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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – November 18
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – November 19, 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EST (23:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: EU megaserver for maintenance – November 19, 23:00 UTC (6:00PM EST) - November 20, 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
Magicka/Stam Balance Complaints
Alright this post is gonna offend a lot of people most likely.
Right now 90%+ Magicka players complain about themselves feeling weak compared to Stamina right now.
I AM NOT in anyway saying there isnt an imbalance since DB. And Stam is def above magicka right IN MOST CASES.
There is an exception and I hope when Zos looks at balance they do not buff magplar. Imo the class is by far the best in the game followed by its stam counterpart.
Now, do you magicka builds recall every patch from Imp City - Thieves Guild? Or is that all lost memories?
Idk if you guys recall but magicka builds:
- Had every ult in the game scaling off magicka (excluding Leap)
- Had by far the best trait for weapons in Nirnhoned
- And last but not least a minimum 7k+ single target bomb in proxy det.
Thats not all. Magicka builds could build to the point where they would litterally one burst just about anybody in game while still have incredible sustain due to Lich/Julionos with det and dawnie.
Thats it for my rant I just wanted to remind you guys that minimal stam builds at that time complained. So take your nerf and stop bitching its been months since dark brotherhood. Every good Magicka player I know has adapted and they are strong once again....
Right now 90%+ Magicka players complain about themselves feeling weak compared to Stamina right now.
I AM NOT in anyway saying there isnt an imbalance since DB. And Stam is def above magicka right IN MOST CASES.
There is an exception and I hope when Zos looks at balance they do not buff magplar. Imo the class is by far the best in the game followed by its stam counterpart.
Now, do you magicka builds recall every patch from Imp City - Thieves Guild? Or is that all lost memories?
Idk if you guys recall but magicka builds:
- Had every ult in the game scaling off magicka (excluding Leap)
- Had by far the best trait for weapons in Nirnhoned
- And last but not least a minimum 7k+ single target bomb in proxy det.
Thats not all. Magicka builds could build to the point where they would litterally one burst just about anybody in game while still have incredible sustain due to Lich/Julionos with det and dawnie.
Thats it for my rant I just wanted to remind you guys that minimal stam builds at that time complained. So take your nerf and stop bitching its been months since dark brotherhood. Every good Magicka player I know has adapted and they are strong once again....
2
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strikeback1247✭✭✭✭✭
✭That's how things go around here.
Stam is strong --> magicka players complain --> stam gets nerfed --> magicka is strong --> stam players complain --> magicka gets nerfed --> stam is strong again.
It's an endless cycleP.A.W.S. - Positively Against Wild Sasquatches - NO TO BIGFOOT!3 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭vl_Game_lv wrote: »Alright this post is gonna offend a lot of people most likely.
Right now 90%+ Magicka players complain about themselves feeling weak compared to Stamina right now.
I AM NOT in anyway saying there isnt an imbalance since DB. And Stam is def above magicka right IN MOST CASES.
There is an exception and I hope when Zos looks at balance they do not buff magplar. Imo the class is by far the best in the game followed by its stam counterpart.
Now, do you magicka builds recall every patch from Imp City - Thieves Guild? Or is that all lost memories?
Idk if you guys recall but magicka builds:
- Had every ult in the game scaling off magicka (excluding Leap)
- Had by far the best trait for weapons in Nirnhoned
- And last but not least a minimum 7k+ single target bomb in proxy det.
Thats not all. Magicka builds could build to the point where they would litterally one burst just about anybody in game while still have incredible sustain due to Lich/Julionos with det and dawnie.
Thats it for my rant I just wanted to remind you guys that minimal stam builds at that time complained. So take your nerf and stop bitching its been months since dark brotherhood. Every good Magicka player I know has adapted and they are strong once again....
So basically you are saying "yes stamina is broken OP but that's OK because magicka was broken OP in the past".
Or in other words, "it is OK for you to magicka to suffer, because stamina used to suffer before"
I do not see how that's relevant. What about the people who were not playing magicka when it was OP? What about magicka players who joined the game only after magicka stopped to be OP?
It is never OK for something to be broken just because something else used to be broken in the past. That reasoning is deeply flawed. We have to look at the game as it is NOW, and balance what we are playing NOW. Past is past, and irrelevant.Edited by Sharee on 7 September 2016 06:576 -
Luigi_Vampa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ummm, a lot of stamina players complained. Do you not remember the endless, Elder Staves Online and I don't want to wear a dress threads? Or do you selectively choose to forget? The point is, if there is an imbalance, it should be fixed. How long must it be imbalanced before you think it should be fixed? And all of those strong magicka players you know would be even better on stam because it out preforms magicka in every single way.PC/EU DC1 -
vl_Game_lv wrote: »Alright this post is gonna offend a lot of people most likely.
