Stamina vs Magicka

Strider_Roshin · July 2016

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

mubzander wrote: »

Stamina builds have to be aware of dodge rolling, blocking, attacking and healing, so it's only fair if they hit slightly harder since they all usually come off the stamina pool with exception of some skills.

Magicka builds are easy to play compared to them. You don't have to constantly watch your resources. If you're in trouble just run away, dodge, cloak or streak away not to mention one breath of life takes you to full health.

FYI On xbox the current Scourge emperor is a Magic NB.

It appears you do not have sufficient knowledge on the stamina class:

"Stam builds sacrifice nothing, if a stam build runs out of magicka they just dodge roll away or use any of their healing or damage abilities to keep the fight going."

This statement is not accurate I advise you to play a stamina class. There is no need for stamina users to use their magicka pool unless they want certain buffs or cloak.

This thread is irrelevant and brings nothing insightful to the community.

I played all classes as stamina and they're all stronger than magicka counter parts. No l2p issue here, just cold hard truth.

I've played all classes as magicka, and they're stronger than their stamina counterparts. No L2P issue here; just the cold hard truth.

Were you PVP'ing before 1.6 patch?

My pet monkey says yes.

joshhh_nb · July 2016

@Strider_Roshin no just no [SNIP]. i have no idea if youre just extremly biased, [SNIP] please stop with this [SNIP]where you cant accept that its a stam meta right now, only over performing mag class is a mag plar. Theres a reason why in most duelling tourneys i have seen and participated in (recently)the winner was a stam build, mostly stam dks.

[Edited for Rude and Insulting Comments and Baiting]

LegendaryMage · July 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

mubzander wrote: »

Stamina builds have to be aware of dodge rolling, blocking, attacking and healing, so it's only fair if they hit slightly harder since they all usually come off the stamina pool with exception of some skills.

Magicka builds are easy to play compared to them. You don't have to constantly watch your resources. If you're in trouble just run away, dodge, cloak or streak away not to mention one breath of life takes you to full health.

FYI On xbox the current Scourge emperor is a Magic NB.

It appears you do not have sufficient knowledge on the stamina class:

"Stam builds sacrifice nothing, if a stam build runs out of magicka they just dodge roll away or use any of their healing or damage abilities to keep the fight going."

This statement is not accurate I advise you to play a stamina class. There is no need for stamina users to use their magicka pool unless they want certain buffs or cloak.

This thread is irrelevant and brings nothing insightful to the community.

I played all classes as stamina and they're all stronger than magicka counter parts. No l2p issue here, just cold hard truth.

I've played all classes as magicka, and they're stronger than their stamina counterparts. No L2P issue here; just the cold hard truth.

Were you PVP'ing before 1.6 patch?

My pet monkey says yes.

Then we both know your reply would have been totally spot on back then, but not now.

Strider_Roshin · July 2016

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

mubzander wrote: »

Stamina builds have to be aware of dodge rolling, blocking, attacking and healing, so it's only fair if they hit slightly harder since they all usually come off the stamina pool with exception of some skills.

Magicka builds are easy to play compared to them. You don't have to constantly watch your resources. If you're in trouble just run away, dodge, cloak or streak away not to mention one breath of life takes you to full health.

FYI On xbox the current Scourge emperor is a Magic NB.

It appears you do not have sufficient knowledge on the stamina class:

"Stam builds sacrifice nothing, if a stam build runs out of magicka they just dodge roll away or use any of their healing or damage abilities to keep the fight going."

This statement is not accurate I advise you to play a stamina class. There is no need for stamina users to use their magicka pool unless they want certain buffs or cloak.

This thread is irrelevant and brings nothing insightful to the community.

I played all classes as stamina and they're all stronger than magicka counter parts. No l2p issue here, just cold hard truth.

I've played all classes as magicka, and they're stronger than their stamina counterparts. No L2P issue here; just the cold hard truth.

