Greater Evasion (Shuffle, etc) seems to proc off "effects" - hear me out

Kutsuu · November 2016

So I've been hearing all over the place that people think Shuffle has a higher than 20% chance and needs adjustment, etc. I do think the proc chance is higher than 20% if you are only counting damage in the combat log. However, I've noticed something odd when going over my FTC combat logs after many fights in PVP. A shuffle dodge can proc not only from the initial damage of an attack, but off each detrimental effect that attack has.

Just as one example, there have been many occasions that I hit someone with Incap strike and the damage part hit, then shuffle dodge went off on "Increase Damage Effect" or on "Greater Defile", and of course my next attack is dodged as well because Shuffle procs a "roll dodge" which is a short window that you will dodge all attacks. This means Incap strike has 3 chances to proc shuffle on someone with just a single attack. I think it's likely that things like detrimental weapon enchants (crusher/disease/poison/decrease health/poisons), defile procs like Fasalla/Durok's, Maim, and similar debuffs also have a chance to cause Shuffle to proc.

I haven't been taking screenshots of this, but I will try to gather some tonight. I'm curious if others have some evidence to add to the discussion as well.

IMO, Shuffle should only have a chance to proc off DAMAGE that is received, and abilities that provide debuffs shouldn't be penalized by a higher chance to make it go off.

FYI my main is a Stamina NB who always has greater evasion up at all times - this would affect me as much as anyone.

GreenSoup2HoT · November 2016

You cant dodge debuffs or else you could dodge mark target.

20% dodge chance is not what people think it is. You can dodge 1 in 5 attacks per direct attack (not dots but initial impacts melee or range). So you could have unreal rng and dodge 100% of attacks for 10 full seconds. Like you said once it procs you have a window in which you dodge everything just like roll dodge.

With the shuffle proc and dodge roll it can seem like some people are impossible to hit. Enchants might be dodge-able but im not sure if they hit first or last.

I often hear people say the opposite and say their shuffle is broken since they never dodge anything. It goes both ways. Shuffle is pure rng.

Kutsuu · November 2016

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

You cant dodge debuffs or else you could dodge mark target.

20% dodge chance is not what people think it is. You can dodge 1 in 5 attacks per direct attack (not dots but initial impacts melee or range). So you could have unreal rng and dodge 100% of attacks for 10 full seconds. Like you said once it procs you have a window in which you dodge everything just like roll dodge.

With the shuffle proc and dodge roll it can seem like some people are impossible to hit. Enchants might be dodge-able but im not sure if they hit first or last.

I often hear people say the opposite and say there shuffle is broken since they never dodge anything. It goes both ways. Shuffle is pure rng.

I understand that it's RNG - and I hear you saying you can't dodge debuffs, but that's not what I'm seeing in the combat log. I was pretty amazed to see that my Incap actually did damage, then they dodged the defile and/or the increased damage portion of the attack. Maybe the Major Fracture on mark is not a debuff that can trigger it. Again, I'll try to gather some screenshots of it tonight.

GreenSoup2HoT · November 2016

Kutsuu wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

You cant dodge debuffs or else you could dodge mark target.

20% dodge chance is not what people think it is. You can dodge 1 in 5 attacks per direct attack (not dots but initial impacts melee or range). So you could have unreal rng and dodge 100% of attacks for 10 full seconds. Like you said once it procs you have a window in which you dodge everything just like roll dodge.

With the shuffle proc and dodge roll it can seem like some people are impossible to hit. Enchants might be dodge-able but im not sure if they hit first or last.

I often hear people say the opposite and say there shuffle is broken since they never dodge anything. It goes both ways. Shuffle is pure rng.

I understand that it's RNG - and I hear you saying you can't dodge debuffs, but that's not what I'm seeing in the combat log. I was pretty amazed to see that my Incap actually did damage, then they dodged the defile and/or the increased damage portion of the attack. Again, I'll try to gather some screenshots of it tonight.

