Nightblades in PvP

Solidsnake993 · December 2016

I would like to say that I see all these nightblades that end people instantly, and I'm not just talking about high level players. I'm talking about people that are level 18... I have a good setup for my nightblade, I can dish out a lot of damage but I don't understand how they are able to activate 5 buttons in one second. Look at Sribe's playing this game. He clearly one uses of those mouses that has like 15 buttons on it. That would explain how he is able to pull that off (to some degree, like seriously). I play on console however and I still see that. Most if not all of the time all I see is incap, then dead but I know that they killed them with 5 attacks.

I'm not accusing anybody of a macro controller. I know that the abilities have an instant cast time but there still has to be a cool down that prevents them from pushing 7 buttons in 1 second. I need help really badly trying to understand this because I am struggling killing people fast enough. My weapons are golden and I'm at full cp with 100 points into hardy and 20 into precise strikes. The nightblades biggest defense is offense. I just realized that recently. I know what animation canceling is, I do it myself but c'mon to animation cancel 5 abilities in 1 second? Is this lag? I don't think it is because I can never pull this off myself. I can get 4.1k weapon damage with continuous attack.

I just need some sort of explanation to how this occurs.

Izaki · December 2016

Sribes only uses 3 abilities to gank. Bow fully charged heavy attack, Ambush and Incap Strike. But he also has a pretty particular build where he stays on his bow bar most of the time during his combo.

In fact, most gankers only use 3 abilities to gank if not less. Myself, I fully charge a bow attack, cancel it with a bar swap and then go in for Ambush and Incap on my 2H bar. Some people gank with just a Dizzy Swing from stealth, some gank with Snipe. But usually you only get hit with 3 abilities at the same time, then if needed a Killer's Blade or Surprise Attack to finish off. I haven't ever seen 5 skills hit at the same time.

LegacyDM · December 2016

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

I would like to say that I see all these nightblades that end people instantly, and I'm not just talking about high level players. I'm talking about people that are level 18... I have a good setup for my nightblade, I can dish out a lot of damage but I don't understand how they are able to activate 5 buttons in one second. Look at Sribe's playing this game. He clearly one uses of those mouses that has like 15 buttons on it. That would explain how he is able to pull that off (to some degree, like seriously). I play on console however and I still see that. Most if not all of the time all I see is incap, then dead but I know that they killed them with 5 attacks.

I'm not accusing anybody of a macro controller. I know that the abilities have an instant cast time but there still has to be a cool down that prevents them from pushing 7 buttons in 1 second. I need help really badly trying to understand this because I am struggling killing people fast enough. My weapons are golden and I'm at full cp with 100 points into hardy and 20 into precise strikes. The nightblades biggest defense is offense. I just realized that recently. I know what animation canceling is, I do it myself but c'mon to animation cancel 5 abilities in 1 second? Is this lag? I don't think it is because I can never pull this off myself. I can get 4.1k weapon damage with continuous attack.

I just need some sort of explanation to how this occurs.

So here is the secret.

Gap close, Light attack or heavy attack, "insert skill here" bash. With this combo you can animation cancel and execute your "skill" instantly. Or If you do HA from stealth and use the combo, with clever alchemist, and proc sets like viper and valedreth it's an instant iwin button.

Personally, I think it's exploiting the game mechanics beyond animation canceling. Light attack weaving is one thing to force clipping, but canceling a skill entirely so that you can string multiple attacks in 1 sec is cheese.

Many good players can execute this combo without macros. Many use macros. Either way the game allows for it regardless of macroing.

Kutsuu · December 2016

LegacyDM wrote: »

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

I would like to say that I see all these nightblades that end people instantly, and I'm not just talking about high level players. I'm talking about people that are level 18... I have a good setup for my nightblade, I can dish out a lot of damage but I don't understand how they are able to activate 5 buttons in one second. Look at Sribe's playing this game. He clearly one uses of those mouses that has like 15 buttons on it. That would explain how he is able to pull that off (to some degree, like seriously). I play on console however and I still see that. Most if not all of the time all I see is incap, then dead but I know that they killed them with 5 attacks.

