PTS Feedback Thread for Dragonknight Balance Improvements

Stamden · January 2017

There are a few "useful" stam DK skills and passive, but the problem is that the setup lacks any uniqueness. Stam Sorcs are super mobile with great resource management, Stam NBs have high burst potential and ganking ability, and Stam Templars are getting a lot of changes this patch that will give them a fun playstyle.

What is special about Stam DK? Nothing really. This setup does not have an identity like the above ones. It is the more reliant on all-class abilities than all the other Stam setups. All we have for class abiltiies is Venomous and Noxious, both of which are pretty irrelevant in PvP because DoT are just extremely weak in Cyro.

There is a complete lack of useful Stam DK morphs and that is it's biggest problem.

To Devs: Just cause we are talking about Stam DKs at the moment, don't for a second thing mDKs are alright right now either. They still need tons of work (see sig).

pieratsos · January 2017

Just because the way you play ur stam DK doesnt utilize class abilities it doesnt mean they are useless for stamDKs. If you are playing a medium armor 2h/bow build with burst and mobility dont complain why ur class doesnt help you. You are not a stamblade. Thats not how ur class is designed.
All stamina builds rely mostly on non class abilities, specifically when they are in medium armor and they dont have much magicka for utility. Stam sorcs which is the strongest stam class only use streak, hurricane, dark deal, surge and overload. Maybe bound armor too. And these are for all the possible normal stam sorc builds u can play. There are builds that will only use 2-3 class abilities.
DK class abilities that are frequently used on stam DK builds are take flight, corrosive, claw, breath, spiked armor, igneous, molten weapons, fossilize, scales and next update gdb also becomes viable since it will give minor endurance and minor vitality. If anything stam DKs have more options to pick from their class than stam sorcs. Getting a stam whip isnt gonna make the class feel more "unique". The only change that makes sense and can help stam DK playstyle is inferno to be an AOE and one morph to do poison dmg with whatever secondary effects it may have and this will still not help ur medium armor 2h/bow build cause again, builds like that dont synergise with the design of the class.

Anw, the uniqueness issues of stamDK isnt due to the lack of abilities but because of the current state of PVP and all the broken setups u can come up with. When a nightblade can put on troll king and some other broken heavy armor tanky set while using vitality pots and starts facetanking people like a DK or a DK puts on procs and sets that give ridiculous amounts of dmg and starts one shotting people like a nightblade then thats an issue with broken game mechanics and the state of PVP. Stamina balance in general is out of control in PVP. Stamblades and stamsorcs just feel more unique cause the design of their class works very well with the current state of PVP.

MaxwellC · January 2017

@pieratsos
You don't seem to understand what people are getting it when it comes to Stam DK. First of all 10k Magicka is enough to gain access to your utilities that you'd use (two abilities maybe 3) since you're not consistently using magic it's fine. Secondly this class isn't about wearing heavy armor as it seems you're eluding to but you pointed out Inferno AoE; Why was that given to sorcerers whose passives benefit the DPS role so much?

Dks who play PvP rarely use Igneous weapons I mean make that's literally 4.5k without reduction if not 4.6k magicka lol. If you need Major brutality well you go to rally or flying dagger, heck even potions!

Take Flight is a garbage ultimate and was only used for being a unique ability that allows you to fly on to keeps, it's easily beaten by dawn breaker of smiting, onslaught, rend, arrow barrage,etc.

Venom Claw and Noxious breath are both DoTs which are very unfavorable in PvP as you can heal through them, shield through them, and purify/purge it.
Noxious breath is good for the debuff but try using that ability in a fight and watch it miss more than half the time even in close range. You can even watch Fengrush who was annoyed by how unreliable it is missing at close range.

Scales is unreliable AF and many people through-out this entire thread has even stated that it DOES NOT ALWAYS REFLECT. My goodness man look through the thread before posting every ability DKs have to know which functions correctly or not.

Dragon's blood still costs over 4.4k magicka without reductions and who would even bother to use that ability during a fight lol? Now you can only use igneous shield or fossilize instead of using both when needed, what happens if you use hardened armor and that goes down is that a "Oh well there it goes" moment for you?

Regarding Flames of Oblivion there is no need to make it poison damage or the other morph whatever you're saying. The ability just needs to scale off of Max resource/damage. I'm sure poison would be great for us but I'd rather cauterize go into a PBAoE Heal for those who want to heal on their Mag DK. Flames of Oblivion would also need to increase the damage done by DoT that are DK specific by X percent or increase some form of damage.

Lastly there is no synergy with Heavy armor and DK, the only thing that people love to say is the healing passive and the block passive (which is getting nerf'd or corrected since we weren't really receiving that amount to begin with lmao). The only passive that truly aligns with Stam DK as a tank would be the damaged blocked and that's it.

Stam sorcs abilities as you listed also benefit them with passives such as implosion, Power stone (reduce your ultimate cost), unholy knowledge (reduces cost of mag/stam), Energized, Expert Mage, and Capacitor. All these passives right there is what makes stam sorcs pretty good with whatever setup they tend to rock (PvP wise).

Stamblades/Stam sorcs feel unique because their class aids them in killing enemies and their abilities make it much easier to do so.

I do not follow the meta heck I even made a build video already that shows that I do not follow the meta I wear 5 Medium 2 Heavy no proc sets just maelstrom weapons (2H/bow although the bow is currently a decisive masters bow). I wear 5 Hunding + 5 Automaton. The reason why we do not feel unique is because every other class has something that benefits them completely while also benefiting group play (PvE) while Stam DKs don't have anything other than a passive that buffs minor brutality for everyone + Magma shell. We want to provide AoEs, we want to buff our allies, and we want to have skills that are fun to use instead of relying on 90% weapon skills/ultimates.

MaxwellC · January 2017

I'm also tired of heavy attacking animation cancelling for my kills. I can't apply pressure with my AoE since that was stolen and as such I've consistently have to keep Heavy attack animation cancel abilities to get kills. So ofc I feel there is no uniqueness especially in the class skill category but this could all be solved is we would get new abilities as this game came out almost 3 years ago. 3 years ago soon and we only received weapon ultimates... I mean the skill lines like undaunted came later I think towards 2015 but still I want some new class skills man.

