State of PvP and what NEEDS to change. (Possible Solutions)

vl_Game_lv · November 2016

Ok to start off, I'd just like to say I'm a Solo-Small Group player and this is based off my experience in Cyrodiil without heals being spammed upon me...

Also this is me trying to be as unbiased as I can, I am a Stamblade main.
But I have recently ventured off into Mag Sorc, Stam Sorc, Stamplar, and sorta Mag DK (Lvling Undaunted) but I have played every class.

Anyways,

Cyrodiil is obviously not at its best right now and here are my opinions on why and what can change.

1.) Dmg Proc Sets

Okay this is the obvious one (I wont mention ones I dont believe are OP)... Stamina has Selenes, Viper, Tremorscale, Widowmaker,
Magicka has Grothdarr and Valkyn Skoria

I think its obvious that every one of these sets need some work.

Possible Solutions:
1.) Lower Proc chance. (Shouldn't go past a 20% proc)

2.) Possible D.O.T route (Although this needs to be looked at very carefully as I have used sheer venom and it is very very strong and stacking multiple DOTS may be even worse then now.)

3.) Implemented system to force maximum 1 proc set on your build at a time

These sets have gotten so bad that even your solo honorable (Kappa) players are forced to run these sets to even be considered for having fun.
In DB and SOtH I had ran ZERO procs on my build. But in One Tamriel it is hard to find anyone without procs on. When you are being zerged down with nothing but cheese you sort of need to fight it with cheese, atleast on my Nightblade because the survivability solo is subpar.

2.) Defensive Proc Sets/Heavy Armor

Alright the obvious one is Black Rose. The set is way to strong and heavy armor should not be able to have incredible dmg, tankiness and the BEST sustain for stamina in game.
Idek what you could do and haven't really thought of it but possibly a nerf to the % return on the 5 piece or a simple nerf to heavy passives (Either Wrath or Constitution)

Before this next one I'd like you magic builds to skip by this because everyone seems to freak out.

Lich, Warlock, Magicka Furnace.
Yes I said it. I play a Stamina Nightblade and recently started playing Mag Sorc. The Lich set in particular is THE BEST SUSTAIN in game period.
There should not be sets in the game that you can throw on and not even have to look at you resource bars cause you know you wont be out. Im running the typical Mag Sorc build right now with Lich, Spinners, 1 Grothdarr, and VMA Inferno. Notice there is nothing but dmg in that besides Lich and I run the shadow mundus stone. The set is easy just like Black Rose.

I could only think to just nerf the amount of resources you get back from these sets.

3.) Destro Staff Ultimate

Okay I dont think its possible to disagree with this one. Its not bad as a Mag Build because I can shield stack or spam heals through it. But on my stam builds this ultimate is ridiculous and by far the most overpowered broken thing in this game.

Solutions:

1.) Increase cost (YES I KNOW IT ALREADY COST 250...)

2.) Lower dmg by 50% or more

3.) Make it block-able

4.) Lower duration

4.) Trap Beast and Roots

Lets start with trap beast. Idk if you have seen but the ability has been so strong even pre One Tamriel but now you can literally place a mine field of trap beasts all around you enemy.
Just fix the bug. I know you want it for PvE still so idk what to suggest to actually nerf it. But just please please fix the bug.

Roots...WHERE IS THE INTERNAL COOLDOWN.
Nothing gets me worked up more then some Mag DK coming up to me spamming Talons making me unable to move at all.
This is simple there needs to be a 3-6 second internal cooldown on all roots. PLEASE IF ANYTHING ADD THIS.

Reply if I had missed anything cause I probably did in the moment!

Stoopid_Nwah · November 2016

Gap closer snare. It would be nice to have that not be a thing.

WhiteMage · November 2016

As an alternative to the gap closer snare, they could just increase the range on the attack for the same effect. The reason there is the snare is, iirc, without it it would be hard to hit a moving target. Again iirc, there was a gap closer root to let these attacks hit their targets. I believe this was exploitable (ambush spamming zerglings) so the changed it to a longer duration, powerful snare. This has its own problems, namely its blatant contradiction with mist form. So how about instead, increase the range on gap closers to... idk, 20m? striking after the actual gap closing, instead of the 8m? attack that would otherwise be out of range without slowing or stopping the target. The attack would still strike in all the right situations and none of the wrong ones without all of the nasty, unpurgable, exploitable cc.

