RIP SORC!

Nifty2g · April 2016

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Laggus wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.

i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction

That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.

First page of QQ and folded already? Theres no way anyone has tried anything out properly yet. This was how Sorcs got OP as hell in the first place.

It's just that now sorcs got nothing really special for survivability, we already didn't have anything to use as a main dps skill, now suddenly everyone got the main benefit of being a sorc while nerfing down sorcs only defence.

the main benefit is not nerfed at all, your shield will never last more than 8 seconds in combat... now you have 3 shields... why are you even complaining. And don't tell me how you waste time casting shields, have you never seen a sorc pvp video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMUkn4Sjojk
so whats your issue man

That all other classes got the sorcs main defence too while leaving sorcs without anything special at all. At this rate we can just play any other class and pretend we're a sorc anyway......

They got a shield to shield help them against physical damage.. it was very needed and a max stat shield.

you still have hardened ward, you can still shield stack, sorcs have THREE shields against physical damage while others have 2.

The QQ here is immense, you're not losing anything... Sorcs will still shield stack and shield stack harder than ever now

Digiman · April 2016

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.

i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction

That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.

@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.

It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.

The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · April 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Laggus wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.

i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction

That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.

First page of QQ and folded already? Theres no way anyone has tried anything out properly yet. This was how Sorcs got OP as hell in the first place.

It's just that now sorcs got nothing really special for survivability, we already didn't have anything to use as a main dps skill, now suddenly everyone got the main benefit of being a sorc while nerfing down sorcs only defence.

the main benefit is not nerfed at all, your shield will never last more than 8 seconds in combat... now you have 3 shields... why are you even complaining. And don't tell me how you waste time casting shields, have you never seen a sorc pvp video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMUkn4Sjojk
so whats your issue man

That all other classes got the sorcs main defence too while leaving sorcs without anything special at all. At this rate we can just play any other class and pretend we're a sorc anyway......

They got a shield to shield help them against physical damage.. it was very needed and a max stat shield.

you still have hardened ward, you can still shield stack, sorcs have THREE shields against physical damage while others have 2.

The QQ here is immense, you're not losing anything... Sorcs will still shield stack and shield stack harder than ever now

The thing sorcs lost are the unique things they had going about them, now I can be a sorc with any other class pretty much but still do better than one. I'd like to get NB's stealth then to make things more even as they obviously don't care about class diversity. :P

Frenkthevile · April 2016

FINALLY they nerfed the most op skill in the game!!!
Go take some health buffs like the other classes now...

Caza99 · April 2016

OMG WAT!? Sorcs actually have to work for a kill now?

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · April 2016

Caza99 wrote: »

OMG WAT!? Sorcs actually have to work for a kill now?

Any other class will have an easier time than a sorc now, besides, you got two NB's, don't talk about having to work for a kill when you play the most OP class in the game.

WeerW3ir · April 2016

pathethic

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · April 2016

WeerW3ir wrote: »

pathethic

Yes, zenimax are, as are all the people thinking this is a good thing.

Caza99 · April 2016

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Caza99 wrote: »

OMG WAT!? Sorcs actually have to work for a kill now?

Any other class will have an easier time than a sorc now, besides, you got two NB's, don't talk about having to work for a kill when you play the most OP class in the game.

Lol I also have a sorc and a Templar. Only one of the night blades are v16 and he was my first character from launch. And if you remember correctly, night blades did have to work for a kill back then

Sorcs don't have it as bad as everyone seems to think.
Also, don't judge me based on my class. Just because I play a nb, doesn't mean I play the same cookie cutter build. Breton Stam blade isn't exactly op.

ginoboehm · April 2016

Derra wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Let me ask you something, how is this even an issue?

If you're in a fight your shield isn't going to last 8 seconds. Why is this even an issue, are you all just posting because you see it has a time reduction?

Nothing has changed...

If anything sorcs now have 3 shields against physical damage.

It´s not. The only thing changing is sorcs are now super vulnerable for ganking. Which i suspect was the main point.

