My two cents of PvP imbalance

Olen_Mikko · December 2016

While this game is on the right track again with One Tamriel - update, i think PvP is not. And something must be done with it.

I think nerfing something is not the answer, but adjusting certain things would make a bit difference. I'm pointing out some of the things i think needs adjusting.

1. Permablock and DD at the same time

This is one of the most fked up thing i've seen. It is just absurd that someone or some classes can just press block, take 5+ player beating on him, eat one fear, break from it, gain *** of immunity to CC and keep on blocking, while doing good enough damage to kill everyone.

Why should anyone play any other class than DK or Templar, since there's no way to quickly kill them, and that's what NBs for example were designed for.

For example, nerfing fear would make this permablocking way more effective than it already is.

Permablocking is one reason, why people use proc sets. If there is like 1-2 second window when someone gets to CC the permablocker, proc sets get's enough damage in that time.

Solution proposal:
- Reduce healing regen / healing done / healing received while blocking or under protection of damage ward (maybe in PvP only?) so eventually just pressing block is not the answer.

2. Standing all day long in siege crossfire

This one is absurd AF too, and is more or less connected to the permablocking issue. This makes defending keep's outer gates useless, when people can just stand in place and suck up as much ballista / catapult hits they like.

Solution proposal:
- Make the first impact hit way more harder and than following ticks and maybe bypass some % of shields. Ticks can be purged, but if you take 3-4 direct hits, you shouldn't be able to survive it.

3. Proc sets

I personally have nothing against proc sets, since i get the feeling that they're only sets that can bring down the current meta builds. But it think they should have longer cooldown or maybe something like 20% change instead of 4 second cooldown.

Solution proposal:
- % - change or longer cooldown. Make it scale depending on target's armor, since light armored DPS builds that don't use proc sets, gets killed easily anyway.

EDIT:
- I personally don't use any proc sets, so telling me to L2P is futile.

DannyLV702 · December 2016

Block casting is definitely stupid and broken. It's on top of my list of things I would like to see gone. That with a nerf to shield and sword. Why do they need a passive that increases weapon damage so much?

Sharee · December 2016

You can permablock, but to do so you have to spec your character for it. This means sacrificing damage for block cost reduction. You can still kill people with such a build, but it requires low-quality opponents(low CP, or bad equipment, or unskilled).

Against a top class opponent, you will simply not do enough damage to bring them down. A sorc will just shield all your damage, a stamina build will anim cancel a vigor cast with a roll dodge and emerge from the roll at full hp, a templar will wave his hand... etc.

(note: the above applies without taking proc sets into account. Proc sets do stupid amounts of damage on their own, throwing the whole block cost/damage tradeoff out of the window)

Paraflex · December 2016

They could get balls and reduce CC immunity to 2 seconds....would be hilarious to see all the changes to the meta and people comeplain about CC in the game

They could Battlespirit Costs across the board by 20% for Mag and 15% for Stam when in PvP.

There's ton of options just depends on how they wanna balance the game.

Just forces people to new builds with more sustain though...they need to deal with infinate resource management and high mitigation (Reactive)....you should run into situations where you have no resources(poison helped but ruined 1vX...not the best idea)

HoloYoitsu · December 2016

Paraflex wrote: »

They could get balls and reduce CC immunity to 2 seconds....would be hilarious to see all the changes to the meta and people comeplain about CC in the game

They could Battlespirit Costs across the board by 20% for Mag and 15% for Stam when in PvP.

There's ton of options just depends on how they wanna balance the game.

Just forces people to new builds with more sustain though...they need to deal with infinate resource management and high mitigation (Reactive)....you should run into situations where you have no resources(poison helped but ruined 1vX...not the best idea)

You're dangerously close to going full potato there, the only thing you got right was that poisons destroyed 1vX.

This game is already over saturated with CC, and not only that, but CC that is combined with spammable dd abilities (dizzying swing, ect). Not only that, but many CCs tend to take a full 2 sec to even break out of (fear/incap/fossilize/ect). On top of that you often don't even get CC immunity if the CC expires instead of CC breaking. So please explain how reducing CC immunity to 2 sec would be in any way productive?
You are aware mag skills are already more expensive across the board compared to stam, so why do you advocate increasing mag ability costs more than stam? Your thinking is missing the big picture, you can't just make sustain impossible but leave uncapped dmg. The proper thing to ask for is a return of the softcap system, which I am going to assume you never experienced since your acct joined Aug 2015.

