Is Grim Harlequin Motif limited time exclusive of the crown store or not?

Daz_dingoeb17_ESO · October 2016

Since the showcase several people asked if the motif is gonna be a crown store exclusive and if yes why but still no one has answered.
We need a clarification to that and if that is the case indeed everyone should be against it. Cause even if many people don't like the appearance of this motif they should keep in mind that probably stalhrim motif is gonna be crown exclusive too. And it goes downhill from there with separating crafters online to the ones having all in game motifs and those who were willing to pay the ones available only on the crown store.
My Proposes are those:
- make it a costume instead
- make it work like imperial style transmogrification for our current gear
- make it tradeable so even people in game can buy it somehow

Daz_dingoeb17_ESO · October 2016

Here is a link to one of reddit's post with discussion on the matter

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/55nlv9/crown_store_exclusive_motifs_pay_2_get_rich/

Teridaxus · October 2016

So...first crown crate controversy and now this?

DocFrost72 · October 2016

Daz_dingoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Here is a link to one of reddit's post with discussion on the matter

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/55nlv9/crown_store_exclusive_motifs_pay_2_get_rich/

Lol at that misinformation tho.

OP, the devs fixed a bug recently and listed it in patch notes. The bug dealt with "chapters of the Grim Harlequin style not granting you the ability to craft the style". This heavily implies that the motif is still in game, but people are going to flail and cry about the sky falling.

Could it be exclusive? Of course. Will it be? I don't think so.

NovaShadow · October 2016

I assumed it was available to farm in game during the event but also in the crown store for those that don't wanna farm it.

DocFrost72 · October 2016

NovaShadow wrote: »

I assumed it was available to farm in game during the event but also in the crown store for those that don't wanna farm it.

Best guess is that you are correct.

Daz_dingoeb17_ESO · October 2016

DocFrost72 wrote: »

OP, the devs fixed a bug recently and listed it in patch notes. The bug dealt with "chapters of the Grim Harlequin style not granting you the ability to craft the style".

That a bug existed not letting you craft the style has nothing to do with how you get the actual motif. There are no achievements in game related to the motif and people have stated that it didn't drop from the witches festival on pts. The description is different as well and its categorised as crown motif. I'm not speaking on speculations I have facts supporting my claims and I ask of zos to come forth and tell me that im wrong. Their silence though suggests that I'm correct.

Daz_dingoeb17_ESO · October 2016

NovaShadow wrote: »

I assumed it was available to farm in game during the event but also in the crown store for those that don't wanna farm it.

The style you can farm during the festival is hollowjack and not grim Harlequin's motif. As it seems they are planning on having seasonal timed exclusive motifs on the store from noe on and if I'm correct then stalhrim or frostcaster motif w/e it's called will have the same fate.

bottleofsyrup · October 2016

One thing I'll add is that on the PTS templates, the book to learn the Grim Harlequin style doesn't have the "Crown Store Motif" tag on it like the Stahlrim one does.

BruceLeeroy91 · October 2016

Style is ugly anyway...like really ugly lol. Looks like a worse trinimac honestly. Let be Exclusive, who cares its ugly.

Remember when everyone was all excited for ancient orc style and then it was super ugly and now no one wears it...I predict the same thing here except these people will get conned for real money.

Daz_dingoeb17_ESO · October 2016

BruceLeeroy91 wrote: »

Style is ugly anyway...like really ugly lol. Looks like a worse trinimac honestly. Let be Exclusive, who cares its ugly.

Remember when everyone was all excited for ancient orc style and then it was super ugly and now no one wears it...I predict the same thing here except these people will get conned for real money.

This is not the point. It's the first of many to come if we let it as is. If we don't say we have a problem with it the next thing you know we will see cool motifs locked behind the crown store or even worse crown crates

Daz_dingoeb17_ESO · October 2016

bottleofsyrup wrote: »

One thing I'll add is that on the PTS templates, the book to learn the Grim Harlequin style doesn't have the "Crown Store Motif" tag on it like the Stahlrim one does.

Well even then stalhrim motif will be exclusive and again the whole post is so we get some answers from zos so as to not have to speculate.

DocFrost72 · October 2016

Daz_dingoeb17_ESO wrote: »

bottleofsyrup wrote: »

One thing I'll add is that on the PTS templates, the book to learn the Grim Harlequin style doesn't have the "Crown Store Motif" tag on it like the Stahlrim one does.