Were you PVP'ing before 1.6 patch?

My pet monkey says yes.

Then we both know your reply would have been totally spot on back then, but not now.

Correct, it is definitely no longer elder staves online anymore. But I'm not going to say that stamina is OP. I do however think that there are certain aspects of different classes that are OP though. For example: reflective scales is a hard counter to any caster build. The Templar's cleanse, RD, and major mending is too powerful. Overload light attack for the sorc hits too hard for such a cheap spammable ability (heavy attack needs a huge buff though), and implosion for stam sorcs procs all the freaking time. Catalyst for the Nightblade is just stupid since death stroke only costs 50 ultimate (which is fine), and they have a passive that gives more ultimate when using siphoning abilities, and soul harvest generates even more ultimate. Catalyst is just overkill lol.

thankyourat · July 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

mubzander wrote: »

Stamina builds have to be aware of dodge rolling, blocking, attacking and healing, so it's only fair if they hit slightly harder since they all usually come off the stamina pool with exception of some skills.

Magicka builds are easy to play compared to them. You don't have to constantly watch your resources. If you're in trouble just run away, dodge, cloak or streak away not to mention one breath of life takes you to full health.

FYI On xbox the current Scourge emperor is a Magic NB.

It appears you do not have sufficient knowledge on the stamina class:

"Stam builds sacrifice nothing, if a stam build runs out of magicka they just dodge roll away or use any of their healing or damage abilities to keep the fight going."

This statement is not accurate I advise you to play a stamina class. There is no need for stamina users to use their magicka pool unless they want certain buffs or cloak.

This thread is irrelevant and brings nothing insightful to the community.

I played all classes as stamina and they're all stronger than magicka counter parts. No l2p issue here, just cold hard truth.

I've played all classes as magicka, and they're stronger than their stamina counterparts. No L2P issue here; just the cold hard truth.

Lol for you to say that just tells me that you are zerging 24/7 I to play multiple classes both stam and magick, and stam had been alot better and it always has been for smaller scale PvP since 1.6. magicka sorc was really good for small scale but that's it. The vicious death magblades were literally only good for bombing people who bunched up. The build has horrible resource management that any good build could take advantage of. I ran it for a little while to troll the people who would root and light attack me to death. The fact that you have one pool on stamina classes makes it alot easier, because with that pool you can cc break. Where as most magicka builds only have about 12k stamina and cc breaks cost around 5k, and even worse magicka classes are very slow so the game is very unforgiving to magicka classes

thankyourat · July 2016

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

joshhh_nb wrote: »

@ScruffyWhiskers to be fair i think my concealed hits harder than most stam blades, non crits i get about 4-4.5k and with crits 7k-10k depending on how much impen they're wearing. what makes them stronger is their ability dodge roll, superior heal in the LONG RUN with rally and vigor due to roll dodge, incap, surprise attack debuff and being able to weave heavy attacks that can hit for 5k+

What's your buffed non-invis/stealth damage tool tip for concealed? With drinks not food mine is about 8.5k depending on my gear setup. My understanding is that surprise (buffed) is 10-12k on your average joe stam nb. Maybe I'm wrong though.

Fully buffed my tooltip on my concealed is around 11.5k it does hit harder than my stamblade in terms of tooltip damage but in game my stamblade hits harder. There's a couple reasons for that. One is you get empower from ambush so your next attack will do 20% extra, surprise attack lowers resistance by 5k so it will start to hit really hard as the fight goes on, weapon weaves are more effective on a stamblade because of the higher weapon damage. So yea magblade can have higher tooltip damage but it doesn't hit harder

joshhh_nb · July 2016

@ScruffyWhiskers you dont really need drinks tbh food is much better, nowadays its more about burst than outsustaining.