Could be the enchant? Screenshots would be nice.

Kutsuu · November 2016

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

You cant dodge debuffs or else you could dodge mark target.

20% dodge chance is not what people think it is. You can dodge 1 in 5 attacks per direct attack (not dots but initial impacts melee or range). So you could have unreal rng and dodge 100% of attacks for 10 full seconds. Like you said once it procs you have a window in which you dodge everything just like roll dodge.

With the shuffle proc and dodge roll it can seem like some people are impossible to hit. Enchants might be dodge-able but im not sure if they hit first or last.

I often hear people say the opposite and say there shuffle is broken since they never dodge anything. It goes both ways. Shuffle is pure rng.

I understand that it's RNG - and I hear you saying you can't dodge debuffs, but that's not what I'm seeing in the combat log. I was pretty amazed to see that my Incap actually did damage, then they dodged the defile and/or the increased damage portion of the attack. Again, I'll try to gather some screenshots of it tonight.

Could be the enchant? Screenshots would be nice.

I'm using a weapon damage enchant on a 2her when I use Incap. I don't use Viper, Velidreth, or any other proc set (aside from Clever Alchemist). The combat log literally says that they dodged damage increase effect and major defile.

SodanTok · November 2016

Could you maybe instead of saying what you think is happening, actually posting images of those things you see in combat log? It would make it easier to easy your mind, that it is indeed impossible to dodge effect of skill if the impact wasnt dodged.

Kutsuu · November 2016

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Could you maybe instead of saying what you think is happening, actually posting images of those things you see in combat log? It would make it easier to easy your mind, that it is indeed impossible to dodge effect of skill if the impact wasnt dodged.

I can keep repeating all day that I'll get some screenshots of it later tonight. I went ahead and posted it to see if others have seen the same thing.

pcar944 · November 2016

Ive tried to use staff and other abilities vs people who have shuffle and all I constantly see is "dodge dodge dodge dodge"

Derra · November 2016

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

You cant dodge debuffs or else you could dodge mark target.

20% dodge chance is not what people think it is. You can dodge 1 in 5 attacks per direct attack (not dots but initial impacts melee or range). So you could have unreal rng and dodge 100% of attacks for 10 full seconds. Like you said once it procs you have a window in which you dodge everything just like roll dodge.

With the shuffle proc and dodge roll it can seem like some people are impossible to hit. Enchants might be dodge-able but im not sure if they hit first or last.

I often hear people say the opposite and say their shuffle is broken since they never dodge anything. It goes both ways. Shuffle is pure rng.

Some attacks are undodgeable per design. Ofc shuffle won´t dodge those.

The main problem is the shuffle animation triggering a short window of 100% dodge while the character does the animation.

SodanTok · November 2016

Derra wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

You cant dodge debuffs or else you could dodge mark target.

20% dodge chance is not what people think it is. You can dodge 1 in 5 attacks per direct attack (not dots but initial impacts melee or range). So you could have unreal rng and dodge 100% of attacks for 10 full seconds. Like you said once it procs you have a window in which you dodge everything just like roll dodge.

With the shuffle proc and dodge roll it can seem like some people are impossible to hit. Enchants might be dodge-able but im not sure if they hit first or last.

I often hear people say the opposite and say their shuffle is broken since they never dodge anything. It goes both ways. Shuffle is pure rng.

Some attacks are undodgeable per design. Ofc shuffle won´t dodge those.

The main problem is the shuffle animation triggering a short window of 100% dodge while the character does the animation.

Is it tho? It does trigger dodge animation, but does it really dodge everything? People keep talking about it so often that by now everybody has source the one before who said it, is there any proof for it? I dont have time to check such things in PVP, but in PVE with Double Take, I can dodge and get hit at the same time.

Dodge animation is just that - an animation. ZoS would have to intentionally add "dodge window" to it (like dodge roll has).

Derra · November 2016

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

You cant dodge debuffs or else you could dodge mark target.