PandaIsAPotato · January 2017

MaxwellC wrote: »

I'm also tired of heavy attacking animation cancelling for my kills. I can't apply pressure with my AoE since that was stolen and as such I've consistently have to keep Heavy attack animation cancel abilities to get kills. So ofc I feel there is no uniqueness especially in the class skill category but this could all be solved is we would get new abilities as this game came out almost 3 years ago. 3 years ago soon and we only received weapon ultimates... I mean the skill lines like undaunted came later I think towards 2015 but still I want some new class skills man.

You say that like you wouldn't be heavy attack canceling on any other stam class, and if you aren't then you're just a baddie. With wings being destroyed the only classes a Stam DK should truly struggle with is Sorc now, we have everything we need to fight every other class, yes we don't have a spammable class ability, so what. If they gave stam DKs a stam variant of whip there'd be absolutely no reason to play mDK at all.

I used Leap, Igneous, Standard, Corrosive Armor, Fossilize, Venomous Claws, Cinder Storm, Molten Armaments. That's a ton of class skills to be using on a class that evidently doesn't feel unique, sure, we have to use weapon skills for a vast majority of our damage but that's because a vast majority of our survival comes from class skills. You don't even have to use Rally on a Stam DK if you really don't want to, throw a ton of CP at healing received/taken and Igneous Vigor will make up for the loss of Rally.

pieratsos · January 2017

MaxwellC wrote: »

@pieratsos
You don't seem to understand what people are getting it when it comes to Stam DK. First of all 10k Magicka is enough to gain access to your utilities that you'd use (two abilities maybe 3) since you're not consistently using magic it's fine. Secondly this class isn't about wearing heavy armor as it seems you're eluding to but you pointed out Inferno AoE; Why was that given to sorcerers whose passives benefit the DPS role so much?

Dks who play PvP rarely use Igneous weapons I mean make that's literally 4.5k without reduction if not 4.6k magicka lol. If you need Major brutality well you go to rally or flying dagger, heck even potions!

Take Flight is a garbage ultimate and was only used for being a unique ability that allows you to fly on to keeps, it's easily beaten by dawn breaker of smiting, onslaught, rend, arrow barrage,etc.

Venom Claw and Noxious breath are both DoTs which are very unfavorable in PvP as you can heal through them, shield through them, and purify/purge it.
Noxious breath is good for the debuff but try using that ability in a fight and watch it miss more than half the time even in close range. You can even watch Fengrush who was annoyed by how unreliable it is missing at close range.

Scales is unreliable AF and many people through-out this entire thread has even stated that it DOES NOT ALWAYS REFLECT. My goodness man look through the thread before posting every ability DKs have to know which functions correctly or not.

Dragon's blood still costs over 4.4k magicka without reductions and who would even bother to use that ability during a fight lol? Now you can only use igneous shield or fossilize instead of using both when needed, what happens if you use hardened armor and that goes down is that a "Oh well there it goes" moment for you?

Regarding Flames of Oblivion there is no need to make it poison damage or the other morph whatever you're saying. The ability just needs to scale off of Max resource/damage. I'm sure poison would be great for us but I'd rather cauterize go into a PBAoE Heal for those who want to heal on their Mag DK. Flames of Oblivion would also need to increase the damage done by DoT that are DK specific by X percent or increase some form of damage.

Lastly there is no synergy with Heavy armor and DK, the only thing that people love to say is the healing passive and the block passive (which is getting nerf'd or corrected since we weren't really receiving that amount to begin with lmao). The only passive that truly aligns with Stam DK as a tank would be the damaged blocked and that's it.

Stam sorcs abilities as you listed also benefit them with passives such as implosion, Power stone (reduce your ultimate cost), unholy knowledge (reduces cost of mag/stam), Energized, Expert Mage, and Capacitor. All these passives right there is what makes stam sorcs pretty good with whatever setup they tend to rock (PvP wise).

Stamblades/Stam sorcs feel unique because their class aids them in killing enemies and their abilities make it much easier to do so.

I do not follow the meta heck I even made a build video already that shows that I do not follow the meta I wear 5 Medium 2 Heavy no proc sets just maelstrom weapons (2H/bow although the bow is currently a decisive masters bow). I wear 5 Hunding + 5 Automaton. The reason why we do not feel unique is because every other class has something that benefits them completely while also benefiting group play (PvE) while Stam DKs don't have anything other than a passive that buffs minor brutality for everyone + Magma shell. We want to provide AoEs, we want to buff our allies, and we want to have skills that are fun to use instead of relying on 90% weapon skills/ultimates.

You are the one who doesnt seem to get it. So go and read again the last paragraph i wrote. All you do is explaining how each ability isnt good because it doesnt work with the meta but this is the exact thing that i said. The design of the DK doesnt work well with current state of PVP and is certainly not working well with ur build. Just because DOTs are not the meta it doesnt mean they are useless as abilities. They just dont work well in this current state of PVP. I told you make inferno a stamDK tool with secondary effects that help the DK playstyle like buff dots. But its still not going to be useful on a 2h/bow medium build that relies on burst and mobility cause simply the class isnt designed for that. And all classes use dawnbreaker. Enough with this.
And enough with this crap about abilities being useless cause they cost a ton of magicka for ur medium armor stambuild with no magicka sustain. This is not an argument. This applies for ALL classes. Streak costs even more magicka. Does that make it useless? Do you really believe that only DK abilities cost a lot and for every other stamina class their utility abilities are free? Like seriously? Go play a medium armor stamsorc with 10k magicka and tell me how many times you can streak before running out of magicka. If you want to have more utility from magicka abilities put on heavy armor or use drinks.
Just because you dont follow the meta it doesnt mean that the class should be balanced around ur build. You have utility abilities in ur class. Major mending, armor buffs, dots, passives for healing, abilities for healing, passives for snares, blocking, resistances, sustain. Do they need help? Sure they do. I said it myself and inferno will help with that. But its obvious that the class isnt designed for a bursty 2h/bow medium armor build. So dont expect the class that is designed around DOTs and taking dmg to help you with a build designed around burst and mobility. You want to play like that then reroll a stamblade or stamsorc that will help with that. What exactly did u expect when u made a medium armor 2h/bow build with zero magicka sustain? Of course you are not gonna have a use for most abilities and passives of the DK class on a build like that. Thats ur fault.

gefstyle · January 2017

Dont know if was mentioned but please fix the ignious shield and buff fragmented shield. Currently after casting ignious or other morphs are beeing replaced with a lower one if another in range player casts it. Thanks

Lokey0024 · January 2017

I wrote a long list of stuff but just erased all of it.