Mac10murda · July 2016

Proxy really was the burst

thankyourat wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

joshhh_nb wrote: »

@ScruffyWhiskers to be fair i think my concealed hits harder than most stam blades, non crits i get about 4-4.5k and with crits 7k-10k depending on how much impen they're wearing. what makes them stronger is their ability dodge roll, superior heal in the LONG RUN with rally and vigor due to roll dodge, incap, surprise attack debuff and being able to weave heavy attacks that can hit for 5k+

What's your buffed non-invis/stealth damage tool tip for concealed? With drinks not food mine is about 8.5k depending on my gear setup. My understanding is that surprise (buffed) is 10-12k on your average joe stam nb. Maybe I'm wrong though.

Fully buffed my tooltip on my concealed is around 11.5k it does hit harder than my stamblade in terms of tooltip damage but in game my stamblade hits harder. There's a couple reasons for that. One is you get empower from ambush so your next attack will do 20% extra, surprise attack lowers resistance by 5k so it will start to hit really hard as the fight goes on, weapon weaves are more effective on a stamblade because of the higher weapon damage. So yea magblade can have higher tooltip damage but it doesn't hit harder

What gear you run? Duel wield or destro?

thankyourat · July 2016

Mac10murda wrote: »

Proxy really was the burst

thankyourat wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

joshhh_nb wrote: »

@ScruffyWhiskers to be fair i think my concealed hits harder than most stam blades, non crits i get about 4-4.5k and with crits 7k-10k depending on how much impen they're wearing. what makes them stronger is their ability dodge roll, superior heal in the LONG RUN with rally and vigor due to roll dodge, incap, surprise attack debuff and being able to weave heavy attacks that can hit for 5k+

What's your buffed non-invis/stealth damage tool tip for concealed? With drinks not food mine is about 8.5k depending on my gear setup. My understanding is that surprise (buffed) is 10-12k on your average joe stam nb. Maybe I'm wrong though.

Fully buffed my tooltip on my concealed is around 11.5k it does hit harder than my stamblade in terms of tooltip damage but in game my stamblade hits harder. There's a couple reasons for that. One is you get empower from ambush so your next attack will do 20% extra, surprise attack lowers resistance by 5k so it will start to hit really hard as the fight goes on, weapon weaves are more effective on a stamblade because of the higher weapon damage. So yea magblade can have higher tooltip damage but it doesn't hit harder

What gear you run? Duel wield or destro?

I run dual wield and vet 15 purple food with 5 Julianos, 5 lich (staff on the back bar) 3 willpower all spell damage, 1 spell damage glyph on the sword, and the shadow mundus. The burst is really good for open world PvP. I've hit people with low crit resist for 9k conceal and 13k soul harvest. I just stack all damage and get regen from the lich set

altemriel · July 2016

thepurpleplatypus2 wrote: »

Right now in Cyro there are way more stam builds than mag, this is not just me stating the obvious; the reason for this imbalance is the fact that stam builds are overpowered in their abilities to dodge, break free, and spam abilities. While I am a magicka based build I have to micro manage my resources more so than a stam build, i can only dodge roll 2-3 times or break free around 3 times before my stam is gone. this would be manageable if things like dizzying swing and bombard werent broken to high hell, forcing me to deplete my stam before i can even get a hit off. Stamina builds have a much more fluidity to "animation cancel" their attacks, so essentially by the time i put out 3 skills, they've hit me with 5+, or just dizzying swing 7 times. To remain competitive in cyro i am a vampire, mainly for the ult and mist form. Mist form is currently labeled as granting immunity to all stuns, cc's, and such... that is a hunk of bologna. Repeatedly i have been slowed, stopped completely, or knocked out of mist form while being attacked by stam users; naturally this puts a damper on my mood at the time.

I'm sure other people on these forums have gone into the speed stacking and infinite dodge roll habits that stam users have repeatedly used in order to get away faster than a mount, so i wont go into that.

