Procs sets, eye of the storm = diversion

Rohaus · December 2016

Animation canceling is broken and has been ever since ZOS introduced the changes to animation prioritization. The forums community has stopped complaining about animation cancelling and instead focused their attention to procs and destro ult.

Used to be able to mold heavy attacks with wrecking blow for awesome burst damage... now, it is completely broken... for fast and furious combat, we are stuck with light attack + dizzying swing... boring...

Alcast explains animation canceling... though there are still some forms of animation cancelling that one can do, it just isn't anywhere near as good as it used to be.

https://youtu.be/nTjhXLQXpac

Here's the thing, animation cancelling was only good for single targets... animation cancelling never impacted zerg fights.

Kutsuu · December 2016

If their changes to animation cancelling had actually worked the way they promised it did when they explained them, then I would have zero problems with it. Clipping part of the animation of the second ability in order to display some animation for the first ability seems reasonable. The issue is that there are now bugs with it - One very prevalent when using staffs/bows is getting stuck in an unbreakable fully charged heavy attack when all you did was try to light attack weave. Another is that weapon swaps have become clunky again - I'm not really sure what the exact cause of this is, but it feels much like 2014 before the priority changes that made weapon swapping "great" for a time.

Derra · December 2016

You do realize that being able to charge a heavy attack while also executing a casttime skill is not and never was working as in intended?

That´s not canceling animations thats having two seperate casttimes run parallel.

Rohaus · December 2016

Derra wrote: »

You do realize that being able to charge a heavy attack while also executing a casttime skill is not and never was working as in intended?

That´s not canceling animations thats having two seperate casttimes run parallel.

If you had to choose, which would you prefer, proc sets or animation cancelling that worked?

Or perhaps you would prefer PvP to be just pressing abilities? light attacks, heavy attacks, and bash removed completely ?

Rohaus · December 2016

I guess the point I am trying to make is that I too am one that does not like the proc sets... I would prefer going back to a time when I had to perform a series of well timed and executed key presses in order to achieve burst damage.

I actually switched to magicka DK because I was tired of the ease in which I could kill people with proc sets... it didn't feel like a challenge at all when I was running Tremor + Red Mountain... bleh... so boring!!!

Mag DK is a lot more fun because it is a challenge compared to proc sets.

Due to boredom, I tend to try new sets and find new ways to achieve success in PvP. So, I fired up my Stam DK with the intent of building a decent tank but something could have some burst potential... running Sword and board as a purely defensive measure and 2hander as my primary DPS. Because there are far less people using Dizzying Swing, I wanted to use it again... what I found was a bit discouraging due to the broken animation cancelling.

So now... you just hold heavy attack and just have to know when to hit Dizzying Swing.... you can see both animations... I can cut my heavy attack animation in half... but it feels clunky compared to what it used to be... used to be able to hide wrecking blow behind a heavy attack... which I get why that needed to be changed... I too prefer someone being able to see that I am using wrecking blow or in this case, Dizzying swing...

Xvorg · December 2016

Maybe Proc sets should be triggered by skill, same as synergies...

In fact, press X button to make the set work seems to be a good idea. They can get the same RGN chance to proc, but you are the ne who activates.

And to add certain difficulty, you have... let say, 3 secs to make it work, otherwise you miss your chance

Sandman929 · December 2016

Xvorg wrote: »

Maybe Proc sets should be triggered by skill, same as synergies...

In fact, press X button to make the set work seems to be a good idea. They can get the same RGN chance to proc, but you are the ne who activates.

And to add certain difficulty, you have... let say, 3 secs to make it work, otherwise you miss your chance

I could get behind that, and Grim Focus already changes what it does based on condition so it's not a new mechanic. Proc damage wouldn't be free damage with this implementation.

Solariken · December 2016

They definitely made animations and the feel of combat worse with the changes. However, you really can't argue that animation cancelling as previous was good for combat. Why even have animations and weapon swings, etc if the game just lets players bypass them?