Risk/reward is crap if the reward is still crap.

You did some good work, now make your game badass to play so people stay or comeback.

Xvorg · January 2017

PandaIsAPotato wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

I'm also tired of heavy attacking animation cancelling for my kills. I can't apply pressure with my AoE since that was stolen and as such I've consistently have to keep Heavy attack animation cancel abilities to get kills. So ofc I feel there is no uniqueness especially in the class skill category but this could all be solved is we would get new abilities as this game came out almost 3 years ago. 3 years ago soon and we only received weapon ultimates... I mean the skill lines like undaunted came later I think towards 2015 but still I want some new class skills man.

You say that like you wouldn't be heavy attack canceling on any other stam class, and if you aren't then you're just a baddie. With wings being destroyed the only classes a Stam DK should truly struggle with is Sorc now, we have everything we need to fight every other class, yes we don't have a spammable class ability, so what. If they gave stam DKs a stam variant of whip there'd be absolutely no reason to play mDK at all.

I used Leap, Igneous, Standard, Corrosive Armor, Fossilize, Venomous Claws, Cinder Storm, Molten Armaments. That's a ton of class skills to be using on a class that evidently doesn't feel unique, sure, we have to use weapon skills for a vast majority of our damage but that's because a vast majority of our survival comes from class skills. You don't even have to use Rally on a Stam DK if you really don't want to, throw a ton of CP at healing received/taken and Igneous Vigor will make up for the loss of Rally.

Those skills are REALLY EXPENSIVE for a stamDK (except those that scale off stam). You have 5 slots, how would you fill them? Why would you use molten armaments if you can use Rally which comes with a strong heal? Or throwing dagger, that applies debuffs? Standard? Really? Do you know how much does it cost to get 250 ulti? Leap? Sorry, why would you use Leap? Cinder storm? A skill whose utility for a satmblade is a saner that can be avoided dodge rolling?

Xvorg · January 2017

pieratsos wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@pieratsos
You don't seem to understand what people are getting it when it comes to Stam DK. First of all 10k Magicka is enough to gain access to your utilities that you'd use (two abilities maybe 3) since you're not consistently using magic it's fine. Secondly this class isn't about wearing heavy armor as it seems you're eluding to but you pointed out Inferno AoE; Why was that given to sorcerers whose passives benefit the DPS role so much?

Dks who play PvP rarely use Igneous weapons I mean make that's literally 4.5k without reduction if not 4.6k magicka lol. If you need Major brutality well you go to rally or flying dagger, heck even potions!

Take Flight is a garbage ultimate and was only used for being a unique ability that allows you to fly on to keeps, it's easily beaten by dawn breaker of smiting, onslaught, rend, arrow barrage,etc.

Venom Claw and Noxious breath are both DoTs which are very unfavorable in PvP as you can heal through them, shield through them, and purify/purge it.
Noxious breath is good for the debuff but try using that ability in a fight and watch it miss more than half the time even in close range. You can even watch Fengrush who was annoyed by how unreliable it is missing at close range.

Scales is unreliable AF and many people through-out this entire thread has even stated that it DOES NOT ALWAYS REFLECT. My goodness man look through the thread before posting every ability DKs have to know which functions correctly or not.

Dragon's blood still costs over 4.4k magicka without reductions and who would even bother to use that ability during a fight lol? Now you can only use igneous shield or fossilize instead of using both when needed, what happens if you use hardened armor and that goes down is that a "Oh well there it goes" moment for you?

Regarding Flames of Oblivion there is no need to make it poison damage or the other morph whatever you're saying. The ability just needs to scale off of Max resource/damage. I'm sure poison would be great for us but I'd rather cauterize go into a PBAoE Heal for those who want to heal on their Mag DK. Flames of Oblivion would also need to increase the damage done by DoT that are DK specific by X percent or increase some form of damage.

Lastly there is no synergy with Heavy armor and DK, the only thing that people love to say is the healing passive and the block passive (which is getting nerf'd or corrected since we weren't really receiving that amount to begin with lmao). The only passive that truly aligns with Stam DK as a tank would be the damaged blocked and that's it.

Stam sorcs abilities as you listed also benefit them with passives such as implosion, Power stone (reduce your ultimate cost), unholy knowledge (reduces cost of mag/stam), Energized, Expert Mage, and Capacitor. All these passives right there is what makes stam sorcs pretty good with whatever setup they tend to rock (PvP wise).

Stamblades/Stam sorcs feel unique because their class aids them in killing enemies and their abilities make it much easier to do so.

I do not follow the meta heck I even made a build video already that shows that I do not follow the meta I wear 5 Medium 2 Heavy no proc sets just maelstrom weapons (2H/bow although the bow is currently a decisive masters bow). I wear 5 Hunding + 5 Automaton. The reason why we do not feel unique is because every other class has something that benefits them completely while also benefiting group play (PvE) while Stam DKs don't have anything other than a passive that buffs minor brutality for everyone + Magma shell. We want to provide AoEs, we want to buff our allies, and we want to have skills that are fun to use instead of relying on 90% weapon skills/ultimates.