I'm not accusing anybody of a macro controller. I know that the abilities have an instant cast time but there still has to be a cool down that prevents them from pushing 7 buttons in 1 second. I need help really badly trying to understand this because I am struggling killing people fast enough. My weapons are golden and I'm at full cp with 100 points into hardy and 20 into precise strikes. The nightblades biggest defense is offense. I just realized that recently. I know what animation canceling is, I do it myself but c'mon to animation cancel 5 abilities in 1 second? Is this lag? I don't think it is because I can never pull this off myself. I can get 4.1k weapon damage with continuous attack.

I just need some sort of explanation to how this occurs.

So here is the secret.

Gap close, Light attack or heavy attack, "insert skill here" bash. With this combo you can animation cancel and execute your "skill" instantly. Or If you do HA from stealth and use the combo, with clever alchemist, and proc sets like viper and valedreth it's an instant iwin button.

Personally, I think it's exploiting the game mechanics beyond animation canceling. Light attack weaving is one thing to force clipping, but canceling a skill entirely so that you can string multiple attacks in 1 sec is cheese.

Many good players can execute this combo without macros. Many use macros. Either way the game allows for it regardless of macroing.

I doubt many players are successfully using macros when ganking. It's not even remotely required, and merely limits your timing to whatever you setup in the macro which often messes things up with lag.

You can build all the muscle memory necessary for animation cancelling in PVE.

ku5h · December 2016

Skills have GCD of 1 sec and no matter what you do you will only be able to execute 1 skill in 1 sec period, but in that second you can squeeze LA/HA and bash. If you add to that procs from sets(up to 3 at once) and weapon glyph proc/poison your death recap can easily be filled up with bunch of stuff from only one skill used.
example- HA-Surprise attack-Poison-Widdowmaker-Viper-Velidreth-Bash....all of that can land inside 1 sec as you used only 1 skill really.

silky_soft · December 2016

Dont count procs as skills. As they require none.

Jaiden · December 2016

He also uses viper and I believe we weapon enchant. So you get bow heavy + ambush + viper + weapon enchant proc then I cap.

Edziu · December 2016

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Sribes only uses 3 abilities to gank. Bow fully charged heavy attack, Ambush and Incap Strike. But he also has a pretty particular build where he stays on his bow bar most of the time during his combo.

In fact, most gankers only use 3 abilities to gank if not less. Myself, I fully charge a bow attack, cancel it with a bar swap and then go in for Ambush and Incap on my 2H bar. Some people gank with just a Dizzy Swing from stealth, some gank with Snipe. But usually you only get hit with 3 abilities at the same time, then if needed a Killer's Blade or Surprise Attack to finish off. I haven't ever seen 5 skills hit at the same time.

at all if someone from gond will use more than those 3 damage skills to kill you then you should know something is wrong with this "ganger" because 2-3 skills was not enough also if with viper r you had 30k+ health in cap resists and ganger was meh, not ganger because not thinking who he can attack

Solidsnake993 · December 2016

This is kind of broken if you ask me knowing that you can be standing right behind someone with a charged heavy attack and 2 other bursts, then your actual skills.

I am not refering to ganking however although I know ganking needs to be fixed. I am referring to a 1v1, no proc sets. In this 1v1 I see nightblades "one shot people" but it's not a one shot because you open up a death recap and they hit you with 5 different abilities however the only animation that played out was their ultimate - incapacitating strikes.

That's what I'm wondering. I have a pretty good idea of how ganking works.

AzuraKin · December 2016

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

This is kind of broken if you ask me knowing that you can be standing right behind someone with a charged heavy attack and 2 other bursts, then your actual skills.

I am not refering to ganking however although I know ganking needs to be fixed. I am referring to a 1v1, no proc sets. In this 1v1 I see nightblades "one shot people" but it's not a one shot because you open up a death recap and they hit you with 5 different abilities however the only animation that played out was their ultimate - incapacitating strikes.

That's what I'm wondering. I have a pretty good idea of how ganking works.

ganking isnt the problem, the problem is proc sets. proc sets are *** to allow in pvp as they are as well as proc damage is not effected by pvp damage reduction debuff. a 19k proc in pve, does 19k damage in pvp before your mitigations.

