Zergs are not all bad...

k9mouse · August 2016

Zergs are not all bad. There are some good aspects of being in a zerg. For example, A person can be a hardcore PVE'er, but total suck on 1 on 1 PVP battles or do not have the patients sit around to gank someone. (I do not like gankers, anyways). Only other option for hardcore PVPer's is to join a group (5, 10 or even 24 members) to enjoy PVP content. I am a hardcore PVE'er, but I am such a noob in terms of what keeps to take in PVP and the long term goals to win a campaign. So I just be a good foot soldier and follow a leader. People who are like me, zergs can be fun to be in.

When I want to take a break from PVE content, I will do some PVP for a week or two. Yes, there are some major downsides of zergs, but they are not pure evil either.

I really enjoy IC's sewers, but I need a group to protect myself from gankers / hard core PVP'ers. I am sure many others feel the same way. What are your thoughts on this matter if you suck 1 on 1 PVP, but enjoy large battles?

yodased · August 2016

I suck at 1v1 but I also don't like ball groups, so I just die a lot.

Lysette · August 2016

k9mouse wrote: »

Zergs are not all bad. There are some good aspects of being in a zerg. For example, A person can be a hardcore PVE'er, but total suck on 1 on 1 PVP battles or do not have the patients sit around to gank someone. (I do not like gankers, anyways). Only other option for hardcore PVPer's is to join a group (5, 10 or even 24 members) to enjoy PVP content. I am a hardcore PVE'er, but I am such a noob in terms of what keeps to take in PVP and the long term goals to win a campaign. So I just be a good foot soldier and follow a leader. People who are like me, zergs can be fun to be in.

When I want to take a break from PVE content, I will do some PVP for a week or two. Yes, there are some major downsides of zergs, but they are not pure evil either.

I really enjoy IC's sewers, but I need a group to protect myself from gankers / hard core PVP'ers. I am sure many others feel the same way. What are your thoughts on this matter if you suck 1 on 1 PVP, but enjoy large battles?

Then enjoy your lag, if you think like that.

yodased · August 2016

Lysette wrote: »

k9mouse wrote: »

Zergs are not all bad. There are some good aspects of being in a zerg. For example, A person can be a hardcore PVE'er, but total suck on 1 on 1 PVP battles or do not have the patients sit around to gank someone. (I do not like gankers, anyways). Only other option for hardcore PVPer's is to join a group (5, 10 or even 24 members) to enjoy PVP content. I am a hardcore PVE'er, but I am such a noob in terms of what keeps to take in PVP and the long term goals to win a campaign. So I just be a good foot soldier and follow a leader. People who are like me, zergs can be fun to be in.

When I want to take a break from PVE content, I will do some PVP for a week or two. Yes, there are some major downsides of zergs, but they are not pure evil either.

I really enjoy IC's sewers, but I need a group to protect myself from gankers / hard core PVP'ers. I am sure many others feel the same way. What are your thoughts on this matter if you suck 1 on 1 PVP, but enjoy large battles?

Then enjoy your lag, if you think like that.

That's a bit harsh isn't it? I mean this game is large scale battles, and he isn't saying get in a ball group and spam AOEs here, just play the game as presented.

k9mouse · August 2016

For the record, I play a healer most of the time anyways. So I do not get many direct kills, but I do like the healer role, even in PVE dungeons. Only a few times, I will get really bad lag, but over all it is not that bad while I am in a zerg.

Lysette · August 2016

yodased wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

k9mouse wrote: »

Zergs are not all bad. There are some good aspects of being in a zerg. For example, A person can be a hardcore PVE'er, but total suck on 1 on 1 PVP battles or do not have the patients sit around to gank someone. (I do not like gankers, anyways). Only other option for hardcore PVPer's is to join a group (5, 10 or even 24 members) to enjoy PVP content. I am a hardcore PVE'er, but I am such a noob in terms of what keeps to take in PVP and the long term goals to win a campaign. So I just be a good foot soldier and follow a leader. People who are like me, zergs can be fun to be in.

When I want to take a break from PVE content, I will do some PVP for a week or two. Yes, there are some major downsides of zergs, but they are not pure evil either.

I really enjoy IC's sewers, but I need a group to protect myself from gankers / hard core PVP'ers. I am sure many others feel the same way. What are your thoughts on this matter if you suck 1 on 1 PVP, but enjoy large battles?

Then enjoy your lag, if you think like that.

That's a bit harsh isn't it? I mean this game is large scale battles, and he isn't saying get in a ball group and spam AOEs here, just play the game as presented.