20% dodge chance is not what people think it is. You can dodge 1 in 5 attacks per direct attack (not dots but initial impacts melee or range). So you could have unreal rng and dodge 100% of attacks for 10 full seconds. Like you said once it procs you have a window in which you dodge everything just like roll dodge.

With the shuffle proc and dodge roll it can seem like some people are impossible to hit. Enchants might be dodge-able but im not sure if they hit first or last.

I often hear people say the opposite and say their shuffle is broken since they never dodge anything. It goes both ways. Shuffle is pure rng.

Some attacks are undodgeable per design. Ofc shuffle won´t dodge those.

The main problem is the shuffle animation triggering a short window of 100% dodge while the character does the animation.

Is it tho? It does trigger dodge animation, but does it really dodge everything? People keep talking about it so often that by now everybody has source the one before who said it, is there any proof for it? I dont have time to check such things in PVP, but in PVE with Double Take, I can dodge and get hit at the same time.

Dodge animation is just that - an animation. ZoS would have to intentionally add "dodge window" to it (like dodge roll has).

Well it could be coincidence but from experience i time my CF to hit my target with a LA and crushing shock.
It never happens (if the attacks are lined up correctly) that only one attack misses. It´s either all miss or all hit.

SodanTok · November 2016

Derra wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

You cant dodge debuffs or else you could dodge mark target.

20% dodge chance is not what people think it is. You can dodge 1 in 5 attacks per direct attack (not dots but initial impacts melee or range). So you could have unreal rng and dodge 100% of attacks for 10 full seconds. Like you said once it procs you have a window in which you dodge everything just like roll dodge.

With the shuffle proc and dodge roll it can seem like some people are impossible to hit. Enchants might be dodge-able but im not sure if they hit first or last.

I often hear people say the opposite and say their shuffle is broken since they never dodge anything. It goes both ways. Shuffle is pure rng.

Some attacks are undodgeable per design. Ofc shuffle won´t dodge those.

The main problem is the shuffle animation triggering a short window of 100% dodge while the character does the animation.

Is it tho? It does trigger dodge animation, but does it really dodge everything? People keep talking about it so often that by now everybody has source the one before who said it, is there any proof for it? I dont have time to check such things in PVP, but in PVE with Double Take, I can dodge and get hit at the same time.

Dodge animation is just that - an animation. ZoS would have to intentionally add "dodge window" to it (like dodge roll has).

Well it could be coincidence but from experience i time my CF to hit my target with a LA and crushing shock.
It never happens (if the attacks are lined up correctly) that only one attack misses. It´s either all miss or all hit.

If it happens all the time, it is possible. Kinda even makes sense that in that moment of dodge proc, you dodged everything, but I dont believe its as big problem as people make it (dodge animation alone is like 1sec, I dont think you would get anything more than 0.1s of dodging).
Could also be ranged only related problem. Like when you dodge roll, you dodge everything in the air.

Kutsuu · November 2016

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

You cant dodge debuffs or else you could dodge mark target.

20% dodge chance is not what people think it is. You can dodge 1 in 5 attacks per direct attack (not dots but initial impacts melee or range). So you could have unreal rng and dodge 100% of attacks for 10 full seconds. Like you said once it procs you have a window in which you dodge everything just like roll dodge.

With the shuffle proc and dodge roll it can seem like some people are impossible to hit. Enchants might be dodge-able but im not sure if they hit first or last.

I often hear people say the opposite and say their shuffle is broken since they never dodge anything. It goes both ways. Shuffle is pure rng.

Some attacks are undodgeable per design. Ofc shuffle won´t dodge those.

The main problem is the shuffle animation triggering a short window of 100% dodge while the character does the animation.

Is it tho? It does trigger dodge animation, but does it really dodge everything? People keep talking about it so often that by now everybody has source the one before who said it, is there any proof for it? I dont have time to check such things in PVP, but in PVE with Double Take, I can dodge and get hit at the same time.

