No choice regarding one's character should be 100% permanent.

Azurephoenix999 · May 2016

The one thing I absolutely hate in this game is how once you've made your character, there are a few crucial choices that you're not allowed to return to.

You come to regret the race you've chosen later down the line? "reroll [Snip]".
Your character has a goofy hairstyle? "Lol, just roll an alt".
Your class gets screwed over in the most recent update and you want to play as a different one? "start a new character."
Your character's name no longer appeals to you? "Just make a new one!"
Your friends are all in a different alliance and you want to play with them outside of a group delve or trial? "REROLL!"

Every time someone suggests an alliance change, a class change, or even a race change or the ability to re-customise your character, they're pounced on by a ton of people telling them to reroll and move on.

"It's an MMO, people are supposed to have more than one character."

Who cares if it's an MMO? That doesn't automatically mean that it needs to be like every other MMO. Even if we're "supposed" to have more than one character, under no circumstances should it be mandatory to start an entirely new one in order to change just one thing about it.

So here, I've provided reasons why we should be allowed to change each aspect of our characters without being forced to reroll.

Appearance

If we want to change our character's name, hairstyle, or gender (things that don't affect gameplay in the slightest I might add) we should not be forced to start the whole game again purely so we can create the exact same character as our current one with one minor alteration.

Alliance

Being able to change a character's alliance cold turkey might be a little much, but there is no reason to be against cross-alliance play outside of dungeons.

With regards to Alliance, it might be difficult to implement cross-alliance play in all areas, but there have been literally tons of suggestions on the matter in these forums, and quite a few that I've seen would be preferable to what we have now ("Roll an alt or you'll only be able to play with your friends in a series of repetitive linear dungeons").

Oh, and to those idiots that keep whining "lorebreaking", don't forget that the Light of Meridia we currently have breaks the lore in exactly the same way. If your first reaction after reading that was to jump to the light's defense in anyway ("BUT IT'S MAGIC!!1!"), then I'd like to point out that all ZOS has to do to make cross-alliance play lore-friendly is to slap a similar explanation onto it. You don't like that, you can shut your hypocritical pie hole.

Race

Race shouldn't be too much of a stretch either. Regrettably, the people yelling "lorebreaking" are still present for this one, so I'll just quickly remind them that we live in a fantasy world where magic exists and move on. To those who think this would make the game unbalanced, it wouldn't. Race has relatively little impact on a character's playstyle, and people should be able to make their character any race they want it to be.

[bClass[/b]

This is the one people seem to find the most controversial as it has the biggest impact on gameplay. I've taken the time to summarise the biggest complaints here:

It's lorebreaking
It would unbalance the game, everyone would flock to the class that was deemed the best in that current update.
I DON'T LIKE CHANGE!

For the group that use the first argument, no. We know next to nothing about these classes and how they get their abilities or where their magic comes from. Prior to this game, they did not exist in TES canon. Regarding these classes, there is no lore to break.

For the group that use the second argument, it's a valid concern, but we already have systems in place to allow players to rechoose their skill and attribute points. You can even cure Vampirism and Lycanthropy! These are both things things that NPCs in the TES universe fret over constantly, but the player is allowed to go back on a huge decision like this for the sake of convenience.
If I wanted I could switch from a dual wielding DPS to a staff wielding mage. It'd cost me a pretty penny in gold, but I'd certainly be able to do it. Considering we can already do this, why not go the extra mile and allow people to change classes?
In the event that everybody does flock to one class, it'd be because of a severe inbalance that would need addressing. If ZOS monitored the feature, they could use it to collect data and improve the game. Do you hear me? This could actually be a good thing!

For the group that use the third argument, you're in the wrong game. ESO is supposed to evolve, not stay in the same state forever. If it did, it'd get old and boring real fast.

"If people could change everything about their character, they'd only ever need one!"

Not true. I mean, it would be if changing these things was super easy, but it doesn't need to be. Putting any kind of difficulty and inconvenience in front of things like this will be enough to deter most players (i.e. the people who just want to abuse it) unless the thing they're looking to change is really important to them.