I'm pretty sure, at least.

FloppyTouch · November 2016

I disagree with the eye of the storm if any damage is taken away then the ult should drop a lot it's a lot 250 takes a long time to get up

Heavy armor I think is fine where it's at

Proc sets need a nerf

Alucardo · November 2016

Nerf my Skoria and I'll kick your ass.

Totally agree with roots though. They absolutely need a cooldown. Trap needs looking at because I'm sick of stepping on them all over the place just from one person.

Sandman929 · November 2016

vl_Game_lv wrote: »

Ok to start off, I'd just like to say I'm a Solo-Small Group player and this is based off my experience in Cyrodiil without heals being spammed upon me...

Also this is me trying to be as unbiased as I can, I am a Stamblade main.
But I have recently ventured off into Mag Sorc, Stam Sorc, Stamplar, and sorta Mag DK (Lvling Undaunted) but I have played every class.

Anyways,

Cyrodiil is obviously not at its best right now and here are my opinions on why and what can change.

1.) Dmg Proc Sets

Okay this is the obvious one (I wont mention ones I dont believe are OP)... Stamina has Selenes, Viper, Tremorscale, Widowmaker,
Magicka has Grothdarr and Valkyn Skoria

I think its obvious that every one of these sets need some work.

Possible Solutions:
1.) Lower Proc chance. (Shouldn't go past a 20% proc)

2.) Possible D.O.T route (Although this needs to be looked at very carefully as I have used sheer venom and it is very very strong and stacking multiple DOTS may be even worse then now.)

3.) Implemented system to force maximum 1 proc set on your build at a time

These sets have gotten so bad that even your solo honorable (Kappa) players are forced to run these sets to even be considered for having fun.
In DB and SOtH I had ran ZERO procs on my build. But in One Tamriel it is hard to find anyone without procs on. When you are being zerged down with nothing but cheese you sort of need to fight it with cheese, atleast on my Nightblade because the survivability solo is subpar.

2.) Defensive Proc Sets/Heavy Armor

Alright the obvious one is Black Rose. The set is way to strong and heavy armor should not be able to have incredible dmg, tankiness and the BEST sustain for stamina in game.
Idek what you could do and haven't really thought of it but possibly a nerf to the % return on the 5 piece or a simple nerf to heavy passives (Either Wrath or Constitution)

Before this next one I'd like you magic builds to skip by this because everyone seems to freak out.

Lich, Warlock, Magicka Furnace.
Yes I said it. I play a Stamina Nightblade and recently started playing Mag Sorc. The Lich set in particular is THE BEST SUSTAIN in game period.
There should not be sets in the game that you can throw on and not even have to look at you resource bars cause you know you wont be out. Im running the typical Mag Sorc build right now with Lich, Spinners, 1 Grothdarr, and VMA Inferno. Notice there is nothing but dmg in that besides Lich and I run the shadow mundus stone. The set is easy just like Black Rose.

I could only think to just nerf the amount of resources you get back from these sets.

3.) Destro Staff Ultimate

Okay I dont think its possible to disagree with this one. Its not bad as a Mag Build because I can shield stack or spam heals through it. But on my stam builds this ultimate is ridiculous and by far the most overpowered broken thing in this game.

Solutions:

1.) Increase cost (YES I KNOW IT ALREADY COST 250...)

2.) Lower dmg by 50% or more

3.) Make it block-able

4.) Lower duration

4.) Trap Beast and Roots

Lets start with trap beast. Idk if you have seen but the ability has been so strong even pre One Tamriel but now you can literally place a mine field of trap beasts all around you enemy.
Just fix the bug. I know you want it for PvE still so idk what to suggest to actually nerf it. But just please please fix the bug.

Roots...WHERE IS THE INTERNAL COOLDOWN.
Nothing gets me worked up more then some Mag DK coming up to me spamming Talons making me unable to move at all.
This is simple there needs to be a 3-6 second internal cooldown on all roots. PLEASE IF ANYTHING ADD THIS.