The Harness/Dampen change is stupid - no other way to put it. Now ppl are going to stack three shields all of them absorbing every type of dmg a solution only zos could come up with.

Players: We want less shields.
ZOS: Ok everyone gets a hardened ward.
Players:

exactly ganking will be the issue with the crazy nb buffs . i would think impen is now mandatory even for sorcs. i don't like the ganking meta but at least on the sorc i can still use the ability that traps players that jump me

ginoboehm · April 2016

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Laggus wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.

i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction

That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.

First page of QQ and folded already? Theres no way anyone has tried anything out properly yet. This was how Sorcs got OP as hell in the first place.

It's just that now sorcs got nothing really special for survivability, we already didn't have anything to use as a main dps skill, now suddenly everyone got the main benefit of being a sorc while nerfing down sorcs only defence.

the main benefit is not nerfed at all, your shield will never last more than 8 seconds in combat... now you have 3 shields... why are you even complaining. And don't tell me how you waste time casting shields, have you never seen a sorc pvp video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMUkn4Sjojk
so whats your issue man

That all other classes got the sorcs main defence too while leaving sorcs without anything special at all. At this rate we can just play any other class and pretend we're a sorc anyway......

oh god guys we have 3 shields now it is still one shield more than anybody nothing changed it went from 2 to 3 shields working against every damage and all the other builds went from 1 to 2. sorcs will be able to damage longer without reapplying shields in more situations. in fight shields seldom last 8 seconds anyway now they perhaps come close.

nobody will take any valid complaint of you serious again if you whine about stuff like this

and nothing special ??!?! what are you even talking about we still have curse frags and streak. alone those three skills offer unparalelled mobility and one of the strongest burst in game. not even talking about the disintegration. and freaking overload with having now 2 strong shields on that bar it will be awesome and it's huge downside(lack of defense) is out of the way

WeerW3ir · April 2016

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

WeerW3ir wrote: »

pathethic

Yes, zenimax are, as are all the people thinking this is a good thing.

you kidding right?... youre pathetic too xD

FearlessOne_2014 · April 2016

After trying out all the sorc builds that came to my mind. My conclusion is magicka sorc has no survival nor a competitive dps kit compared to Stam DK and Stam NB, hell even my Mageblade and Mageplar is now in my hands super easy mode compared to the Magicka Sorcerer as of this point on the pts. After many hours of testing builds it's officical I'm going to go back to the live server and delete my 2nd magicka sorcerer and put a Stamblade in her spot and roll a Stam DK in my 8th slot and level them both to atleast V1 so when this DLC goes live I'll be full and ready to just play and have fun playing more braindead classes/builds then the one that ZOS nuked.

This time I will not get out my pitchfork to use against you guys on this fourn. But instead will adapt and overcome as a player who strayed from his most loved class template in Fantasy MMORPGs since Vanilla runescape. After all precedents are made to be overturned, I guess it's my turn.

dimensional · April 2016

Been testing out the changes on PTS and I simply shake my head at everyone crying about the change. Definitely a big L2P issue going on here. As someone who plays with every class and build you can think of, I wholeheartedly agree with this patch to shields in general.

Punn · April 2016

The issue is, now when a sorc even tries to go on the offensive he can't. the time frame of the sheild is too low. this makes it to where by the time you cast both your wards then swap bars do 1 or 2 attacks before your appiled defense is gone.

Nifty2g wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Laggus wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.

i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction

That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.

First page of QQ and folded already? Theres no way anyone has tried anything out properly yet. This was how Sorcs got OP as hell in the first place.

It's just that now sorcs got nothing really special for survivability, we already didn't have anything to use as a main dps skill, now suddenly everyone got the main benefit of being a sorc while nerfing down sorcs only defence.

the main benefit is not nerfed at all, your shield will never last more than 8 seconds in combat... now you have 3 shields... why are you even complaining. And don't tell me how you waste time casting shields, have you never seen a sorc pvp video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMUkn4Sjojk
so whats your issue man

this has to be the worst example to use.
1st. in the beginning the dude didn't even kill anybody till the boss came. there were so many people on him he had to ward stack every sec without ever really doing anything offensive to stay alive.
2nd. Once the boss took care of some of the kills for him, there where multiple times where he didn't reapply wards within 6 secs. this allowed him to go really offensive and get kills.
by making wards 6 secs your not allowing a sorcerer to go offensive at all. making the change to 10 to 12 sec is a far more reasonable change than 6.