Conclusion

No choice regarding one's character should be 100% permanent. I don't believe that the game would be made inherently worse by at least making changes like this possible.
Instead of insisting that people reroll when they make a mistake during character creation, support them in their quest to attract ZOS' attention. In the end, it's up to them whether or not changes are made to the game.

[Edit for censor bypass]

Tryxus · May 2016

Patience is a virtue

Kammakazi · May 2016

I wish some choice in the real world wasn't permanent, but oh well, right?

Taisynn · May 2016

+1

I would love to get the option to revisit my main. She was my first character and I have been playing since BETA. Even just to be able to change her sliders would be nice. Because her face needs a lil' refining and I really want to fix her height and weight.

stewhead2ub17_ESO · May 2016

Reroll

susmitds · May 2016

Nope, choices should matter. After all as the saying goes - Choices build character.

It is and should remain quite literal here.

Azurephoenix999 · May 2016

Kammakazi wrote: »

I wish some choice in the real world wasn't permanent, but oh well, right?

Pity we're not talking about real life, are we?

Shadowfx1970 · May 2016

I think alliance change just once should be allowed, or at least be able to join in group and do areas such as Wrothgar and Craglorn but alas I doubt that will come before I can get another char levelled up on the alliance I want.

Lynx7386 · May 2016

What a lot of these people spouting "just reroll!" fail to understand is that this game requires an absolutely massive time investment, and that's something that anyone out of highschool doesnt have an excess of.

I started playing ESO at PC launch, I rerolled a couple times before passing level 20 or so to try out different classes and find my preferred playstyle. I have taken a few long breaks since, but that 'first' character I made is still only vet 10. Been here since the start, and I havent even hit the level cap yet 2 years later.

If I wanted to change things about that character - whether it be class, race, appearance, name, whatever (and some of those are things I would like to change right now), I'd have to start over - losing all of the progress I've made and all that time and effort invested. It's simply not an option, so I just have to live with it.

Azurephoenix999 · May 2016

susmitds wrote: »

Nope, choices should matter. After all as the saying goes - Choices build character.

It is and should remain quite literal here.

So I guess once you become a Vampire or Werewolf you should be forced to stay like that, right?
"Yeah, you became a Vampire before you found out about the weakness to fire, now you're stuck with it. Start another character or deal with it, [Snip]."

Or what about never being able to revisit your attribute points?
"What's that? You didn't know how much min/maxing mattered in the endgame? Better reroll, n00b."

We're talking about a game here, this is something people play to have fun.

Imagine all of the time you've invested into your main. Every time someone encounters a dilemma like this and people simply tell them to reroll, think about how much time it's going to take for them to do EVERYTHING again.

That isn't fun, it's annoying. Games shouldn't be annoying.

[Edit for censor bypass]

Serenityx · May 2016

Class/race change will not and should not ever be inplemented in any MMO. Also, with DB you literally will be able to play every stupid little race and class ZOS has *** out for us much easier. Your entire argument about race/class seems moot saying as "re-rolling" will be incredibly ez.

Valrien · May 2016

Serenityx wrote: »

Class/race change will not and should not ever be inplemented in any MMO. Also, with DB you literally will be able to play every stupid little race and class ZOS has *** out for us much easier. Your entire argument about race/class seems moot saying as "re-rolling" will be incredibly ez.

I seem to remember "Hearts of Wood" in DDO that the entire purpose was to allow you to change mistakes you made during leveling (including class).

Azurephoenix999 · May 2016

[This post has been removed.]

I don't think you fully comprehend just how much time and effort must be invested into a main.

To spend 500+ hours on one character, then be told by someone else to basically do it all again is just annoying.

Azurephoenix999 · May 2016

Serenityx wrote: »

Class/race change will not and should not ever be inplemented in any MMO.

Wow, really? You didn't know about WoW, really?

Aleraon · May 2016

If you want to change a characters name, appearance, class and faction isn't that by any definition re rolling?