Dodge animation is just that - an animation. ZoS would have to intentionally add "dodge window" to it (like dodge roll has).

When greater evasion procs, it triggers a normal "dodge window" just like you had used a dodge roll. During that small window of time you will dodge 100% of attacks. I don't necessarily have an issue with that, I'd rather it be a 20% chance per each individual attack but whatever. My issue is that it seems to be triggerable by more than just damage.

I spent last night finishing vMSA so I could get some more terrible trait weapons and didn't stop to PVP and get some combat log screenshots. Going to be PVPing today.

SodanTok · November 2016

Kutsuu wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

You cant dodge debuffs or else you could dodge mark target.

20% dodge chance is not what people think it is. You can dodge 1 in 5 attacks per direct attack (not dots but initial impacts melee or range). So you could have unreal rng and dodge 100% of attacks for 10 full seconds. Like you said once it procs you have a window in which you dodge everything just like roll dodge.

With the shuffle proc and dodge roll it can seem like some people are impossible to hit. Enchants might be dodge-able but im not sure if they hit first or last.

I often hear people say the opposite and say their shuffle is broken since they never dodge anything. It goes both ways. Shuffle is pure rng.

Some attacks are undodgeable per design. Ofc shuffle won´t dodge those.

The main problem is the shuffle animation triggering a short window of 100% dodge while the character does the animation.

Is it tho? It does trigger dodge animation, but does it really dodge everything? People keep talking about it so often that by now everybody has source the one before who said it, is there any proof for it? I dont have time to check such things in PVP, but in PVE with Double Take, I can dodge and get hit at the same time.

Dodge animation is just that - an animation. ZoS would have to intentionally add "dodge window" to it (like dodge roll has).

When greater evasion procs, it triggers a normal "dodge window" just like you had used a dodge roll. During that small window of time you will dodge 100% of attacks. I don't necessarily have an issue with that, I'd rather it be a 20% chance per each individual attack but whatever. My issue is that it seems to be triggerable by more than just damage.

I spent last night finishing vMSA so I could get some more terrible trait weapons and didn't stop to PVP and get some combat log screenshots. Going to be PVPing today.

This is exactly why I think its not right. People comparing it to dodge roll like it is the same thing, while they aren't (probably).
Maybe there is some proof on the internet that it works like this, but without it I have only my experience ingame (dodge roll dodges many attacks in the row all the time, evasion does not) and my experience with "slight coding". Devs would have to intentionally perform act of super lazy coding to slap on evasion proc same things that dodge rolls does.

Ask yourself. (If you are playing pvp and using shuffle). How often are you ganked and dodge whole burst combo. The usual gap closer + incap + canceled heavy happen almost instantly and can always be completely dodged by one dodge roll, but if you dont use dodge roll, then by simple math you should avoid 100% of of the gank ~20% of the time.

Back to the topic at hand, as bow user, people dodge my attacks all the time, but I have never experienced that someone would take the dmg but "dodged" Major Defile from lethal arrow, or morag tong debuff from my set. Again its my experience, because I dont have dodges in my combat log.

Kutsuu · November 2016

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

You cant dodge debuffs or else you could dodge mark target.

20% dodge chance is not what people think it is. You can dodge 1 in 5 attacks per direct attack (not dots but initial impacts melee or range). So you could have unreal rng and dodge 100% of attacks for 10 full seconds. Like you said once it procs you have a window in which you dodge everything just like roll dodge.

With the shuffle proc and dodge roll it can seem like some people are impossible to hit. Enchants might be dodge-able but im not sure if they hit first or last.

I often hear people say the opposite and say their shuffle is broken since they never dodge anything. It goes both ways. Shuffle is pure rng.

Some attacks are undodgeable per design. Ofc shuffle won´t dodge those.

The main problem is the shuffle animation triggering a short window of 100% dodge while the character does the animation.

Is it tho? It does trigger dodge animation, but does it really dodge everything? People keep talking about it so often that by now everybody has source the one before who said it, is there any proof for it? I dont have time to check such things in PVP, but in PVE with Double Take, I can dodge and get hit at the same time.

