Racial passive "flavorful" buffs. Wtf, ZOS?

davey1107 · August 2016

So on ESO live, they discussed new "flavorful" passives that only add character to the races. They wouldn't do anything controversial, they said. Then their stoner skills team got really high, wanted to put in an hour work then go drinking, amd came up with an AWFUL set of unbalanced passive. Here's what I mean:

Dark elves, 50% lava damage reduction. Ok, so this was cited as their example of what they wanted. Yeah, that's cool - it doesn't really change combat and adds a fun feature. Argonians keep their swim speed. Then we start getting stupid.

Khajiit get a 5% pickpocket buff. Ooooookay...what happened to these providing no benefit? A lot of gameplay involves picking pockets. This isn't a huge gain, but khajiit will benefit all the time while dark elves benefit from the 0.000001% of time you spend near freaking lava in this game.

Orcs get a 10% inspiration boost. WTF? This isn't flavor, it's an outright buff, idiots. It costs 30 CPs to get a 20% boost, so the value of this is 15 CPs. Sorry dark elves, hope you like lava ***...cause that's what you get.

High elves and Bretons get a 1% boost to XP and AP respectively. Wtf?? One, this isn't flavorful since players experience nothing but slightly higher numbers flashing on their screen. Sure it's not a big buff, but think about how much XP you earn to get to CP 501. 100 million?

Wood elves get 10% reduced fall damage. This one is really annoying because fall damage factors in pvp...a lot. Why should a wood elf be more protected from falling off a keep wall? This IS A COMBAT BUFF.

Nords get 15 minutes on drinks. WELL THAT'S EFFING FAIR IN A GAME WHERE XP POTIONS THAT COST 4000 ARE DRINKS. That's a 33% boost to psijic runs. Ugh...how did you guys not see that was idiotic??

This isn't a huge issue, but it speaks to the stupidity of the skills team. All they had to do was come up with nine different but similar fun passives, and they phoned it in and created a set where some offer pretty huge advantages, while others are worthless. Fail, guys...fail.

incognito222 · August 2016

You do realize that the points mentioned would have been understood all the same (if not better) without frequent use of expletives and insults ? If you feel that paying for a service entitles you to be rude and condescending, then I suggest you rethink your approach as people would be hesitant to listen to your actual feedback.

Having said that, I understand that you are dissapointed with the changes. And you have a valid point as racial passives have room for improvement to be more beneficial across the board.

Posting feedback and discussing in a polite and constructive way is the way to go if we are to improve this game as a community. I hope the developers are able to help you with your feedback.

I apologise to the thread starter if my comments offended in any way, and I wish him / her the best to get the above highlighted concerns addressed.

davey1107 · August 2016

I didn't use any expletives, I used euphemisms for expletives. This is perhaps a geographical cultural translation issue, but that's how we speak in California when we're being sarcastic funny. I write the posts in that style because this is a game whose audience skews young amd male...know your audience.

Skinzz · August 2016

Its just a free passive. Its not like they removed or changed an existing passive. Nothing wrong with it at all.

Izaki · August 2016

xskinzcity wrote: »

Its just a free passive. Its not like they removed or changed an existing passive. Nothing wrong with it at all.

Did you even read the OP?....

newtinmpls · August 2016

davey1107 wrote: »

I didn't use any expletives, I used euphemisms for expletives.

I don't see how saying (for example) "F-ing stupid" is somehow less offensive than spelling it out (and in a forum with a profanity checker, it's ultimately MORE expressive/explicit).

davey1107 wrote: »

I write the posts in that style because this is a game whose audience skews young amd male...know your audience.

Apparently you haven't been reading the surveys on average age and gender in this particular game.

To the content.

Dark Elves and lava.... I like it. It does add flavor.

Khajiit. Well if that is a cultural "thing" then it is kind of logical, and personally I'm not going to hype about 5% being a game breaking bennie.

Orsimer and inspiration? Well, I would have only applied it to smithing (as I think of that as a cultural sort of specialty). So I can sort a see it. Also, crafting is fun and interesting, but not a game-breaking thing.

Altmer 1% to XP... my guess is this is meant to represent the likely effect of being extraordinarily long-lived. Lots of incidental experience/learning that could take place in that time. Now I personally might have dumped into cloth/crafting as I see them as more concerned with art and beauty (and this is the easy place to plop it) but I'm okay.

Bretons 1% to AP.... well, I bet this was originally going to be an Imperial bennie, but that would be too close to P2W (since you have to pay to be Imperial) so this made that bennie more accessible. Again, I would have done something with magicka, but that's me.

Wood Elves reduced falling damage. Well, I started ES in Morrowind, and they could essentially talk their way of any conflict with a critter - that would be a HUGE combat buff, so this is kinda small (by comparison). Again, I don't agree with the falling, but It's not game breaking (too me).