With 8 character slots available and another 4 available with dark brotherhood and 3 deletes available every 24 hour period or so how many goes does it take to make character you're happy with.

If you want to unlock every class on one character maybe try a game like skyforge. You can even dual people you're grouped with if you want that kind of thing.

Azurephoenix999 · May 2016

Aleraon wrote: »

If you want to change a characters name, appearance, class and faction isn't that by any definition re rolling?

No, re rolling is to start a new character (i.e. with exactly zero levelling progression, quests completed, skyshards collected, etc.)

Aleraon wrote: »

With 8 character slots available and another 4 available with dark brotherhood and 3 deletes available every 24 hour period or so how many goes does it take to make character you're happy with.

If the "character you're happy with" is the exact same character you have now, but a different class/race/hairstyle, then it will take approx. the same amount of time you've already spent on that character. If you've already spent 500+ hours on one character, it'd likely take you 500+ hours to get back to the point you were. That is the main reason why I believe there should always be an alternative.

Aleraon wrote: »

If you want to unlock every class on one character maybe try a game like skyforge. You can even dual people you're grouped with if you want that kind of thing.

Not saying we should be able to get every class on one character. I'm saying we should be able to CHANGE class. You know, switch the one we have with another?

And since you brought it up, duelling another player is something that should be in every MMO.

YeOldeGamer · May 2016

I disagree. Your choices should matter. Reroll. This time you'll be wiser. Live and learn.

Gidorick · May 2016

I disagree solely on the fact that we can make alternate characters.

I would question why someone who spends 500 hours on a character suddenly decides they don't like him anymore.

And in ESO the point is almost moot because CPs are shared.

It doesn't take that long to get to level 50.

notimetocare · May 2016

Azurephoenix999 wrote: »

The one thing I absolutely hate in this game is how once you've made your character, there are a few crucial choices that you're not allowed to return to.
You come to regret the race you've chosen later down the line? "reroll [Snip]".

Your character has a goofy hairstyle? "Lol, just roll an alt".

Your class gets screwed over in the most recent update and you want to play as a different one? "start a new character."

Your character's name no longer appeals to you? "Just make a new one!"

Your friends are all in a different alliance and you want to play with them outside of a group delve or trial? "REROLL!"

Every time someone suggests an alliance change, a class change, or even a race change or the ability to re-customise your character, they're pounced on by a ton of people telling them to reroll and move on.

"It's an MMO, people are supposed to have more than one character."

Who cares if it's an MMO? That doesn't automatically mean that it needs to be like every other MMO. Even if we're "supposed" to have more than one character, under no circumstances should it be mandatory to start an entirely new one in order to change just one thing about it.

So here, I've provided reasons why we should be allowed to change each aspect of our characters without being forced to reroll.

Appearance

If we want to change our character's name, hairstyle, or gender (things that don't affect gameplay in the slightest I might add) we should not be forced to start the whole game again purely so we can create the exact same character as our current one with one minor alteration.

Alliance

Being able to change a character's alliance cold turkey might be a little much, but there is no reason to be against cross-alliance play outside of dungeons.

With regards to Alliance, it might be difficult to implement cross-alliance play in all areas, but there have been literally tons of suggestions on the matter in these forums, and quite a few that I've seen would be preferable to what we have now ("Roll an alt or you'll only be able to play with your friends in a series of repetitive linear dungeons").

Oh, and to those idiots that keep whining "lorebreaking", don't forget that the Light of Meridia we currently have breaks the lore in exactly the same way. If your first reaction after reading that was to jump to the light's defense in anyway ("BUT IT'S MAGIC!!1!"), then I'd like to point out that all ZOS has to do to make cross-alliance play lore-friendly is to slap a similar explanation onto it. You don't like that, you can shut your hypocritical pie hole.

Race

Race shouldn't be too much of a stretch either. Regrettably, the people yelling "lorebreaking" are still present for this one, so I'll just quickly remind them that we live in a fantasy world where magic exists and move on. To those who think this would make the game unbalanced, it wouldn't. Race has relatively little impact on a character's playstyle, and people should be able to make their character any race they want it to be.