The more people say "zergs are not that bad" the less the lag will go away, it will just get worse - so I repeat, enjoy the lag then.

k9mouse · August 2016

Lysette wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

k9mouse wrote: »

Zergs are not all bad. There are some good aspects of being in a zerg. For example, A person can be a hardcore PVE'er, but total suck on 1 on 1 PVP battles or do not have the patients sit around to gank someone. (I do not like gankers, anyways). Only other option for hardcore PVPer's is to join a group (5, 10 or even 24 members) to enjoy PVP content. I am a hardcore PVE'er, but I am such a noob in terms of what keeps to take in PVP and the long term goals to win a campaign. So I just be a good foot soldier and follow a leader. People who are like me, zergs can be fun to be in.

When I want to take a break from PVE content, I will do some PVP for a week or two. Yes, there are some major downsides of zergs, but they are not pure evil either.

I really enjoy IC's sewers, but I need a group to protect myself from gankers / hard core PVP'ers. I am sure many others feel the same way. What are your thoughts on this matter if you suck 1 on 1 PVP, but enjoy large battles?

Then enjoy your lag, if you think like that.

That's a bit harsh isn't it? I mean this game is large scale battles, and he isn't saying get in a ball group and spam AOEs here, just play the game as presented.

The more people say "zergs are not that bad" the less the lag will go away, it will just get worse - so I repeat, enjoy the lag then.

When I say zerg, I mean any size of group -- 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 man groups. I like PVE more, but PVP can be fun for a break. So.. how should a "hardcore PVE'er, but a casual PVE'er" should play?

Lysette · August 2016

k9mouse wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

k9mouse wrote: »

Zergs are not all bad. There are some good aspects of being in a zerg. For example, A person can be a hardcore PVE'er, but total suck on 1 on 1 PVP battles or do not have the patients sit around to gank someone. (I do not like gankers, anyways). Only other option for hardcore PVPer's is to join a group (5, 10 or even 24 members) to enjoy PVP content. I am a hardcore PVE'er, but I am such a noob in terms of what keeps to take in PVP and the long term goals to win a campaign. So I just be a good foot soldier and follow a leader. People who are like me, zergs can be fun to be in.

When I want to take a break from PVE content, I will do some PVP for a week or two. Yes, there are some major downsides of zergs, but they are not pure evil either.

I really enjoy IC's sewers, but I need a group to protect myself from gankers / hard core PVP'ers. I am sure many others feel the same way. What are your thoughts on this matter if you suck 1 on 1 PVP, but enjoy large battles?

Then enjoy your lag, if you think like that.

That's a bit harsh isn't it? I mean this game is large scale battles, and he isn't saying get in a ball group and spam AOEs here, just play the game as presented.

The more people say "zergs are not that bad" the less the lag will go away, it will just get worse - so I repeat, enjoy the lag then.

When I say zerg, I mean any size of group -- 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 man groups. I like PVE more, but PVP can be fun for a break. So.. how should a "hardcore PVE'er, but a casual PVE'er" should play?

Many smaller groups are not as bad a one or two large groups - that is all I am saying with it. Íf it is just 5 or 10 players, it is not that bad, in this you are right then - but if it is larger than this, you will experience significant lag due to the math which is behind the effort required to resolve all the interactions in such a large group.

Forestd16b14_ESO · August 2016

Hmmmm...... No

zergs are bad if not for the AoE bombs and single skill spam-fest then for the lag they cause and before zergs would purposely lag out the server just to DC the enemy faction so they could take the keep and kill every one inside.

Mady · August 2016

What's wrong with some people? You have absolutely no right to tell others how to play. If they want to zerg, then let them zerg. It will lag anyway.

Rohamad_Ali · August 2016

Buddy up for safety

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4ND7S8JiGM4

yodased · August 2016

Lysette wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

k9mouse wrote: »

Zergs are not all bad. There are some good aspects of being in a zerg. For example, A person can be a hardcore PVE'er, but total suck on 1 on 1 PVP battles or do not have the patients sit around to gank someone. (I do not like gankers, anyways). Only other option for hardcore PVPer's is to join a group (5, 10 or even 24 members) to enjoy PVP content. I am a hardcore PVE'er, but I am such a noob in terms of what keeps to take in PVP and the long term goals to win a campaign. So I just be a good foot soldier and follow a leader. People who are like me, zergs can be fun to be in.

When I want to take a break from PVE content, I will do some PVP for a week or two. Yes, there are some major downsides of zergs, but they are not pure evil either.

I really enjoy IC's sewers, but I need a group to protect myself from gankers / hard core PVP'ers. I am sure many others feel the same way. What are your thoughts on this matter if you suck 1 on 1 PVP, but enjoy large battles?

Then enjoy your lag, if you think like that.

