How do you defeat a Sorcerer as a Nightblade? [PvP Discussion Series]

Minno · December 2015

After a successful thread regarding templars by a Templar seeking valuable advice, viable tactics were mentioned and I'd like to see similar discussions happen for all classes.

Without confusing people, this thread will only be about Nightblades versus sorc fights. Both group/1v1.

Olen_Mikko · December 2015

Shield breaker.

Some counters / debuffs etc.

- Gap closer (ambush) for "countering" bolt escape,
- Fear for stunning / draining stamina
- Cloak + shuffle or blur to increase miss change.
- Reapers mark for weakening armor + spell resitance

Dps

- Dawnbreaker (especially if sorc is vamp like most PvPers starting to be) for ulti.
- Surprise attack for main dps
- Killer's blade for execute

Won't hurt if you use 1h / shield as a resto/buff bar, for defensive stance (reflects next incoming ranged spell and stuns) + use immovable (heavy armor skill) to gain cc immunity.

Waffennacht · December 2015

The NBs that kill me are first and foremost, are offensive! Don't give me any breathing room.

Second, fear! Oh that fear, I can only cc break like twice, get a third fear or stun etc off, im dead from that heavy nb offense.

Cloak is good, however, many players now run moves specifically to deal with cloak. Definitely great, just not the gg it use to be. Plus if things go bad a cloak can get u outta there!

Im a sorc and just thinking of what kills me. Fear is the most common word following a curse word in my pvp group lmao

Father_X_Zombie · December 2015

Waffennacht wrote: »

The NBs that kill me are first and foremost, are offensive! Don't give me any breathing room.

Second, fear! Oh that fear, I can only cc break like twice, get a third fear or stun etc off, im dead from that heavy nb offense.

Cloak is good, however, many players now run moves specifically to deal with cloak. Definitely great, just not the gg it use to be. Plus if things go bad a cloak can get u outta there!

Im a sorc and just thinking of what kills me. Fear is the most common word following a curse word in my pvp group lmao

New thread : "How do you defeat a Nightblade as a Sorcerer [PvP Discussion Series] " lol
I agree, NBs usually are not a problem for me until i cant break out of fear.

Cloaking through my frags is pretty annoying too.

bikerangelo · December 2015

If a sorc is sitting in his mines - scatter shot or fear him out.
If a sorc is shield stacking - fear then surprise attack.
If a sorc is hard casting frags - venom arrow, ambush, fear, then surprise attack.
If a sorc is streaking away - ambush, fear, surprise attack.
If a sorc is cursing you - ambush, fear, block (mitigates curse dmg), cloak then surprise attack.
If a sorc is spamming overload - dodge roll, cloak, surprise attack, ult bomb or whatever.

Depends on the sorcerer, but NBs have plenty of burst, just keep up the dps pressure.

Minno · December 2015

AK47ZOMBIE66 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

The NBs that kill me are first and foremost, are offensive! Don't give me any breathing room.

Second, fear! Oh that fear, I can only cc break like twice, get a third fear or stun etc off, im dead from that heavy nb offense.

Cloak is good, however, many players now run moves specifically to deal with cloak. Definitely great, just not the gg it use to be. Plus if things go bad a cloak can get u outta there!

Im a sorc and just thinking of what kills me. Fear is the most common word following a curse word in my pvp group lmao

New thread : "How do you defeat a Nightblade as a Sorcerer [PvP Discussion Series] " lol
I agree, NBs usually are not a problem for me until i cant break out of fear.

Cloaking through my frags is pretty annoying too.

Lol we will get to Nightblades soon.

Have you sorc's experimented with CP into elusive?

"Reduces the duration of all snare, fear and disorient effects on you by [x]%."

a1x23 · December 2015

bikerangelo wrote: »

If a sorc is sitting in his mines - scatter shot or fear him out.
If a sorc is shield stacking - fear then surprise attack.
If a sorc is hard casting frags - venom arrow, ambush, fear, then surprise attack.
If a sorc is streaking away - ambush, fear, surprise attack.
If a sorc is cursing you - ambush, fear, block (mitigates curse dmg), cloak then surprise attack.
If a sorc is spamming overload - dodge roll, cloak, surprise attack, ult bomb or whatever.

Depends on the sorcerer, but NBs have plenty of burst, just keep up the dps pressure.

As a sorc, I approve this message.

