Stam nightblade tips for countering PVP vamp Wrecking Blow mega-heal spammers?

davey1107 · December 2015

No trolling, please...honest question about becoming a better dueler.

So my friend and I are seeing a rise of vamp WB spammers. All they do is do that vamp rush at you move, spam WB, and cast heal over and over. We did a test last night against just such a player using some various strategies, with the intent of dying off to see how his attacks landed and what his sequence was. (He did not seem to realize what we were doing, or why one khajiit just stood there while the other got whacked, or that you don't get good AP from killing the same person over and over. But he was blue, so we didn't expect high IQ or perception skills).

I understand the mechanics of WB, and that you need to get out of the cone. I personally feel it's an OP spam, but until the development team agrees we're stuck with this button mash. Any stam Nightblades out there have moves/sequences that make these players go squish? It's hard to cut through the heavy armor and heals without WB...toss that in and the battle is either lethal for my NB, or a long, boring button mash duel with no winner.

(On a side note, what really sucked was that in one duel I wanted to play with ice comet. I spent my ultimate, got the ding and the opening sound of the attack, then the comet never hit the ground. I don't think it was a dodge...we had server lag weirdness last night.)

ostrapz · December 2015

Wrecking blow can be difficult to deal with because it hits so high and can glitch a litle early on cc immunity. You can sodge it and blocking it can work pretty well but you have to watch your stam closely. You can also try to cloak and move away, be careful tho cuz u can still get hit if u stay in front of them. If someone is wreckig blow spamming its good sometimes to kinda walk into and through them cuz it will break the animation. Idk what vampire rush move ur talkin bout, but dawnbreaker hits vampires extremely hard, u can get it with a week or so in ic

Xeniph · December 2015

As the poster above stated, Blocking, roll dodging and cloaking are quite effective. However you have to time it right.
To dodge, or cloak the ability it needs to be at it's full back swing, otherwise it will still go off. Also, never create distance and given the opportunity walk right through them.

I usually prefer to Cloak the first one, roll the 2nd and block the third. If he is still alive to be spamming I am doing something wrong. With the amount of CC the NB has it's usually best go on the offensive after the first one.

Also as the poster above said, Dawnbreaker can be good against NB's that aren't that knowledgable. But on the good ones it doesn't hit any harder than Surprise Attack and the dot can just be cloaked off.

As for Meteor, more than likely he just cloaked it, as that's quite easily doable if the person casting it doesn't CC at the right moment and prevent it.

However you choose to deal with the WB spam, do your best to alternate resource pool options. That allows your regen some time to recover the spent amount on the defense.

With some practice it's actually one of the easiest abilities to defend against in the game.

Brrrofski · December 2015

If you're seeing so many vamps doing this (really) then just slot came hunter and/or dawnbreaker. Easy mode.

Toc de Malsvi · December 2015

Xeniph wrote: »

As the poster above stated, Blocking, roll dodging and cloaking are quite effective. However you have to time it right.
To dodge, or cloak the ability it needs to be at it's full back swing, otherwise it will still go off. Also, never create distance and given the opportunity walk right through them.

I usually prefer to Cloak the first one, roll the 2nd and block the third. If he is still alive to be spamming I am doing something wrong. With the amount of CC the NB has it's usually best go on the offensive after the first one.

Also as the poster above said, Dawnbreaker can be good against NB's that aren't that knowledgable. But on the good ones it doesn't hit any harder than Surprise Attack and the dot can just be cloaked off.

As for Meteor, more than likely he just cloaked it, as that's quite easily doable if the person casting it doesn't CC at the right moment and prevent it.

However you choose to deal with the WB spam, do your best to alternate resource pool options. That allows your regen some time to recover the spent amount on the defense.

With some practice it's actually one of the easiest abilities to defend against in the game.

This has been tricky for me on my bow builds, first off its completely counter intuitive to not create distance as ranged, secondly if they get a slow on you and strafe its virtually impossible to walk through them. I can dodge roll through, CC, or use a pot, I've watched a guy on a video successfully use magnum shot to keep creating a slightly bigger gap, I'll be honest I haven't tried this although I believe this is the optimal strategy for bow builds.