That's a bit harsh isn't it? I mean this game is large scale battles, and he isn't saying get in a ball group and spam AOEs here, just play the game as presented.

The more people say "zergs are not that bad" the less the lag will go away, it will just get worse - so I repeat, enjoy the lag then.

I disagree. I have seen 50 v 50 fights with 0 lag.

There are specific combinations of variables that lag out the server and while the possibility of those combos increase of course with more people, they also increase significantly with the RIGHT people, or WRONG people if you don't like lag.

24man ball groups synergizing around AOE/Purge/Heals will lag out a server way more than 100 pugs on screen.

Just sayin

Lysette · August 2016

Mady wrote: »

What's wrong with some people? You have absolutely no right to tell others how to play. If they want to zerg, then let them zerg. It will lag anyway.

I am a Bioinformatician - this includes computer science among other disciplines - I work with complex adaptive systems where I have to deal with problems like this all the time, when evolving entities interact with each other in a simulation environment in complex ways - this is by principle the same as it happens in large scale PvP battles. And due to that, I am saying, that lag you experience in Cyrrodil is coming from those zergs and AoE spam - as long as this is favorized by players you cannot expect the lag to get fixed. There will just be minor improvements, because the tech guys can't perform miracles.

Rohamad_Ali · August 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Mady wrote: »

What's wrong with some people? You have absolutely no right to tell others how to play. If they want to zerg, then let them zerg. It will lag anyway.

I am a Bioinformatician - this includes computer science among other disciplines - I work with complex adaptive systems where I have to deal with problems like this all the time, when evolving entities interact with each other in a simulation environment in complex ways - this is by principle the same as it happens in large scale PvP battles. And due to that, I am saying, that lag you experience in Cyrrodil is coming from those zergs and AoE spam - as long as this is favorized by players you cannot expect the lag to get fixed. There will just be minor improvements, because the tech guys can't perform miracles.

But the commercial showed this ...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FfpbkGUhmt0

Lysette · August 2016

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Mady wrote: »

What's wrong with some people? You have absolutely no right to tell others how to play. If they want to zerg, then let them zerg. It will lag anyway.

I am a Bioinformatician - this includes computer science among other disciplines - I work with complex adaptive systems where I have to deal with problems like this all the time, when evolving entities interact with each other in a simulation environment in complex ways - this is by principle the same as it happens in large scale PvP battles. And due to that, I am saying, that lag you experience in Cyrrodil is coming from those zergs and AoE spam - as long as this is favorized by players you cannot expect the lag to get fixed. There will just be minor improvements, because the tech guys can't perform miracles.

But the commercial showed this ...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FfpbkGUhmt0

Yes, but that was at a time when they used a "trusted client-server architecture" - they had to cut back on that, because it opened the game up for hacks, cheats and bots - they did not do it properly though, otherwise things like the cheat engine would not have a chance - but this means as well, that those computation capacities, which they used from the client machines before, are no longer available and the server has to do all of that work now - and this is critical then with large zergs - before a larger zerg meant as well more client-machines to use - so no problems there - but now, after they changed this, all the work is on the server and this creates the bottleneck and the lag.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · August 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Mady wrote: »

What's wrong with some people? You have absolutely no right to tell others how to play. If they want to zerg, then let them zerg. It will lag anyway.

I am a Bioinformatician - this includes computer science among other disciplines - I work with complex adaptive systems where I have to deal with problems like this all the time, when evolving entities interact with each other in a simulation environment in complex ways - this is by principle the same as it happens in large scale PvP battles. And due to that, I am saying, that lag you experience in Cyrrodil is coming from those zergs and AoE spam - as long as this is favorized by players you cannot expect the lag to get fixed. There will just be minor improvements, because the tech guys can't perform miracles.

But the commercial showed this ...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FfpbkGUhmt0

Yes, but that was at a time when they used a "trusted client-server architecture" - they had to cut back on that, because it opened the game up for hacks, cheats and bots - they did not do it properly though, otherwise things like the cheat engine would not have a chance - but this means as well, that those computation capacities, which they used from the client machines before, are no longer available and the server has to do all of that work now - and this is critical then with large zergs - before a larger zerg meant as well more client-machines to use - so no problems there - but now, after they changed this, all the work is on the server and this creates the bottleneck and the lag.

So why is there lag, pop ins and missing NPCs in PVE? Honestly wondering.

In PVP I have more issues with disconnects than lag. A huge bridge fight can make it lag bad, but in an open field 50 on 50 isn't any different than most normal situations. When everyone is stacked, like in a bridge tunnel the problems happen.

But like I said, mostly DCs not lag.

Lysette · August 2016

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Mady wrote: »

What's wrong with some people? You have absolutely no right to tell others how to play. If they want to zerg, then let them zerg. It will lag anyway.