Reply if I had missed anything cause I probably did in the moment!

#2 is tied to #1. If you fix #1 there's no need for #2. You only see "incredible damage" from heavy armor users, even with Black Rose, because of proc sets.

Joy_Division · November 2016

vl_Game_lv wrote: »

Ok to start off, I'd just like to say I'm a Solo-Small Group player and this is based off my experience in Cyrodiil without heals being spammed upon me...

Also this is me trying to be as unbiased as I can, I am a Stamblade main.

Ok, take you at your word, you are trying. We'll see though.

1.) Dmg Proc Sets

Okay this is the obvious one (I wont mention ones I dont believe are OP)... Stamina has Selenes, Viper, Tremorscale, Widowmaker,
Magicka has Grothdarr and Valkyn Skoria

I think its obvious that every one of these sets need some work.

Not obvious. Don't really have an issue with Selene's. Valkyn is not a problem. Grothdarr isn't an issue either. Yes, its a good proc but its unreliable and easy to avoid. These are L2P isues.

Actually, I don't have much of problem with ANY proc sets. It's when the go off at the same time.

2.) Defensive Proc Sets/Heavy Armor

Alright the obvious one is Black Rose. The set is way to strong and heavy armor should not be able to have incredible dmg, tankiness and the BEST sustain for stamina in game.
Idek what you could do and haven't really thought of it but possibly a nerf to the % return on the 5 piece or a simple nerf to heavy passives (Either Wrath or Constitution)

Before this next one I'd like you magic builds to skip by this because everyone seems to freak out.

Lich, Warlock, Magicka Furnace.
Yes I said it. I play a Stamina Nightblade and recently started playing Mag Sorc. The Lich set in particular is THE BEST SUSTAIN in game period.
There should not be sets in the game that you can throw on and not even have to look at you resource bars cause you know you wont be out. Im running the typical Mag Sorc build right now with Lich, Spinners, 1 Grothdarr, and VMA Inferno. Notice there is nothing but dmg in that besides Lich and I run the shadow mundus stone. The set is easy just like Black Rose.

I could only think to just nerf the amount of resources you get back from these sets.

I'll chalk this up to unformed as opposed to being biased but it's still wrong. Warlock is not OP and not even close to it. It lets you cast 2, maybe 3, extra skill per minute. Take a look at how much cheaper stamina skills are in the game (not to mention the cost reduction skills for stam wepons) compared to magicka, realizes that is a conscious design decision, and thus the reason why Lich, warlock, Mag furnace are in the game and no stam equivalents exist.

And by the way, the best sustain set in the game period is Vicious Ophidian, a dedicated stam set.

3.) Destro Staff Ultimate

Okay I dont think its possible to disagree with this one. Its not bad as a Mag Build because I can shield stack or spam heals through it. But on my stam builds this ultimate is ridiculous and by far the most overpowered broken thing in this game.

It is absolutely possible to disagree with you. My biggest issue with this is that I can't see I am under attack by this ultimate until my health starts dropping, and still - even as a magicka build - managed to dodge/move out of it. I do think the Eye morph should be blockable since it isn't a ground DoT and thus not Negatable.

4.) Trap Beast and Roots

Lets start with trap beast. Idk if you have seen but the ability has been so strong even pre One Tamriel but now you can literally place a mine field of trap beasts all around you enemy.
Just fix the bug. I know you want it for PvE still so idk what to suggest to actually nerf it. But just please please fix the bug.

Roots...WHERE IS THE INTERNAL COOLDOWN.
Nothing gets me worked up more then some Mag DK coming up to me spamming Talons making me unable to move at all.
This is simple there needs to be a 3-6 second internal cooldown on all roots. PLEASE IF ANYTHING ADD THIS.

I will agree trap beast is too strong and the root/snare spam has been a big issue for a long time. I actually don't have too much of an issue with DKs as I do being snared when I am a cloud of mist by gap closers.

Stamden · November 2016

TL:DR

Most logical solutions:

-Implemented system to force maximum 1 proc set on your build at a time

-Nerf constitution (heavy armor regen passivee)

-Nerf destro ultimate

outsideworld76 · November 2016

They should fix the lag first, anything else has no priority imo.

