I need some DK tanking help

Lynx7386 · June 2016

So I ran vet spindleclutch last night with my guild on my brand spanking new vet 1 khajiit dragonknight tank... I was running 7/7 heavy, using 1h/shield on both bars. Sets were 5 pc tava's and 4 pc clever alchemist, stats split roughly evenly between health/magicka/stamina, enchants split similarly.

Front bar (single target)
Pierce armor
Empowering chains
Heroic slash
Reflective scales
Shuffle
Ferocious Leap

Back bar (aoe)
Choking talons
Deep Breath
Eruption
Igneous Shield
Igneous Weapons
Magma Shell

Needless to say, throughout the entire dungeon I was getting killed a -lot-, and was constantly having resource management issues. I was out of magicka within just a few casts of my magicka abilities, and stamina didnt last much longer than that. I based this build loosely on deltia's tava dk tanking build for ultimate generation, but honestly I didnt notice a whole lot of extra ultimate gen over what I'd have without shuffle or the set. On top of that, I had a hell of a time keeping all the different buffs up all the time with the resource issues, even using ferocious leap as often as possible.

The only time I actually felt like a proper tank was on the final boss where I had no adds to deal with and didnt have such a massive amount of incoming damage that I could let block down every once in a while to get an attack in and recover some stamina. Even with the tava set and heroic slash, My ultimate generation was so slow that I could only use magma shell for the party every 2-3 times the boss did his little teleport-around-and-hit-everyone attack.

Now, granted, I leveled this character as stamina DPS and dont have all the passives or abilities like vigor unlocked yet to utilize, but even so, I felt absolutely pathetic as a tank for the group - some of the dps could take more damage than i could before going down.

It should be noted that this is on PS4, so no dark brotherhood improvements to heavy armor yet - I'm not sure how much that will actually help though. Would I be better off tanking in light or medium armor instead to keep resource regeneration up? How much is that going to effect survivability?

yodased · June 2016

Your problem is you are thinking too much like other games.

You can't hybrid balance this game.

Dk tank you can go magic shield/cc/utility or stam mitigate tank.

Do you want to taunt and block or do you like more active roles?

Curragraigue · June 2016

I prefer Twice Born Star 5 pieces medium, 2 piece Bloodspawn, 2 Oblivion's Foe and 3 piece endurance. If your VR1 and don't have the two piece Bloodspawn go another two piecies Oblivion (light armour for more magicka regen). I have caltrops instead of deep breath, GDB instead of shield and shifting standard on my trash bar. I also use shield instead of scales and either immovable brute or the health return DoT on my boss bar. Make sure to time your ult right for resource recovery.

Your biggest problem with your current set up is too many high cost magicka skills and not enough regen from your sets for a stam DK imo.

I'm using Tava on my stam NB off tank. The combo of Bloodspawn, dodge Tava and pot passive from NB do add up to a noticeable speeding up of ult. Should get similar results with Bloodspawn, tava and earthen hear passive with a DK.

Lynx7386 · June 2016

I'd prefer not having to hold down block all the time, if the option is available. I try to time blocks to heavier attacks from enemies.

Lynx7386 · June 2016

Curragraigue wrote: »

I'm using Tava on my stam NB off tank. The combo of Bloodspawn, dodge Tava and pot passive from NB do add up to a noticeable speeding up of ult. Should get similar results with Bloodspawn, tava and earthen hear passive with a DK.

If it comes to it I may just give up on the DK tank and use my nighblade main for when the guild needs a tank. He's set up for stamina DPS, but he's also got something like 200-300 skill points available now so I'd be able to easily swap gear and spec into 3-4 different weapon trees and two armor trees if needed.

Might be better off just leaving the DK as a stamina dps for those days I want to breathe green fire.

Curragraigue · June 2016

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Curragraigue wrote: »

I'm using Tava on my stam NB off tank. The combo of Bloodspawn, dodge Tava and pot passive from NB do add up to a noticeable speeding up of ult. Should get similar results with Bloodspawn, tava and earthen hear passive with a DK.

If it comes to it I may just give up on the DK tank and use my nighblade main for when the guild needs a tank. He's set up for stamina DPS, but he's also got something like 200-300 skill points available now so I'd be able to easily swap gear and spec into 3-4 different weapon trees and two armor trees if needed.

Might be better off just leaving the DK as a stamina dps for those days I want to breathe green fire.

I'm not much of a blocker with my off tanks either. The magicka DK suits that style better than the stam DK imo. Can still be done and you should always have stam for when you need to block the boss but with all the adds having magicka to burn is more fun and easier with trash fights on a DK.