Well even then stalhrim motif will be exclusive and again the whole post is so we get some answers from zos so as to not have to speculate.

Dude, take a breath. Why would zos even waste their time typing that they fixed a bug with chapters of a style you can't even get cause they "don't exist"?

I promise, it'll be okay. I was going to not respond, but you seem to think when that happens you're right.

Peekachu99 · October 2016

It's still just cosmetic. No statistical advantage is given if you're wearing armor in this style or not. I think what they're doing is quite clever, since you can buy actual progression and instance-filled content (DLC), everything that matters, a la carte, and never spend another dime if you so choose. My God, they're running a business, they need to make money. Game chuggs along half the time and you want to deprive them of more cosmetic-based income? The passion of angry gamers isn't enough to pay for servers, upgrades and DLC production.

As long as they don't go full PW and throw actual epic gear in the store, Idc.

DRXHarbinger · October 2016

Good to see the community team is doing it job recently. Still no word at all.

Ilsabet · October 2016

According to the dev tracker, there haven't been any dev posts at all since that Crown Store showcase was posted four days ago. That's weird in itself. I hope the team gets back around here to start talking to us again, especially with the big update happening tomorrow. You'd think they'd be all over it hyping that up.

Elsonso · October 2016

Peekachu99 wrote: »

My God, they're running a business, they need to make money. Game chuggs along half the time and you want to deprive them of more cosmetic-based income?

No, they do not need to make money. Many business fail, and properly so. Making money is the reward for doing something of value, it is not the fulfillment of a need. They remain a successful business when the reward is greater than the cost of being in business. If they cannot manage to do that, they they should be going out of business.

Further, it is not the responsibility of any of us to keep them in business. You did not say exactly this, but your statement strongly implies that we have a responsibility to give them money so they will fix their game. I am sure they appreciate the donations, and people can spend their money as they see fit, but we are just consumers and they are the business. We are not part of the team, and we are not investors. They have to provide value for the money that they ask for. As consumers, we can toss around our money as we want, but in the end, it is not our responsibility to keep them in business. If enough people are not willing to buy what they are selling, at the price they are selling it at, then they rightfully deserve to go out of business, or move to sell a product that has more value.

magnusthorek · October 2016

Everyone know my raging posts when I speak about the subtle and almost not noticeable downhill this game is taking to P2W...

Now suck it! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Daz_dingoeb17_ESO · October 2016

For all those who say I'm overreacting and there is nothing wrong all I have to say that I'll gladly admit I was wrong when zos claims something different from what I said. As for those who don't care if it will go in the store or not I don t know why you are here. You have nothing to gain out of it and zos should not make promises if they cannot keep them. I still remember them saying motifs would always be available in game when they firstly introduced them to the crown store.

Cazzy · October 2016

I'm sure someone can give us a quick yes or no response

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_MattFiror @ZOS_AlanG @ZOS_DaryaK @ZOS_PeterT @ZOS_JohanaB @ZOS_AntonioP @ZOS_KaiSchober

Korah_Eaglecry · October 2016

Im willing to bet this will be a Halloween LTO that we'll probably see year to year much like some of the other LTOs that were in the store last year and will be there this time around.

Slurg · October 2016

An employee jumped right on a similar thread last week to respond:

By moving the thread to the Crown Store section of the forum.

Peekachu99 · October 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

My God, they're running a business, they need to make money. Game chuggs along half the time and you want to deprive them of more cosmetic-based income?

No, they do not need to make money. Many business fail, and properly so. Making money is the reward for doing something of value, it is not the fulfillment of a need. They remain a successful business when the reward is greater than the cost of being in business. If they cannot manage to do that, they they should be going out of business.

Further, it is not the responsibility of any of us to keep them in business. You did not say exactly this, but your statement strongly implies that we have a responsibility to give them money so they will fix their game. I am sure they appreciate the donations, and people can spend their money as they see fit, but we are just consumers and they are the business. We are not part of the team, and we are not investors. They have to provide value for the money that they ask for. As consumers, we can toss around our money as we want, but in the end, it is not our responsibility to keep them in business. If enough people are not willing to buy what they are selling, at the price they are selling it at, then they rightfully deserve to go out of business, or move to sell a product that has more value.