NBrookus · November 2016

vl_Game_lv wrote: »

Roots...WHERE IS THE INTERNAL COOLDOWN.
Nothing gets me worked up more then some Mag DK coming up to me spamming Talons making me unable to move at all.
This is simple there needs to be a 3-6 second internal cooldown on all roots. PLEASE IF ANYTHING ADD THIS.

I agree the roots/snares are way too prevalent right now. But unfortunately, this is kinda what mDKs have left; if we can't hold you down we probably can't noodle whip you to death, especially if the other player is a perma-rolling stam build.

With the upcoming promised mDK buffs, there may be some taking away along with the giving... we'll see. Some undodgable and/or unpurgable skills would go a long way toward making roots and CC a lot less critical to the class. Or heaven forbid a functioning gap closer.

Kutsuu · November 2016

IMO, ultimates with very high cost need to provide long duration benefits like Nova. I think a very simple change to eye of the storm is to reduce damage and cost by 40%. It will still do considerably more damage than bat swarm, but won't have the heal, so you have a tradeoff choice between them. Currently it does more than double the damage of bat swarm per tick and for a longer duration - I'm sure mostly because the cost is so much higher.

Derra · November 2016

Stopped reading when you complained about magica sustain sets when stamina doesn´t even need to equip sets for sustain.

Stamina skills are flatout 20% cheaper. Stamina has unchained. Stamina has unarguably better racial sustain passives.

Magica gets affected worse by poisons as stamina increase poisons do not increase block or dodge cost whereas magica defense does get increased (try casting a shield with two or more stacked magica poisons on you and tell me lich is op again please - it´s needed to make builds work in the first place).

Derra · November 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

vl_Game_lv wrote: »

3.) Destro Staff Ultimate

Okay I dont think its possible to disagree with this one. Its not bad as a Mag Build because I can shield stack or spam heals through it. But on my stam builds this ultimate is ridiculous and by far the most overpowered broken thing in this game.

It is absolutely possible to disagree with you. My biggest issue with this is that I can't see I am under attack by this ultimate until my health starts dropping, and still - even as a magicka build - managed to dodge/move out of it. I do think the Eye morph should be blockable since it isn't a ground DoT and thus not Negatable.

Don´t let people use any gapclose, teleport or pull mechanics while the eots morph is active and there are no further tweaks needed.
There´s a reason why 80% of the people using it are NBs and the rest are sorcs.

Lokey0024 · November 2016

Get on a stamplar and tell me BR sustain is over performing. I think you are a bit naive to why certain things are the way they are.

Agree with a couple of your points, mainly lich being a set it and forget it set.

When sustain and damage negation arent an issue, what good is a type of armor that mainly buffs sustain and damage negation. Why dodge when you can heal thru it? Mediums niche is dead because of overperforming abilities, ie earthen heart passive and dark deal, combined with the heavy attack buff. Bring those individual abilities in line and it might help.

Resource poison is a good counter. Same with root spam, which alot more is happening now.

Lokey0024 · November 2016

Derra wrote: »

Stopped reading when you complained about magica sustain sets when stamina doesn´t even need to equip sets for sustain.

Stamina skills are flatout 20% cheaper. Stamina has unchained. Stamina has unarguably better racial sustain passives.

Magica gets affected worse by poisons as stamina increase poisons do not increase block or dodge cost whereas magica defense does get increased (try casting a shield with two or more stacked magica poisons on you and tell me lich is op again please - it´s needed to make builds work in the first place).

Try running heavy armor when the NB has 20k armor pen, and an unblockable cc. Im going from 27k to 3k in 2 seconds, with healing ward as my "big heal". all i can do is hope lag wasnt so bad as to let the third attack in before i can spam healing ward enough to chew half my magika bar while the rabid honey badger NB ganker finishes throwing the kitchen sink at me then slinking off.

Skinzz · November 2016

Now that vd is fixed every child and mother is running vd with the destro ult. And players are zerging around in 24 man groups doing that now.

Blackfyre20 · November 2016

vl_Game_lv wrote: »

Ok to start off, I'd just like to say I'm a Solo-Small Group player and this is based off my experience in Cyrodiil without heals being spammed upon me...