Kutsuu · December 2016

AzuraKin wrote: »

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

This is kind of broken if you ask me knowing that you can be standing right behind someone with a charged heavy attack and 2 other bursts, then your actual skills.

I am not refering to ganking however although I know ganking needs to be fixed. I am referring to a 1v1, no proc sets. In this 1v1 I see nightblades "one shot people" but it's not a one shot because you open up a death recap and they hit you with 5 different abilities however the only animation that played out was their ultimate - incapacitating strikes.

That's what I'm wondering. I have a pretty good idea of how ganking works.

ganking isnt the problem, the problem is proc sets. proc sets are *** to allow in pvp as they are as well as proc damage is not effected by pvp damage reduction debuff. a 19k proc in pve, does 19k damage in pvp before your mitigations.

Uhh proc damage is definitely reduced by battle spirit. Else you'd be getting hit for 12-16k viper crits.

AzuraKin · December 2016

Kutsuu wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

This is kind of broken if you ask me knowing that you can be standing right behind someone with a charged heavy attack and 2 other bursts, then your actual skills.

I am not refering to ganking however although I know ganking needs to be fixed. I am referring to a 1v1, no proc sets. In this 1v1 I see nightblades "one shot people" but it's not a one shot because you open up a death recap and they hit you with 5 different abilities however the only animation that played out was their ultimate - incapacitating strikes.

That's what I'm wondering. I have a pretty good idea of how ganking works.

ganking isnt the problem, the problem is proc sets. proc sets are *** to allow in pvp as they are as well as proc damage is not effected by pvp damage reduction debuff. a 19k proc in pve, does 19k damage in pvp before your mitigations.

Uhh proc damage is definitely reduced by battle spirit. Else you'd be getting hit for 12-16k viper crits.

rofl critical strikes do same or less damage then noncritical strikes against a properly geared pvper dude. l2p and wear impen.

thankyourat · December 2016

AzuraKin wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

This is kind of broken if you ask me knowing that you can be standing right behind someone with a charged heavy attack and 2 other bursts, then your actual skills.

I am not refering to ganking however although I know ganking needs to be fixed. I am referring to a 1v1, no proc sets. In this 1v1 I see nightblades "one shot people" but it's not a one shot because you open up a death recap and they hit you with 5 different abilities however the only animation that played out was their ultimate - incapacitating strikes.

That's what I'm wondering. I have a pretty good idea of how ganking works.

ganking isnt the problem, the problem is proc sets. proc sets are *** to allow in pvp as they are as well as proc damage is not effected by pvp damage reduction debuff. a 19k proc in pve, does 19k damage in pvp before your mitigations.

Uhh proc damage is definitely reduced by battle spirit. Else you'd be getting hit for 12-16k viper crits.

rofl critical strikes do same or less damage then noncritical strikes against a properly geared pvper dude. l2p and wear impen.

That's definitely not true lol, but ok

Kutsuu · December 2016

AzuraKin wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

This is kind of broken if you ask me knowing that you can be standing right behind someone with a charged heavy attack and 2 other bursts, then your actual skills.

I am not refering to ganking however although I know ganking needs to be fixed. I am referring to a 1v1, no proc sets. In this 1v1 I see nightblades "one shot people" but it's not a one shot because you open up a death recap and they hit you with 5 different abilities however the only animation that played out was their ultimate - incapacitating strikes.

That's what I'm wondering. I have a pretty good idea of how ganking works.

ganking isnt the problem, the problem is proc sets. proc sets are *** to allow in pvp as they are as well as proc damage is not effected by pvp damage reduction debuff. a 19k proc in pve, does 19k damage in pvp before your mitigations.

Uhh proc damage is definitely reduced by battle spirit. Else you'd be getting hit for 12-16k viper crits.

rofl critical strikes do same or less damage then noncritical strikes against a properly geared pvper dude. l2p and wear impen.

You're absolutely wrong. The highest you can stack impen is 50% reduction - players can easily have over a 100% crit damage modifier.

Again, procs are reduced by battle spirit just like every other attack. Why are you spreading misinformation?