It's such a broken system that people tend to equate "skill" with the ability to exploit poor combat mechanics rather than knowledge of rock-paper-scissors mechanics or build theory as it was more in the early days. This makes me sad.

For the record, heavy attack with Wrecking Blow used to be broken AF. I'm glad they at least (mostly) fixed that.

Rohaus · December 2016

For me... what I really loved about animation cancelling was the feel behind properly executing the key sequences as well as aiming to make it all happen.

The sequence of abilities plus light attacks, heavy attacks, and bashing... all of this reminded me of combo's of the 90's found in fighter games... back in those days, you also had have the proper timings in order to execute combos' etc. Killer Instinct was very popular with me and my friends due to the skill involved with doing combos in order to perform special moves. You not only had to know the buttons to press and the order in which to do it but you also had to know the timing. It took a lot of practice to get the timings down... A+B+Up+Down etc.

When I finally got the timing down within ESO specific to animation cancelling... it took my experience to another level... felt so good to execute and perform a well timed series of abilities along with heavy attacks and light attacks AND bashing...

To see the game where it is now... you don't even need to light attack, ransack, bash... just ransack and tremor procs... zero skill in that... of course, you can add even more damage if you light attack, ransack, bash + tremor... but that isn't my point... my point is that it is easy for noobs to run sword and board now because they have Tremor... and they don't have to rely upon skill weaving in order to achieve maximum damage.

And for those people who can't or chose not to learn how to properly animation cancel... I guess you are just better off running with the large groups.

Rohamad_Ali · December 2016

I honestly don't know if animation canceling is the issue or if macros are the issue . Macros are undetectable . I wish ZOS would just allow them like other games and support them so everyone would be on a equal playing field in Cyrodiil . I don't mean looping macros either , I mean the double action hot key set ups that allow two actions at once to animation cancel faster . Despite what other say that is a short script macro as you are pushing a button once and the script is pushing the other action for you . You didn't push both buttons yourself . ZOS should just drop the macro enforcement all together for people that don't believe in breaking the rules at all , even if they wouldn't get caught .

FENGRUSH · December 2016

Animations were boned, can confirm. I felt the impact badly as a 2 hander user. When I asked SRIBES about it, he felt it badly as S+B user. We both mastered our crafts.

I can use S+B comfortably for the most part, and some people not using 2hander have got used to that easier. You just have to get used to doing things differently, and its unfortunate.

Waffennacht · December 2016

I prefer having reactionary/evolving combat than to a combo system.

Memorizing x, y, b, x, x, trigger, bumper is stupidly boring, that's why I left Neverwinter, once you get it down, you're done. It's the same button mashing X Y B RB LB X Y B LB X Y RB X Y B RB LB .... (actual Neverwinter Ranger dps rotation) over and over.

The fact combat in ESO requires reaction and various combinations and Buffs, CCs, breaks, resources etc means each battle can be completely different and entertaining, where one opponent can win one match, just to turn around and lose that very same opponent.

Rohaus · December 2016

What's wrong with both? Reactionary + combo system?

WoW is reactionary... but due to the simplicity of the combat system... is quite boring. The only complexity involved is the sheer number of buttons one must press.

GreenSoup2HoT · December 2016

If i could have it my way you would not be able to animation cancel at all. If you cancel an animation it cancels your cast.

Not seeing animations just makes the game look terrible in my opinion. Dawnbreaker is the best example. You swing a mighty sword of light down but with animation canceling it feels like a fart of light. You could also block dawnbreaker easy if it werent for animation canceling.

Rohaus · December 2016

I recall reading many posts over the last couple of years regarding this topic. In the end, it just seems that you can't make either side happy.

In order to make those folks that cry the most, happy... we wound up with a game that has nothing but broken mechanics. Broke animations... broke gap closing... broke or over performing skills and ultimates... might as well call the game Broke Back Online.

a1i3nz · December 2016

Rohaus wrote: »

I recall reading many posts over the last couple of years regarding this topic. In the end, it just seems that you can't make either side happy.