Birdovic · April 2016

People dont see the bigger picture of this whole discussion.

So:

- Yes, Sorcerers have access to 3 different shields
- Yes, in PvP this wont be an issue because the shield will be down pretty fast anyway and will ask for a little more timed use than before

So where exactly are the problems?

- 6 Sec duration is just too small for solo Content, especially VMSA
- We may have access to different shields, but activating 2 costs us 2 seconds and gives a pathetic 4 second Timeframe to deal dmg, absolutely demolishing the overall dps even more
- Shields are the only reliable Defense a sorc has, health and stamina are too low because Max Magicka is too important for both, Offensive AND defense, so there is no other way to play.
- Overall damage buffs and defensive possibilities of Stamina Classes is too overwhelming with this patch

Van_0S · April 2016

Come on!!!
MagiSorc where always easy mode!!
Now, finally you guys have to use 10% of your brain.
So, Stop this QQ thread already!!

STEVIL · April 2016

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

you guys realize that you can cast even bigger shields now? harness magicka protects against physical damage now too. the recasting will be annoying tho but since the shields can absorb more now it should work out to actually be stronger. stamina sorcs are *****d tho

Do you realize that stacking those shields would be only pain since just after you put them all on you can cast maybe two skills and then recast the shields again....

BINGO!!!

ITS A PAIN not a nerf per se.

Thats what i like about it.

They did not remove shields or stacking and even boosted annul to cover more dmg types. So you can now have even more shielding an before.

But its not painless anymore.

Before you could backbar these and cadt well before combat.

Now IF YOU CHOOSE TO RELY ON THEM AS MAIN DEFENSE they really will be cast and recast and front bar. They will eat into dps.

So now its a trade off active choice thing.

Want to shield tank? It hurts your dps and limits your options and hey, is overload reflectable and dodgeable?!? Oh and dont get silenced or stunned when you need to recast.

Or maybe go with different defenses and different options.

Had they just capped shields, reduced shield power or setup some major/minor it would have beem static and boring.

I expect the duration may creep during playtest but overall consolidating all shields this way and making them active elements on front bar is a cost-benefit tweak i like.

And btw my "main" is a v16 sorc too and she isnt worried one bit.. just intrigued.

Mush55 · April 2016

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

With sorcs running around with 50k magicka, 2k regen, those shield nerfs were needed.
Did we all just forget that harness magicka now absorbs ALL DAMAGE?.
Sorcs, you now have 3 shields, ALL of which absorb ALL DAMAGE ffs.

WHAT ! I would love 50k and 2k regen try a more realistic on average 38k with 889 regen

The_Lex · April 2016

Might need a Clannfear to help tank.

DjSolJAH · April 2016

Basically with both wards taking physical damage DKs and burst NB builds are screwed... Recasting shields should be in a normal rotation for a sorc. 6 secs may be a little short but when you can animation cancel casting wards.... NBs will not be able to burst through 2 damage shields that absorb physical damage. Will have to wait and see how it turns out.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · April 2016

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

Come on!!!
MagiSorc where always easy mode!!
Now, finally you guys have to use 10% of your brain.
So, Stop this QQ thread already!!

Yet you look like you never used your brain to begin with

All other classes are easy mode now compared to sorcs.

Van_0S · April 2016

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

Come on!!!
MagiSorc where always easy mode!!
Now, finally you guys have to use 10% of your brain.
So, Stop this QQ thread already!!

Yet you look like you never used your brain to begin with
All other classes are easy mode now compared to sorcs.

I had to use it on my magiNB. ( I don't use sypers bombing build)

Before, I was stamina and it was easy but when IC came it became difficult for me to use rally on my Dark elf.