Xeven · December 2015

Ambush > Soul Harvest > Sneak Attack > Fear > Sneak Attack > Killers Blade > Killers Blade

Waffennacht · December 2015

Minno wrote: »

AK47ZOMBIE66 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

The NBs that kill me are first and foremost, are offensive! Don't give me any breathing room.

Second, fear! Oh that fear, I can only cc break like twice, get a third fear or stun etc off, im dead from that heavy nb offense.

Cloak is good, however, many players now run moves specifically to deal with cloak. Definitely great, just not the gg it use to be. Plus if things go bad a cloak can get u outta there!

Im a sorc and just thinking of what kills me. Fear is the most common word following a curse word in my pvp group lmao

New thread : "How do you defeat a Nightblade as a Sorcerer [PvP Discussion Series] " lol
I agree, NBs usually are not a problem for me until i cant break out of fear.

Cloaking through my frags is pretty annoying too.

Lol we will get to Nightblades soon.

Have you sorc's experimented with CP into elusive?

"Reduces the duration of all snare, fear and disorient effects on you by [x]%."

I think about it... sometimes... for a moment...

Then I think 16% of 3 seconds is almost .5 seconds and i think.... why waste my oh so valuable CPs for a max of .5 secs that wont save my life?

Takes-No-Prisoner · December 2015

Couple of things I noticed from my 1v1s with some Sorcs on my NB.

Streak is really good GET OFF ME tool for Sorc who need a panic get out of close combat option. Obviously assuming the NB doesn't have immunity. It's a good way to wear down a NB stamina if you get a chance to use it. And I don't mean just run away at the first sight of danger. A Sorc should be using the stun off it to push the momentum of the fight in his favor. One cast, turn around and smack him with Frags if it proc'ed and get your offense back in order.

For NB out there I can't count how many time I DON'T see folks flashing Cloak....you guys... do realize you get armor and increase weapon damage from going into cloak/hidden(looking at you PS4 NA NBs) ... riiight? If the enemy isn't in CC immunity, you can press the cloak button, go hidden and smack your opponent while inside of stealth and re apply stun. That's absolutely devastating even to a Sorc. With all of the delicious buffs NB get out of cloaking, there is no reason to not be using it actively in combat.

raasdal · December 2015

CC is the key. Drain the stamina and the Sorc will die. Fear is the most annoying CC i experience as a sorc. The first second you dont even see it, which makes it the longest CC.

I agree on the offence partially. Just remember not to get greedy. Most NB i will kill on my backbar spamming shields and weave in a little offence. NB is too focused on the kill to realize he is getting low on health. Never think "oh just two more hits". He will shield and you will die because it was actually 10 hits u needed.

Minno · December 2015

Waffennacht wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

AK47ZOMBIE66 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

The NBs that kill me are first and foremost, are offensive! Don't give me any breathing room.

Second, fear! Oh that fear, I can only cc break like twice, get a third fear or stun etc off, im dead from that heavy nb offense.

Cloak is good, however, many players now run moves specifically to deal with cloak. Definitely great, just not the gg it use to be. Plus if things go bad a cloak can get u outta there!

Im a sorc and just thinking of what kills me. Fear is the most common word following a curse word in my pvp group lmao

New thread : "How do you defeat a Nightblade as a Sorcerer [PvP Discussion Series] " lol
I agree, NBs usually are not a problem for me until i cant break out of fear.

Cloaking through my frags is pretty annoying too.

Lol we will get to Nightblades soon.

Have you sorc's experimented with CP into elusive?

"Reduces the duration of all snare, fear and disorient effects on you by [x]%."

I think about it... sometimes... for a moment...

Then I think 16% of 3 seconds is almost .5 seconds and i think.... why waste my oh so valuable CPs for a max of .5 secs that wont save my life?

Honest question. Better to stack stam cost reduction/dodge cost reduction.

Hexys · December 2015

Activate proximity detonation, after 7 seconds of pressure, you meteor him with fear and then activate your assassins will.

TheBull · December 2015

Hope he makes a mistake and you catch his shields at half when you have an assassins and soul harvest up. If he's running ward and harness the match can literally last forever. I've seen a 38 min duel with a sorc and magicka NB before...

Derra · December 2015

If you´re a stamina NB. Shieldbreaker (though not neccessary) along with being able to read the fight. Be agressive when the sorc wants to be aggressive (apply hots prior to that) be defensive when the sorc wants to be defensive so you don´t get pressured yourself.