As far as sets go there are sooooooooo much more choices for stamina users that it is just absurd, and when i find a magicka set that i havent previously seen, its 5 piece is next to worthless or it only comes in prosperous. This issue has numbers that speak for themselves.

I dont want to get rid of stam builds or nerf them to the point of making people leave or re roll, i just want a level playing field in the sense of overall effect. To play a magicka build one must sacrifice their stam pool and risk being cc'd over and over. Stam builds sacrifice nothing, if a stam build runs out of magicka they just dodge roll away or use any of their healing or damage abilities to keep the fight going. if im faced with an incompetent stam build i will roll over them just as hard as the next guy but the ones that have their s**t together can infinitely stun, knockback, and root me into oblivion and before i know it i cant block, dodge or do anything stam related.

Also while i have the reader's attention, cyro lag needs to be fixed, and the pop locks on all factions need to be addressed, AD and EP constantly have much larger numbers than DC even while all 3 are "pop locked"

no, just no! you must understand, that the play styles of magicka based character is usually different that of a stamina character.

while stamina character has stronger hits, better mobility and sustain, magicka character has other tactiques. for example a magicka nightblade can be almost cloaked forever, he can be right next to you and in a blink of an eye get invisible. he can be behind you and kill you in one burst attack from hide-snare-hide-snare-hide-strong attack-execute kill you in few seconds if you are not strong and fast enough.

please not an another nerf post!

check this out for example:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/281103/magicka-sorcerer-shadow-of-the-hist-pvp-stats/p1

caeliusstarbreaker · July 2016

Change medium armor 12% wpn dmg to pen
Or light armor pen to 12% spell dmg?

Ishammael · July 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

mubzander wrote: »

Stamina builds have to be aware of dodge rolling, blocking, attacking and healing, so it's only fair if they hit slightly harder since they all usually come off the stamina pool with exception of some skills.

Magicka builds are easy to play compared to them. You don't have to constantly watch your resources. If you're in trouble just run away, dodge, cloak or streak away not to mention one breath of life takes you to full health.

FYI On xbox the current Scourge emperor is a Magic NB.

It appears you do not have sufficient knowledge on the stamina class:

"Stam builds sacrifice nothing, if a stam build runs out of magicka they just dodge roll away or use any of their healing or damage abilities to keep the fight going."

This statement is not accurate I advise you to play a stamina class. There is no need for stamina users to use their magicka pool unless they want certain buffs or cloak.

This thread is irrelevant and brings nothing insightful to the community.

I played all classes as stamina and they're all stronger than magicka counter parts. No l2p issue here, just cold hard truth.

I've played all classes as magicka, and they're stronger than their stamina counterparts. No L2P issue here; just the cold hard truth.

mDK is better than stamDK? Surely you're joking.

thankyourat · July 2016

altemriel wrote: »

thepurpleplatypus2 wrote: »

Right now in Cyro there are way more stam builds than mag, this is not just me stating the obvious; the reason for this imbalance is the fact that stam builds are overpowered in their abilities to dodge, break free, and spam abilities. While I am a magicka based build I have to micro manage my resources more so than a stam build, i can only dodge roll 2-3 times or break free around 3 times before my stam is gone. this would be manageable if things like dizzying swing and bombard werent broken to high hell, forcing me to deplete my stam before i can even get a hit off. Stamina builds have a much more fluidity to "animation cancel" their attacks, so essentially by the time i put out 3 skills, they've hit me with 5+, or just dizzying swing 7 times. To remain competitive in cyro i am a vampire, mainly for the ult and mist form. Mist form is currently labeled as granting immunity to all stuns, cc's, and such... that is a hunk of bologna. Repeatedly i have been slowed, stopped completely, or knocked out of mist form while being attacked by stam users; naturally this puts a damper on my mood at the time.

I'm sure other people on these forums have gone into the speed stacking and infinite dodge roll habits that stam users have repeatedly used in order to get away faster than a mount, so i wont go into that.