You are the one who doesnt seem to get it. So go and read again the last paragraph i wrote. All you do is explaining how each ability isnt good because it doesnt work with the meta but this is the exact thing that i said. The design of the DK doesnt work well with current state of PVP and is certainly not working well with ur build. Just because DOTs are not the meta it doesnt mean they are useless as abilities. They just dont work well in this current state of PVP. I told you make inferno a stamDK tool with secondary effects that help the DK playstyle like buff dots. But its still not going to be useful on a 2h/bow medium build that relies on burst and mobility cause simply the class isnt designed for that. And all classes use dawnbreaker. Enough with this.
And enough with this crap about abilities being useless cause they cost a ton of magicka for ur medium armor stambuild with no magicka sustain. This is not an argument. This applies for ALL classes. Streak costs even more magicka. Does that make it useless? Do you really believe that only DK abilities cost a lot and for every other stamina class their utility abilities are free? Like seriously? Go play a medium armor stamsorc with 10k magicka and tell me how many times you can streak before running out of magicka. If you want to have more utility from magicka abilities put on heavy armor or use drinks.
Just because you dont follow the meta it doesnt mean that the class should be balanced around ur build. You have utility abilities in ur class. Major mending, armor buffs, dots, passives for healing, abilities for healing, passives for snares, blocking, resistances, sustain. Do they need help? Sure they do. I said it myself and inferno will help with that. But its obvious that the class isnt designed for a bursty 2h/bow medium armor build. So dont expect the class that is designed around DOTs and taking dmg to help you with a build designed around burst and mobility. You want to play like that then reroll a stamblade or stamsorc that will help with that. What exactly did u expect when u made a medium armor 2h/bow build with zero magicka sustain? Of course you are not gonna have a use for most abilities and passives of the DK class on a build like that. Thats ur fault.

I think you dont get the real problem of DK. Our passives are crap, so any attempt to be consistent with dots or without them will lead you to a dead end with a sword and a shield hunging in the wall.

Have a look at the ardent flame passives and then look ate the other classes passives: each one of those classes has a form of getting minor buffs by using their skills. DKs? An increase in the poison/fire status. And the status ticks for like 300 dmg points. An increase in the duration of the skills, and increase in the dmg of AoE poison and flame skills (which pigeonhole you into useing a flame staff orn a bow)

Have you seen how much does surge cost? Do you know what it does? Do you know that sorcs have a 5% cost reduction in all their skills? And that, just for slotting surge sorcs get 2% extra wpn and spell dmg? Sorcs passives are so good that you can even make a hybrid without using Pelinals.

So, basically when you say that DKs have tools , you are correct, we have screwdrivers and hammers and pliers.... neverthelss, you must do a surgery with that and that's not fair.

Stamden · January 2017

Xvorg wrote: »

PandaIsAPotato wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

I'm also tired of heavy attacking animation cancelling for my kills. I can't apply pressure with my AoE since that was stolen and as such I've consistently have to keep Heavy attack animation cancel abilities to get kills. So ofc I feel there is no uniqueness especially in the class skill category but this could all be solved is we would get new abilities as this game came out almost 3 years ago. 3 years ago soon and we only received weapon ultimates... I mean the skill lines like undaunted came later I think towards 2015 but still I want some new class skills man.

You say that like you wouldn't be heavy attack canceling on any other stam class, and if you aren't then you're just a baddie. With wings being destroyed the only classes a Stam DK should truly struggle with is Sorc now, we have everything we need to fight every other class, yes we don't have a spammable class ability, so what. If they gave stam DKs a stam variant of whip there'd be absolutely no reason to play mDK at all.

I used Leap, Igneous, Standard, Corrosive Armor, Fossilize, Venomous Claws, Cinder Storm, Molten Armaments. That's a ton of class skills to be using on a class that evidently doesn't feel unique, sure, we have to use weapon skills for a vast majority of our damage but that's because a vast majority of our survival comes from class skills. You don't even have to use Rally on a Stam DK if you really don't want to, throw a ton of CP at healing received/taken and Igneous Vigor will make up for the loss of Rally.

Those skills are REALLY EXPENSIVE for a stamDK (except those that scale off stam). You have 5 slots, how would you fill them? Why would you use molten armaments if you can use Rally which comes with a strong heal? Or throwing dagger, that applies debuffs? Standard? Really? Do you know how much does it cost to get 250 ulti? Leap? Sorry, why would you use Leap? Cinder storm? A skill whose utility for a satmblade is a saner that can be avoided dodge rolling?

I stopped reading after I read Cinder Storm. It's literally the most useless skill in the game lmao.

Lokey0024 · January 2017

Neighbor wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

PandaIsAPotato wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

I'm also tired of heavy attacking animation cancelling for my kills. I can't apply pressure with my AoE since that was stolen and as such I've consistently have to keep Heavy attack animation cancel abilities to get kills. So ofc I feel there is no uniqueness especially in the class skill category but this could all be solved is we would get new abilities as this game came out almost 3 years ago. 3 years ago soon and we only received weapon ultimates... I mean the skill lines like undaunted came later I think towards 2015 but still I want some new class skills man.

You say that like you wouldn't be heavy attack canceling on any other stam class, and if you aren't then you're just a baddie. With wings being destroyed the only classes a Stam DK should truly struggle with is Sorc now, we have everything we need to fight every other class, yes we don't have a spammable class ability, so what. If they gave stam DKs a stam variant of whip there'd be absolutely no reason to play mDK at all.

I used Leap, Igneous, Standard, Corrosive Armor, Fossilize, Venomous Claws, Cinder Storm, Molten Armaments. That's a ton of class skills to be using on a class that evidently doesn't feel unique, sure, we have to use weapon skills for a vast majority of our damage but that's because a vast majority of our survival comes from class skills. You don't even have to use Rally on a Stam DK if you really don't want to, throw a ton of CP at healing received/taken and Igneous Vigor will make up for the loss of Rally.

Those skills are REALLY EXPENSIVE for a stamDK (except those that scale off stam). You have 5 slots, how would you fill them? Why would you use molten armaments if you can use Rally which comes with a strong heal? Or throwing dagger, that applies debuffs? Standard? Really? Do you know how much does it cost to get 250 ulti? Leap? Sorry, why would you use Leap? Cinder storm? A skill whose utility for a satmblade is a saner that can be avoided dodge rolling?

I stopped reading after I read Cinder Storm. It's literally the most useless skill in the game lmao.