Dodge animation is just that - an animation. ZoS would have to intentionally add "dodge window" to it (like dodge roll has).

When greater evasion procs, it triggers a normal "dodge window" just like you had used a dodge roll. During that small window of time you will dodge 100% of attacks. I don't necessarily have an issue with that, I'd rather it be a 20% chance per each individual attack but whatever. My issue is that it seems to be triggerable by more than just damage.

I spent last night finishing vMSA so I could get some more terrible trait weapons and didn't stop to PVP and get some combat log screenshots. Going to be PVPing today.

This is exactly why I think its not right. People comparing it to dodge roll like it is the same thing, while they aren't (probably).
Maybe there is some proof on the internet that it works like this, but without it I have only my experience ingame (dodge roll dodges many attacks in the row all the time, evasion does not) and my experience with "slight coding". Devs would have to intentionally perform act of super lazy coding to slap on evasion proc same things that dodge rolls does.

Ask yourself. (If you are playing pvp and using shuffle). How often are you ganked and dodge whole burst combo. The usual gap closer + incap + canceled heavy happen almost instantly and can always be completely dodged by one dodge roll, but if you dont use dodge roll, then by simple math you should avoid 100% of of the gank ~20% of the time.

Back to the topic at hand, as bow user, people dodge my attacks all the time, but I have never experienced that someone would take the dmg but "dodged" Major Defile from lethal arrow, or morag tong debuff from my set. Again its my experience, because I dont have dodges in my combat log.

I see it in my combat log all the time - my shuffle procs and I dodge several attacks from multiple opponents like if I had dodge rolled.

I usually avoid people with Shuffle up like the plague when I'm ganking, but I purposely went after some today. This is the only example I pulled with limited playtime.

SodanTok · November 2016

Kutsuu wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

You cant dodge debuffs or else you could dodge mark target.

20% dodge chance is not what people think it is. You can dodge 1 in 5 attacks per direct attack (not dots but initial impacts melee or range). So you could have unreal rng and dodge 100% of attacks for 10 full seconds. Like you said once it procs you have a window in which you dodge everything just like roll dodge.

With the shuffle proc and dodge roll it can seem like some people are impossible to hit. Enchants might be dodge-able but im not sure if they hit first or last.

I often hear people say the opposite and say their shuffle is broken since they never dodge anything. It goes both ways. Shuffle is pure rng.

Some attacks are undodgeable per design. Ofc shuffle won´t dodge those.

The main problem is the shuffle animation triggering a short window of 100% dodge while the character does the animation.

Is it tho? It does trigger dodge animation, but does it really dodge everything? People keep talking about it so often that by now everybody has source the one before who said it, is there any proof for it? I dont have time to check such things in PVP, but in PVE with Double Take, I can dodge and get hit at the same time.

Dodge animation is just that - an animation. ZoS would have to intentionally add "dodge window" to it (like dodge roll has).

When greater evasion procs, it triggers a normal "dodge window" just like you had used a dodge roll. During that small window of time you will dodge 100% of attacks. I don't necessarily have an issue with that, I'd rather it be a 20% chance per each individual attack but whatever. My issue is that it seems to be triggerable by more than just damage.

I spent last night finishing vMSA so I could get some more terrible trait weapons and didn't stop to PVP and get some combat log screenshots. Going to be PVPing today.

This is exactly why I think its not right. People comparing it to dodge roll like it is the same thing, while they aren't (probably).
Maybe there is some proof on the internet that it works like this, but without it I have only my experience ingame (dodge roll dodges many attacks in the row all the time, evasion does not) and my experience with "slight coding". Devs would have to intentionally perform act of super lazy coding to slap on evasion proc same things that dodge rolls does.

Ask yourself. (If you are playing pvp and using shuffle). How often are you ganked and dodge whole burst combo. The usual gap closer + incap + canceled heavy happen almost instantly and can always be completely dodged by one dodge roll, but if you dont use dodge roll, then by simple math you should avoid 100% of of the gank ~20% of the time.