As far as sets go there are sooooooooo much more choices for stamina users that it is just absurd, and when i find a magicka set that i havent previously seen, its 5 piece is next to worthless or it only comes in prosperous. This issue has numbers that speak for themselves.

I dont want to get rid of stam builds or nerf them to the point of making people leave or re roll, i just want a level playing field in the sense of overall effect. To play a magicka build one must sacrifice their stam pool and risk being cc'd over and over. Stam builds sacrifice nothing, if a stam build runs out of magicka they just dodge roll away or use any of their healing or damage abilities to keep the fight going. if im faced with an incompetent stam build i will roll over them just as hard as the next guy but the ones that have their s**t together can infinitely stun, knockback, and root me into oblivion and before i know it i cant block, dodge or do anything stam related.

Also while i have the reader's attention, cyro lag needs to be fixed, and the pop locks on all factions need to be addressed, AD and EP constantly have much larger numbers than DC even while all 3 are "pop locked"

no, just no! you must understand, that the play styles of magicka based character is usually different that of a stamina character.

while stamina character has stronger hits, better mobility and sustain, magicka character has other tactiques. for example a magicka nightblade can be almost cloaked forever, he can be right next to you and in a blink of an eye get invisible. he can be behind you and kill you in one burst attack from hide-snare-hide-snare-hide-strong attack-execute kill you in few seconds if you are not strong and fast enough.

please not an another nerf post!

check this out for example:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/281103/magicka-sorcerer-shadow-of-the-hist-pvp-stats/p1

Lol what are these other tactics

Ishammael wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

mubzander wrote: »

Stamina builds have to be aware of dodge rolling, blocking, attacking and healing, so it's only fair if they hit slightly harder since they all usually come off the stamina pool with exception of some skills.

Magicka builds are easy to play compared to them. You don't have to constantly watch your resources. If you're in trouble just run away, dodge, cloak or streak away not to mention one breath of life takes you to full health.

FYI On xbox the current Scourge emperor is a Magic NB.

It appears you do not have sufficient knowledge on the stamina class:

"Stam builds sacrifice nothing, if a stam build runs out of magicka they just dodge roll away or use any of their healing or damage abilities to keep the fight going."

This statement is not accurate I advise you to play a stamina class. There is no need for stamina users to use their magicka pool unless they want certain buffs or cloak.

This thread is irrelevant and brings nothing insightful to the community.

I played all classes as stamina and they're all stronger than magicka counter parts. No l2p issue here, just cold hard truth.

I've played all classes as magicka, and they're stronger than their stamina counterparts. No L2P issue here; just the cold hard truth.

mDK is better than stamDK? Surely you're joking.

Lol there is also no way magblade is better than stamblade.

joshhh_nb · July 2016

@altemriel cool story bro, but good magic nb don't stay in cloak forever

Master_Kas · July 2016

Ishammael wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

mubzander wrote: »

Stamina builds have to be aware of dodge rolling, blocking, attacking and healing, so it's only fair if they hit slightly harder since they all usually come off the stamina pool with exception of some skills.

Magicka builds are easy to play compared to them. You don't have to constantly watch your resources. If you're in trouble just run away, dodge, cloak or streak away not to mention one breath of life takes you to full health.

FYI On xbox the current Scourge emperor is a Magic NB.

It appears you do not have sufficient knowledge on the stamina class:

"Stam builds sacrifice nothing, if a stam build runs out of magicka they just dodge roll away or use any of their healing or damage abilities to keep the fight going."

This statement is not accurate I advise you to play a stamina class. There is no need for stamina users to use their magicka pool unless they want certain buffs or cloak.

This thread is irrelevant and brings nothing insightful to the community.

I played all classes as stamina and they're all stronger than magicka counter parts. No l2p issue here, just cold hard truth.

I've played all classes as magicka, and they're stronger than their stamina counterparts. No L2P issue here; just the cold hard truth.

mDK is better than stamDK? Surely you're joking.

