Rearming Trap working as intended?

pkb16_ESO2 · November 2016

Hello,
Yesterday i made some duels with some friends. Then another player came and i dueled him. I had no chance and i noticed something strange,
he was able to put various Rearming Traps all over the battleground. I asked him how he can do it and he of course had no idea of what im talking about.
So we started some Tests.
Obviously it is possible to put another Trap on the ground the moment the first Trap hits a target. What happens then is that the first Trap will rearm and stay on the ground and the second trap will also resolve. So if now another player hits the second Trap you are able to put another Trap on the ground and so on and so on. If you fight now against a Melee player (which maybe 80% of all Players are) you can just run in a circle (what that player did) , activate one trap after another (every time he walks into another one) and you will have active Traps all around you. Your Opponent will get hit by one trap after another will get the damage the dot and the rout all over the time. Not to mention the 12% crit dam Bonus 4 you...
I used the skill myself just because its to good to not use it, but i used it the way i thought it should work. Only 1 Trap can be active at the same time.
But Obviously its not the case.
So my question is: Is this working as intended?
Because if "Yes", this skill is super OP, if u play it the way described, and honestly in the long history of OP ESO skills in my Top 5 (Maybe after, super whings, self reloading batswarm, Super bash, and endless blink).
You dont believe me? Go and make a duel that way against a melee player, its just ridiculous.
If its not intended this way (what i really hope), plz fix this as soon as possible, before we see trap mine field all over.

Regards

Qbiken · November 2016

Have noticed this while doing vMSA, not sure if it´s intended tho

Rune_Relic · November 2016

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Just giving it some attention by the community managers.

ostrapz · November 2016

It works in pve too, and skill says one trap active at a time I'm pretty sure so don't think it's intended. Also when in a trap beast on my magplars I couldn't Toppling charge even when they were directly in front of me, dnt remember a gapclose issuee with my ambush

Ahzek · November 2016

I have been using RT for several months now ( started before they changed the cast time for flurry, DB ?) and it has always behaved that way.
I do not think this is a bug however, simply because the 2nd trap is a separate skill from the 1st trap and thus should not count towards the 1 trap limit for the 1st trap.
It might be very powerful under certain circumstances, but there is an actual bug that needs addressing first, before this mechanic gets chaged.

When people dodge the 1st trap (via evasion or dodgeroll) no 2nd trap will spawn, even though the 1st trap disappears ( i.e. has been triggered as the tooltip demands) and the caster gets the minor force buff applied.
This means against knowledgeable and aware opponents ( who also can afford the stamina to roll a lot/ have good shuffle RNG) you will hardly ever be able to actually trigger the 2nd trap at all, on top of the first being negated entirely as well.

This leads to some imbalance with the skill depending on who you are fighting. Against bad stamina players and any magica player ( except sorcs) rearming trap is an amazing tool to lock them down in an area and drain their stamina, while against good stamina players it hardly ever does anything at all apart from providing minor force ever so often.

I would thus change RT ( and to a lesser extent LWT as well) to one off the following to make it more balanced in all situations :

1. Make it behave like daedric mines and limit the amount of secondary traps to a number between 1 and 3.

This change is very simple, the trap will get triggered when the opponent dodges it, but it will still apply both the initial damage and the DoT to the target, but not the root. It will also spawn a secondary trap that arms after the usual timeframe.

The limitation of secondary traps is to avoid excessive abuse of limitless traps in a small area to make it less oppressive against mag builds ( all those poor mDKs I have locked up in a 10x10 meter trap dungeon of pain). I would still allow 2 or 3 traps at the same time though, to give the skill some more versatility, especially when fighting multiple opponents.

2. Make the trap not get triggered in case it gets dodged and limit the amount of secondary traps like above.

This is probably a way harder change to implement, but it is my personal favourite. This way it is possible to play around the trap in a short term scenario by rolling through it, but it will still remain there as a threat to be played around should the fight continue in the same area.
That would also mean that the trap can no longer be negated alltogether by evasion, which I am more than happy about, because that buff ( regardless of source) is an RNG fest abomination.