Right now 90%+ Magicka players complain about themselves feeling weak compared to Stamina right now.
I AM NOT in anyway saying there isnt an imbalance since DB. And Stam is def above magicka right IN MOST CASES.
There is an exception and I hope when Zos looks at balance they do not buff magplar. Imo the class is by far the best in the game followed by its stam counterpart.
Now, do you magicka builds recall every patch from Imp City - Thieves Guild? Or is that all lost memories?
Idk if you guys recall but magicka builds:
- Had every ult in the game scaling off magicka (excluding Leap)
- Had by far the best trait for weapons in Nirnhoned
- And last but not least a minimum 7k+ single target bomb in proxy det.
Thats not all. Magicka builds could build to the point where they would litterally one burst just about anybody in game while still have incredible sustain due to Lich/Julionos with det and dawnie.
Thats it for my rant I just wanted to remind you guys that minimal stam builds at that time complained. So take your nerf and stop bitching its been months since dark brotherhood. Every good Magicka player I know has adapted and they are strong once again....
So basically you are saying "yes stamina is broken OP but that's OK because magicka was broken OP in the past".
Or in other words, "it is OK for you to magicka to suffer, because stamina used to suffer before"
I do not see how that's relevant. What about the people who were not playing magicka when it was OP? What about magicka players who joined the game only after magicka stopped to be OP?
It is never OK for something to be broken just because something else used to be broken in the past. That reasoning is deeply flawed. We have to look at the game as it is NOW, and balance what we are playing NOW. Past is past, and irrelevant.
You're right I never said the imbalance is ok. I said they need to adapt and stop complaining because stam dealt with it much longer. Stam is gonna get a huge nerf eventually...1 -
Ummm, a lot of stamina players complained. Do you not remember the endless, Elder Staves Online and I don't want to wear a dress threads? Or do you selectively choose to forget? The point is, if there is an imbalance, it should be fixed. How long must it be imbalanced before you think it should be fixed? And all of those strong magicka players you know would be even better on stam because it out preforms magicka in every single way.
^^ This is exactly what I am talking about0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭vl_Game_lv wrote: »vl_Game_lv wrote: »Alright this post is gonna offend a lot of people most likely.
Right now 90%+ Magicka players complain about themselves feeling weak compared to Stamina right now.
I AM NOT in anyway saying there isnt an imbalance since DB. And Stam is def above magicka right IN MOST CASES.
There is an exception and I hope when Zos looks at balance they do not buff magplar. Imo the class is by far the best in the game followed by its stam counterpart.
Now, do you magicka builds recall every patch from Imp City - Thieves Guild? Or is that all lost memories?
Idk if you guys recall but magicka builds:
- Had every ult in the game scaling off magicka (excluding Leap)
- Had by far the best trait for weapons in Nirnhoned
- And last but not least a minimum 7k+ single target bomb in proxy det.
Thats not all. Magicka builds could build to the point where they would litterally one burst just about anybody in game while still have incredible sustain due to Lich/Julionos with det and dawnie.
Thats it for my rant I just wanted to remind you guys that minimal stam builds at that time complained. So take your nerf and stop bitching its been months since dark brotherhood. Every good Magicka player I know has adapted and they are strong once again....
So basically you are saying "yes stamina is broken OP but that's OK because magicka was broken OP in the past".
Or in other words, "it is OK for you to magicka to suffer, because stamina used to suffer before"
I do not see how that's relevant. What about the people who were not playing magicka when it was OP? What about magicka players who joined the game only after magicka stopped to be OP?
It is never OK for something to be broken just because something else used to be broken in the past. That reasoning is deeply flawed. We have to look at the game as it is NOW, and balance what we are playing NOW. Past is past, and irrelevant.
You're right I never said the imbalance is ok. I said they need to adapt and stop complaining because stam dealt with it much longer. Stam is gonna get a huge nerf eventually...
That's the point i'm trying to make - whether stam dealt with something in the past and for how long does not matter today.
People should not stop complaining. If there is an imbalance, they should continue complaining until that imbalance is fixed.
