Is there a case to be made in favor of proc damage sets?

Sandman929 · October 2016

The topic is pretty much in the title. I read a lot different complaints about Radiant Destruction, Shuffle, Heavy Armor being OP and a variety of in-game annoyances. But IMO getting killed (or so damaged that you're easily killed) by a players armor proc is by far the most annoying aspect of PvP that @ZOS has decided to double down on in the latest update.
Does anyone think these sets add to PvP in a positive way? If so, how?

susmitds · October 2016

It makes you feel lucky and awesome when it works.

incite · October 2016

You can considser some of these proc sets as an extra ulti or a 6th active skill

Not a fan from a pvp perspective

NBrookus · October 2016

In PvE, watching your set proc is a lot of fun.

In PvP, it's just bad design. It just encourages blobbing up with a bunch of purge/heal spammers in the shelter of AOE caps and trying to string together the biggest set proc you can.

DeadlyRecluse · October 2016

Proc sets are "fun" in that they have a cool visual effect, and aren't just statboosting--compared to a statboost set like hundings or TBS, proc sets feel kinda awesome.

Really, imo, the only issue is when you stack multiple proc sets on one build, especially with interacting/overlapping triggers.

First, stacking:
JUST viper? Not a problem, adds some jumps in damage during a fight, makes it important to keep health a little higher during the fight.

Viper+Velidreth/Selenes+widowmaker/red mountain? That becomes almost completely noninteractive--eventually, all those procs will sync up, and that's pretty stupid amounts of free damage in the same moment. Unless they move procsets to the same slot(s) so they can't be stacked, you get into kind of a weird issue here, where reducing their damage so that they aren't OP when stacked makes them more or less useless in builds that aren't stacking them.

Second, procs need to be something you have to build around: Skoria and Nerieneth are great examples of this--they are good, but you can't just slap skoria on a build and expect to see good returns from it. They shine on builds meant to trigger them frequently, by design. Several new sets, though, are just too straightforward in terms of proccing. Velidreth and Grothdarr come to mind. Not only is the procrate insanely high, but the conditions are essentially free. You don't have to change anything to proc them reliably.

Minno · October 2016

Reasons for:
- grants dmg sources originally limited within the "class" eco system
- helps console players earn some burst due to limited controller functionality (keyboard+ mouse still offers potential for faster gameplay over a controller.)
- procs from gear within RPG tradition (Diablo 2, baldies gate 2, etc.)

Reasons against:
-dmg is too high for procs in relation to set sizes (some 2pc give more than 5pc)
-procs can stack without limitation in certain cases

Asmael · October 2016

Changing most stam proc sets to DoTs, or changing the proccing mechanic would be a pretty big step in reducing their current impact.

Look at some of the magicka sets, such as Skoria, Grothdar and Ilambris: they don't get their full effect right away, either by being a DoT (Grothdar, Ilambris) or having a specific requirement that doesn't allow it to proc reliably (Skoria).

If Velidreth / Viper / Widowmaker were to proc after doing a set number of light attacks (or anything preventing an instant proc) and / or dealing their damage over a duration, you keep the concept of proc, it doesn't lose effective DPS in PvE and you give a chance to counter it in PvP, and we finally get a chance to fight without having to deal with 15k+ damage in a split second from a basic ability.

ManDraKE · October 2016

The good things about proc sets is that you can make builds that don't rely on max stats, like every other stam build. For example, with proc sets i can build a medium armor wood elf NB with drinks and do enough damage to actual match the damage (not the survivability tho) of a classic bi-stat food heavy armor redguard. If you remove proc sets, you remove a lot of builds, forcing everyone (even more than now) to run the classic redguard blackrose meta.

That being said, stacking multiple proc sets is out of control. Viper/Widowmaker + Velidreth/thermoscale/selene + blackrose is too much: insane damage, super tanky, great healing, great sustain, is just the perfect just build. If ZoS plan to keep the proc sets as they are right know, they should force you to run them of medium armor (by nerfing black rose, wraith passive, and requiere 5 pieces medium to use shuffle), which effectible will turn those builds in glass cannon builds. Not ideal, but at least you will be killing them pretty easy, they will end up being ganking builds, and not OP all around builds.

Sheuib · October 2016

There has been a lot of discussion about proc sets but in my opinion it is just something new that people have to adjust their build for. If you're still running around with the all damage 20k health build you're going to die a lot.

I changed my build to 2 heavy and 5 light with 30k+ health and my survivability is much easier and I still have plenty of damage.

The sets are here to stay so it is time everyone starts dealing with the change.

Jaronking · October 2016

Minno wrote: »

Reasons for:
- grants dmg sources originally limited within the "class" eco system
- helps console players earn some burst due to limited controller functionality (keyboard+ mouse still offers potential for faster gameplay over a controller.)
- procs from gear within RPG tradition (Diablo 2, baldies gate 2, etc.)

Reasons against:
-dmg is too high for procs in relation to set sizes (some 2pc give more than 5pc)
-procs can stack without limitation in certain cases

Consoles player don't need problem with burst most of us can still do good burst damage without proc sets.

Sandman929 · October 2016

Sheuib wrote: »

There has been a lot of discussion about proc sets but in my opinion it is just something new that people have to adjust their build for. If you're still running around with the all damage 20k health build you're going to die a lot.