Even, now its abit difficult to give out burst on my magiNB but I learnt a lot of good tricks by just observing my prey

So, I don't spam abilities a lot but now with this changes to proxy, I might start to use less of my brain.

RinaldoGandolphi · April 2016

As i said in another thread, this just makes the Sorc more tanky. The Magic Sorc is honestly now just a tanky caster. The Streak and mobilty nerfs have turned it more into a turret class which i myself don't find fun.

I miss the squishy fast ranged caster of yore that relied on mobility to survive instead of shields...guess you have to roll a stam NB or a Stam Sorc to get that mobility now....overall those that have perfected Sorc will adjust. I myself haven't really been playing my magic sorc a whole lot the last few months anyways as the class morphed into something i don't like.

I have more fun playing a Desto/Resto Templar build....probably going to just roll a stam Sorc because it looks fun, sure it isn't the top of dog build, but the mobility will sure be fun!

Minalan · April 2016

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.

No change you've made to sorc makes up for this, and I can't believe your designers are this dense.

You've just handed every class the same ability as sorcerer hardened ward.

Theres also ZERO reason for a sorc to pick Hardened Ward over Harness Magicka. Harness is about the same size, duration, and it returns magicka, and they will both proc frags. We're talking about our one unique class defense, you're better off using the light armor one.

Worse: your genius devs didn't even lower the cost of hardened ward to make up for cutting it to 30% of the original duration.

They promised to fix shield stacking playstyle, but haven't really because there's no major/minor system to it. People will main-bar both harness and hardened ward, and still use them. All they've done is made the shield mechanic more irritating, on the defense and offense side. So we'll just increase the lag in Cyrodiil hitting the same two buttons over and over and over again.

The dawn breaker change is practically a targeted sorc nerf. physical damage? Really?

The class isn't 'OMG RIP destroyed' but it definitely isn't better, this is just stupid. Asking us to 'try it first' is just insulting our intelligence.

Birdovic · April 2016

Theres also ZERO reason for a sorc to pick Hardened Ward over Harness Magicka. Harness is about the same size, duration, and it returns magicka, and they will both proc frags. We're talking about our one unique class defense, you're better off using the light armor one.

Hey hey hey stop it!
Or we will only cast frags with class abilities soon xD

DODHitman · April 2016

Hymzir wrote: »

With 6 second shield duration all around, you can't pre-cast three shields for ridiculous damage absorption and then charge into combat. You need to use shields during combat, think of it as a magicka based pre-emptive blocking. If you try to stack shields in combat... then that's all you will be doing.

We cant even enter that fight without the shields or we are 1 shotted and we dont have the healing capabilities (as dps/no pets)

Minalan wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.

No change you've made to sorc makes up for this, and I can't believe your designers are this dense.

You've just handed every class the same ability as sorcerer hardened ward.

Theres also ZERO reason for a sorc to pick Hardened Ward over Harness Magicka. Harness is about the same size, duration, and it returns magicka, and they will both proc frags. We're talking about our one unique class defense, you're better off using the light armor one.

Worse: your genius devs didn't even lower the cost of hardened ward to make up for cutting it to 30% of the original duration.

They promised to fix shield stacking playstyle, but haven't really because there's no major/minor system to it. People will main-bar both harness and hardened ward, and still use them. All they've done is made the shield mechanic more irritating, on the defense and offense side. So we'll just increase the lag in Cyrodiil hitting the same two buttons over and over and over again.

The dawn breaker change is practically a targeted sorc nerf. physical damage? Really?

The class isn't 'OMG RIP destroyed' but it definitely isn't better, this is just stupid. Asking us to 'try it first' is just insulting our intelligence.

100% This^^^!

staracino_ESO · April 2016

Expert Mage is a pretty compelling reason to slot Ward over Harness.

Drazkyth · April 2016

The reduction in duration is long overdue.

Minalan · April 2016

staracino_ESO wrote: »

Expert Mage is a pretty compelling reason to slot Ward over Harness.

2% spell damage versus absorbing ALL spell damage as free magicka. Are we playing the same game?