Hawco10 · December 2016

See, this is where these discussions of pvp imbalance always fall short.
Simple answer- it's the same for every single player in Cyrodil. No one person or faction has superior equipment or cp to the other person or faction. In fact, we could all wear exactly the same gear and have the same cp set up. We don't, because we choose not to. So when one build or tactic works better over another, then there is a cry of "fix pvp, nerf this or that, change this asap" and on and on we go in the cycle of change for change sake. In the op's case, he/she is discussing gameplay issues and suggestions. Again, they could be valid in one sense, but I revert back to the basic premise of it's the same for every single player in Cyordil and by that reasoning, there is or can be, no imbalance.

HoloYoitsu · December 2016

Hawco10 wrote: »

See, this is where these discussions of pvp imbalance always fall short.
Simple answer- it's the same for every single player in Cyrodil. No one person or faction has superior equipment or cp to the other person or faction. In fact, we could all wear exactly the same gear and have the same cp set up. We don't, because we choose not to. So when one build or tactic works better over another, then there is a cry of "fix pvp, nerf this or that, change this asap" and on and on we go in the cycle of change for change sake. In the op's case, he/she is discussing gameplay issues and suggestions. Again, they could be valid in one sense, but I revert back to the basic premise of it's the same for every single player in Cyordil and by that reasoning, there is or can be, no imbalance.

You're trying to argue semantics, which is completely tangential to the point of this thread and incorrect at that.

Homogeneity =/= Game Balance

leepalmer95 · December 2016

So, your signature says your a 'nb enthusiast'

Your main problem is the 'permablocking' dk's and templars, because they take too long to kill.

Now in order to perma block they give up a lot, they give up impen, cp, enchants etc... and perma blocking isn't a thing anymore not with the block regen nerf.

Now you also state that you can't kill tanky people quick, e.g. 'Permablock' Dk's and templars.

You also say proc sets are fine.

So basically my conclusion to this thread is your a proc nb that either ganks or fails to kill 'tanky' builds. Your fine with procs because they synergies with nb's so well and you want things that you can't instant kill nerfed?

Well sadly the reason these people are so tanky is because it's not fun when proctato nb's burst you down within 2's.

So they because more tanky and more hp.

Is this really a nerf this because i can't instant kill them like i used too?

Hawco10 · December 2016

No its not Holo.

HoloYoitsu · December 2016

Hawco10 wrote: »

No its not Holo.

Your way with words is truly expressive, are you Laconian by any chance?

Koensol · December 2016

Hawco10 wrote: »

See, this is where these discussions of pvp imbalance always fall short.
Simple answer- it's the same for every single player in Cyrodil. No one person or faction has superior equipment or cp to the other person or faction. In fact, we could all wear exactly the same gear and have the same cp set up. We don't, because we choose not to. So when one build or tactic works better over another, then there is a cry of "fix pvp, nerf this or that, change this asap" and on and on we go in the cycle of change for change sake. In the op's case, he/she is discussing gameplay issues and suggestions. Again, they could be valid in one sense, but I revert back to the basic premise of it's the same for every single player in Cyordil and by that reasoning, there is or can be, no imbalance.

No. First of all there are different classes and races which rules out the perfect balance you speak of. Secondly, a scenario such as yours is highly unrealistic, won't ever happen, and is therefore not relevant to the topic. Just imagine if there was one set in the game that was incredibly OP, and would kill people in 1 blow. According to your logic this would be fine, because.. whoopty doo!! everyone can use that set, so it is all balanced!

Joy_Division · December 2016

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Hawco10 wrote: »

No its not Holo.

Your way with words is truly expressive, are you Laconian by any chance?

I see what you did there

FloppyTouch · December 2016

All I hear is I'm a NB I should one shot everything even tanks...

My mDK is built to perma block cast, all gear sturdy and cp into reduce block cost. My damage is low but I can survive NB burst bc of it. When the Community complain about high burst and can't live through it NB say L2P so we built for it, now that we built to counter ur game play you say nerf it. So with much respect L2P

Olen_Mikko · December 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

So, your signature says your a 'nb enthusiast'

Your main problem is the 'permablocking' dk's and templars, because they take too long to kill.