Xeniph · December 2015

Oh, your using a bow... May as well just lay down a die basically. I have not lost to a bow build as DW/1H/2H since 1.5. They just don't have enough sustain to compete. But I do wish you luck, hope you find something that works for you.

Tankqull · December 2015

if he´s truly a vamp just slot camouflaged hunter... he´ll be dead within one to two attack rounds.

Toc de Malsvi · December 2015

Xeniph wrote: »

Oh, your using a bow... May as well just lay down a die basically. I have not lost to a bow build as DW/1H/2H since 1.5. They just don't have enough sustain to compete. But I do wish you luck, hope you find something that works for you.

Funny 1.5 was the last time I felt competitive with my bow builds in open combat. I can still gank people fine and using my DK I can one shot vamps or low health/armor builds, but I agree the sustain for bow damage is not very good or competitive. The bow damage bonus with range means nothing with the state of gap closers and Sorc's shields being uncritable virtually nullifies ranged physical damage.

QuebraRegra · December 2015

Just work up one of my old characters, a sub VET stamblade.....

Been away since just after IC, is this not the time to return to a bow based STAMBLADE? Should I be rolling a new MAGIBLADE vamp instead?

Danke, I've been away for a while and don't know what the current balance changes have brought.

davey1107 · December 2015

Quebra - as an avid bowman (bowcat? Bowkhajit?) I'll say that with the IC update and the couple after, bows feel massively nerfed. Out in the open you can forget it - bows are slow and don't do enough damage to stop even one opponent...let alone a group.

From keep walls, bows are also notably weaker. Previously I could take out a PVP enemy if I hit them with four Focus Aim shots. Now it's up to 7-8. This stinks all around, both from a gameplay perspective and from a story perspective. Eight hits gives the enemy way too much time to get their act together and go defense, or for group members to save their butts with heals. From a story perspective, it makes no sense for bows to be this weak. If wrecking blow is landing 10k damage with 2h (and it does), bows should be nearly as powerful, not 1/4 as powerful.

Hey, I've been killed by focused aim and I hate it. But giving the bows back some power would make seiging less the idiotic Zerg it's become. Enemies should be encouraged/forced back from the walls by amping up bow attacks so that there's more strategy involved. Right now you set up siege five feet from the wall and shrug off bow snipes easily...it's stupid.

Brutusmax1mus · January 2016

I can 3 shot ez with bows. Gotta have roots, snares, stuns slotted though for those melee attackers.

LBxFinalDeath · January 2016

Super stack weapon damage then just lurk where u know they are gonna be going with camo hunter on.

Watch them leave PvP and come back with tanned skin a few minutes later.

blur · January 2016

ROFL?

HOW TO VAMP RUSH?

Seriously though... "vamp rush?" Wtf does that even mean?

Also, slot ANY form of Expert Hunter and Silver Shards. Vamps are easy mode to kill and as far as wrecking blow goes, try walking into them and turning slightly, it will cancel their WB.

blur · January 2016

davey1107 wrote: »

Quebra - as an avid bowman (bowcat? Bowkhajit?) I'll say that with the IC update and the couple after, bows feel massively nerfed. Out in the open you can forget it - bows are slow and don't do enough damage to stop even one opponent...let alone a group.

From keep walls, bows are also notably weaker. Previously I could take out a PVP enemy if I hit them with four Focus Aim shots. Now it's up to 7-8. This stinks all around, both from a gameplay perspective and from a story perspective. Eight hits gives the enemy way too much time to get their act together and go defense, or for group members to save their butts with heals. From a story perspective, it makes no sense for bows to be this weak. If wrecking blow is landing 10k damage with 2h (and it does), bows should be nearly as powerful, not 1/4 as powerful.

Hey, I've been killed by focused aim and I hate it. But giving the bows back some power would make seiging less the idiotic Zerg it's become. Enemies should be encouraged/forced back from the walls by amping up bow attacks so that there's more strategy involved. Right now you set up siege five feet from the wall and shrug off bow snipes easily...it's stupid.