No fractured shield is the most useless skill in game RN. Cinderstorm is decent for messing with zergs

MaxwellC · January 2017

@PandaIsAPotato
Lol the fact that you say you don't need rally (pvp wise) on a Stam DK using 2h/bow already tells me you don't play a Stam DK. Rally is essential part of a DK class(Stam variant)

Addition: I know you don't play Stam DK because who the hell uses Cinder Storm on a Stam DK lmao?? Lol who uses molten armaments in PvP as a Stam DK or even as a Stam DK in general as it buffs major sorcery and heavy attacks only lol. Sorcerers can use their skills but look at the passives (you probably are a sorc so you should know) all your passives are pretty rock solid except for the summoning. You have a passive that reduces your ultimate cost, executes a player at low health, reduces cost of resources, increases weapon/spell damage, and a passive that increases your physical/shock damage so DON'T EVEN.

You want a Stam DK to get rid of a 2H and allocate CP out of his offensive CP tree to heal better? Like you for sure need to just stay in the sorcerer thread where you belong because right there was another shot you aimed at your foot... or maybe your knee

MaxwellC · January 2017

@pieratsos Again you talk about meta mate I don't fall into meta I like to play my own way and I'm proficient in doing it that way.
I've fought plenty of Stam sorcs who spam dark deal for days so don't even go there mate.
I went through skills such as DoTs explaining why in PvP they suck. If you're saying our class DoTs are good then you certainly don't play a Stam DK. I question if you PvP because I do and on my Stam Dk I'm nearly a legate but I've taken time off the game due to being annoyed with its lag.
I've played Stam Dk since console launch and DK in general since craglorn launch so I know what my class use to be and what it needs to become again.

DKs skills are the most expensive (Magicka) so what are you talking about lol. Without reduction into magicka it's on average costing you over 4K on our utility tree (earthen heart)

Savos_Saren · January 2017

So- with the change to "Chains"- now they'll act as a projectile but still pull you or another player, right?

Does this mean that we can pull people from cliffs and second stories now? If they're within reach?

It shouldn't matter if they're on the second floor of a tower. You should be able to pull them down if they're within 28 meters.

pieratsos · January 2017

Xvorg wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@pieratsos
You don't seem to understand what people are getting it when it comes to Stam DK. First of all 10k Magicka is enough to gain access to your utilities that you'd use (two abilities maybe 3) since you're not consistently using magic it's fine. Secondly this class isn't about wearing heavy armor as it seems you're eluding to but you pointed out Inferno AoE; Why was that given to sorcerers whose passives benefit the DPS role so much?

Dks who play PvP rarely use Igneous weapons I mean make that's literally 4.5k without reduction if not 4.6k magicka lol. If you need Major brutality well you go to rally or flying dagger, heck even potions!

Take Flight is a garbage ultimate and was only used for being a unique ability that allows you to fly on to keeps, it's easily beaten by dawn breaker of smiting, onslaught, rend, arrow barrage,etc.

Venom Claw and Noxious breath are both DoTs which are very unfavorable in PvP as you can heal through them, shield through them, and purify/purge it.
Noxious breath is good for the debuff but try using that ability in a fight and watch it miss more than half the time even in close range. You can even watch Fengrush who was annoyed by how unreliable it is missing at close range.

Scales is unreliable AF and many people through-out this entire thread has even stated that it DOES NOT ALWAYS REFLECT. My goodness man look through the thread before posting every ability DKs have to know which functions correctly or not.

Dragon's blood still costs over 4.4k magicka without reductions and who would even bother to use that ability during a fight lol? Now you can only use igneous shield or fossilize instead of using both when needed, what happens if you use hardened armor and that goes down is that a "Oh well there it goes" moment for you?

Regarding Flames of Oblivion there is no need to make it poison damage or the other morph whatever you're saying. The ability just needs to scale off of Max resource/damage. I'm sure poison would be great for us but I'd rather cauterize go into a PBAoE Heal for those who want to heal on their Mag DK. Flames of Oblivion would also need to increase the damage done by DoT that are DK specific by X percent or increase some form of damage.

Lastly there is no synergy with Heavy armor and DK, the only thing that people love to say is the healing passive and the block passive (which is getting nerf'd or corrected since we weren't really receiving that amount to begin with lmao). The only passive that truly aligns with Stam DK as a tank would be the damaged blocked and that's it.

Stam sorcs abilities as you listed also benefit them with passives such as implosion, Power stone (reduce your ultimate cost), unholy knowledge (reduces cost of mag/stam), Energized, Expert Mage, and Capacitor. All these passives right there is what makes stam sorcs pretty good with whatever setup they tend to rock (PvP wise).

Stamblades/Stam sorcs feel unique because their class aids them in killing enemies and their abilities make it much easier to do so.

I do not follow the meta heck I even made a build video already that shows that I do not follow the meta I wear 5 Medium 2 Heavy no proc sets just maelstrom weapons (2H/bow although the bow is currently a decisive masters bow). I wear 5 Hunding + 5 Automaton. The reason why we do not feel unique is because every other class has something that benefits them completely while also benefiting group play (PvE) while Stam DKs don't have anything other than a passive that buffs minor brutality for everyone + Magma shell. We want to provide AoEs, we want to buff our allies, and we want to have skills that are fun to use instead of relying on 90% weapon skills/ultimates.

You are the one who doesnt seem to get it. So go and read again the last paragraph i wrote. All you do is explaining how each ability isnt good because it doesnt work with the meta but this is the exact thing that i said. The design of the DK doesnt work well with current state of PVP and is certainly not working well with ur build. Just because DOTs are not the meta it doesnt mean they are useless as abilities. They just dont work well in this current state of PVP. I told you make inferno a stamDK tool with secondary effects that help the DK playstyle like buff dots. But its still not going to be useful on a 2h/bow medium build that relies on burst and mobility cause simply the class isnt designed for that. And all classes use dawnbreaker. Enough with this.
And enough with this crap about abilities being useless cause they cost a ton of magicka for ur medium armor stambuild with no magicka sustain. This is not an argument. This applies for ALL classes. Streak costs even more magicka. Does that make it useless? Do you really believe that only DK abilities cost a lot and for every other stamina class their utility abilities are free? Like seriously? Go play a medium armor stamsorc with 10k magicka and tell me how many times you can streak before running out of magicka. If you want to have more utility from magicka abilities put on heavy armor or use drinks.
Just because you dont follow the meta it doesnt mean that the class should be balanced around ur build. You have utility abilities in ur class. Major mending, armor buffs, dots, passives for healing, abilities for healing, passives for snares, blocking, resistances, sustain. Do they need help? Sure they do. I said it myself and inferno will help with that. But its obvious that the class isnt designed for a bursty 2h/bow medium armor build. So dont expect the class that is designed around DOTs and taking dmg to help you with a build designed around burst and mobility. You want to play like that then reroll a stamblade or stamsorc that will help with that. What exactly did u expect when u made a medium armor 2h/bow build with zero magicka sustain? Of course you are not gonna have a use for most abilities and passives of the DK class on a build like that. Thats ur fault.