And just for the record, i have been playing a stamina nightblade at game release (no vigor, no stam morphs of class skills at all) so i know everything about what stam had to go through. It should not affect current game balance tho.Edited by Sharee on 7 September 2016 07:182 -
Luigi_Vampa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭vl_Game_lv wrote: »Ummm, a lot of stamina players complained. Do you not remember the endless, Elder Staves Online and I don't want to wear a dress threads? Or do you selectively choose to forget? The point is, if there is an imbalance, it should be fixed. How long must it be imbalanced before you think it should be fixed? And all of those strong magicka players you know would be even better on stam because it out preforms magicka in every single way.
^^ This is exactly what I am talking about
What is? The fact that stamina players complained endlessly because of the imbalance and how they didn't want to play magicka characters? There doesn't need to be this divide. I don't want one or the other to be stronger. I would much rather a level playing ground, but telling magicka players to stop complaining because stamina users once had it bad too is stupid. What really is the point of this thread? People are going to complain about balance issues, regardless of what was the case in the past.Edited by Luigi_Vampa on 7 September 2016 07:11PC/EU DC3 -
Bakven✭✭✭Forget which one was the meta in the past. it doesn't matter which one is the meta right now nor how long the other one was weaker. Telling magicka users to stop complaining and get good is the most *** dumb thing to say. That just continues the balance issues and doesn't address the problem which is @Zos doesn't know how to balance the game to save their lives. If something is unbalanced everyone should complain so it can be fixed. Telling people to stop because you're tired of hearing it just means you're part of the problem.EP NA Haderus
Iscangar- Mageblade (retired pvp; pve only now)
Emlyn Medresi - Magicka DK
Soon to come
Vash'rassa- Stamblade
-Tiffany - Stam DK
Trokaar - Mageblade (vamp/Iscangar 2.0)1 -
Ankael07✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This exact mindset of '' well magicka was op before its stamina's turn'' allows Zenimax' combat and itemization designers to go around freely mess up pvp like this. I mean look at all the threads about 1 shot builds containing vipers sting, velindreth, widowmaker and red mountain. What did they do about it? Add another 1 shot monster set called Selene's Visage that procs every 4 seconds, buff Velindreth's cooldown by 1 second.If you want me to reply to your comment type @Ankael07 in it.0 -
juhasman✭✭✭✭vl_Game_lv wrote: »vl_Game_lv wrote: »Alright this post is gonna offend a lot of people most likely.
Right now 90%+ Magicka players complain about themselves feeling weak compared to Stamina right now.
I AM NOT in anyway saying there isnt an imbalance since DB. And Stam is def above magicka right IN MOST CASES.
There is an exception and I hope when Zos looks at balance they do not buff magplar. Imo the class is by far the best in the game followed by its stam counterpart.
Now, do you magicka builds recall every patch from Imp City - Thieves Guild? Or is that all lost memories?
Idk if you guys recall but magicka builds:
- Had every ult in the game scaling off magicka (excluding Leap)
- Had by far the best trait for weapons in Nirnhoned
- And last but not least a minimum 7k+ single target bomb in proxy det.
Thats not all. Magicka builds could build to the point where they would litterally one burst just about anybody in game while still have incredible sustain due to Lich/Julionos with det and dawnie.
Thats it for my rant I just wanted to remind you guys that minimal stam builds at that time complained. So take your nerf and stop bitching its been months since dark brotherhood. Every good Magicka player I know has adapted and they are strong once again....
So basically you are saying "yes stamina is broken OP but that's OK because magicka was broken OP in the past".
Or in other words, "it is OK for you to magicka to suffer, because stamina used to suffer before"
I do not see how that's relevant. What about the people who were not playing magicka when it was OP? What about magicka players who joined the game only after magicka stopped to be OP?
It is never OK for something to be broken just because something else used to be broken in the past. That reasoning is deeply flawed. We have to look at the game as it is NOW, and balance what we are playing NOW. Past is past, and irrelevant.
You're right I never said the imbalance is ok. I said they need to adapt and stop complaining because stam dealt with it much longer. Stam is gonna get a huge nerf eventually...
If You thing builds that are weak should adapt and stop complaining then why stamina get buffed in last few udates and people was creating many threads asking for help to stamina? Why they couldnt just adapt....Edited by juhasman on 7 September 2016 07:570 -
vl_Game_lv wrote: »vl_Game_lv wrote: »Alright this post is gonna offend a lot of people most likely.
Right now 90%+ Magicka players complain about themselves feeling weak compared to Stamina right now.
I AM NOT in anyway saying there isnt an imbalance since DB. And Stam is def above magicka right IN MOST CASES.
