Scathing Mage.

Would bsw and scathing mage work in pvp? Then 2 heavy 2 piece set?

BSW works in PvP but the uptime is probably much lower because move out or purge fire based DoTs. I've farmed with people looking for sturdy and impenetrable BSW pieces so some are definitely using it for PvP. SM is probably not optimal for PVP since people rarely run very high crit builds there - they focus on boosting recovery and spell damage. I'm running the set in PVE on my sorc though, paired with 5 Julianos and 1 Kena head and the uptime is pretty good at 71-74% crit chance. I noticed it sometimes procs again right after the buff expires so it has no cooldown. In AoE fights the uptime is probably full, if you use the proper skills - it procs of LA/HA, frag, pulsar, curse, force pulse, first tick of DoTs. So if you rely on non-DOT abilities the total buff is probably close to that provided on BSW on a more DoT heavy rotation.

Darnathian · January 2017

Asardes wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

I....i do not understand. Players here claiming TBS isn't BiS anymore? What happened? I have scoured patch notes looking for an explanation and cannot find one. Also if not TBS than WTF is BiS for mag/ stam dps numbers in PVE? I understand PvP to be different do not need help in that area.

Tbs was good because the shadow mundus and other sources of chd stacked multiplicitly with the the 30% chd major force from aggressive war horn,
Major force is changed to additive 15% chd, so is basically gutted of it's former glory, and in high crit damage builds (ie typically ones using tbs and shadow mundus) becomes half as effective.
Bis for mag will likely be burning spellweave
Bis for stam likely to be twice fanged serpent (assuming it's working correctly)

please explain to me how burnign spell weave will be bis? 8s uptime max out of every 12s, which is impossible to achieve as even if you have 10 dots going at any given time, you will not and i repeat will not have an 80% chance for it to proc on cooldown, rather it will just be 10 chances for it to proc at 8% chance. this in all acutality, means at best it is on par with julianos.

50% uptime on BSW is easily achievable with Fire Blockade alone. At 50% uptime its the same as Julianos. Max uptime is 66%. The proc has 20% chance to proc off fire spells. Now do your maths.

BSW is best in slot, then comes Scathing Mage.

Would bsw and scathing mage work in pvp? Then 2 heavy 2 piece set?

BSW works in PvP but the uptime is probably much lower because move out or purge fire based DoTs. I've farmed with people looking for sturdy and impenetrable BSW pieces so some are definitely using it for PvP. SM is probably not optimal for PVP since people rarely run very high crit builds there - they focus on boosting recovery and spell damage. I'm running the set in PVE on my sorc though, paired with 5 Julianos and 1 Kena head and the uptime is pretty good at 71-74% crit chance. I noticed it sometimes procs again right after the buff expires so it has no cooldown. In AoE fights the uptime is probably full, if you use the proper skills - it procs of LA/HA, frag, pulsar, curse, force pulse, first tick of DoTs. So if you rely on non-DOT abilities the total buff is probably close to that provided on BSW on a more DoT heavy rotation.

k. Thank you for feedback. Definitely looking at running BSW on my Dark Elf DK. Still trying to figure out what to run with it.

Kas · January 2017

Kazya wrote: »

I must admit I am kinda concerned... what is the exploit? Reason I ask is simply that I was told to get the set for one of my characters, and did so. Have been using it while levelling her skills etc, though I was honestly not aware of any exploit so is concerned as I would not want to be part of soemthing like that.

exploit a bug so that you keep the 2nd mundus after taking the set off. won't happen if you play normally and take it off (second mundus disappears), never an exploit while still wearing it. you're not in danger.

on topic:
i don't really care. remove the set, change it, keep as is. to the best of my knowledge the major evasion from hist bark is also exploitable right now, so I'd say TBS cannot be blamed alone.

why not just scan chars for feasibility on login/zone change/whatever. remove any invalid bonus, log the occurrence. investigate repeated cases and ban.