Ahzek · November 2016

ostrapz wrote: »

It works in pve too, and skill says one trap active at a time I'm pretty sure so don't think it's intended. Also when in a trap beast on my magplars I couldn't Toppling charge even when they were directly in front of me, dnt remember a gapclose issuee with my ambush

You were unable to charge with your templar because, like all other roots, the trap prevents that. Additionally the charge has a minimum range, so if you actually stood right in front of them it wont work regardless.
You did not notice the same with ambush, because ambush is not actually a charge, but a teleport similar to streak, which can also be used while rooted ( albeit limited in direction).

pkb16_ESO2 · November 2016

Ahzek wrote: »

I have been using RT for several months now ( started before they changed the cast time for flurry, DB ?) and it has always behaved that way.
I do not think this is a bug however, simply because the 2nd trap is a separate skill from the 1st trap and thus should not count towards the 1 trap limit for the 1st trap.
It might be very powerful under certain circumstances, but there is an actual bug that needs addressing first, before this mechanic gets chaged.

When people dodge the 1st trap (via evasion or dodgeroll) no 2nd trap will spawn, even though the 1st trap disappears ( i.e. has been triggered as the tooltip demands) and the caster gets the minor force buff applied.
This means against knowledgeable and aware opponents ( who also can afford the stamina to roll a lot/ have good shuffle RNG) you will hardly ever be able to actually trigger the 2nd trap at all, on top of the first being negated entirely as well.

This leads to some imbalance with the skill depending on who you are fighting. Against bad stamina players and any magica player ( except sorcs) rearming trap is an amazing tool to lock them down in an area and drain their stamina, while against good stamina players it hardly ever does anything at all apart from providing minor force ever so often.

I would thus change RT ( and to a lesser extent LWT as well) to one off the following to make it more balanced in all situations :

1. Make it behave like daedric mines and limit the amount of secondary traps to a number between 1 and 3.

This change is very simple, the trap will get triggered when the opponent dodges it, but it will still apply both the initial damage and the DoT to the target, but not the root. It will also spawn a secondary trap that arms after the usual timeframe.

The limitation of secondary traps is to avoid excessive abuse of limitless traps in a small area to make it less oppressive against mag builds ( all those poor mDKs I have locked up in a 10x10 meter trap dungeon of pain). I would still allow 2 or 3 traps at the same time though, to give the skill some more versatility, especially when fighting multiple opponents.

2. Make the trap not get triggered in case it gets dodged and limit the amount of secondary traps like above.

This is probably a way harder change to implement, but it is my personal favourite. This way it is possible to play around the trap in a short term scenario by rolling through it, but it will still remain there as a threat to be played around should the fight continue in the same area.
That would also mean that the trap can no longer be negated alltogether by evasion, which I am more than happy about, because that buff ( regardless of source) is an RNG fest abomination.

Imo its an ugly skill that leads to ugly playstyles, especially in PvP. If ZOS would just delete it i wont cry a tear.
And with the possibility to put various traps its much worse.
Also the fact that the root dont give u a cc immunity and u will be rooted over and over its way over the top.
I hope ZOS does what they usually do and nerf it to the ground.
In this case the best solution.

ostrapz · November 2016

@Ahzek they were not in front of me distance wise but directionwise so it was eligible gapclose range, i was unaware roots prevented gapclosing, I've maiNed nb so I've always used ambush. That explanation makes sense though. As to trap I am sure it's a bug that there are multiple. They can only be dropped after triggering the last which leads me to believe after the first activation of rearming trap the trap is being identified as "inactive/used".

In theory I could use npc's in a tower to litter an entire resource tower with traps, i dont think zos wants trap used in that way, thus they placed the 1 trap limit.
Idk how manyou you an actually set but I got up to 4 with a friend all side by side. It doesn't seem like a big deal till you duel someone and realize they have set multiple traps defending their "side".

I'm not sure what bug your speaking of but I will say I definitely thing trap is a bit too strong. Between the root, dot, and minor force I think 1 should be toned down or changed. Idk if a medium armor stamblade is just too squishy or you underestimate traps power but it is very much a threat. Most stam builds will dawnbreaker the moment you touch their trap and when you add that dot to dawnbreaker dot along with minor force it' an instakill half the time.