As a magica NB: Hope the sorc does not use harness or is really bad. Then what hexys said.

I hate harness magica on sorcs. It´s an abomination leading to all the sorc QQ.

zornyan · December 2015

That's why shield stacking needs addressing, I fought a sorc with a 32k shield yesterday on my mag templar, hardened+harness+healing at low hp.

Literially when his shields hit that high there was zero I could do, just stand there and wait to die.

Alec508 · December 2015

Minno wrote: »

After a successful thread regarding templars by a Templar seeking valuable advice, viable tactics were mentioned and I'd like to see similar discussions happen for all classes.

Without confusing people, this thread will only be about Nightblades versus sorc fights. Both group/1v1.

I think you were referring to my thread

which ended up being very constructive . Anyways after all the advice on my stamplar I decided to try my sorc out last night. My biggest advice would be

Don't use cloak if the sorc is using boundless storm it's a waste of magicka and you will be detected if you are anywhere close.

You want stay close enough to do your bursts but also keep distance so you don't get Encased

And piercing mark is a must .

Sorcs can easily kill nbs and nbs can easily kill sorcs from what I've observed. It's all about who can out play each other

Waffennacht · December 2015

Also it has a lot to do with whom sees whom first.

If you surprise attack me, Ill then have to shield or die from your next big move, thag gives you enough time to fear me, with the cc break being delayed (if I even have the stamina) you can get your next big move off. At this point ill try and hit my "oh no!" Heals, again now you can hit me to lower shield, cc immunity gone, I then get surprised attack doin that mi,i stun, fear gg if it even got that far.

If I see you first, curse to make sure you'll be decloaked if you do, frag for damage and knockdown, shattering prison to prevent mobility and stam drain, streak for decloak and mini stun, overload to try and quickly finish the job, typically works well.

However recently its been me fighting someone and a NB pwning my back when i have no resources

Morostyle · December 2015

This is how TRUE nightblades defend sorcs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhcRXs6kmms

No rly - get shieldbreaker set and destroy sorcs

thelordoffelines · December 2015

A stam nb u l2p. A magicka nb just try to cc them a lot and run them out of stam or outsustain them. Same as every other class

NeilBongStrong · December 2015

as magicka Nb, stay on their ass with fears, keep det up if you get off a fear with no shields or just a quarter life bar before det gos off use soul harvest , light attack, suprise attack.

But if they are good.. like amazing.. you can't win

Peel_Ya_Cap_517 · December 2015

Ambush + Fear + Incapacitating Strike + Shield breaker

Ezareth · December 2015

Sword and Board and 2 hander is probably your best defense against most sorcs (Although dual wield can be used instead of either).

Personally I find the NBs with the best chance of killing me use wrecking blow and dodge my attacks at the right time while keeping the pressure on. They cloak out of my degeneration which limits my healing to power surge and they end up using evasion/blur and dodge roll enough to ensure I rarely get a heal off. All the while they're constantly animation calling either WB or surprise attack.

CCing the moment their immunity is off cooldown is important as well as well as keeping shadow barrier up through fear spam or SA spam.

Having a steady offense with an excellent defense is far better than have a pure offense with no defense buid.

Shield breaker on a good player makes it easier, on a bad player is useless.

J2JMC · December 2015

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Couple of things I noticed from my 1v1s with some Sorcs on my NB.

Streak is really good GET OFF ME tool for Sorc who need a panic get out of close combat option. Obviously assuming the NB doesn't have immunity. It's a good way to wear down a NB stamina if you get a chance to use it. And I don't mean just run away at the first sight of danger. A Sorc should be using the stun off it to push the momentum of the fight in his favor. One cast, turn around and smack him with Frags if it proc'ed and get your offense back in order.

For NB out there I can't count how many time I DON'T see folks flashing Cloak....you guys... do realize you get armor and increase weapon damage from going into cloak/hidden(looking at you PS4 NA NBs) ... riiight? If the enemy isn't in CC immunity, you can press the cloak button, go hidden and smack your opponent while inside of stealth and re apply stun. That's absolutely devastating even to a Sorc. With all of the delicious buffs NB get out of cloaking, there is no reason to not be using it actively in combat.

SA gives the same buff. Also hardened and healing protect them from that stun for some stupid reason. So unless they were already cc'ed AND had shields down I wouldn't cloak stun. Of course, if they are already cc'ed it's pointless.