I think you dont get the real problem of DK. Our passives are crap, so any attempt to be consistent with dots or without them will lead you to a dead end with a sword and a shield hunging in the wall.

Have a look at the ardent flame passives and then look ate the other classes passives: each one of those classes has a form of getting minor buffs by using their skills. DKs? An increase in the poison/fire status. And the status ticks for like 300 dmg points. An increase in the duration of the skills, and increase in the dmg of AoE poison and flame skills (which pigeonhole you into useing a flame staff orn a bow)

Have you seen how much does surge cost? Do you know what it does? Do you know that sorcs have a 5% cost reduction in all their skills? And that, just for slotting surge sorcs get 2% extra wpn and spell dmg? Sorcs passives are so good that you can even make a hybrid without using Pelinals.

So, basically when you say that DKs have tools , you are correct, we have screwdrivers and hammers and pliers.... neverthelss, you must do a surgery with that and that's not fair.

I literally said that the DK as a class could use some tweaks to help the playstyle and make the class abilities and passives more relevant in this current state of PVP and i also suggested a buff to stamDK even tho they do actually perform very good in prety much every aspect of PVP. So what exactly is ur problem again? Do DKs have useless passives? Sure they do. But all classes have useless passives. Do you know that stam sorcs have an entire skill line with useless abilities? Do you know that sorcs also have a very good passive that they cant even utilize cause its in the stupid pet skill line and the only thing "worth" slotting from that tree is a toggle? Do you know that the stam sorc passives u mentioned with the addition of implosion , ult cost reduction and increased physical dmg are the only passives they can use? We are talking about half of their passives being useless. All you do here is pointing out the useless DK passives and the good stam sorc passives as this somehow represents the whole picture and making it sound as if stamDK are useless in PVP. Its just two completely different classes. Stam DKs dont feel unique anymore cause of this stupid meta where everyone has everything by using broken sets and potions. That doesnt mean that stamDKs are bad in PVP. They perform very well in every aspect of PVP.

MaxwellC · January 2017

@pieratsos
Those same pet passives are utilized or do you not see the sorcerers who used them to solo vCoA, vICP, and vWGT? There were posts about that in the general forums where the player showed him soloing using the pet skill line. I won't say it's useful in PvP or PvE but solo content sure it can be and in PvP it's annoying to fight since it sometimes hide the players hit box. I feel that the skill line should be scrapped but then again the passives sorcs have already are way better than what we have on a DK so in all honestly I don't care if they are stuck with it in the first place.

The point isn't about Stam DK as a meta please stop saying that we don't feel 'unique' due to the meta it's not that.

We do not feel unique because of the simple fact in order to do damage in PvP you have to rely on 95% of your weapon class skill line instead of using a ability that does decent consistent damage e.g. Flames of Oblivion AoE. We don't feel unique because of our passives are terrible and mostly outdated with no signal of a rework coming in the near future. I've suggested a battle roar change where upon ultimate usage you would gain major heroism for 10-15 seconds which would aid our regeneration as a whole.

We have passives aiding block mitigation that at first we all thought we received the full amount but it's been bugged for years I suppose and thus it's not being downscaled to what it was actually mitigating (4 or 5%). We have health regen as a passive for slotting abilities like wtf is that all about idk.

All in all we just want skills that we can utilize for damage just one decent one and I think a good majority would be happy but that looks like it will never come and that's what irritates us. People who see me play will always see me Heavy attack into a ability because I know I do not have another ability to use that would apply pressure or do decent damage. Imagine resorting to that since you don't want to follow the heavy armor SnB meta or the proc set meta or just combine them both.

DemonDruaga · January 2017

As for the fosilize+ meteor combo..
People just go mistform to counter it, replenish vigor and outheal it or go for their block ult, imov. Pots, heany armor skill.. well basicaly scrubs are the only ones that get really surprised by it. Since the meteor just shouts out " attention, here i come ". If u use fosilize to early to counter their mistform, they have just time to break free and block.. at least those are the moves I use to counter everyone that uses meteor. Even sorcs can't streak/ frag trough imovable.

pieratsos · January 2017

MaxwellC wrote: »

@pieratsos Again you talk about meta mate I don't fall into meta I like to play my own way and I'm proficient in doing it that way.
I've fought plenty of Stam sorcs who spam dark deal for days so don't even go there mate.
I went through skills such as DoTs explaining why in PvP they suck. If you're saying our class DoTs are good then you certainly don't play a Stam DK. I question if you PvP because I do and on my Stam Dk I'm nearly a legate but I've taken time off the game due to being annoyed with its lag.
I've played Stam Dk since console launch and DK in general since craglorn launch so I know what my class use to be and what it needs to become again.

DKs skills are the most expensive (Magicka) so what are you talking about lol. Without reduction into magicka it's on average costing you over 4K on our utility tree (earthen heart)

Again saying the same things over and over again. You are playing a medium armor build with no magicka sustain, therefore ur magicka utility is obviously going to be limited. And then u mention stam sorcs spamming dark deals, streak etc. But they are playing in heavy armor so they have very good magicka sustain with constitution and therefore can use their utility abilities much more frequently. You are comparing apples with oranges here man. What exactly do you not understand? I do PVP on all classes. Its you that has no idea about any other class other than DKs. But you dont even need to PVP to know that. Thats basic mechanics of the game. If i play medium armor builds with no magicka sustain i obviously wont have huge utility from magicka abilities. Whatever class im playing. Thats just how it works. After 2-3 abilities i will be out of magicka. Like really is this so hard to understand? What exactly do u want? Igneous to cost 2k magicka with nothing into cost reduction so u can use it more frequently on ur stamDK cause you cba to get magicka sustain and u want it for free?
All you do here is saying that u are playing a non meta build that also doesnt work well with ur class and then complaining why it doesnt perform very well against meta builds. Thats literally like a solo player complaining why he is outnumbered in cyrodiil. You choose to play non meta with no magicka sustain. No one is forcing you to do that.
It doesnt matter what ur class used to be. The state of PVP changes all the time. Stam sorcs used to be extinct from cyrodiil. Now its the strongest class. You just want the game to be balanced around ur builds and you completely disregard everything else.