Lynx7386 · June 2016

How would this be for a tava's nightblade medium armor tank build?

Bar 1: 1h/shield
Surprise attack (spammable to keep shadow barrier active)
Inner Beast / Pierce Armor (taunt)
Heroic Slash (ultimate generation)
Elude (or Mirage, for dodge chance buff)
Resolving Vigor (heal)
Bolstering Darkness (60% damage reduction ultimate for the tank, 30% for others)

Bar 2: 2h
Brawler (Spammable / damage shield)
Siphoning Attacks (help with resource management on aoe packs)
Razor caltrops (AoE snare/damage)
Circle of Preservation (Damage reduction aoe)
Rally (heal)
Probably pack leader for the 15% stamina recovery bonus while slotted

Curragraigue · June 2016

Lynx7386 wrote: »

How would this be for a tava's nightblade medium armor tank build?

Bar 1: 1h/shield
Surprise attack (spammable to keep shadow barrier active)
Inner Beast / Pierce Armor (taunt)
Heroic Slash (ultimate generation)
Elude (or Mirage, for dodge chance buff)
Resolving Vigor (heal)
Bolstering Darkness (60% damage reduction ultimate for the tank, 30% for others)

Bar 2: 2h
Brawler (Spammable / damage shield)
Siphoning Attacks (help with resource management on aoe packs)
Razor caltrops (AoE snare/damage)
Circle of Preservation (Damage reduction aoe)
Rally (heal)
Probably pack leader for the 15% stamina recovery bonus while slotted

Yep could work. I like having shuffle for the snare removal. Personally I like having shuffle on both bars because it needs to be up 100% with Tava. If you can fit it heroic slash on both bars for the same reason. I like soul tether on my trash bar works well to provide cc and health when tanking the trash.

PainfulFAFA · June 2016

Try reactive armor (i think thats what its called) so that you can get that extra resist bonus since ur running shuffle.

Curragraigue · June 2016

Oh forget the most important one. Swap surprise attack for siphoning strikes. As a tank you need resources and taking a hit on damage to get them back is not a problem. Running Tava resources can be an issue so highly recommended. With DB changes heavy might be an option if your stam NB is quishy as well.

Lynx7386 · June 2016

I had surprise attack there because it applies the major spell and physical resist buffs every 4 seconds via the shadow barrier passive

Savos_Saren · June 2016

@yodased

Actually, you can hybrid tank... but you have to be careful about resource management (which most likely you'll get through ultimates). Imma just leave this here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/271275/dark-brotherhood-argonian-true-hybrid-dk-tank-revisited#latest

@Lynx7386

I don't know what to tell you, bud. The Khajiit is better off as a DPS DK than a Tank DK. I'm sure the extra crits and surprise crit rush from a 2H would help as well! If you want a very, very hard-hitting "tanky" build but mostly put out damage- I'd look into Dreugh King Slayer and/or Ravager. I'm not saying that you can't tank with the Khajiit... I just think it's always going to be an unnecessary struggle.

Lynx7386 · June 2016

My groups tend to run 3 dps and a healer for most pledges, but there are times when it'd be nice to swap to tanking for certain fights, that's more what I'm after I guess.

Curragraigue · June 2016

Lynx7386 wrote: »

My groups tend to run 3 dps and a healer for most pledges, but there are times when it'd be nice to swap to tanking for certain fights, that's more what I'm after I guess.

Khajiit NB all the way then.

@Lynx7386 surprise attack is assassin's tree not shadow. I run refreshing path spam for that passive and for a small health return.

Lynx7386 · June 2016

you're thinking assassin's blade. Surprise attack is a stamina morph of veiled strike, the second ability in the shadow tree. It's the only stamina ability that can be used to keep shadow barrier active (everything else costs magicka, which I dont have anything invested in). Surprise attack also applies major fracture, which helps out the stamina dps types in the group.

Think I'm going to give the offtank thing a try for a few pledges and see how it works out, had an extra 20 or so skill points unspent on my nightblade to fill out the 1h/shield tree and pick up the other skills I needed.

Curragraigue · June 2016

Lynx7386 wrote: »

you're thinking assassin's blade. Surprise attack is a stamina morph of veiled strike, the second ability in the shadow tree. It's the only stamina ability that can be used to keep shadow barrier active (everything else costs magicka, which I dont have anything invested in). Surprise attack also applies major fracture, which helps out the stamina dps types in the group.

Think I'm going to give the offtank thing a try for a few pledges and see how it works out, had an extra 20 or so skill points unspent on my nightblade to fill out the 1h/shield tree and pick up the other skills I needed.