Back to the topic at hand, as bow user, people dodge my attacks all the time, but I have never experienced that someone would take the dmg but "dodged" Major Defile from lethal arrow, or morag tong debuff from my set. Again its my experience, because I dont have dodges in my combat log.

I see it in my combat log all the time - my shuffle procs and I dodge several attacks from multiple opponents like if I had dodge rolled.

I usually avoid people with Shuffle up like the plague when I'm ganking, but I purposely went after some today. This is the only example I pulled with limited playtime.

Would bet its addon error. What addon is that, I will try it. I use Lui and Combat Metrics and both dont even list dodge events.

//Edit: Forgot you mentioned it is FTC. That addon wasnt updated in ages tho, so that rly speaks towards my theory. Still will try it

//EDIT2:
Couldnt reproduce it (with snipe, poison injection, etc... didnt use incap). What else, the combat log has 0 mentions of any debuffs actually hitting. I dont think it would even notice someone dodged your debuffs (even if it was possible). Given fact it shouldnt happen, fact it says he dodged debuff taking no damage (debuffs deal no damage), fact it is 7 months old addon I would say nothing like debuff dodging is happening.
But I will use FTC for some time and if i register something odd with dodging I will be back.

Another thing, does it happen to you even if target survived the incap? (In this scenario I could totally see death as dodge to to killing blow effect)

Kutsuu · November 2016

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

You cant dodge debuffs or else you could dodge mark target.

20% dodge chance is not what people think it is. You can dodge 1 in 5 attacks per direct attack (not dots but initial impacts melee or range). So you could have unreal rng and dodge 100% of attacks for 10 full seconds. Like you said once it procs you have a window in which you dodge everything just like roll dodge.

With the shuffle proc and dodge roll it can seem like some people are impossible to hit. Enchants might be dodge-able but im not sure if they hit first or last.

I often hear people say the opposite and say their shuffle is broken since they never dodge anything. It goes both ways. Shuffle is pure rng.

Some attacks are undodgeable per design. Ofc shuffle won´t dodge those.

The main problem is the shuffle animation triggering a short window of 100% dodge while the character does the animation.

Is it tho? It does trigger dodge animation, but does it really dodge everything? People keep talking about it so often that by now everybody has source the one before who said it, is there any proof for it? I dont have time to check such things in PVP, but in PVE with Double Take, I can dodge and get hit at the same time.

Dodge animation is just that - an animation. ZoS would have to intentionally add "dodge window" to it (like dodge roll has).

When greater evasion procs, it triggers a normal "dodge window" just like you had used a dodge roll. During that small window of time you will dodge 100% of attacks. I don't necessarily have an issue with that, I'd rather it be a 20% chance per each individual attack but whatever. My issue is that it seems to be triggerable by more than just damage.

I spent last night finishing vMSA so I could get some more terrible trait weapons and didn't stop to PVP and get some combat log screenshots. Going to be PVPing today.

This is exactly why I think its not right. People comparing it to dodge roll like it is the same thing, while they aren't (probably).
Maybe there is some proof on the internet that it works like this, but without it I have only my experience ingame (dodge roll dodges many attacks in the row all the time, evasion does not) and my experience with "slight coding". Devs would have to intentionally perform act of super lazy coding to slap on evasion proc same things that dodge rolls does.

Ask yourself. (If you are playing pvp and using shuffle). How often are you ganked and dodge whole burst combo. The usual gap closer + incap + canceled heavy happen almost instantly and can always be completely dodged by one dodge roll, but if you dont use dodge roll, then by simple math you should avoid 100% of of the gank ~20% of the time.

Back to the topic at hand, as bow user, people dodge my attacks all the time, but I have never experienced that someone would take the dmg but "dodged" Major Defile from lethal arrow, or morag tong debuff from my set. Again its my experience, because I dont have dodges in my combat log.