PandaIsAPotato · January 2017

MaxwellC wrote: »

@PandaIsAPotato
Lol the fact that you say you don't need rally (pvp wise) on a Stam DK using 2h/bow already tells me you don't play a Stam DK. Rally is essential part of a DK class(Stam variant)

Addition: I know you don't play Stam DK because who the hell uses Cinder Storm on a Stam DK lmao?? Lol who uses molten armaments in PvP as a Stam DK or even as a Stam DK in general as it buffs major sorcery and heavy attacks only lol. Sorcerers can use their skills but look at the passives (you probably are a sorc so you should know) all your passives are pretty rock solid except for the summoning. You have a passive that reduces your ultimate cost, executes a player at low health, reduces cost of resources, increases weapon/spell damage, and a passive that increases your physical/shock damage so DON'T EVEN.

You want a Stam DK to get rid of a 2H and allocate CP out of his offensive CP tree to heal better? Like you for sure need to just stay in the sorcerer thread where you belong because right there was another shot you aimed at your foot... or maybe your knee

I can't even come up with an appropriate response to this without mortifying the mod team that goes through the forums. The sheer amount of playtime and skill level that I have over your peasantry isn't even capable of being expressed in current day mathematics. Good day sir.

pieratsos · January 2017

MaxwellC wrote: »

@pieratsos
Those same pet passives are utilized or do you not see the sorcerers who used them to solo vCoA, vICP, and vWGT? There were posts about that in the general forums where the player showed him soloing using the pet skill line. I won't say it's useful in PvP or PvE but solo content sure it can be and in PvP it's annoying to fight since it sometimes hide the players hit box. I feel that the skill line should be scrapped but then again the passives sorcs have already are way better than what we have on a DK so in all honestly I don't care if they are stuck with it in the first place.

The point isn't about Stam DK as a meta please stop saying that we don't feel 'unique' due to the meta it's not that.

We do not feel unique because of the simple fact in order to do damage in PvP you have to rely on 95% of your weapon class skill line instead of using a ability that does decent consistent damage e.g. Flames of Oblivion AoE. We don't feel unique because of our passives are terrible and mostly outdated with no signal of a rework coming in the near future. I've suggested a battle roar change where upon ultimate usage you would gain major heroism for 10-15 seconds which would aid our regeneration as a whole.

We have passives aiding block mitigation that at first we all thought we received the full amount but it's been bugged for years I suppose and thus it's not being downscaled to what it was actually mitigating (4 or 5%). We have health regen as a passive for slotting abilities like wtf is that all about idk.

All in all we just want skills that we can utilize for damage just one decent one and I think a good majority would be happy but that looks like it will never come and that's what irritates us. People who see me play will always see me Heavy attack into a ability because I know I do not have another ability to use that would apply pressure or do decent damage. Imagine resorting to that since you don't want to follow the heavy armor SnB meta or the proc set meta or just combine them both.

Facepalm. Talking about stam sorcs in PVP and replying about magicka sorcs in PVE. Anw ill pretend that i didnt read that.

You are saying that u have to rely on non class abilities for dmg cause dots (which is the unique thing about DKs) do not work well in PVP . Thats the same thing as saying the class doesnt feel unique anymore cause it doesnt work well in this meta. You are saying the exact same things i said. I also said inferno could be changed to be useful for stam DKs. Can we stop beating on that dead horse? But how is this change going to help ur build? You dont rely on dots to begin with since ur build is focused on burst. Major heroism for 15 seconds after using ults is probably going to be overpowered. Considering that stamDKs can also get minor heroism u will be using ults faster than stamblades use incap.
And stop mentioning only the useless passives as if every single passive is useless. There are good passives and with the suggested change to inferno they will also become better. There will still be useless passives but then again, all classes have useless passives, including ur beloved stam sorcs. Stam sorcs probably have even less useful passives than stam DKs.
And whats ur issue with animation cancelling. Everyone uses animation cancelling. Lol thats prety much a basic mechanic of this game at this point. Doesnt matter how hard ur abilities hit. You will still animation cancel cause its just more dmg. Why wouldnt you want to do that?

Savos_Saren · January 2017

So.... that change to chains....

...any better? Or is it still glitchy?

Stamden · January 2017

jaburns wrote: »

So.... that change to chains....

...any better? Or is it still glitchy?

Stiill glitchy. Any elevation difference and it doesn't work at all.

Funny how instead of just fixing a game mechanic, they ruined multiple DK skills. Leap and chains used to have great utility around sieges to pull people and get on the wall. It gave DK's a mechanic that made them unique and useful.

But because of the 0.000001% of the situations where it get's abused, they had to destroy the skills. Instead of just adding a mechanic to prevent players from getting into non-seiged keeps, they took the easy way out and just messed up our skills. Though at this point, this is the kind of treatment I expect from the devs after years of not giving a *** about DKs.

MaxwellC · January 2017

@PandaIsAPotato
You sure do play a Stam DK I mean because every Stam DK uses cinder storm lol... Please leave the DK thread with that utter nonsense.

Anti_Virus · January 2017

PandaIsAPotato wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@PandaIsAPotato
Lol the fact that you say you don't need rally (pvp wise) on a Stam DK using 2h/bow already tells me you don't play a Stam DK. Rally is essential part of a DK class(Stam variant)

Addition: I know you don't play Stam DK because who the hell uses Cinder Storm on a Stam DK lmao?? Lol who uses molten armaments in PvP as a Stam DK or even as a Stam DK in general as it buffs major sorcery and heavy attacks only lol. Sorcerers can use their skills but look at the passives (you probably are a sorc so you should know) all your passives are pretty rock solid except for the summoning. You have a passive that reduces your ultimate cost, executes a player at low health, reduces cost of resources, increases weapon/spell damage, and a passive that increases your physical/shock damage so DON'T EVEN.