[bClass[/b]

This is the one people seem to find the most controversial as it has the biggest impact on gameplay. I've taken the time to summarise the biggest complaints here:
It's lorebreaking

It would unbalance the game, everyone would flock to the class that was deemed the best in that current update.

I DON'T LIKE CHANGE!

For the group that use the first argument, no. We know next to nothing about these classes and how they get their abilities or where their magic comes from. Prior to this game, they did not exist in TES canon. Regarding these classes, there is no lore to break.

For the group that use the second argument, it's a valid concern, but we already have systems in place to allow players to rechoose their skill and attribute points. You can even cure Vampirism and Lycanthropy! These are both things things that NPCs in the TES universe fret over constantly, but the player is allowed to go back on a huge decision like this for the sake of convenience.
If I wanted I could switch from a dual wielding DPS to a staff wielding mage. It'd cost me a pretty penny in gold, but I'd certainly be able to do it. Considering we can already do this, why not go the extra mile and allow people to change classes?
In the event that everybody does flock to one class, it'd be because of a severe inbalance that would need addressing. If ZOS monitored the feature, they could use it to collect data and improve the game. Do you hear me? This could actually be a good thing!

For the group that use the third argument, you're in the wrong game. ESO is supposed to evolve, not stay in the same state forever. If it did, it'd get old and boring real fast.

"If people could change everything about their character, they'd only ever need one!"

Not true. I mean, it would be if changing these things was super easy, but it doesn't need to be. Putting any kind of difficulty and inconvenience in front of things like this will be enough to deter most players (i.e. the people who just want to abuse it) unless the thing they're looking to change is really important to them.

Conclusion

No choice regarding one's character should be 100% permanent. I don't believe that the game would be made inherently worse by at least making changes like this possible.
Instead of insisting that people reroll when they make a mistake during character creation, support them in their quest to attract ZOS' attention. In the end, it's up to them whether or not changes are made to the game.

Short version: You are a fool to think this is all about 'lore breaking' or that 'lorebreaking' already matters (possibly because you ignore that the entire concept of templar is lorebreaking...)
Long version: Issues like a lack of permanence are balance issues.
-Class should ALWAYS be permanent. Especially with the pvp and pve skill line progression, being able to class change is asking for FoTM rerolling with full power. If someone wants to be able to do that it HAS to be earned. We can't stop FoTM, but we can make it more effort than it is worse.
-Race change: I have dealt with this in other games, its not as much of an issue, but it is a balance issue.
-Faction change: This is an issue that has caused the massive imbalance of populations in every game it has entered. If you don;t see this as a problem in a purely faction based pvp game, you are blind or dumb.
-Appearance: This is a fine change to have, but if you are honestly that focused on how your character looks, this is your problem and NOT the developers (I say this as an RPer who does care about how my characters looks)

nimander99 · May 2016

They are working on adding a race/class/character appearance change options for the Crown Store that should be coming with a DLC this year. Patience my young Padawan... Patience.

lolo_01b16_ESO · May 2016

Why do you put all those choices in one thread?
- I assume very few people are against a barbershop or some similar way of changing your character's appearance. It's just a matter of time till it get's implemented
- Cross fraction overworld pve in zones like craglorn or the dlc areas would probably also find acceptance within most of the playerbase. But considering the fact, that you coud attack players in pve on thieves guild pts and it still can happen that you spawn at the ad base as dc player in pvp, I don't think zos should add more cross fraction gameplay before they are sure that there will be no unwanted pvp in pve areas.
- I personally am not a fan of changing names of your characters as I want to be able to recognize people that I met ingame before, but if there is a good reason to do so, the support can change it.
- For class and race, why would you want to change them? If I came up with that awesome backstory for a khajiit, but my main would be an altmer, then I wouldn't be satisfied with a race change. That would feel wrong.
If you want them for min max reasons because you want to play fotm, then I say, go ahead and reroll, if you want to have max dps, you should do something for it. Also rerolling is quite fast after db. You'll probably be able to get a char to max including undaunted 9, proxi and all other important skills in 2 or 3 days.