Lord-Otto · December 2016

Animation cancelling and queuing skills is just that much smoother on stamina, stamina melee and especially stamblades.
Proc sets got nothing to do with it, I've seen stamblades oneshotting experienced emps from stealth. But procs do make things worse.
I think cancelling light attacks into skills is fine, but heavy attacks, block cancelling and chaining certain animations makes for wonky combat.

AzuraKin · December 2016

thankyourat wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

This is kind of broken if you ask me knowing that you can be standing right behind someone with a charged heavy attack and 2 other bursts, then your actual skills.

I am not refering to ganking however although I know ganking needs to be fixed. I am referring to a 1v1, no proc sets. In this 1v1 I see nightblades "one shot people" but it's not a one shot because you open up a death recap and they hit you with 5 different abilities however the only animation that played out was their ultimate - incapacitating strikes.

That's what I'm wondering. I have a pretty good idea of how ganking works.

ganking isnt the problem, the problem is proc sets. proc sets are *** to allow in pvp as they are as well as proc damage is not effected by pvp damage reduction debuff. a 19k proc in pve, does 19k damage in pvp before your mitigations.

Uhh proc damage is definitely reduced by battle spirit. Else you'd be getting hit for 12-16k viper crits.

rofl critical strikes do same or less damage then noncritical strikes against a properly geared pvper dude. l2p and wear impen.

That's definitely not true lol, but ok

really dude? please correct me where i am wrong then. max crit damage boost is 2.18 on a nb with an assassin skill on bar wearing full gold 7p divines with shadow stone and archers mind set and 100 points into crit damage cp boost. this is not an optimal build set for pvp. which means that you must take away 15% for wearing something other then archers mind. and 3% for not wearing divines for a total of 2.00 crit damage boost as the highest effective crit damage boost one should have in pvp as stamina. at 2.00 a 10,000 damage hit will crit for 20,000 divided by the 50% crit mitigation max impen grants thus making it where you hit for 10,000 damage on a crit or noncrit. if you have less then 2.0 crit damage boost (i.e. you not a nb, or you not running 100 points into crit damage cp or shadow stone) you will do less then 10,000 on a crit attack.

Kutsuu · December 2016

AzuraKin wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

This is kind of broken if you ask me knowing that you can be standing right behind someone with a charged heavy attack and 2 other bursts, then your actual skills.

I am not refering to ganking however although I know ganking needs to be fixed. I am referring to a 1v1, no proc sets. In this 1v1 I see nightblades "one shot people" but it's not a one shot because you open up a death recap and they hit you with 5 different abilities however the only animation that played out was their ultimate - incapacitating strikes.

That's what I'm wondering. I have a pretty good idea of how ganking works.

ganking isnt the problem, the problem is proc sets. proc sets are *** to allow in pvp as they are as well as proc damage is not effected by pvp damage reduction debuff. a 19k proc in pve, does 19k damage in pvp before your mitigations.

Uhh proc damage is definitely reduced by battle spirit. Else you'd be getting hit for 12-16k viper crits.

rofl critical strikes do same or less damage then noncritical strikes against a properly geared pvper dude. l2p and wear impen.

That's definitely not true lol, but ok

really dude? please correct me where i am wrong then. max crit damage boost is 2.18 on a nb with an assassin skill on bar wearing full gold 7p divines with shadow stone and archers mind set and 100 points into crit damage cp boost. this is not an optimal build set for pvp. which means that you must take away 15% for wearing something other then archers mind. and 3% for not wearing divines for a total of 2.00 crit damage boost as the highest effective crit damage boost one should have in pvp as stamina. at 2.00 a 10,000 damage hit will crit for 20,000 divided by the 50% crit mitigation max impen grants thus making it where you hit for 10,000 damage on a crit or noncrit. if you have less then 2.0 crit damage boost (i.e. you not a nb, or you not running 100 points into crit damage cp or shadow stone) you will do less then 10,000 on a crit attack.

Are you trolling? I don't get it. The 50% is subtracted from the crit modifier. In your example, the crit modifier would get reduced from 2.00 (200%) to 1.50 (150%), resulting in a 15,000 hit instead of the original 20,000 hit.

Lord-Otto · December 2016

Only the bonus crit damage gets mitigated, dude. So 100%+(50% - impen value). Crits are always good, you just shouldn't sacrifice too much base damage for it.