You want a Stam DK to get rid of a 2H and allocate CP out of his offensive CP tree to heal better? Like you for sure need to just stay in the sorcerer thread where you belong because right there was another shot you aimed at your foot... or maybe your knee

I can't even come up with an appropriate response to this without mortifying the mod team that goes through the forums. The sheer amount of playtime and skill level that I have over your peasantry isn't even capable of being expressed in current day mathematics. Good day sir.

Don't respond potato, it will be a waste of time. Since you have no credibility.

MaxwellC · January 2017

@pieratsos
You're not understanding that's the point. If you run medium it's not like you're spamming your magicka utilties constant unless you're just bad at PvP. I do not go around spamming igneous shield or fossilize while I'm in combat against another player(s) because that's bad resource management. You look at it as "Oh well if I run medium I will constantly spam my magic abilities and thus I have no magic sustain" like wtf is that kind of argument? You're running an offensive build ofc you need to balance your resources to the best of your ability instead of just spamming dark deal to no end and regarding that umm no that's a fact lol dark deal cost less that 2.5k magicka so if you have a 10k pool you can spam that 4 times in a row drink a tri pot and get another 4x up time. If you don't get a tri pot and with your magicka recovery being at bare minimum (around 500-600) you'd get another one in roughly 4 seconds. Mobility wise with bolt escape, I've never met a stam sorc that spammed bolt escape so I can't really say anything than that; Even when they ran away they would use a immovable pot and just sprint away.

Regarding the pet line um no you mentioned the 'useless' passives and or skill line and I went ahead and corrected that with information that you can easily search of players soloing (sorcerers) using the pets to aid what the point I wanted to get across which you dismissed entirely.

You need to re-read what I stated the only DoTs that do not work well in PvP as a FACT is our DK class ones. Please make a video of you using both DoTs no injection and show me how well that stacks up in PvP. My Igneous shield would out pace that DoT half the time lol..

That is NOT the same thing as a class not feeling unique, I just told you what it didn't feel that way just because our class DoTs suck D in PvP doesn't make me feel my class isn't unique it's having a decent passive and a decent ability that is DIFFERENT from any other class is what makes you feel unique. Having crap in a reskin doing a slightly different effect is still well you guessed it... CRAP. It's the same man and that's the point if I have to keeo stating that then there's no hope with this argument.

Flames of Oblivion would help because it's an AoE and seeing that you do not play PvE content or PvP for that matter since you're asking why it would help me. #1 PvE content we have single target damage but no class AoE, we've got barrage and we've got caltrops but to have something that could increase the DoT damage while applying even more AoE damage makes our class more versatile. PvP wise if you use noxious breath the way I use it which I believe you said you do i.e. dragging enemies out of stealth well now you can use Flames of Oblivion to accomplish that at a more fluid pace instead of spamming noxious breath which has a small delay (probably the main reason why it misses at close range).

Regarding Major Heroism that's 3 ultimate a second for x amount of seconds (since no ability in the game has it irrc) So what if we get ultimates faster than a NB that is the point because we are suppose to get ultimates a lot faster hence our passive building our regeneration around that. DK class is about standing your ground or at-least was about it and ultimate regeneration was a key part in doing that but after the changes now we all get it a same pace. Nightblades get a huge jump in comparison to DKs when it comes to drinking a potion and suddenly being awarded 20 ultimate but we'll forget about that.

Ok let me clear this up for you regarding passives let's go in compare sorcerer to DK (useful passive wise )

Sorcerer: Power Stone: Ultimate reduced by 15%, Unholy knowledge Stam/Mag cost reduced by 5%, Blood Magic enemies hit by dark magic heals 8% of your health, Persistence dark magic duration increases by 20%, exploitation using dark magic gives allies minor prophecy, Capacitor increases Mag recovery by 10%, Energized Increases physical and shock damage by 5%, implosion pretty much an execute passive, and expert mage increases weapon/spell damage for each sorcerer ability slotted.
Quite sure if you have bound armaments on your bar applies Daedric protection passive.

DK: Combustion increases burning/poison status by 66%, Searing Heat Increase fiery breath, searing strike, n DK standard by 2 seconds/ increase damage by 3%, World in ruin increases AoE flame/poison damage (not useful for stam DKs) by 6%, Iron skin block addition 8% damage (read patch notes that's how much we actually blocked all along not 10%), Burning Heart increases healing received while draconic ability is active by 12%, Scaled armor increase spell resistance by 2640 (not really good but ok), Eternal mountain increases earthen heart abilities by 20%, battle roar gives back 70% resource of ultimate cost in health/stam/mag (forgot the actual numbers for this on PTS), Mountains blessing using earthen heart skills apply minor brutality to allies and gives you 3 ultimate (6 second cool down), and Helping hands gives 5% of your Max stam when using earthen heart abilities.

Read and tell me which would you prefer because idk man a nice 15% reduction in my ultimates + passives that help me do more damage, have higher recovery, and execute players isn't too bad at all. Instead we have a few passives that help (the most being helping hands after you spam it 3 times and battle roar after you get an ultimate to use).

MaxwellC · January 2017

@Anti_Virus
You don't agree with this guy do you I mean a Stam DK using cinder storm is news to me heck even molten armaments. Don't forget he's advocating the use of Standard of might in PvP alongside class DoTs i.e. venom claw/nox breath (nox breath is good when the debuff actually applies).

Anti_Virus · January 2017

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Anti_Virus
You don't agree with this guy do you I mean a Stam DK using cinder storm is news to me heck even molten armaments. Don't forget he's advocating the use of Standard of might in PvP alongside class DoTs i.e. venom claw/nox breath (nox breath is good when the debuff actually applies).

I don't that's why I told him not to reply lol.

MaxwellC · January 2017

Ah lol I was like "maybe he uses cinder storm and I'm missing something" lol.

NBrookus · January 2017

jaburns wrote: »

So.... that change to chains....

...any better? Or is it still glitchy?

Does the phrase "too high or too low" mean anything to you?