This Guy says mNB is better than stamNB aswell

Lava_Croft · July 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

joshhh_nb wrote: »

@Forestd16b14_ESO yep they nerfed magic classes to add balance which i definitely agree with but they were buffing stam classes at the same time, tipping the balance. If there was a balance in this game there why is it that im the only magic nb running around? why are there more stam sorcs than mag sorcs, more stam dks than mag dks? I cant really tell with stam plars/ mag plars right now though but i am seeing a lot of radiant ds.

I see more stamblades than magblades, but then again magblades can cloak indefinitely.

Good luck trying to use Cloak in a combat situation and actually have it work.

Who even needs Cloak when the real enemy of every player in ESO, CC, is so easily dealt with as a StamBlade.

It's actually quite easy. I use shadow image with my magblade. The combination of cloak and shadow image I'm incredibly evasive. You're tanky as a magblade with healing ward and rapid regen (especially if you're a HA magblade), and your damage output is insane with concealed and soul harvest due to the 8% additional magicka via magicka flood.

Good luck trying to swap your weapon and getting that Healing Ward out while frantically trying to get Cloak to work. I rather just pop Vigor and maybe Rally and then dodge roll, at least that always works.

Lord-Otto · July 2016

Don't even bother, Legendary. Roshin is a typical stamina bias.

May I remind everyone of how Mighty used to increase all your damage while we had to split between Elemental Expert and Thaumaturge before the CP overhaul? May I remind you how stamina builds could always stack weapon damage higher than magicka builds? May I remind you how magicka builds are often bound to staves which have inferior passives and damage? May I remind you how something essential like Healing Ward is can be completely broken by Shield Breaker? May I remind you how Hunding's Rage has been a thing since ever and how we had to wait for Julianos?

And may I remind you to take a look at the good darn leaderboards and top PvP streams and how everyone was/is/will always be stamina, with the short exception of TG Vicious Death bombing Yoloblade meta?

I suggest every stam player here just gets down from his/her high horse for a while and starts a mag sorc in PvP. Play it for three months nonstop. I guarantee you, you will CRY in agony for you to go back to your 6k WD stam build that oneshots people from stealth and dodges/shuffles/vigors everything away.

Come one, you big mouths, be good bros and accept the challenge, or are you afraid?

Strider_Roshin · July 2016

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Don't even bother, Legendary. Roshin is a typical stamina bias.

May I remind everyone of how Mighty used to increase all your damage while we had to split between Elemental Expert and Thaumaturge before the CP overhaul? May I remind you how stamina builds could always stack weapon damage higher than magicka builds? May I remind you how magicka builds are often bound to staves which have inferior passives and damage? May I remind you how something essential like Healing Ward is can be completely broken by Shield Breaker? May I remind you how Hunding's Rage has been a thing since ever and how we had to wait for Julianos?

And may I remind you to take a look at the good darn leaderboards and top PvP streams and how everyone was/is/will always be stamina, with the short exception of TG Vicious Death bombing Yoloblade meta?

I suggest every stam player here just gets down from his/her high horse for a while and starts a mag sorc in PvP. Play it for three months nonstop. I guarantee you, you will CRY in agony for you to go back to your 6k WD stam build that oneshots people from stealth and dodges/shuffles/vigors everything away.

Come one, you big mouths, be good bros and accept the challenge, or are you afraid?

My goodness. Okay, for one I do play with the magicka classes in PvP, and although it's a different feel, I have zero issues with stamina builds. I also don't use those trashy 6k WD builds, despite what everyone feels it's not all about damage. I do prefer the stam Nightblade, but I've played as one since PC beta when they were complete garbage; it's just my preferred play style.

ScruffyWhiskers · July 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

I do prefer the stam Nightblade, but I've played as one since PC beta when they were complete garbage; it's just my preferred play style.