Mojmir · May 2016

reroll,lol?
every game ive played alllows changing things like race,sex,apperance,attributes. nothing is forever.that would be stale,much like the comments "reroll".

Cagro · May 2016

Kammakazi wrote: »

I wish some choice in the real world wasn't permanent, but oh well, right?

There is nothing in this game that is like real life anyway. The option to change class and race will just allow me to enjoy the game more. Substantial changes have being made to the classes and races. Not everybody have time to re-roll. I have being playing since PC beta and I am still just Veteran 9. If they will give me the option to change class and race with crowns, I will do it and I suspect am not alone.

Asherons_Call · May 2016

Aside from cosmetic stuff like hairstyles, you should not be able to change major features of your character. Have patience that the nerf of the month that you are angry about will be rebalanced in another way at some point in the future. Such is the way of things in Mmorpgs. The longer you play these type of games the better you will understand.

Saoirse_Siobhan · May 2016

TheWhiteDarkness wrote: »

I would like this, I started creating a DK argonian Ebonheart Pact Alliance, but was kicked to log screen before I could finish. When I tried again, I picked an argonian thinking that it would automatically make him Pact alliance, even if I have the "Any race, any alliance". Turns out he was put into the Dominion! Grrrr! So I've just left the poor guy in the Wailing Prison until I can figure out what to do. I haven't leveled up or anything and since I haven't advanced in the any alliance themed quests, I should be able to change. I don't want to waste a character slot over a stupid mistake.

I contacted customer support to see if they could change the alliance for me, since I hadn't leveled and I hadn't even left the Wailing Prison! They replied saying that there was no way at this time to change it manually and you have to be really careful when choosing. So I deleted him and re-rolled. Then I got out the tub of Ice-cream.

AOECAPS · May 2016

Quit crying if the class you played has changes and you don't like it level an alt it's not hard and will be even easier with DB.

Rohamad_Ali · May 2016

notimetocare · May 2016

Cagro wrote: »

Kammakazi wrote: »

I wish some choice in the real world wasn't permanent, but oh well, right?

There is nothing in this game that is like real life anyway. The option to change class and race will just allow me to enjoy the game more. Substantial changes have being made to the classes and races. Not everybody have time to re-roll. I have being playing since PC beta and I am still just Veteran 9. If they will give me the option to change class and race with crowns, I will do it and I suspect am not alone.

You are the only one keeping yourself from alts, if you actually played since release and are onyl v9 that is on you. I dont have tons of time to play, still have multiple v16.

kongkim · May 2016

Let me guss. 99% of the people in here never play Hardcore in other games or play survival games.

Choices need to matter.

Artis · May 2016

Azurephoenix999 wrote: »

"If people could change everything about their character, they'd only ever need one!"

How is that a bad thing? A character is simply a player's avatar which he uses to explore the game world. I would like to play only one character and be able to try everything, just like in TES games.

Agree with you OP. And I was with since beta-tests and wrote about it in feedback. Let's hope they finally listen to us

Regarding race - they did remove softcaps and changed some passives, so our choice of race is already devalued. Pretty strange that they still didn't let us change the race for free or very cheap to make up for that.

Kammakazi wrote: »

I wish some choice in the real world wasn't permanent, but oh well, right?

If only in game we didn't have to do all that and it was possible not to make choices permanent so players don't suffer choice anxiety and don't regret their choices later for like the rest of their character's life (I obviously wont' reroll, my character has 16k+ achievement points).....

Oh wait, it is possible, because it's a computer game, not the real world.

Rohamad_Ali · May 2016

kongkim wrote: »

Let me guss. 99% of the people in here never play Hardcore in other games or play survival games.

Choices need to matter.

I've played many . I'm not sure this applies to ESO in any way however . There is no encumbrance system or any realistic properties to this fantasy setting where potions magically heal you , Crabs drop full sized shields from their corpses and running around in a balled up group keeps you safer from damaging ground effects .