I changed my build to 2 heavy and 5 light with 30k+ health and my survivability is much easier and I still have plenty of damage.

The sets are here to stay so it is time everyone starts dealing with the change.

Hard to disagree there, I hated Vicious Death and that's still around. I still think they're cheap and scrubby, but I recognize that no one cares.

Minalan · October 2016

Sandman929 wrote: »

Sheuib wrote: »

There has been a lot of discussion about proc sets but in my opinion it is just something new that people have to adjust their build for. If you're still running around with the all damage 20k health build you're going to die a lot.

I changed my build to 2 heavy and 5 light with 30k+ health and my survivability is much easier and I still have plenty of damage.

The sets are here to stay so it is time everyone starts dealing with the change.

Hard to disagree there, I hated Vicious Death and that's still around. I still think they're cheap and scrubby, but I recognize that no one cares.

It stopped being such a 'huge thing' once proxy det was nerfed into the dirt.

Lokey0024 · October 2016

I can now eat tacos and effectively pvp at the same time. I love tacos.

DHale · October 2016

I like tacos too.

Omgwtfbbq321 · October 2016

I'd like to see all proc sets be changed to a Major/Minor system. So you can't stack them. It's already boring that almost every player I run into is a stam build running basically the same setup.

Takes no skill/effort to play what the obvious over preforming setup is each patch. This is just as bad as the bomb blades, God sorcs or invincible DKS in the past. Only these days it's an entire play style, not just one class.

Ankael07 · October 2016

Proc sets like Nerieneth, Valkyn Skoria or Infernal guardian are the only acceptable types in my opinion. There has to be a condition to inflict that damage on the enemy so that people will craft builds according to that.

Abob · October 2016

The problem with proc sets is that when you stack then they do more damage than actual skills. So basically everything is based on RNG: the lucky player wins.

Alucardo · October 2016

incite wrote: »

You can considser some of these proc sets as an extra ulti or a 6th active skill

Not a fan from a pvp perspective

I'd say both. 2pc undaunted proc sets are like free ultimates, 5pc proc sets are pretty much the same as having a free skill that goes off. Or 2 skills if you run 2 proc sets (Viper + Red Mountain for example).
In one light attack you could fire off a poison, an ultimate and a powerful ability all for the cost of... light attacking. Now I don't have a degree in game development or anything, but that sounds completely stupid.

artal · October 2016

I'm stamina player, not because its stronger but because i always like some brawler playstyle. I hate these proc sets with passion. One heavy attack, ransack + bash and you can kill enemy???!!!! If there is some player out there that dont think that is over the top i would love to hear reasoning behind it.
If people really want to run with proc sets (and for them to be in game) than they should sacrifice a lot for CHANCE of that set to proc. Not like this to have dmg so reliable on your disposition.

defilade__ESO · October 2016

Sandman929 wrote: »

The topic is pretty much in the title. I read a lot different complaints about Radiant Destruction, Shuffle, Heavy Armor being OP and a variety of in-game annoyances. But IMO getting killed (or so damaged that you're easily killed) by a players armor proc is by far the most annoying aspect of PvP that @ZOS has decided to double down on in the latest update.
Does anyone think these sets add to PvP in a positive way? If so, how?

Armor and weapons and jewelry are not mechanized droids or intelligent weapons systems, they should not be casting targeted damage spells, poison clouds, and debuff spells at other players.

This was supposed to be an Elder Scrolls game, now it's turning into mech warrior, where putting on your armor is akin to climbing into your mechanized battle suit.

If a set of cloth armor is going to launch a freaking bomb at players doing over 18k damage, where is the rocket launcher?

defilade__ESO · October 2016

Abob wrote: »

The problem with proc sets is that when you stack then they do more damage than actual skills. So basically everything is based on RNG: the lucky player wins.

It seems that if you get lucky and cast an AoE into a group of player and kill three at the same time, then Vicious Death procs. launching an invisible bomb, three times doing over 54k damage to everyone standing next to those players

Sheuib wrote: »

There has been a lot of discussion about proc sets but in my opinion it is just something new that people have to adjust their build for. If you're still running around with the all damage 20k health build you're going to die a lot.

I changed my build to 2 heavy and 5 light with 30k+ health and my survivability is much easier and I still have plenty of damage.

The sets are here to stay so it is time everyone starts dealing with the change.

Until players get bored and want even more ridonkulous Vicious Death type proc sets, and start pumping out more dps from no talent armor sets. We keep going down this road, and you will be able to go AFK in a delve and your armor will kill all the mobs for you.

arkansas_ESO · October 2016

The sad thing is, this thread could have fifty pages with hundreds of people saying that they don't like proc sets and want them to be redesigned/rebalanced and ZOS would still keep them in.

FriedEggSandwich · October 2016

What was the first proc set? Maw of the Infernal? Then Engine Guardian? As a sorc who's burst has always relied on procs (frags/disintegration etc) I have no specific issue with procs of any kind, assuming their proc rates and conditions are "balanced". I have no intention of ever using them but I'm fine with them being in pvp. I would like to see their damage/proc rates/conditions tweaked, but I wouldn't want the job of doing it.

Lava_Croft · October 2016

Sure there is, just use the Wrobel arguments:

Does it look cool?
Does it make me feel cool?

All other arguments are void.