Not to be too pedantic here but having played since late pc beta myself, the idea that nb's were stam based before 1.6 is not accurate. Maybe that's not what you mean though. All nb's did use weapon damage and weapon crit but skills used and scaled off of magicka. It was a very counter intuitive concept and I can see why they eventually evolved the stam vs. magicka system that they have now which all in all follows some easily graspable design patterns.

I would agree though that nb's at first had a slew of broken skills and the birth of most stamina classes had some growing pangs. But stamina has picked up power boosts every update since then. And you do sort of wonder if there isn't a bias among the designers towards stamina at this point.

Strider_Roshin · July 2016

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

I do prefer the stam Nightblade, but I've played as one since PC beta when they were complete garbage; it's just my preferred play style.

Not to be too pedantic here but having played since late pc beta myself, the idea that nb's were stam based before 1.6 is not accurate. Maybe that's not what you mean though. All nb's did use weapon damage and weapon crit but skills used and scaled off of magicka. It was a very counter intuitive concept and I can see why they eventually evolved the stam vs. magicka system that they have now which all in all follows some easily graspable design patterns.

I would agree though that nb's at first had a slew of broken skills and the birth of most stamina classes had some growing pangs. But stamina has picked up power boosts every update since then. And you do sort of wonder if there isn't a bias among the designers towards stamina at this point.

Lol life was quite different back then. My build was a bit more hybrid due to soft caps. Immovable was a must have, and unfortunately I used wrecking blow as my main attack back then.

The direction that ZOS has been going is a good one. Stamina now feels on par with magicka, although I feel that flurry is a bit too powerful now, but that's due to its ability to double dip (there's a lot of moves that I feel shouldn't be allowed to do this). Currently the only class type that I feel is grossly overpowered is the magicka templar. Stamina will be overpowered next DLC though; which I find irritating, and the magicka templar is going to be more powerful as well *rolls eyes*

Baconlad · July 2016

Magick templar here. Now...im powerful like...really powerful, I love my templar. Anyway ill tell all of yas. In a 1v1, if I have a choice between fighting a stamina build or a magick build, ill pull the magick build first. They hit like wet noodles, and drop like potatoes to me. They have lower damaging abilities in general (looking at you dark flare, being an example of suck when you get hit by one), they have less survivability (maybe except magplar...maybe). Now stamina builds? As soon as you start dodge rolling away to hump a rock....i walk away. I do not need the stress of fireing off my magick cost intensive hard hitters and have them dodge ten out of eleven attempts. I do not need the stress on casting a stun on you and even IF it hits you, not being as issue because you can stack max stamina, max stamina regen. Then I don't need the stress of you hitting me for 1/3 of my life in a simple heavy attack poison injection combo when I have 3k crit resistance, and 30k physical resist. Bull....crap...stamina builds can slot shuffle, stack weapon damage, max stamina, max stamina regen. Slot vigor, rally. And wreck my existence. I had to sacrifice aLOT to get my templar to be tanky enough to outlast a stamina build.

I have to have bloodspawn, I have to have regen inhibiting mist, I have to have a sword and shield, I have to use two swords instead of a staff because I need the extra spell power, doing so forces me to have WEAK AS FU** light/ heavy attacks. I've got nothing but a wimpy little dot that deals 2k a second to guarantee a hit on a stamina build, but that skill is purgable, noticable, and bashable. Leaving me REALLY open to have to channel it. My charge doesn't snare you if your shuffle graces you with a dodge, which tends to be more than 80% of the time. I have to run full heavy, where you do not. I have to face tank damage where you do not. Oh and for "balance", we lost 1/3 of our options for damage in the change to give a golden spear if friggin LIGHT to a physical weapon damage dealer.... There is a severe imbalance right now to stamina builds.

Need the dog *** out of shuffle, let the stamina builds keep their vigor, just nerf shuffle and remove the cost scaling to dodge roll...we will all thank zos for this change