Also this is me trying to be as unbiased as I can, I am a Stamblade main.
But I have recently ventured off into Mag Sorc, Stam Sorc, Stamplar, and sorta Mag DK (Lvling Undaunted) but I have played every class.

Anyways,

Cyrodiil is obviously not at its best right now and here are my opinions on why and what can change.

1.) Dmg Proc Sets

Okay this is the obvious one (I wont mention ones I dont believe are OP)... Stamina has Selenes, Viper, Tremorscale, Widowmaker,
Magicka has Grothdarr and Valkyn Skoria

I think its obvious that every one of these sets need some work.

Possible Solutions:
1.) Lower Proc chance. (Shouldn't go past a 20% proc)

2.) Possible D.O.T route (Although this needs to be looked at very carefully as I have used sheer venom and it is very very strong and stacking multiple DOTS may be even worse then now.)

3.) Implemented system to force maximum 1 proc set on your build at a time

These sets have gotten so bad that even your solo honorable (Kappa) players are forced to run these sets to even be considered for having fun.
In DB and SOtH I had ran ZERO procs on my build. But in One Tamriel it is hard to find anyone without procs on. When you are being zerged down with nothing but cheese you sort of need to fight it with cheese, atleast on my Nightblade because the survivability solo is subpar.

2.) Defensive Proc Sets/Heavy Armor

Alright the obvious one is Black Rose. The set is way to strong and heavy armor should not be able to have incredible dmg, tankiness and the BEST sustain for stamina in game.
Idek what you could do and haven't really thought of it but possibly a nerf to the % return on the 5 piece or a simple nerf to heavy passives (Either Wrath or Constitution)

Before this next one I'd like you magic builds to skip by this because everyone seems to freak out.

Lich, Warlock, Magicka Furnace.
Yes I said it. I play a Stamina Nightblade and recently started playing Mag Sorc. The Lich set in particular is THE BEST SUSTAIN in game period.
There should not be sets in the game that you can throw on and not even have to look at you resource bars cause you know you wont be out. Im running the typical Mag Sorc build right now with Lich, Spinners, 1 Grothdarr, and VMA Inferno. Notice there is nothing but dmg in that besides Lich and I run the shadow mundus stone. The set is easy just like Black Rose.

I could only think to just nerf the amount of resources you get back from these sets.

3.) Destro Staff Ultimate

Okay I dont think its possible to disagree with this one. Its not bad as a Mag Build because I can shield stack or spam heals through it. But on my stam builds this ultimate is ridiculous and by far the most overpowered broken thing in this game.

Solutions:

1.) Increase cost (YES I KNOW IT ALREADY COST 250...)

2.) Lower dmg by 50% or more

3.) Make it block-able

4.) Lower duration

4.) Trap Beast and Roots

Lets start with trap beast. Idk if you have seen but the ability has been so strong even pre One Tamriel but now you can literally place a mine field of trap beasts all around you enemy.
Just fix the bug. I know you want it for PvE still so idk what to suggest to actually nerf it. But just please please fix the bug.

Roots...WHERE IS THE INTERNAL COOLDOWN.
Nothing gets me worked up more then some Mag DK coming up to me spamming Talons making me unable to move at all.
This is simple there needs to be a 3-6 second internal cooldown on all roots. PLEASE IF ANYTHING ADD THIS.

Reply if I had missed anything cause I probably did in the moment!

1. Grothdarr and skoria are OP but velidreth is not? yea ok... I agree proc sets are a problem obviously though
2. Heavy armor wrath passive should not exists, there shouldn't be a significant damage boost from wearing heavy armor. Also, light armor is brutal. I want to wear it on my templar but if you dont have a shield up 100% of the time you get 1 shotted with focused aim or incap left and right. This is fine in combat, gotta keep the shields up, but getting ganked in light armor makes for miserable quality of life. taking someone by surprise should give you the upper hand but being able to easily insta-gib any light armor wearer without a shield up is dumb.
3. There is no problem with magicka sustain sets. It is a 5 piece set that you have to dedicate to sustain and contributes nothing to damage. I don't see any mention of stam sorcs with dark deal or redguard black rose wearing dks with battle roar who can actually build for 100% damage with great sustain.
4. Why isnt the destro ult blockable?
5. Agree, root spam is brutal.

ced30 · November 2016

Yeah, great idea, nerf constitution passives for heavy armor, so even the people NOT using blackrose get *** to death.
Looks like a legit zos patch tho.. lol

I agree with all the rest but nerf constitution passive for just 2 problematic sets (blackrose and reactive armor), is completely stupid and would break pvp even more.
FIX SAID SETS, leave passives alone.