Morostyle wrote: »

This is how TRUE nightblades defend sorcs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhcRXs6kmms

No rly - get shieldbreaker set and destroy sorcs

Honestly, he was trying to bolt escape away. I do the same thing to sorcs who try to bolt escape. If you actually watched they threw surprise attacks when they were next to him. What most likely happened was the game registered extra button presses when the guys pressed ambush anticipating him to try and bolt away again. Needs a minimum distance requirement, but don't get mad at them for using gap closers to close a gap.

Kas · December 2015

J2JMC wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Couple of things I noticed from my 1v1s with some Sorcs on my NB.

Streak is really good GET OFF ME tool for Sorc who need a panic get out of close combat option. Obviously assuming the NB doesn't have immunity. It's a good way to wear down a NB stamina if you get a chance to use it. And I don't mean just run away at the first sight of danger. A Sorc should be using the stun off it to push the momentum of the fight in his favor. One cast, turn around and smack him with Frags if it proc'ed and get your offense back in order.

For NB out there I can't count how many time I DON'T see folks flashing Cloak....you guys... do realize you get armor and increase weapon damage from going into cloak/hidden(looking at you PS4 NA NBs) ... riiight? If the enemy isn't in CC immunity, you can press the cloak button, go hidden and smack your opponent while inside of stealth and re apply stun. That's absolutely devastating even to a Sorc. With all of the delicious buffs NB get out of cloaking, there is no reason to not be using it actively in combat.

SA gives the same buff. Also hardened and healing protect them from that stun for some stupid reason. So unless they were already cc'ed AND had shields down I wouldn't cloak stun. Of course, if they are already cc'ed it's pointless.

Morostyle wrote: »

This is how TRUE nightblades defend sorcs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhcRXs6kmms

No rly - get shieldbreaker set and destroy sorcs

Honestly, he was trying to bolt escape away. I do the same thing to sorcs who try to bolt escape. If you actually watched they threw surprise attacks when they were next to him. What most likely happened was the game registered extra button presses when the guys pressed ambush anticipating him to try and bolt away again. Needs a minimum distance requirement, but don't get mad at them for using gap closers to close a gap.

imho, the NB isn't to blame. the current state of the game is. the nb is just doing the effective thing. imho it's obvious though that this kind of skill-spam is not how a great game should be.
that being said, I don't see much of the attempted surpirse attaclk, anticipated blinks, whatever. i'd say the NB is spamm ambush because it works

DannyLV702 · December 2015

Pressure. Fear and add all the pressure you can. The ones that hit-and-cloak usually die against me

Ezareth · December 2015

J2JMC wrote: »

Also hardened and healing protect them from that stun for some stupid reason. So unless they were already cc'ed AND had shields down I wouldn't cloak stun. Of course, if they are already cc'ed it's pointless.

Hardened and Healing Ward do not protect from Stuns, they are either using unstoppable or are CC immune if you're seeing this.

First thing I do when I fight a nightblade is pop a Detect/Immovable/Magicka pot.

Minno · December 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

J2JMC wrote: »

Also hardened and healing protect them from that stun for some stupid reason. So unless they were already cc'ed AND had shields down I wouldn't cloak stun. Of course, if they are already cc'ed it's pointless.

Hardened and Healing Ward do not protect from Stuns, they are either using unstoppable or are CC immune if you're seeing this.

First thing I do when I fight a nightblade is pop a Detect/Immovable/Magicka pot.

KenaPKK · December 2015

Popping that pot againt a good nightblade will get you killed before your next pot comes available.

Ezareth · December 2015

KenaPKK wrote: »

Popping that pot againt a good nightblade will get you killed before your next pot comes available.

I don't pop them against Stamina NBs if they have a decent rank or I know them, I save my Tri-stats for those ones. Against a Mageblade such as your build I do however and I haven't had one last through the detection cooldown long enough to teach me otherwise.

Magicka NBs lack the dodge roll stalling time that a stamina blade has and healing ward spam will kill you every time. If they're running S&B with defensive posture like I am I likely wouldn't use it since I probably couldn't burst down a NB using defensive posture but I've only ever seen on NB using that as a Magicka recently.

It is 100% Impossible to kill a good mageblade solo without detect pots since they (currently) can just cloak away if they run low in resources.