I am a Bioinformatician - this includes computer science among other disciplines - I work with complex adaptive systems where I have to deal with problems like this all the time, when evolving entities interact with each other in a simulation environment in complex ways - this is by principle the same as it happens in large scale PvP battles. And due to that, I am saying, that lag you experience in Cyrrodil is coming from those zergs and AoE spam - as long as this is favorized by players you cannot expect the lag to get fixed. There will just be minor improvements, because the tech guys can't perform miracles.

But the commercial showed this ...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FfpbkGUhmt0

Yes, but that was at a time when they used a "trusted client-server architecture" - they had to cut back on that, because it opened the game up for hacks, cheats and bots - they did not do it properly though, otherwise things like the cheat engine would not have a chance - but this means as well, that those computation capacities, which they used from the client machines before, are no longer available and the server has to do all of that work now - and this is critical then with large zergs - before a larger zerg meant as well more client-machines to use - so no problems there - but now, after they changed this, all the work is on the server and this creates the bottleneck and the lag.

So why is there lag, pop ins and missing NPCs in PVE? Honestly wondering.

In PVP I have more issues with disconnects than lag. A huge bridge fight can make it lag bad, but in an open field 50 on 50 isn't any different than most normal situations. When everyone is stacked, like in a bridge tunnel the problems happen.

But like I said, mostly DCs not lag.

I can just speculate about this - i think it is a lack of a fully asynchronous loading mechanism - but as I said, I can just make a guess about this, there are so many ways to implement this, that I cannot be more precise, sorry.

Edit: and DC is not always a technical reason, why this happens - it could be intentional as well, to get rid of the load on the server - you simply kick people, which you cannot process in a timely manner, instead to queue them up in an endlessly growing queue - this is something one does as a programmer to avoid the whole system to stall.

altemriel · August 2016

k9mouse wrote: »

Zergs are not all bad. There are some good aspects of being in a zerg. For example, A person can be a hardcore PVE'er, but total suck on 1 on 1 PVP battles or do not have the patients sit around to gank someone. (I do not like gankers, anyways). Only other option for hardcore PVPer's is to join a group (5, 10 or even 24 members) to enjoy PVP content. I am a hardcore PVE'er, but I am such a noob in terms of what keeps to take in PVP and the long term goals to win a campaign. So I just be a good foot soldier and follow a leader. People who are like me, zergs can be fun to be in.

When I want to take a break from PVE content, I will do some PVP for a week or two. Yes, there are some major downsides of zergs, but they are not pure evil either.

I really enjoy IC's sewers, but I need a group to protect myself from gankers / hard core PVP'ers. I am sure many others feel the same way. What are your thoughts on this matter if you suck 1 on 1 PVP, but enjoy large battles?

zergs are great when you are a part of the bigger one

Bromburak · August 2016

k9mouse wrote: »

Zergs are not all bad.

...

I really enjoy IC's sewers, but I need a group to protect myself from gankers / hard core PVP'ers. I am sure many others feel the same way. What are your thoughts on this matter if you suck 1 on 1 PVP, but enjoy large battles?

I think that casuals or people that suck don't have to 1 vs. 1 and should look for group anyway.
However size matters because a group is not always zerg ...
Since ESO has no PvP objectives designed for solo players you always have a choice between small scale groups or zerg.

Shad0wfire99 · August 2016

Lysette wrote: »

k9mouse wrote: »

Zergs are not all bad. There are some good aspects of being in a zerg. For example, A person can be a hardcore PVE'er, but total suck on 1 on 1 PVP battles or do not have the patients sit around to gank someone. (I do not like gankers, anyways). Only other option for hardcore PVPer's is to join a group (5, 10 or even 24 members) to enjoy PVP content. I am a hardcore PVE'er, but I am such a noob in terms of what keeps to take in PVP and the long term goals to win a campaign. So I just be a good foot soldier and follow a leader. People who are like me, zergs can be fun to be in.

When I want to take a break from PVE content, I will do some PVP for a week or two. Yes, there are some major downsides of zergs, but they are not pure evil either.

I really enjoy IC's sewers, but I need a group to protect myself from gankers / hard core PVP'ers. I am sure many others feel the same way. What are your thoughts on this matter if you suck 1 on 1 PVP, but enjoy large battles?

Then enjoy your lag, if you think like that.

I'll gladly take the lag over zero AP and no Assault or Support skill lines.

Recremen · August 2016

Being in a group isn't naughty, it's stacking huge numbers in a small location that's problematic. Of course, there's no hard and fast rule to know exactly how big is too big and lag-inducing, but when you notice like 60 people just from your own faction in one area you should realize that you are doing a wrong.