Btw th fix for reactive is really not hard to come by, make it proc only on hard cc, not on soft cc.

Derra · November 2016

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Stopped reading when you complained about magica sustain sets when stamina doesn´t even need to equip sets for sustain.

Stamina skills are flatout 20% cheaper. Stamina has unchained. Stamina has unarguably better racial sustain passives.

Magica gets affected worse by poisons as stamina increase poisons do not increase block or dodge cost whereas magica defense does get increased (try casting a shield with two or more stacked magica poisons on you and tell me lich is op again please - it´s needed to make builds work in the first place).

Try running heavy armor when the NB has 20k armor pen, and an unblockable cc. Im going from 27k to 3k in 2 seconds, with healing ward as my "big heal". all i can do is hope lag wasnt so bad as to let the third attack in before i can spam healing ward enough to chew half my magika bar while the rabid honey badger NB ganker finishes throwing the kitchen sink at me then slinking off.

@Lokey0024 can you please try to tell my how that has anything to do with what i wrote? I just can´t find the connection.

Docmandu · November 2016

Make it so that proc sets can't crit in PvP.. that would keep them useful in PvP and wouldn't change a damn thing for PvE.

Awakatanka · November 2016

The range of jesus beam.. it is not used as executing skill at all but 2 spamming it will kill you without possible exit.....

Redn3ck · December 2016

Wanna nerf prof sets? Just make them obey each other's cooldowns, meaning if Proc A goes off, proc's B and/orC can't go off until Proc A is off cooldown.

Svidrir · December 2016

Urgency: reduce the ultimate damage of the destruction stick.
Reduce the damage of Veludreth and Selene And other badly tested sets

Finally review correctly all the kills of classes or guilds not used to make them more interesting and have more diversity (the way pet wizard for example ...).
At the current time 1 Ultimate overwrites everything by playing a NB class (all Emperor are NB destro ..), as well as some set are ultra perfomant on a class .. NB

For Cyro: More viable secondary objectives, include the imperial city in the capture of Emperor, A skill line for the Emperor as a Werewolf (suppression of Emperor NB bombs / Destruction) .
Add wooden fences and harbors to the villages (easier than the forts but more complicated than at present) and that they are obligatory passages for the Emperor for example.
Fighting crosses, less reactive and forts that signaled only attacked the guild.
True outpost on the margin of the crown

There are plenty of very pretty places in Cyro where nothing happens .

A less symmetrical Cyrodill map, less seating weapons in the plains, a reduction in population by campaign (to have campaigns alternate less empty)

Reinstatement of: the master's weapons and, the best AP-ready equipment for players who do not like PVE

Debug of unbreakable fear, increase in the price of the shadow cape after a first use.

(Attention, winter arrives but CU too

)

Sorry this is a google translation

WillhelmBlack · December 2016

I wish I could grief people with Talons. They usually always miss or the target is immune because Shuffle. Bombard got fixed, Encase still needs balancing, it's area is massive compared to Talons.

WillhelmBlack · December 2016

Svidrir wrote: »

Urgency: reduce the ultimate damage of the destruction stick.
Reduce the damage of Veludreth and Selene.

For Cyro: More viable secondary objectives, include the imperial city in the capture of Emperor, A skill line for the Emperor as a Werewolf (suppression of NB bombs / Destruction) with for example buff skills of Zone to simulate an increase in the morale of the Allies close to the Emperor.

A less symmetrical Cyrodill map, less seating weapons in the plains, a reduction in population by campaign (to have campaigns alternate less empty)

Reinstatement of: the master's weapons and, the best AP-ready equipment for players who do not like PVE

Debug of unbreakable fear, increase in the price of the shadow cape after a first use.

Sorry this is a google translation

Came across fine. Some good points there.