Now in order to perma block they give up a lot, they give up impen, cp, enchants etc... and perma blocking isn't a thing anymore not with the block regen nerf.

Now you also state that you can't kill tanky people quick, e.g. 'Permablock' Dk's and templars.

You also say proc sets are fine.

So basically my conclusion to this thread is your a proc nb that either ganks or fails to kill 'tanky' builds. Your fine with procs because they synergies with nb's so well and you want things that you can't instant kill nerfed?

Well sadly the reason these people are so tanky is because it's not fun when proctato nb's burst you down within 2's.

So they because more tanky and more hp.

Is this really a nerf this because i can't instant kill them like i used too?

I don't use one single proc set, because i don't want killing to be as easy as it would be with proc sets. I could, but don't want to.

I'm totally fine that DK's and Templars are hard to kill. They are designed to be that way. But what feels absurd is that their defensing is as easy as pressing block and occasional shield casting etc.

I don't believe in nerfing everything, i rather like adjusting things. I want to kill players without me using easy mode proc sets and i want that DK's / Templars can be still tanky as hell, but killable without huge army.

Olen_Mikko · December 2016

FloppyTouch wrote: »

All I hear is I'm a NB I should one shot everything even tanks...

My mDK is built to perma block cast, all gear sturdy and cp into reduce block cost. My damage is low but I can survive NB burst bc of it. When the Community complain about high burst and can't live through it NB say L2P so we built for it, now that we built to counter ur game play you say nerf it. So with much respect L2P

I could say the same to you. L2P without permablocking.

I could use proc sets to burst you down, but i don't want to.

I just want balancing. NB's are designed to be able to kill quickly. DK's are designed to take a beating. That is totally fine, but now the thing is that permablocking is too stron and for quick kills usually the only solution is to use proc sets, which makes killing laughable easy.

I certainly don't want to nerf DK's, they should be able to take a beating, but within reason.

Most annoying thing for me is the possibility to stand in middle of siege fire and just yawn and wait for outer to be opened.

Lord_Wrath · December 2016

Anyone can say L2P, might as well be a self insult to fling that around anymore. All i can think of are nerds that take too much pride in their little gamey.

So, whats going to change? Anything? Ever? These forums fill with pages yet to no avail.

AverageJo3Gam3r · December 2016

I challenge the OP to create a mDK or magplar and learn why we block. With no escape or mobility, holding left trigger is the only defense we have when caught out in the open.

Paraflex · December 2016

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

They could get balls and reduce CC immunity to 2 seconds....would be hilarious to see all the changes to the meta and people comeplain about CC in the game

They could Battlespirit Costs across the board by 20% for Mag and 15% for Stam when in PvP.

There's ton of options just depends on how they wanna balance the game.

Just forces people to new builds with more sustain though...they need to deal with infinate resource management and high mitigation (Reactive)....you should run into situations where you have no resources(poison helped but ruined 1vX...not the best idea)

You're dangerously close to going full potato there, the only thing you got right was that poisons destroyed 1vX.
This game is already over saturated with CC, and not only that, but CC that is combined with spammable dd abilities (dizzying swing, ect). Not only that, but many CCs tend to take a full 2 sec to even break out of (fear/incap/fossilize/ect). On top of that you often don't even get CC immunity if the CC expires instead of CC breaking. So please explain how reducing CC immunity to 2 sec would be in any way productive?

You are aware mag skills are already more expensive across the board compared to stam, so why do you advocate increasing mag ability costs more than stam? Your thinking is missing the big picture, you can't just make sustain impossible but leave uncapped dmg. The proper thing to ask for is a return of the softcap system, which I am going to assume you never experienced since your acct joined Aug 2015.

My ideas were extreme changes to the game and ones I hope never happen. Just stating they have tons of options some good some bad but your term of full potato just shows your lack of understanding to think I want these terrible changes to the game.

@HoloYoitsu

BlackMadara · December 2016

Anybody holding block and still doing damage has built in a very specific manner. They do not have as much damage as real DDs or are as tanky as a full tank. They also have to play in a way that manages all resources together. This type of build is a counter to glass cannons, a bruiser. True permablocking comes with the sacrifice of damage and other types of utility. Use a dot and unblockable cc, or leave them alone.