I see it in my combat log all the time - my shuffle procs and I dodge several attacks from multiple opponents like if I had dodge rolled.

I usually avoid people with Shuffle up like the plague when I'm ganking, but I purposely went after some today. This is the only example I pulled with limited playtime.

Would bet its addon error. What addon is that, I will try it. I use Lui and Combat Metrics and both dont even list dodge events.

//Edit: Forgot you mentioned it is FTC. That addon wasnt updated in ages tho, so that rly speaks towards my theory. Still will try it

//EDIT2:
Couldnt reproduce it (with snipe, poison injection, etc... didnt use incap). What else, the combat log has 0 mentions of any debuffs actually hitting. I dont think it would even notice someone dodged your debuffs (even if it was possible). Given fact it shouldnt happen, fact it says he dodged debuff taking no damage (debuffs deal no damage), fact it is 7 months old addon I would say nothing like debuff dodging is happening.
But I will use FTC for some time and if i register something odd with dodging I will be back.

Another thing, does it happen to you even if target survived the incap? (In this scenario I could totally see death as dodge to to killing blow effect)

It's FTC, and I ONLY see it happen vs people who have major evasion up - and of course not every time. 99% of the time when incap kills someone I do not see dodge messages relating to the debuffs. I've noticed they aren't getting hit by the debuff when it happens too. And yes, it usually happens when they survive the incap - I thought this one was pretty weird since he died to it. I didn't have too much time to pvp today and I really try to avoid people who have shuffle up so it's not easy to get you guys a ton of screenshots of it happening.

glavius · November 2016

So much false info....... Test stuff people.

cschwingeb14_ESO · November 2016

This should be really easy to test with crushing shock, disease/poison enchant on a staff with +200% status effect chance.

After 20 attacks (no light attacks, and waiting a few seconds between attacks), if procs/status effects or the 3x crushing attack has significantly greater than 20%dodge chance in a duel, then you're on to something.

SodanTok · November 2016

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

This should be really easy to test with crushing shock, disease/poison enchant on a staff with +200% status effect chance.

After 20 attacks (no light attacks, and waiting a few seconds between attacks), if procs/status effects or the 3x crushing attack has significantly greater than 20%dodge chance in a duel, then you're on to something.

That is not the issue. OP has issue with debuffs like Major Defile getting dodged while attack dodged wasnt. Problem is it sounds totally stupid (doesnt mean it impossible, but basic logic tells it shouldnt be happening), happens only to him and his only proof is combat log from old addon that isnt very reliable.

cschwingeb14_ESO · November 2016

It's easy to see that procs happen before the main attack. For example, from stealth, you can kill a mob with just the viper proc, your main attack never hits, and you never leave stealth.

So the OP's theory is, if a proc (set proc, disease proc, minor Defile proc, chilled proc, burning proc, or lightning status effect proc) is dodgable, then every attack afterwards will be dodged for the length of the dodge window.

It doesn't matter if most of these thing are not dodgable, due to a coding/classification error, one of them might be. And that would explain why some people see the issue of massive dodges, and some don't.

SodanTok · November 2016

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

It's easy to see that procs happen before the main attack. For example, from stealth, you can kill a mob with just the viper proc, your main attack never hits, and you never leave stealth.

So the OP's theory is, if a proc (set proc, disease proc, minor Defile proc, chilled proc, burning proc, or lightning status effect proc) is dodgable, then every attack afterwards will be dodged for the length of the dodge window.

It doesn't matter if most of these thing are not dodgable, due to a coding/classification error, one of them might be. And that would explain why some people see the issue of massive dodges, and some don't.

Procs and on hit debuffs are kinda different thing. While some proc can be (and should be) dodgeable, debuffs like Defile or Fracture are just applied after each successful hit and till now, nobody ever even tried to disprove that. And now there is combat log from old addon, that registers all hits and suddently shows dodge on debuff (that is never, by the same addon, considered separate hit)