@davey1107 Not sure what you are doing wrong, but as a DK I can pretty much insta-gib any vamp while using a bow. As a NB I am able to kill people in 1v1 relatively easy as well. Hell my Snipe opener does over 8k. Not even counting the Camo Hunter or the follow up weave I do that hits around the same time my snipe does.

It's not 1.6 but let's be honest, if bows were to have the power you asking for it would be silly. If I had the ability to 1vX just using a bow I would be the most overpowered thing in the game.

olivaresdonjuan · January 2016

Dude you can dodge wb, all of the advice that was mentioned above works. My issue is the vamps with steel tornado. You are a night blade using a bow... Why arent you spamming camo hunter and dawn breaker on the vamps? As a dk I have fire for vamps, poison for wolfs, and dawn breaker for both.

davey1107 · January 2016

Blur - you have some good points. Bows should be completely overpowered. I think the challenge for the designers is balancing them considering they'll be used both as range snipe and in open combat. They kinda stink now for open combat, was my point. Focused aim is slow and often glitchy. But if they given them power for dueling, now when you have three bows on a wall it's gonna suck.

My primary issue isn't the bows are under power, but 2h swords with wrecking are way OP. I did an undaunted last night w three guildies. We wiped on the final because we'd never done that one. Oh...duh...let me switch to WB. Slam, slam, spam...dead. It's stupidly over powered, whether there are counters or not.

blur · January 2016

davey1107 wrote: »

Blur - you have some good points. Bows should be completely overpowered. I think the challenge for the designers is balancing them considering they'll be used both as range snipe and in open combat. They kinda stink now for open combat, was my point. Focused aim is slow and often glitchy. But if they given them power for dueling, now when you have three bows on a wall it's gonna suck.

My primary issue isn't the bows are under power, but 2h swords with wrecking are way OP. I did an undaunted last night w three guildies. We wiped on the final because we'd never done that one. Oh...duh...let me switch to WB. Slam, slam, spam...dead. It's stupidly over powered, whether there are counters or not.

In PvP bow (aside from sneak attack gank combos) feels like a utility line more than anything.

Swindy · January 2016

blur wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

Blur - you have some good points. Bows should be completely overpowered. I think the challenge for the designers is balancing them considering they'll be used both as range snipe and in open combat. They kinda stink now for open combat, was my point. Focused aim is slow and often glitchy. But if they given them power for dueling, now when you have three bows on a wall it's gonna suck.

My primary issue isn't the bows are under power, but 2h swords with wrecking are way OP. I did an undaunted last night w three guildies. We wiped on the final because we'd never done that one. Oh...duh...let me switch to WB. Slam, slam, spam...dead. It's stupidly over powered, whether there are counters or not.

In PvP bow (aside from sneak attack gank combos) feels like a utility line more than anything.

You're quite correct.
On my stamblade it's the ultimate (I hunt solo) gank fest from stealth. Two or three shotting with the original attack from stealth & buffs up is very easy, and about 99% sucessful.
Only ever failed against a few DK's wings and the odd quick Templar.
If they're vamps, it's a no lose.
And I never use an ultimate in ganking. They're my "oh shite he's got friends I need to try to escape now" backup plans.
However, other than Snipe, my Pvp bow bar contains only buffs, Vigor, Retreating Maneuvers, and sometimes Caltrops.
It is so under powered in open combat, but then, that's why you carry a big-arse sword (or daggers) as well isn't it?

Of course, being exterminated by his mates you didn't see coming...well...that's quite common also.
Nobody's perfect lol.

Buffler · January 2016

You can see WB coming a mile away, just walk through the player ambush, suprise att, fear, ambush, suprise att, dark cloak, ambush, suprise att, ultimate time (should be flawless DB if stamblade) and he should be dead!

Stigant · January 2016

I'm not sure what OP means by "vamp rush at you" but I can imagine getting WB spammed to death by someone in Clouding swarm going Stampede->WB spam .. thats not easy to deal with