I'd agree with you if this wasn't an online game that had exorbitant infrastructure costs necessary for you to enjoy (or hate) it. Do you expect them to provide this for backend free? Who's the charity now? Your argument is confusing and you sound as if you expect them to keep the servers on simply because they have earned your trust as a consumer--only that only works if you, the consumer, actually pay money to continue ongoing services and development. A good business is more of a mutual exchange, rather than one party emptying its pockets for the enjoyment of the other.

ZoS provide a product, we as a consumer determine if it's worth our investment. I'm not suggesting that we owe them anything. I am saying that I see crown store motifs as a fine investment, and do not see it as the "slippery-slope, pay-to-win" apocalypse.

Cazzy · October 2016

Jimmy goes to the shop to buy his weekly loaf of bread. The shopkeeper offers him rice.

"But I want bread." Said Jimmy. "I've always paid money for bread!"
"Sorry," the Shopkeeper replied "I'm giving you rice from now on."

Jimmy left the store never to return.

The End.

Daz_dingoeb17_ESO · October 2016

Peekachu99 wrote: »

I'd agree with you if this wasn't an online game that had exorbitant infrastructure costs necessary for you to enjoy (or hate) it. Do you expect them to provide this for backend free?

ZoS provide a product, we as a consumer determine if it's worth our investment. I'm not suggesting that we owe them anything. I am saying that I see crown store motifs as a fine investment, and do not see it as the "slippery-slope, pay-to-win" apocalypse.

Noone said it should be free, what he meant was that what goes for sale on the store should be subject to discussion and change cause if we as customers don't like the product then noone buys and yes they will go bankrupt. The same way there is a pts and a forum thread for feedback the same should be for the crown store and it's products. Another issue is that they made a promise that motifs would always be available in the game. I don't care if they are also on the crown store if there is a way to get them on the game. The way they do it now they take away for all of us who wanna be master crafters on their game. I wanna be able to craft everything in game through my efforts and not have zenimax have a carrot on a stick in front of me locking my playstyle behind the store. It will create a disadvantage to me as a crafter(maybe not immediately but when they release more of those yes). Cause people who care how their gear looks(and most do) will choose someone who has them for their needs. It's a p2w element onnthe crafting scene of the game and it's only the beginning that is what many don't seem to understand. If we don't stop it now once its live is too late

UrQuan · October 2016

Cazzy wrote: »

I'm sure someone can give us a quick yes or no response

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_MattFiror @ZOS_AlanG @ZOS_DaryaK @ZOS_PeterT @ZOS_JohanaB @ZOS_AntonioP @ZOS_KaiSchober

I'm sure someone can give us a quick yes or no response... I'm not so sure someone will give us a quick yes or no response. I think this is the 3rd or 4th thread I've seen asking this question since the Crown Store Showcase came out, and I haven't seen a response from ZOS in the others. Although at least one of the others got moved to the Crown Store forum...

tklawson · October 2016

Peekachu99 wrote: »

It's still just cosmetic. No statistical advantage is given if you're wearing armor in this style or not. I think what they're doing is quite clever, since you can buy actual progression and instance-filled content (DLC), everything that matters, a la carte, and never spend another dime if you so choose. My God, they're running a business, they need to make money. Game chuggs along half the time and you want to deprive them of more cosmetic-based income? The passion of angry gamers isn't enough to pay for servers, upgrades and DLC production.

As long as they don't go full PW and throw actual epic gear in the store, Idc.

It is cosmetic, yes, but some people actually RP as a crafter, and then have to pay real money just to be able to offer a style in game for fake money. Yes the style is just for looks, but this has an effect on the in game economy.

Elsonso · October 2016

Peekachu99 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

My God, they're running a business, they need to make money. Game chuggs along half the time and you want to deprive them of more cosmetic-based income?

No, they do not need to make money. Many business fail, and properly so. Making money is the reward for doing something of value, it is not the fulfillment of a need. They remain a successful business when the reward is greater than the cost of being in business. If they cannot manage to do that, they they should be going out of business.