Whoops it was ambush I was thinking of. So used to ambush and surprise attack together that the names have blended in my mind, lol. Give it a go if you have a group you play with you can test run it.

I'm on PS4 NA as well so happy to run dungeon with you if you do want to test it or if you did need someone to off tank for you.

yodased · June 2016

jaburns wrote: »

@yodased

Actually, you can hybrid tank... but you have to be careful about resource management (which most likely you'll get through ultimates). Imma just leave this here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/271275/dark-brotherhood-argonian-true-hybrid-dk-tank-revisited#latest

@Lynx7386

I don't know what to tell you, bud. The Khajiit is better off as a DPS DK than a Tank DK. I'm sure the extra crits and surprise crit rush from a 2H would help as well! If you want a very, very hard-hitting "tanky" build but mostly put out damage- I'd look into Dreugh King Slayer and/or Ravager. I'm not saying that you can't tank with the Khajiit... I just think it's always going to be an unnecessary struggle.

But why? You are gimp ingredients yourself just to say you are a hybrid? If you concentrated on one pool you would be significantly better for the group.

Armitas · June 2016

Here is what I use with close to infinite sustain and 30k physical mit 33k spell mit and no worries about blocking.

Armor
5 Blackrose heavy with max magicka (This buffs constitution passive and gives you a lot of health and stam)
2 heavy engine guardian (forget stat cause can't log due to maintenance)
Weapons
2 s/b deaths wind with spell/weapon power glyphs (this gives physical defense)
2 s/b torugs pact with spell/weapon power glyphs (This gives Spell Damage)
Jewelry
3 Knightmare pieces with 1 block reduction and 2 magicka cost reduction glyphs (this gives physical defense and health)
Ideally 3 Lunar Bastion. (This gives 5% less boss damage and more healing)

Torugs Pact Bar.

Burning Embers
Draw essence
Choking Talons
Igenous shield
Inner Rage
Ultimate Meteor

Deaths Wind Bar

Defensive Posture
Igneous Weapons
Spiked Armor
Engulfing Flames
Pierce Armor
Ultimate - Aggressive War Horn

A lot of my choices are limited due to PvP decisions so put chains where you can (probably embers or engulfing if there is a mDK in the group). For heals use burning embers and if there are adds draw essence. Pop Igneous shields for stam or if the group is getting hurt or if you are going to take a power hit. Keep engulfing flames and burning embers dots going and do full heavy attack weaves with Pierce Armor for damage. (Just block the power attacks). Pop Aggressive war horn at the start of a boss fight. For mob pulls use engulfing flames, talons and draw essence and meteor. You can probably get around 4-5k dps on boss fights and 11-15k on aoe mob pulls.

LadyNalcarya · June 2016

Curragraigue wrote: »

Your biggest problem with your current set up is too many high cost magicka skills and not enough regen from your sets for a stam DK imo.

This.
And Tava's set is perfect for dk tanks that get a lot of extra resourses from their ultimates. You can still reach high defence values. You can combine it with any other crafted set - with defense stats or magicka regen (not max magicka, just regen: you cana also pick Atronach mundus). Atm I'm wearing 5xTava, 2xBloodspawn and 5xEbon Armory, but that's a cp160 gear setup and can be pretty pricey. If you dont like Bloodspawn, you can use Engine Guardian.
Also make sure than you have that Eathern heart passive that gives you stamina on using abilities from that skill tree.
As for skill bars, I usually set them like this:
main bar:
Heroic slash - extra ulti, dmg debuff, nuff said. Dont spam it, but use regulalry.
Pierce armor - taunt and armor debuff.
Vigor - an extremely useful skill, especially for pug situations. I'd strongly recommend getting it asap, but if you dont have it, you can use dragon blood, but it only gives a decent heal if youre about to die, and consumes too much mana.
Spiked armor - either morph, gives a major armor buff
Defensive posture - a skill from 1h and shield skilline, gives you extra block mitigation and cost reduction. Dont activate it all the time, just slot.

Ultimate - Agressive warhorn. Can be replaced with standart or any other dps ulti if your group is weak.

secondary bar:
Chain - forgot the name, the one that pulls targets to you. Use it on ranged mobs if they ran away.
Inner fire - ranged taunt from undaunted skilline. If you morph it, take the magicka morph.
Shuffle - dont remember morph's name, but not the one that is boosted by medium armor pieces. Dodge from this ability procs Tava's set.
Igneous weapons/shield - to restore stamina and buff allies.
Talons - cc ability, dmg reduction.
Ulti - magma armor. This is just an "oh *** button" for unexpected situations.

Of course, this is a bit of overkill for dungeons, but if players in your group are not very experienced, extra sturdy-ness will only help.