In order to make those folks that cry the most, happy... we wound up with a game that has nothing but broken mechanics. Broke animations... broke gap closing... broke or over performing skills and ultimates... might as well call the game Broke Back Online.

This lol perfect

Derra · December 2016

Rohaus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

You do realize that being able to charge a heavy attack while also executing a casttime skill is not and never was working as in intended?

That´s not canceling animations thats having two seperate casttimes run parallel.

If you had to choose, which would you prefer, proc sets or animation cancelling that worked?

Or perhaps you would prefer PvP to be just pressing abilities? light attacks, heavy attacks, and bash removed completely ?

I´d prefer bash dealing no dmg unless interrupting an ability. I have no issue with animation canceling in itself (light attack => skill).
I do think certain casttime + channel or macroslice combinations are problematic.

Xvorg · December 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

I prefer having reactionary/evolving combat than to a combo system.

Memorizing x, y, b, x, x, trigger, bumper is stupidly boring, that's why I left Neverwinter, once you get it down, you're done. It's the same button mashing X Y B RB LB X Y B LB X Y RB X Y B RB LB .... (actual Neverwinter Ranger dps rotation) over and over.

The fact combat in ESO requires reaction and various combinations and Buffs, CCs, breaks, resources etc means each battle can be completely different and entertaining, where one opponent can win one match, just to turn around and lose that very same opponent.

To be honest, the combos you create within the game are the reward... nevertheless you are right in one point, they can be all the same combos but with different effects.

Though, it doesn't matter anymore. Proc and go

AzuraKin · December 2016

Rohaus wrote: »

Animation canceling is broken and has been ever since ZOS introduced the changes to animation prioritization. The forums community has stopped complaining about animation cancelling and instead focused their attention to procs and destro ult.

Used to be able to mold heavy attacks with wrecking blow for awesome burst damage... now, it is completely broken... for fast and furious combat, we are stuck with light attack + dizzying swing... boring...

Alcast explains animation canceling... though there are still some forms of animation cancelling that one can do, it just isn't anywhere near as good as it used to be.

https://youtu.be/nTjhXLQXpac

Here's the thing, animation cancelling was only good for single targets... animation cancelling never impacted zerg fights.

animation cancelling is still in the game and to be very honest, animation cancelling is more op then proc sets. animation cancelling is game breaking. it should be completely removed.

AzuraKin · December 2016

Derra wrote: »

Rohaus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

You do realize that being able to charge a heavy attack while also executing a casttime skill is not and never was working as in intended?

That´s not canceling animations thats having two seperate casttimes run parallel.

If you had to choose, which would you prefer, proc sets or animation cancelling that worked?

Or perhaps you would prefer PvP to be just pressing abilities? light attacks, heavy attacks, and bash removed completely ?

I´d prefer bash dealing no dmg unless interrupting an ability. I have no issue with animation canceling in itself (light attack => skill).
I do think certain casttime + channel or macroslice combinations are problematic.

light attack weaving isnt animation cancelling, animation cancelling is the process by which players cancel the animation of a skill to cast more then 1 skill per second.

Lava_Croft · December 2016

AzuraKin wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Rohaus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

You do realize that being able to charge a heavy attack while also executing a casttime skill is not and never was working as in intended?

That´s not canceling animations thats having two seperate casttimes run parallel.

If you had to choose, which would you prefer, proc sets or animation cancelling that worked?

Or perhaps you would prefer PvP to be just pressing abilities? light attacks, heavy attacks, and bash removed completely ?

I´d prefer bash dealing no dmg unless interrupting an ability. I have no issue with animation canceling in itself (light attack => skill).
I do think certain casttime + channel or macroslice combinations are problematic.

light attack weaving isnt animation cancelling, animation cancelling is the process by which players cancel the animation of a skill to cast more then 1 skill per second.

For someone with so many CP 160 characters it's a bit sad you still seem to have no clue what animation cancelling is and how it works.