There is an exception and I hope when Zos looks at balance they do not buff magplar. Imo the class is by far the best in the game followed by its stam counterpart.
Now, do you magicka builds recall every patch from Imp City - Thieves Guild? Or is that all lost memories?
Idk if you guys recall but magicka builds:
- Had every ult in the game scaling off magicka (excluding Leap)
- Had by far the best trait for weapons in Nirnhoned
- And last but not least a minimum 7k+ single target bomb in proxy det.
Thats not all. Magicka builds could build to the point where they would litterally one burst just about anybody in game while still have incredible sustain due to Lich/Julionos with det and dawnie.
Thats it for my rant I just wanted to remind you guys that minimal stam builds at that time complained. So take your nerf and stop bitching its been months since dark brotherhood. Every good Magicka player I know has adapted and they are strong once again....
So basically you are saying "yes stamina is broken OP but that's OK because magicka was broken OP in the past".
Or in other words, "it is OK for you to magicka to suffer, because stamina used to suffer before"
I do not see how that's relevant. What about the people who were not playing magicka when it was OP? What about magicka players who joined the game only after magicka stopped to be OP?
It is never OK for something to be broken just because something else used to be broken in the past. That reasoning is deeply flawed. We have to look at the game as it is NOW, and balance what we are playing NOW. Past is past, and irrelevant.
You're right I never said the imbalance is ok. I said they need to adapt and stop complaining because stam dealt with it much longer. Stam is gonna get a huge nerf eventually...
If You thing builds that are weak should adapt and stop complaining then why stamina get buffed in last few udates and people was creating many threads asking for help to stamina? Why they couldnt just adapt....
Cause the only player that I know who complained about stam pre dark brother hood were garbage players.0 -
Point is that balance we are seeking doesnt come outside of a perfect world. Its an MMO classes/skills/magicka/stam will always have a meta. People can complain. There complaining will only go back and forth. Have fun with a magicka buff that will make magplar the dumbest thing since mag dk...0
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Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Lol. I remember how staminavl_Game_lv wrote: »Alright this post is gonna offend a lot of people most likely.
Now, do you magicka builds recall every patch from Imp City - Thieves Guild? Or is that all lost memories?
Idk if you guys recall but magicka builds:
- Had every ult in the game scaling off magicka (excluding Leap)
- Had by far the best trait for weapons in Nirnhoned
- And last but not least a minimum 7k+ single target bomb in proxy det.
Thats not all. Magicka builds could build to the point where they would litterally one burst just about anybody in game while still have incredible sustain due to Lich/Julionos with det and dawnie.
- had twice the amount of armor over light armor
- had a CP star that boosted ALL attacks whereas magicka had to split between Elemental Expert and Thaumaturge
- had a CP to weaken incoming magic damage, but a stamina defense star didn't exist
- could ignore Annulment
- had overall more weapon damage and skills imbued with penetration
And the Lich set was bumped to CP160 just recently, when stamina was already pulling ahaead.
Cute how stamina builds are so ignorant to the old days just because there was a short VD period where magblades ruled supremely.
1 -
juhasman✭✭✭✭vl_Game_lv wrote: »vl_Game_lv wrote: »vl_Game_lv wrote: »Alright this post is gonna offend a lot of people most likely.
Right now 90%+ Magicka players complain about themselves feeling weak compared to Stamina right now.
I AM NOT in anyway saying there isnt an imbalance since DB. And Stam is def above magicka right IN MOST CASES.
There is an exception and I hope when Zos looks at balance they do not buff magplar. Imo the class is by far the best in the game followed by its stam counterpart.
Now, do you magicka builds recall every patch from Imp City - Thieves Guild? Or is that all lost memories?
Idk if you guys recall but magicka builds:
- Had every ult in the game scaling off magicka (excluding Leap)
- Had by far the best trait for weapons in Nirnhoned
- And last but not least a minimum 7k+ single target bomb in proxy det.
Thats not all. Magicka builds could build to the point where they would litterally one burst just about anybody in game while still have incredible sustain due to Lich/Julionos with det and dawnie.
Thats it for my rant I just wanted to remind you guys that minimal stam builds at that time complained. So take your nerf and stop bitching its been months since dark brotherhood. Every good Magicka player I know has adapted and they are strong once again....
So basically you are saying "yes stamina is broken OP but that's OK because magicka was broken OP in the past".
Or in other words, "it is OK for you to magicka to suffer, because stamina used to suffer before"
I do not see how that's relevant. What about the people who were not playing magicka when it was OP? What about magicka players who joined the game only after magicka stopped to be OP?