I don't mind the suggestion of more traps but no root, or maybe no dot but allow the roots. In general though I think it's a strong move even if your not throwing 30 of them being cheesy and I think you have to be careful tinkering with it

DannyLV702 · November 2016

Yes it can be spammed and it's stupid as ***

Abob · November 2016

Good solution might be to add root immunity.

Rohamad_Ali · November 2016

I was trying to tell people about this months ago without explaining how it's done because when it's used that way it is brutal . Intended or not it's very op .

susmitds · November 2016

What we need is root immunity. Whatever the source root spams are broken.

CrazyStarGirlNZ · November 2016

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Yes it can be spammed and it's stupid as ***

I've seen you use it on your stam dk...

Cathexis · November 2016

IMO multiple traps and mines should be a legit thing. Would make pvp a lot more interesting.

sly007 · November 2016

To make matters worse, it's invisible. Imagine if mines and rune were invisible as well. Lol.

DannyLV702 · November 2016

CrazyStarGirlNZ wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Yes it can be spammed and it's stupid as ***

I've seen you use it on your stam dk...

SHUSH!

CrazyStarGirlNZ · November 2016

DannyLV702 wrote: »

CrazyStarGirlNZ wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Yes it can be spammed and it's stupid as ***

I've seen you use it on your stam dk...

SHUSH!

Shush yourself or make me....

pkb16_ESO2 · November 2016

Cathexis wrote: »

IMO multiple traps and mines should be a legit thing. Would make pvp a lot more interesting.

The problem is the Opposite is the case. It makes fights very boring.
Now getting hit by a trap is even more dangerous, because after that 2 mine will lie on ground.
This leads to a place camping playstyle.
We have already mine-camping sorcs, u want all stamina classes minecamping as well?

Cathexis · November 2016

pkb16_ESO2 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

IMO multiple traps and mines should be a legit thing. Would make pvp a lot more interesting.

The problem is the Opposite is the case. It makes fights very boring.
Now getting hit by a trap is even more dangerous, because after that 2 mine will lie on ground.
This leads to a place camping playstyle.
We have already mine-camping sorcs, u want all stamina classes minecamping as well?

Well no, but they should implement an effective counter as well, perhaps something like making them revealed through stealth breaking abilities like magelight, invis pots, etc etc, and of course cc immunity also works.

Just tossing around ideas. Obviously it would need balancing. Personally I think CC immunity needs a serious buff, CC is totally out of control. I realize that is contradictory to the idea of unlimited traps, but I believe in dynamic counterplay.

pkb16_ESO2 · November 2016

Cathexis wrote: »

pkb16_ESO2 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

IMO multiple traps and mines should be a legit thing. Would make pvp a lot more interesting.

The problem is the Opposite is the case. It makes fights very boring.
Now getting hit by a trap is even more dangerous, because after that 2 mine will lie on ground.
This leads to a place camping playstyle.
We have already mine-camping sorcs, u want all stamina classes minecamping as well?

Well no, but they should implement an effective counter as well, perhaps something like making them revealed through stealth breaking abilities like magelight, invis pots, etc etc, and of course cc immunity also works.

Just tossing around ideas. Obviously it would need balancing. Personally I think CC immunity needs a serious buff, CC is totally out of control. I realize that is contradictory to the idea of unlimited traps, but I believe in dynamic counterplay.

"and of course CC immunity works". Dont know what u mean. If you get rooted by a trap you dont get the CC immunity Buff, so if u hit another active trap you will get rooted again.
If you have the Buff up from another hard CC you will also get rooted.
So what are you talking about?

Alucardo · November 2016

It's been behaving this way for so long it is now a feature, whether we like it or not

Mayrael · November 2016

Well fix is needed for this... Or just fix retreating manuever so it will give you root and snare immunity. As for now you can use forward momentum or ellusive mist, cleanse, purfying ritual to break the roots. I usualy use ellusive mist as its funy to troll trap users especialy rearming trap. Its one cast vs multiple

Though I wouldnt mind having something like root immunity OR roots being broke by any direct dmg.

Galvanize · November 2016

Its the cc and on top of that the snare that follows which is particularly annoying, not to mention you can have several traps on the floor at simultaneously. Duelling, yes its OP, as for PvE I dont think its OP at all.