Further, it is not the responsibility of any of us to keep them in business. You did not say exactly this, but your statement strongly implies that we have a responsibility to give them money so they will fix their game. I am sure they appreciate the donations, and people can spend their money as they see fit, but we are just consumers and they are the business. We are not part of the team, and we are not investors. They have to provide value for the money that they ask for. As consumers, we can toss around our money as we want, but in the end, it is not our responsibility to keep them in business. If enough people are not willing to buy what they are selling, at the price they are selling it at, then they rightfully deserve to go out of business, or move to sell a product that has more value.

I'd agree with you if this wasn't an online game that had exorbitant infrastructure costs necessary for you to enjoy (or hate) it. Do you expect them to provide this for backend free? Who's the charity now? Your argument is confusing and you sound as if you expect them to keep the servers on simply because they have earned your trust as a consumer--only that only works if you, the consumer, actually pay money to continue ongoing services and development. A good business is more of a mutual exchange, rather than one party emptying its pockets for the enjoyment of the other.

ZoS provide a product, we as a consumer determine if it's worth our investment. I'm not suggesting that we owe them anything. I am saying that I see crown store motifs as a fine investment, and do not see it as the "slippery-slope, pay-to-win" apocalypse.

Great. Sounds like we are in general agreement. It was not clear in your original post. You made me think they were somehow entitled to money and it was our job to provide it.

As a consumer, I have absolutely no obligation to pay anything they have not asked for, in return for the services they provide. It is not my problem how they pay for the servers and development staff. That is Matt Firor's problem. If he wants to ask for money to pay for that, he needs to provide something in return to me that is an equitable value for me, and it needs to be more than what I am getting today for free.

As for charity, I will say that I am entirely capable of playing this game without spending any additional money with ZOS or Bethesda to do so. I was perfectly willing to pay them monthly to play the game, and I am still paying them monthly to play the game. That was not good enough for them, and now they are perfectly fine with me not paying them anything. If that is the way they want to do business, and they want to drive me to do it that way, then that is what I will do.

One Tamriel let's me run around to anywhere, and that has value, but One Tamriel also narrows the game play (multiplayer economics) and that devalues the game. Both resource node and dungeon set policies in One Tamriel narrow the game and replace player-to-player interaction with game mechanics. Motifs are a free item in the game that they sell in the store for convenience. If they want me to pay 5000 Crowns (estimated) for any exclusive motif, they are removing something that is typically free and charging me for it, while providing no extra value. Why would I want to buy this? Why would I want to pay for any of this?

In terms of value, they are reducing the value of the game (to me) with no corresponding reduction in what I pay.

As to whether Grim Harlequin is going to be available in the game, all I can say is that the First Rule of ZOS PR states that silence is rarely good for the players.

luen79rwb17_ESO · October 2016

Slurg wrote: »

An employee jumped right on a similar thread last week to respond:

By moving the thread to the Crown Store section of the forum.

LOL that's more than enough for a response.

The issue here is not about a "cosmetic" item but rather about the potential to convert a crown store purchase into gold sales if people who buy the motif can craft gear and sell it to others. This would be the first way you can monetize in game your crown store purchases and that's what makes some people worried about it. And what's even worse another ZOS statement that don't stay true in time.

To solve this issue, they would have to make crafted gear with this motif BoP. I don't believe this feature was developed, someone would have to test on PTS.

Tandor · October 2016

Ilsabet wrote: »

According to the dev tracker, there haven't been any dev posts at all since that Crown Store showcase was posted four days ago. That's weird in itself. I hope the team gets back around here to start talking to us again, especially with the big update happening tomorrow. You'd think they'd be all over it hyping that up.

I wonder if they've got anything on this week that might account for their absence from the forums during the preparations for the biggest overall game update the game has ever seen?

Nope, can't think of anything.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · October 2016

Tandor wrote: »

Ilsabet wrote: »

According to the dev tracker, there haven't been any dev posts at all since that Crown Store showcase was posted four days ago. That's weird in itself. I hope the team gets back around here to start talking to us again, especially with the big update happening tomorrow. You'd think they'd be all over it hyping that up.

I wonder if they've got anything on this week that might account for their absence from the forums during the preparations for the biggest overall game update the game has ever seen?

Nope, can't think of anything.

You know it is strange the update really doesnt feel that big to me. They are moving stuff around and removing stuff, but outside of a bunch of monster sets they arent adding a whole lot. And before we jump into the vet/normal dungeons they arent new. Just rescaled versions of the old ones.

I mean i understand it is a lot of work. But it just doesnt feel big to me.