Nords - drinks - Nords - drinks .... um can't stop giggling long enough to object to this. Maybe it's OP but I think it's so cool that I really don't care.

Tyrion87 · August 2016

I still don't understand how exactly these "buffs" can change anybody's life? They are almost unnoticeable during the gameplay, don't give any significant advantage and don't affect any builds to the extent that some races would be completely useless in a certain class. And yes, for me they represent the nature of each race.

If you think they are unbalanced and game breaking, I think that you wouldn't agree on any other possible changes to the racials because.... grumblers will remain grumblers.

Rosveen · August 2016

newtinmpls wrote: »

Khajiit. Well if that is a cultural "thing" then it is kind of logical, and personally I'm not going to hype about 5% being a game breaking bennie.

It's not. The loremaster must have been on vacation when ZOS invented these racials.

"Khajiit are thieves" is a stereotype that ZOS elevated to inherent race-wide predisposition. It's not horrible, it has precedent in single player games, but it's harmful to the race's image and there's another more lore-appropriate way to use this. The passive should go to Bosmer, who are also known for their deftness and actually consider theft an art form as a culture (look up Right of Theft). Khajiit, being agile cats, should get reduced fall damage.

The Dunmer passive is called Ashlander when Ashlanders are a very specific group, usually rather isolated from the rest of Dunmer society. Was there really no other name they could use for this passive?

Imperials got the gold bonus which is alright, but fits the shrewd Breton merchants just as well. In turn, Bretons got the AP bonus which should go to Imperial fighting on their home turf. Would it inch dangerously close to P2W, as you noted? Then it shouldn't be a racial passive at all! It either is too strong or it isn't, and if it is then it's unfair on any race.

In general, I think we should do away with fixed racial passives and have customizable character backgrounds instead. Almost all passives are cultural anyway, so why not let us have +5% pickpocket as a Nord street child or a stronger head as a Redguard sailor? (wait, isn't it actually a weaker head if the drink's influence lasts longer?)

newtinmpls · August 2016

Rosveen wrote: »

"Khajiit are thieves" is a stereotype that ZOS elevated to inherent race-wide predisposition. It's not horrible, it has precedent in single player games

If it's got precedent than I don't worry about it too much. As for prejudice and racist - that's all over ES and is part of it's weird charm.

Rosveen wrote: »

but it's harmful to the race's image and there's another more lore-appropriate way to use this. The passive should go to Bosmer, who are also known for their deftness and actually consider theft an art form as a culture (look up Right of Theft).

After being horrified at the hash ZoS made of the "green pact" I just take it as given that they are either clueless about ES racial/cultural stuff and/or take it to new racist/bizarre heights and I don't take it seriously. Not worth the effort.

Rosveen wrote: »

Khajiit, being agile cats, should get reduced fall damage.

Hey, cool idea!

Rosveen wrote: »

The Dunmer passive is called Ashlander when Ashlanders are a very specific group, usually rather isolated from the rest of Dunmer society. Was there really no other name they could use for this passive?

Again see comments about ZoS' cultural issues above.

Rosveen wrote: »

In general, I think we should do away with fixed racial passives and have customizable character backgrounds instead.

Nope, no, not at all.

I like them, irritating and unfair as they are. It's part of ES.

Rosveen · August 2016

newtinmpls wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

In general, I think we should do away with fixed racial passives and have customizable character backgrounds instead.

Nope, no, not at all.

I like them, irritating and unfair as they are. It's part of ES.

Part of ES, you say? In that case, I say let's go back to our roots. Would you be opposed to reflecting a mix of racial predispositions and individual preferences?

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Character_Creation

Unsent.Soul · August 2016

Where was OP when this was being discussed weeks/month ago? Little late to bicker now....

Armitas · August 2016

Im more upset with the fact that while stuff is on fire and burning down around them they decided to spend thier time buffing the depth of RP on racials.

MalagenR · August 2016

I feel like these passives are flavorful. A couple of xp buffs and random stuff that barely matters? Maybe if you're a hardcore Max/Min person, but even then you're talking about inconsequential amounts. This is pretty cool.

Jar_Ek · August 2016

This was all mentioned on the PTS... to no effect.

MalakithAlamahdi · August 2016

I don't understand the crying about a 1% increase. You will not notice it at all. Even with the AP, you'll save like 30 minutes most with that to get from 1-50, and it doesn't even get you anything but a color...which will not affect gameplay in any way.

10% for the fall damage is quite a bit, but since a drop from a keep wall is usually around 5k damage, it will matter only 500hp, which is not really something to complain about either if you ask me, it's lower then most characters health regen.

