Disagree about taking away the heal from power lash. It's extremely useful and appropriate for a DK, even if they make GDB better.
(Edit- the reason I disagree is because I don't think DKs need an execute specific skill. It doesn't fit with the design of the class.)

I saw a really great idea in another thread, can't recall who said it. Essentially they called for one of the passives of ardent flame to include an "incinerate" feature that would work similarly to sorcs disintegration. When an enemy gets to below a certain amount of health, flame damage would either do more damage, or it would have the chance to proc incinerate and do execute damage or something like that.

Outer_Rim wrote: »

Meh people don't want to adjust, they still want to make sword and board work for dps and burst damage, which i'd say can only be acomplished with NB due to incap strike being op. Adjust wear some robes then you will have your damage.

Spoken like someone who has never played magicka dk or runs with so many people it doesn't even matter what build he runs.

I like the Dragon Blood heal over time idea!

I like both ideas. Only potential problems I see.
1. Power lash. I don't do much pve so I don't know a whole lot about this, but can bosses be set off balance? If so maybe dks would go that route instead of molten whip for executing bosses? 200-300% might outweigh the 70 spell power for ardent flame abilities?
2. Dragon blood hot. Might make it too good in pve? Again I don't do much pve at all. Just some thoughts.

IxskullzxI wrote: »

1. Power lash. I don't do much pve so I don't know a whole lot about this, but can bosses be set off balance?

Technically yes, bosses can be set of balance but if you try to do this yourself you lose dps because its a complicated procedure. The only way power lash works as a pve dps increase is in a trial with the right group make up specifically trying to set the boss off balance. I have tried to mention this to my own trial group but I just get ignored so I don't think people are going to take the steps necessary to make ot work and it takes a lot of assistance and morph swapping to set up anyway.

Tldr technically yes effectivley not really.

Ghostbane wrote: »

2) I like this, but then the cost would need to go up, or for it to scale from magicka. As that could be another ridiculous OP option for stam DKs (on top) of vigor.

What if cauterize was changed to only target yourself instead of allies? Every 5 seconds it shoots a fireball that heals you for "x" for 15 seconds? And still gives major sorcery while slotted. Maybe does aoe damage when the fireball hits to anyone within 3-5m? Thoughts?

I think whips damage is fine tbh, I wouldn't complain about a buff to it but I don't think its the real problem. The main problem that needs to be addressed immediately is Dragon's Blood, exempt it from battle spirit or redesign the skill entirely to be a more effective heal for magicka DK's while most importantly NOT being effective for a stam DK, that would give everyone cancer.

The second problem is stamina management, now I understand to extent for me its an L2P issue as there are guys who manage it a lot better than I do but the fact of the matter is on a class with no escape and lack luster healing, you have to block, a lot. the lack of stamina regen while blocking is still in my opinion the second biggest nerf the DK ever got, right after dynamic ult removal. I don't want to see a return to perma blocking because that was honestly pretty dumb but we need some sort of significant reduction to block cost or partial stamina regen while blocking. I know block cost reduction glyphs are a thing but in order to run those you are forced to sacrifice too much damage and with the current iteration of battle spirit you are not going to kill any decent players with that little damage.

While were at it Reflective Scales needs to be addressed. First thing is this has to be one of the least reliable skills in the game, the number of times of have died in an outnumbered fight because I put my wings up expecting to reflect that Crystal Frag only to be knocked down with full damage anyway is truly infuriating. The second thing is the limit of 4 projectiles, this really needs to be raised to 6-8 projectiles in my opinion.

And finally getting back to damage, dots need to be more useful. I honestly have no idea how to accomplish this but the fact that outside of group play I don't even think about slotting purge, and if I ever did it would be for the extra regen, should tell you enough. After battle spirit dot damage is pitiful but dots are the whole reason why whip does so much less damage than something like concealed weapon ( I can't remember for sure which morph is the magicka one, nightblades feel free to correct me there) but the only reason I use burning embers is for a nice little burst heal. I think that battle spirit needs to be made a little smarter and rather than be a global 50% reduction it needs to address different types of abilities differently. Looking back to 1.6 with the old battle spirit, I don't remember anyone ever saying "*** me that buring embers was ticking so hard!".

Edit: Just read @Ishammael 's post and I agree, a stun needs to be added to empowering chains to make it basically a magicka version of invasion to make it a viable gap closer, I would be totally fine with losing the empower if both made it too strong. It would also be nice if chains worked more reliably.