AzuraKin · December 2016

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Only the bonus crit damage gets mitigated, dude. So 100%+(50% - impen value). Crits are always good, you just shouldn't sacrifice too much base damage for it.

dude if you do a 10,000 damage at 2.0 crit damage boost so you crit for 20k. your opponent has max resistance, max impen and you have zero penetration. your damage will be reduced to 5k noncrit and 5k crit damage. crit attacks still get reduced by physical/spell resistance.

Lord-Otto · December 2016

Zero pen?
*sigh*
And also white weapons, right?

xboxone1Q · December 2016

Trying maining a Templar he is the only guy I have. 9 out 10 people that kill me are nightblades.

Solidsnake993 · December 2016

For those of you arguing about critical strike damage with the battle spirit debuff, I would like to inform you that I run an old setup with only 4.1k weapon damage when I buff up with rally, and I can hit my incapacitating strikes for 10k on players wearing heavy armor and all impenetrable. I ganked a guy the day before that was obviously using proc sets because he got back up and tremor scaled me, he had 30k health and I killed him in 2 seconds. My incapacitating hits for 10k, my surprise attack hits for 7k, my killers blade hits for 10k.

Can someone please explain to me why I am hitting so hard? I am not even emperor and I am still hitting so hard. I crafted my friend a 5pc heavy kagrinac's with all impenetrable and then we dueled in that campaign. I know these people are wearing impenetrable because it's the same amount of damage as it is on my friend.

Greenwood1900 · December 2016

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

For those of you arguing about critical strike damage with the battle spirit debuff, I would like to inform you that I run an old setup with only 4.1k weapon damage when I buff up with rally, and I can hit my incapacitating strikes for 10k on players wearing heavy armor and all impenetrable. I ganked a guy the day before that was obviously using proc sets because he got back up and tremor scaled me, he had 30k health and I killed him in 2 seconds. My incapacitating hits for 10k, my surprise attack hits for 7k, my killers blade hits for 10k.

Can someone please explain to me why I am hitting so hard? I am not even emperor and I am still hitting so hard. I crafted my friend a 5pc heavy kagrinac's with all impenetrable and then we dueled in that campaign. I know these people are wearing impenetrable because it's the same amount of damage as it is on my friend.

WE have to tell YOU why YOUR character hits like he do?

I really don't know exactly how things are calculated but I think that I never saw a critical hit doing less or even the same damage than a non critical one.

Waffennacht · December 2016

Greenwood1900 wrote: »

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

For those of you arguing about critical strike damage with the battle spirit debuff, I would like to inform you that I run an old setup with only 4.1k weapon damage when I buff up with rally, and I can hit my incapacitating strikes for 10k on players wearing heavy armor and all impenetrable. I ganked a guy the day before that was obviously using proc sets because he got back up and tremor scaled me, he had 30k health and I killed him in 2 seconds. My incapacitating hits for 10k, my surprise attack hits for 7k, my killers blade hits for 10k.

Can someone please explain to me why I am hitting so hard? I am not even emperor and I am still hitting so hard. I crafted my friend a 5pc heavy kagrinac's with all impenetrable and then we dueled in that campaign. I know these people are wearing impenetrable because it's the same amount of damage as it is on my friend.

WE have to tell YOU why YOUR character hits like he do?

I really don't know exactly how things are calculated but I think that I never saw a critical hit doing less or even the same damage than a non critical one.

Just reduce the base damage by 50% first.

IF you have enough penetration to mitigate all resistance the math is simple: a 10k hit becomes 5k, then a crit adds 50% making a 7.5k attack in pvp.

The crit damage "modified" by resistance the same no matter if you do the math pre or post crit damage, aka the crit damage will be reduced by armor. It is also reduced by impen.

It's all multiples so you'll never see a crit do Less damage than the non crit hit.

Impen max reduction is 50%

At most a critical attacks modifier number will be reduced by 75% total when adding both max resistance and max impen with no penetration from the attacker. Thus there is always critical damage when a critical strike occurs.

Critical strike damage modifiers can exceed 100% more damage. If someone had a 100% damage modifier number faced a defender with max impen and max resistance they will still do 25% more damage to the defender per critical strike.

Does that help any?