This just seems like the typical "complaining because i like complaining" post. Instead fix the bugs that have been in this game for years and the preformance in PvP that's still pitfully bad after 2+ years.

davey1107 · August 2016

@rosveen you make a old point about the weird stereotyping. The fact that all khajiit are traders was kind of odd, but now that they're sort of stereotypes as pick-pockets, it has a sort of ugly racial connotation that feels too close to anti-semitism.

It's just a game...not to be taken that seriously...but still.

davey1107 · August 2016

@MalakithAlamahdi I would wholeheartedly never mention the poor passives again if ZOS fixed pvp lag. In fact, if they fixed pvp lag I'd give up complaining entirely.

SleepyTroll · August 2016

Creativity died at ZOS when they fired the spell crafting guy.

Brrrofski · August 2016

1% xp and ap boost means per MILLION you get 10k. For ap, that's a handful of kills. Not gonna see only breton emp, don't worry about that

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO · August 2016

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Creativity died at ZOS when they fired the spell crafting guy.

I've said it once, I'll say it again.

WORST. DECISION. EVER.

imredneckson · August 2016

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Creativity died at ZOS when they fired the spell crafting guy.

THEY DID WHAT!?!?! T^T I was really looking forward to that :"(

acw37162 · August 2016

davey1107 wrote: »

I didn't use any expletives, I used euphemisms for expletives. This is perhaps a geographical cultural translation issue, but that's how we speak in California when we're being sarcastic funny. I write the posts in that style because this is a game whose audience skews young amd male...know your audience.

Your may have meant sarcastic and funny but it comes across as pissy and angry.

And for the record I'm a natural English speaker albeit not from California.

newtinmpls · August 2016

acw37162 wrote: »

Your may have meant sarcastic and funny but it comes across as pissy and angry.

And for the record I'm a natural English speaker albeit not from California.

Agree.

Born in California, but raised in the Midwest.

Rosveen · August 2016

davey1107 wrote: »

@rosveen you make a old point about the weird stereotyping. The fact that all khajiit are traders was kind of odd, but now that they're sort of stereotypes as pick-pockets, it has a sort of ugly racial connotation that feels too close to anti-semitism.

It's just a game...not to be taken that seriously...but still.

Anti-semitism never occured to me. Arabs, Persians, Gypsies, heck, I'd think of Hispanics before I thought of Jews. I don't see the connection.

AfkNinja · August 2016

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Creativity died at ZOS when they fired the spell crafting guy.

I've said it once, I'll say it again.

WORST. DECISION. EVER.

Never would have worked without softcaps anyway. Potential for broken skills is just "Too damn high!".

Qbiken · August 2016

Solution to your problem OP. If you want a certain buff pick the race you want for that purpose. And besides: Is this really a problem/issue??......My faith for the community is lost once again

QuebraRegra · August 2016

newtinmpls wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

I didn't use any expletives, I used euphemisms for expletives.

I don't see how saying (for example) "F-ing stupid" is somehow less offensive than spelling it out (and in a forum with a profanity checker, it's ultimately MORE expressive/explicit).

davey1107 wrote: »

I write the posts in that style because this is a game whose audience skews young amd male...know your audience.

Apparently you haven't been reading the surveys on average age and gender in this particular game.

To the content.

Dark Elves and lava.... I like it. It does add flavor.

Khajiit. Well if that is a cultural "thing" then it is kind of logical, and personally I'm not going to hype about 5% being a game breaking bennie.

Orsimer and inspiration? Well, I would have only applied it to smithing (as I think of that as a cultural sort of specialty). So I can sort a see it. Also, crafting is fun and interesting, but not a game-breaking thing.

Altmer 1% to XP... my guess is this is meant to represent the likely effect of being extraordinarily long-lived. Lots of incidental experience/learning that could take place in that time. Now I personally might have dumped into cloth/crafting as I see them as more concerned with art and beauty (and this is the easy place to plop it) but I'm okay.

Bretons 1% to AP.... well, I bet this was originally going to be an Imperial bennie, but that would be too close to P2W (since you have to pay to be Imperial) so this made that bennie more accessible. Again, I would have done something with magicka, but that's me.

Wood Elves reduced falling damage. Well, I started ES in Morrowind, and they could essentially talk their way of any conflict with a critter - that would be a HUGE combat buff, so this is kinda small (by comparison). Again, I don't agree with the falling, but It's not game breaking (too me).

Nords - drinks - Nords - drinks .... um can't stop giggling long enough to object to this. Maybe it's OP but I think it's so cool that I really don't care.

Would luv to have seen a Bosmer "charm animal" passive, wherein on the first attck of an animal it would turn "freindly" for a time... some really long CD would be in order.

Jar_Ek · August 2016

Actually I do sort of agree with the OP that the fluff passives are not very balanced, but the impact is so vanishingly small I really can't be worried about it... oh and I'm an Argonian, so I don't have the best fluff passive.