Waylander wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

1) No. Flame Lash should not have execute tendencies more than it already is. The only thing wrong with the skill at the moment, is that the internal damage curve is too steep, and needs adjusted.

2) I like this, but then the cost would need to go up, or for it to scale from magicka. As that could be another ridiculous OP option for stam DKs (on top) of vigor.

Thanks for the responses so far guys.

Interesting to read those who feel flame lash is performing ok as our bread and butter spam damage. I feel like its a bit of a wet noodle.

1) Whip feels like it hits like a wet noodle due in part to the two factors below:
- We have no access to major breach unless running pierce armour or weakness to elements. I have tried running pierce armour for the debuff and it is very difficult to make it work on a mDK.
- We have no major defile unless running reverb bash (stamina hog on a magica blocking build) or trying to use standard as our burst ultimate. I have tried running reverb bash and again it is difficult to make it work.

Adding an execute to the powerlash, even if it only applied below 20% health, gives mDK enough burst to finish a fight without having to drop an ultimate for burst. It's no fun fighting someone and having to wait 45 seconds plus to build up the ultimate to try to bring their health bar low enough so that your cumulative dots and whip tickles can kill them to death. It is not difficult for many classes to heal through mDK pressure. Vigor and Rally can manage it for any stamina user and magica users with harness/healing ward also make it very difficult to secure the kill.

I could settle for lash applying either major breach or major defile in lieu of an execute as they would both serve the purpose of increasing the effective damage of flame lash (and our dots). As stated, the current h.o.t. from flame lash can be safely moved to GDB/Coagulating to make that skill useful once again.

2) The GDB/Coagulating HOT would scale on magica and spell power, useless for stamina users.

Keep the idea's coming, hopefully ZOS can address the weaknesses in the mDK so that it can be viable again.

1). Whip hits "like a noodle" b/c DK sacrifices dmg for defense when gearing. The dmg coefficient on whip is basically the same as Concealed. In fact, the follow-up attack (power lash) is higher. Yes, major breach makes a huge (8%) difference. But I'll still stand by my stance of no execute or dmg buff for whip.

I like the suggestion of "Burning Light" or "Implosion" style passive for DK DoTs. That would also have the nice side effect of making the Elf Bane set more interesting.

2). Yes, Dragon blood needs to become useful. Pretty sure everyone can agree on that.

Ishammael wrote: »

1). Whip hits "like a noodle" b/c DK sacrifices dmg for defense when gearing. The dmg coefficient on whip is basically the same as Concealed. In fact, the follow-up attack (power lash) is higher. Yes, major breach makes a huge (8%) difference. But I'll still stand by my stance of no execute or dmg buff for whip.

I like the suggestion of "Burning Light" or "Implosion" style passive for DK DoTs. That would also have the nice side effect of making the Elf Bane set more interesting.

2). Yes, Dragon blood needs to become useful. Pretty sure everyone can agree on that.

I like the idea of a burning light / implosion style passives, but I don't think any DK passives are actually bad enough to warrant a revamp. It would probably replace combustion which may make PvE dmg higher for stam and magica dk's (which is already in a very good place). I think DK of all classes has the best synergy between actives and passives (which is why it's hard working out even which active abilities to use).

I have not seen anyone successfully build mDK for damage (in the last few patches) and have the build playable in open world due to the nature of the dk's core damage skills being predominantly melee range with no inherent escape, speed or high burst combinations outside of a 200 cost ultimate. So there doesn't seem to be a choice to sacrifice offense for defense if you want to live long enough to get a kill. Magica nb, templar and sorc all have a ranged execute. All stam classes have access to an execute.

On the topic of gap closers I agree chains are crap. I switched from using a gap closer to using fossilize in 1.5 and don't find the lack of a gap closer to be a huge problem (even with the lack of speed). We still have access to shielded assault/invasion (granted a steep stamina cost which reduces our block/break free/dodge roll utility) or the (still) craptacular chains. Gap closers are now all zos balanced with the templars gap closer (ie they are all performing dreadfully). Heavens forbid you want to use one on a slight slope or if the ground has pebbles on it.

I'd still prefer to get the Burst instant heal from whip then the HoT, id also like to se a slight increase on the base damage of whip.

Oh! Unstable flame, give it back to me as a magica morph please.