It is never OK for something to be broken just because something else used to be broken in the past. That reasoning is deeply flawed. We have to look at the game as it is NOW, and balance what we are playing NOW. Past is past, and irrelevant.
You're right I never said the imbalance is ok. I said they need to adapt and stop complaining because stam dealt with it much longer. Stam is gonna get a huge nerf eventually...
If You thing builds that are weak should adapt and stop complaining then why stamina get buffed in last few udates and people was creating many threads asking for help to stamina? Why they couldnt just adapt....
Cause the only player that I know who complained about stam pre dark brother hood were garbage players.
Hmm so if in Your opinion the only players that complained about stamina in the past was garbage players that means 2 things 1st most of the stamina players in the past was garbage 2nd stamina was fine so why it get buffed?...
Yes I am little trolling but You sound here like a guy who just want his stamina build to be too good as long as it can and dont want other builds to be competitive. It's one of the the main reasons why forums in MMO's exist ; allow players to speak about things which they thing are inballanced and even complain about them. If people would not complain how developers would know what to do and what is people feedback on their changes or is certain change a good one? You want to take off the voice of others only because You play stamina build which is on the top right now? How would You feel if in update 13 stamina would get nerf to the ground? Would You be fine with that and quietly sit and wait for better times? Or maybe You would reroll to magicka like classic FotM players doing?Edited by juhasman on 7 September 2016 09:491 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stamina has always been better than magicka after 1.6 with the exception of the op magicka sorc but the top 3 classes were mag sorc, stam blade, stam dk. Idk what every one was talking about some stamina classes struggled mainly stam sorc but the other ones were pretty good especially for solo small group play. And it was on that magicka had ultimates that hit harder because the stamina weapon skills hit harder than normal magicka abilities. I will say that magicka was way better at large group play when vicious death came out. When people refer to how good magicka was I think they are only thinking of how good mag sorc was and aren't thinking about the other 3 classes0 -
Metemsycosis✭✭✭✭I'm glad people "complain" seeing as if no one did how would there be changes?
For the longest time most magicka templars and dks were basically free kills in open world (up until the proxy meteor gapclose combos), but so was any stam character without a shield - they simply couldn't heal through anything in a consistent manner. Forced to use engine guardian in pvp for a three percent chance of a heal beam. And sorcs were almost impossible to do anything against even opposite 5-6 players. Not all magicka classes were balanced or are balanced with each other, much less as a comparison between magicka and stamina varieties. Personally I think it's closer between magicka characters than at anytime since I started - but these stamina/weapon sets that don't require any resources to pull high damage? (I had mephala on my magicka nb but now I don't meaning my free dps moved where it wasn't needed. )Plus the already low cost of highly spammable dps that has really nice chunk damage attached? Meanwhile look at crushing shock and concealed weapon and whip and vampires bane or whatever it's called and tell me the cost to damage is anywhere near fair.
Anyway I hope they leave stamina healing as it is and put some of the gear in check the way they did with cyrodiils light, for example. Mostly because I also think that balance between stamina classes is pretty close, now. I don't hear a lot of..."my stam class sucks compared to that stam class." Which means maybe zos does know something about balance after all.Edited by Metemsycosis on 8 September 2016 09:19Terethea Magdalena, Breton Nightblade
A Dark-Adapted Eye, Imperial Necromancer
sanguinare vampiris
https://m.twitch.tv/amcrenshaw/profile0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It´s not magica that´s the problem. It´s light armor that is severely lacking compared to medium and heavy.
Magplar is ooh soo good atm because it synergises very well with heavy armor.
Buffing light armor will help all magica builds to varying degree without helping the dreaded heavy malu tankplars.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Metemsycosis✭✭✭✭What like increased Max magicka for every light armor piece?Terethea Magdalena, Breton Nightblade
A Dark-Adapted Eye, Imperial Necromancer
sanguinare vampiris
https://m.twitch.tv/amcrenshaw/profile0 -
Pandorii✭✭✭✭✭
✭Two wrongs doesn't make a right. XD stamina should be worried about balance too. If not, they'll be facing a bunch of their own kind. If it's not magicka getting slaughtered by Stam anymore because all the magicka left, they'll just be slaughtering each other.
Really, most people at this point play both Stam and magicka, though they might prefer one play style over the other (like me). It's so easy to get an alt to 50. Balance will benefit everyone and make the game more fun, not just for magicka players.0